Unfortunately the Manaless Dredge thread seems to be largely ignored so I'm going to post my question here for you Spooky.
I've read the primers and a ton of articles plus watched some match videos. I took the deck exactly as shown in your article and took it to my LGS (4 rounds only) which was the first time I'd played against people having only goldfished up until then. I did 2-2 and potentially could have been 3-1 if I didn't make a silly mistake. That being said, the worst match I had was against a guy who sided in Tormod's Crypt and I realized I have no good idea how to fight that.
The only thing I can think of is to slow dredge and try to bring back Ichorid's to put pressure on him to use the Crypt while keeping my hand full so I can discard another dredger to get going again. I'm trying to think of free to cast sideboard options but haven't come up with any yet.
Perhaps our only recourse for good sidebaord answers to build it with Dryad Arbor as I've seen in some lists?
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| U Merfolk | UR Delver Burn| B Reanimator| B Landless Dredge |
Unfortunately the Manaless Dredge thread seems to be largely ignored so I'm going to post my question here for you Spooky.
I've read the primers and a ton of articles plus watched some match videos. I took the deck exactly as shown in your article and took it to my LGS (4 rounds only) which was the first time I'd played against people having only goldfished up until then. I did 2-2 and potentially could have been 3-1 if I didn't make a silly mistake. That being said, the worst match I had was against a guy who sided in Tormod's Crypt and I realized I have no good idea how to fight that.
The only thing I can think of is to slow dredge and try to bring back Ichorid's to put pressure on him to use the Crypt while keeping my hand full so I can discard another dredger to get going again. I'm trying to think of free to cast sideboard options but haven't come up with any yet.
Perhaps our only recourse for good sidebaord answers to build it with Dryad Arbor as I've seen in some lists?
Congrats on the finish. If that was your first tournament with the deck then you should be pretty proud of yourself.
As far as fighting against crypt and similar cards goes, you have the right idea. You need to slow dredge and put on pressure, forcing them to pop it. Afterwords you try and refill your graveyard. Manaless dredge is known to be much stronger in this strategy than traditional and LED based dredge. Really, you just need to practice the situation to get a feel for it. I can tell you that people keep extra ichorids in their board a lot to help in these situations. I've seen dryad arbor as well.
Thanks. I don't think it was a bad first time out with the deck but I'm not going to pat myself on the back yet. To be honest one of my wins was because my opponent dropped after the round was posted.
I'm agonizing over the sideboard. I know it's meta specific but it seems we have little in the way of sideboard choices unless we run mana sources of some sort. My board is pretty much made up of dread return targets with different ETBF effects.
What turn do you usually see as your critical turn? It seems that on average in my goldfishing session I can go off turn 3 or 4. With a very occasional turn 2.
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| U Merfolk | UR Delver Burn| B Reanimator| B Landless Dredge |
The critical turn for the deck is turn 3. Things need to be going right for you at that point or (depending on the match up of course) you may not be able to dredge your way out in time. What's great about this deck is that 3 turns of dredging gives you a pretty high chance of hitting your spy.
Everything that I highlighted in the article is what I would suggest for a sideboard. Beyond those, not sure what else I could suggest.
So, I was looking at The Pitch and just thought it would be hilarious to pull out against my friends for at least one match. We play casual and I was just wondering if there was a way to make the deck REALLY budget. As in what could I replace Progenitus and other expensive cards with that would still make the deck viable? Right now I got Nicol Bolas and Prince of Thralls as possible ideas. Ay ideas on what I could replace Misdirection with? Or is that an absolutely necessary card?
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Haven't played anything but EDH and casual for over a year
Misdirection just gives the deck some kind of protection against real decks that would try to stop it. If you are not too afraid of counter magic then go ahead and get rid of it.
Your best options are the elder dragons from the legends sets as far as expensive cards go. Prince of Thralls is fine. Karona, False God is your best 5 color option. maybe Din of the Fireherd?
Thank you for the prompt response. Just wanted to get an opinion from someone with more experience because I can't do these tests on cockatrice nowadays.
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Haven't played anything but EDH and casual for over a year
Thank you for the prompt response. Just wanted to get an opinion from someone with more experience because I can't do these tests on cockatrice nowadays.
My pleasure! Good luck with the deck, hope your friends enjoy it!
Your article seems thorough but you don't really address what happens when you draw combo pieces in this deck. If you just so happen to draw, say, an Angel of Glory's Rise, Laboratory Maniac and/or Azami, Lady of Scrolls, you would have to scoop if you had no out to discard them.
I was gonna suggest 3 nacromoeba and 2 bridges, but then I realized it doesn't matter.
Cabal Therapy is the normal answer to this problem. I also see people play a 1-of Phantasmagorian from time to time, which I have no qualms about really.
As an aside, that one does run Tinder Wall (but also the moxes). Good job spooky though, it's always a pleasure reading your articles (and I'm still waiting for the next one :P)!
In legacy format, lands are generally not very useful... there are Force of Will, Simian Spirit Guide and anothers cards that are very useful to fast game.
The very first turn you take will basically be you drawing your card for the turn and then passing. This allows you to discard a card off of the maximum hand size rule. You want to discard either a card with dredge, or a Phantasmagorian, who can get dredgers into your graveyard. From there, you dredge every single draw phase instead of drawing. Narcomoebas will come into play off of your dredges, and other creatures (like Ichorid) can be brought in to play through their abilities. Cabal Therapy and Dread Return can be cast from the graveyard through their flashback cost, and will arrive there through dredging. If at any point in the game you can cast a dread return from your graveyard to bring back a Balustrade Spy your entire deck will be moved to your graveyard as a result of his comes into play ability. This will result in many creatures coming into play through narcomoeba, resurrection abilities, and Bridge from Below. From here, you kill by dread returning Flayer of the Hatebound and a Golgari Grave-Troll after that.
thank goodness that your statement holds true
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
I've read the primers and a ton of articles plus watched some match videos. I took the deck exactly as shown in your article and took it to my LGS (4 rounds only) which was the first time I'd played against people having only goldfished up until then. I did 2-2 and potentially could have been 3-1 if I didn't make a silly mistake. That being said, the worst match I had was against a guy who sided in Tormod's Crypt and I realized I have no good idea how to fight that.
The only thing I can think of is to slow dredge and try to bring back Ichorid's to put pressure on him to use the Crypt while keeping my hand full so I can discard another dredger to get going again. I'm trying to think of free to cast sideboard options but haven't come up with any yet.
Perhaps our only recourse for good sidebaord answers to build it with Dryad Arbor as I've seen in some lists?
| U Merfolk | UR Delver Burn| B Reanimator| B Landless Dredge |
Congrats on the finish. If that was your first tournament with the deck then you should be pretty proud of yourself.
As far as fighting against crypt and similar cards goes, you have the right idea. You need to slow dredge and put on pressure, forcing them to pop it. Afterwords you try and refill your graveyard. Manaless dredge is known to be much stronger in this strategy than traditional and LED based dredge. Really, you just need to practice the situation to get a feel for it. I can tell you that people keep extra ichorids in their board a lot to help in these situations. I've seen dryad arbor as well.
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I'm agonizing over the sideboard. I know it's meta specific but it seems we have little in the way of sideboard choices unless we run mana sources of some sort. My board is pretty much made up of dread return targets with different ETBF effects.
What turn do you usually see as your critical turn? It seems that on average in my goldfishing session I can go off turn 3 or 4. With a very occasional turn 2.
| U Merfolk | UR Delver Burn| B Reanimator| B Landless Dredge |
Everything that I highlighted in the article is what I would suggest for a sideboard. Beyond those, not sure what else I could suggest.
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| U Merfolk | UR Delver Burn| B Reanimator| B Landless Dredge |
My pleasure! Good luck with the deck and good luck in your next tournament!
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Your best options are the elder dragons from the legends sets as far as expensive cards go. Prince of Thralls is fine. Karona, False God is your best 5 color option. maybe Din of the Fireherd?
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My pleasure! Good luck with the deck, hope your friends enjoy it!
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Well you could always cabal therapy yourself...
I was gonna suggest 3 nacromoeba and 2 bridges, but then I realized it doesn't matter.
Modern Patagia Viper Combo
pfiremc13 on the source
Inkfathom Biomage on Undisclosed Magic Software
I should stop making so many different names for myself.
Cabal Therapy is the normal answer to this problem. I also see people play a 1-of Phantasmagorian from time to time, which I have no qualms about really.
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http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7714&d=244372&f=LE
As an aside, that one does run Tinder Wall (but also the moxes). Good job spooky though, it's always a pleasure reading your articles (and I'm still waiting for the next one :P)!
These videos might help you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXUbjMVh8Wg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwXgsMVuPPY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O06VFpYH8I
Did this help at all?
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