Were the man's rights to religious freedom violated? He didn't want to wear 666. The manager that day decided to be a dick and make him wear it, and he refused. He got 3 day suspension and fired.
If the details are correct (and they may not be), seems like an interesting case.
I know it was one really awful P.R. move by that manager, and the manager should certainly be fired for creating a tremendous financial problem for the company, when a little bit of tact and common sense would make the problem unnecessary.
Billy E. Hyatt claims he was fired from Pliant Corp., a plastics factory in northern Georgia near Dalton, after he refused to wear a sticker proclaiming that his factory had been accident-free for 666 days. That number is considered the "mark of the beast" in the Bible's Book of Revelation describing the apocalypse.
Hyatt, who said he's a devout Christian, had worked for the north Georgia plastics company since June 2007 and like other employees wore stickers each day that proclaimed how long the factory had gone without an accident.
But he grew nervous in early 2009 as the number of accident-free days crept into the 600s. As the company's safety calendar approached day 666, Hyatt said he approached a manager and explained that wearing it would force him "to accept the mark of the beast and to be condemned to hell." He said the manager assured him he wouldn't have to wear the number.
When the day came on March 12, 2009, Hyatt sought a manager to discuss his request. He said he was told that his beliefs were "ridiculous" and that he should wear the sticker or serve a three-day suspension.
Hyatt took the three-day suspension, and was fired at a human resources meeting several days later. He then filed a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and his attorney Stephen Mixon said the agency granted him the right to sue the company in August.
The lawsuit, which seeks punitive damages and back pay, said the company forced him into a terrible situation: Keep his job or "abandon his religious beliefs."
I think the fact that he was told that he wouldn't have to wear it is what gives him a case here. If it was part of the uniform, than he knew since the beginning that it would be a possibility and yet took the job.
Though I still think they shouldn't have fired him after the suspension.
Though I still think they shouldn't have fired him after the suspension.
Yea, I agree. As misguided as he was with his refusal to wear the badge, it's hardly a fireable offense giving that he had an actual reason not to wear it -- he wasn't just being a dick and refusing to cooperate.
Although there could be more to the story and this incident was just the "straw that broke the camels back"
Although there could be more to the story and this incident was just the "straw that broke the camels back"
Yeah, while it's complete speculation, I suspect that the sort of personality who'd object so strenuously to wearing the number 666 on a silly workplace badge probably causes friction in other circumstances as well.
That said, he definitely has a legal case here.
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Yeah, while it's complete speculation, I suspect that the sort of personality who'd object so strenuously to wearing the number 666 on a silly workplace badge probably causes friction in other circumstances as well.
That said, he definitely has a legal case here.
What makes this even more silly is that all of this only mattered for a single day. The next day the number would have been 667. Either the manager was a complete idiot or the employee really pissed people off previously.
If wearing it is a part of the job requirements, and you refuse to wear it, you aren't fulfilling your role and can be fired. If it is against my religion to handle pork, I don't get to complain if I work at a pig farm.
If wearing it is a part of the job requirements, and you refuse to wear it, you aren't fulfilling your role and can be fired. If it is against my religion to handle pork, I don't get to complain if I work at a pig farm.
Sure... but if you work in tire manufacturing plant, and as part of team building, they all eat corn dogs together, I don't think you suspend the Jewish guy for abstaining.
This was about a team morale inspiring program for safety at a PLASTICS company, where the employees stuck little decals with the number of accident free days on their uniform.
Is it really necessary to the JOB for him to wear 666? They could have just let him wear the 665 sticker from the day before, and then jump to 667. Problem solved.
It was a little STICKER.
Give him PTO if it matters that much to the management to have everybody in a 666 sticker at the same time.
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He should have just caused an accident on day 665. Crisis averted.
Yeah, that would work too.
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I think both parties acted ridiculously. It's ridiculous for him to object to wearing the sticker that obviously was not a religious statement and it's ridiculous for the company to fire him for refusing to do so.
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I think both parties acted ridiculously. It's ridiculous for him to object to wearing the sticker that obviously was not a religious statement and it's ridiculous for the company to fire him for refusing to do so.
Actually wearing the number 666 (the sign of the beast) is a matter of huge religious significance to those who are hard core Christians. I'm sure he'd put it on if he HAD to to save lives, or protect his skin getting through a fire, in a matter of life or death.
But his simple refusal to wear it under these circumstances, is no more ridiculous than a Jew refusing to wear a ****ing swastika.
Actually wearing the number 666 (the sign of the beast) is a matter of huge religious significance to those who are hard core Christians. I'm sure he'd put it on if he HAD to to save lives, or protect his skin getting through a fire, in a matter of life or death.
But his simple refusal to wear it under these circumstances, is no more ridiculous than a Jew refusing to wear a ****ing swastika.
Except a swastika has one meaning (yes, I know that it's origins aren't Nazi, but it's realistically only used as such anymore). A number is a number. If his boss was asking him to wear it to show support for the Devil, that's one thing, but simply as the next number in a count, yeah, I think it's ridiculous to refuse to wear it, and quite different from refusing to wear a symbol of hatred.
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He should have just caused an accident on day 665. Crisis averted.
If it meant so much to him, why not take a vacation/sick day on day 666. Or "accidentally" apply the sticker upside-down (nothing wrong with 999, right?)?
I don't think he deserved to lose his job, but there were so many ways to avoid the situation that it doesn't make any sense from either perspective.
Maybe I'm just biased against superstitions. For instance, I've often wondered if North American culture will ever reach a point where 13th floors are correctly labeled in buildings.
Sure... but if you work in tire manufacturing plant, and as part of team building, they all eat corn dogs together, I don't think you suspend the Jewish guy for abstaining.
I thought this was some kind of identification number. That's what I get for not reading it.
Yeah, this is stupid and there is no reason to have to wear this. However, I do question if people would say the same thing about refusing to adhere to a dress code.
For instance, if my religion is against wearing ties, can I sue if my employer fires me for not wearing the required suit and tie? If not, what makes it any different from this case?
Why would an employer choose to have the employees wear #666? why not #500 or #32. To me it feels like the manager's did it just to see what reactions they would get. When someone says 666 i don't think of anything besides the "mark of the beast".
I hope he wins and gets paid pretty damn good he deserves it.
But this is only HIS version he could've been a total jerk.
The fact that the EEOC is allowing him to sue tells you everything that you need to know. It is so rare that a case comes along where you actually have legitimate cause to sue for wrongful termination that, if you do get permission, you typically win.
And this case is pretty cut and dry. Especially since he already had assurances from another manager.
People saying 'he should have thought of that when he took the job' are being hopelessly obtuse. He may not have even known about the sticker. It's disconcerting how much people think that a company can just do whatever they want to you, just because you work for them. Everyone still has rights.
Actually wearing the number 666 (the sign of the beast) is a matter of huge religious significance to those who are hard core Christians. I'm sure he'd put it on if he HAD to to save lives, or protect his skin getting through a fire, in a matter of life or death.
Actually, since the story said that he believes wearing such a symbol would condemn him to hell, the correct thing to do in those circumstances is to die or let the others die.
I don't think he should have been fired. Is refusing to adhere to a dress code a fireable offense? Heck, it's enough to get you arrested if you refuse to adhere to a judge's dress code.
It was a sticker that stated how many days the plant had gone without an accident. All the employees wore the same number.
I know that and you made my point. If you want to show people that "weve been 666 days of accident free" why pick such an odd number especially one that is of such great importance to religions. were not talking about 3 wise men. All they did was open up the company to get sued.
And if the EEOC said "go ahead" he'll win for sure.
I know that and you made my point. If you want to show people that "weve been 666 days of accident free" why pick such an odd number especially one that is of such great importance to religions.
Because it was in fact the number of days since the last accident?
I'm not sure you grasp how these "accident free" things work. It's a counter that goes up from day to day. So for any natural number, eventually it's going to hit it. Unless there's an accident, of course.
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I know that and you made my point. If you want to show people that "weve been 666 days of accident free" why pick such an odd number especially one that is of such great importance to religions. were not talking about 3 wise men. All they did was open up the company to get sued.
Well, the previous day the sticker was 665. The day after it was 667. I don't think they chose 666 for any religious purposes. I guess maybe they could have printed stickers that said "665 + 1".
If the guy who refused was a public spokesman for the company, I can understand this... but it is ridiculous to fire someone over a sticker. First of all, it is of huge significance to the man's religion, regardless of whether or not you think it superstition. Does wearing the sticker affect his job performance? If not, there was no reason to fire him.
Except a swastika has one meaning (yes, I know that it's origins aren't Nazi, but it's realistically only used as such anymore).
A swastika has it's own meaning. Just because the MANY of us have an extremely negative association with it (which is why I object to its use and why I would say its ludicrous to force a man to wear one), doesn't mean that it lost its other meanings:
The swastika (Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक) is an equilateralcross with its arms bent at right angles, in either right-facing (卐) form in counter clock motion or its mirrored left-facing (卍) form in clock motion. Swastikas have also been used in other various ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, primarily as a tantric symbol to evoke 'shakti' or the sacred symbol of good luck. The swastika is also a Chinese character used in East Asia representing eternity and Buddhism.
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A number is a number.
And a swastika is just a Chinese character, or a sanskrit character. That is ASSOCIATED with an extremely negative connotation for Jewish people.
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If his boss was asking him to wear it to show support for the Devil, that's one thing, but simply as the next number in a count, yeah, I think it's ridiculous to refuse to wear it, and quite different from refusing to wear a symbol of hatred.
It's a symbol of the ANTICHRIST in his religion. It is the symbol that repressents the apocalypse, and all the evil in the world. Being LABELED with 666, the mark of the antichrist.
Interpreting the identity and the number of the Beast falls into three categories:[1]
Using gematria to calculate the number of a world leader’s name, in order to match it with the number of the Beast.
Associating the number of the Beast as the duration of the beast’s reign, in order to compare the length of reign to an entity, such as: a heathen state, Islam, or the Papacy.
Corresponding symbolism for the Antichrist and antichristian power.
"The number of the Beast is 666" by William Blake. (yeah, I know, freaky, reminds you of the RED DRAGON drawing by Blake, doesn't it?)
Its not like the symbology isn't widely known to non-Christians either, in popular culture. It is well known as the symbol of the ANTICHRIST:
Obviously a 666 or a 卐 is incapable of doing physical harm to an evangelical Christian or a Jew, respectively. They're just little scribbles.
But its extremely reasonable a Jewish person to reject wearing a swastika, or a Christian to reject wearing a 666, especially when its just for one day on some stupid propaganda program.
I just don't see the equivalency between a symbol like the swastika and a number. Sorry. As I said, I think it's ridiculous that he was fired for refusing to wear it, and I think he absolutely should have the right to refuse to wear it. That doesn't mean I can't find it silly. I think many things that religious and/or superstitious people do are silly, but they have every right to do those things.
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Because it was in fact the number of days since the last accident?
I'm not sure you grasp how these "accident free" things work. It's a counter that goes up from day to day. So for any natural number, eventually it's going to hit it. Unless there's an accident, of course.
Well, the previous day the sticker was 665. The day after it was 667. I don't think they chose 666 for any religious purposes. I guess maybe they could have printed stickers that said "665 + 1".
So they wore it EVERY SINGLE DAY?? I don't remember reading that, but please correct me if im wrong.
I took it as they chose that # and that # only to wear. Because making stickers for every single day of work seems a bit costly for a company.
Yes, the story said they did them every day. You don't have to print out one for every possible number, just a template that lets you put a number on it each day with a marker or pen. Still seems more expensive then it is worth, but businesses do that all the timel
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How did it come to this?
Were the man's rights to religious freedom violated? He didn't want to wear 666. The manager that day decided to be a dick and make him wear it, and he refused. He got 3 day suspension and fired.
If the details are correct (and they may not be), seems like an interesting case.
I know it was one really awful P.R. move by that manager, and the manager should certainly be fired for creating a tremendous financial problem for the company, when a little bit of tact and common sense would make the problem unnecessary.
Though I still think they shouldn't have fired him after the suspension.
Yea, I agree. As misguided as he was with his refusal to wear the badge, it's hardly a fireable offense giving that he had an actual reason not to wear it -- he wasn't just being a dick and refusing to cooperate.
Although there could be more to the story and this incident was just the "straw that broke the camels back"
Yeah, while it's complete speculation, I suspect that the sort of personality who'd object so strenuously to wearing the number 666 on a silly workplace badge probably causes friction in other circumstances as well.
That said, he definitely has a legal case here.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
What makes this even more silly is that all of this only mattered for a single day. The next day the number would have been 667. Either the manager was a complete idiot or the employee really pissed people off previously.
This was about a team morale inspiring program for safety at a PLASTICS company, where the employees stuck little decals with the number of accident free days on their uniform.
Is it really necessary to the JOB for him to wear 666? They could have just let him wear the 665 sticker from the day before, and then jump to 667. Problem solved.
It was a little STICKER.
Give him PTO if it matters that much to the management to have everybody in a 666 sticker at the same time.
Yeah, that would work too.
I'm liking your style this week. Mischievous aren't we?
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But his simple refusal to wear it under these circumstances, is no more ridiculous than a Jew refusing to wear a ****ing swastika.
Except a swastika has one meaning (yes, I know that it's origins aren't Nazi, but it's realistically only used as such anymore). A number is a number. If his boss was asking him to wear it to show support for the Devil, that's one thing, but simply as the next number in a count, yeah, I think it's ridiculous to refuse to wear it, and quite different from refusing to wear a symbol of hatred.
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If it meant so much to him, why not take a vacation/sick day on day 666. Or "accidentally" apply the sticker upside-down (nothing wrong with 999, right?)?
I don't think he deserved to lose his job, but there were so many ways to avoid the situation that it doesn't make any sense from either perspective.
Maybe I'm just biased against superstitions. For instance, I've often wondered if North American culture will ever reach a point where 13th floors are correctly labeled in buildings.
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Yeah, this is stupid and there is no reason to have to wear this. However, I do question if people would say the same thing about refusing to adhere to a dress code.
For instance, if my religion is against wearing ties, can I sue if my employer fires me for not wearing the required suit and tie? If not, what makes it any different from this case?
I hope he wins and gets paid pretty damn good he deserves it.
But this is only HIS version he could've been a total jerk.
It was a sticker that stated how many days the plant had gone without an accident. All the employees wore the same number.
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And this case is pretty cut and dry. Especially since he already had assurances from another manager.
People saying 'he should have thought of that when he took the job' are being hopelessly obtuse. He may not have even known about the sticker. It's disconcerting how much people think that a company can just do whatever they want to you, just because you work for them. Everyone still has rights.
I don't think he should have been fired. Is refusing to adhere to a dress code a fireable offense? Heck, it's enough to get you arrested if you refuse to adhere to a judge's dress code.
I know that and you made my point. If you want to show people that "weve been 666 days of accident free" why pick such an odd number especially one that is of such great importance to religions. were not talking about 3 wise men. All they did was open up the company to get sued.
And if the EEOC said "go ahead" he'll win for sure.
Because it was in fact the number of days since the last accident?
I'm not sure you grasp how these "accident free" things work. It's a counter that goes up from day to day. So for any natural number, eventually it's going to hit it. Unless there's an accident, of course.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Well, the previous day the sticker was 665. The day after it was 667. I don't think they chose 666 for any religious purposes. I guess maybe they could have printed stickers that said "665 + 1".
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If the guy who refused was a public spokesman for the company, I can understand this... but it is ridiculous to fire someone over a sticker. First of all, it is of huge significance to the man's religion, regardless of whether or not you think it superstition. Does wearing the sticker affect his job performance? If not, there was no reason to fire him.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
And a swastika is just a Chinese character, or a sanskrit character. That is ASSOCIATED with an extremely negative connotation for Jewish people.
It's a symbol of the ANTICHRIST in his religion. It is the symbol that repressents the apocalypse, and all the evil in the world. Being LABELED with 666, the mark of the antichrist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast
"The number of the Beast is 666" by William Blake. (yeah, I know, freaky, reminds you of the RED DRAGON drawing by Blake, doesn't it?)
Its not like the symbology isn't widely known to non-Christians either, in popular culture. It is well known as the symbol of the ANTICHRIST:
Obviously a 666 or a 卐 is incapable of doing physical harm to an evangelical Christian or a Jew, respectively. They're just little scribbles.
But its extremely reasonable a Jewish person to reject wearing a swastika, or a Christian to reject wearing a 666, especially when its just for one day on some stupid propaganda program.
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I know how they work thank you.
So they wore it EVERY SINGLE DAY?? I don't remember reading that, but please correct me if im wrong.
I took it as they chose that # and that # only to wear. Because making stickers for every single day of work seems a bit costly for a company.