So, a couple of months ago the company I work at hired a new employee. The office manager took her around the office to meet everyone, and I fell head over heels for her the moment we met. I honestly did not believe in "love at first sight" prior to this; now I do.
After talking with her for a while and spending a lot of time together at the office, I can say that we have enough in common for me to become even more attracted to her, and yet enough differences for me to know that things may not work out if sparks ever do fly. In any case, I'd really like to spend time with her OUTSIDE the office, but I'm having a hard time with this for a couple of reasons.
First of all, I am an incredibly private person. Intensely so. I rarely, if ever, say anything about my feelings or thoughts to even my family members. I really have no interest in talking about myself to anyone that I know in person. Whether this is due to a fear of rejection or w.e., I don't know. I just know that I'm don't want people who know me in person to know all that much personal detail about myself.
In spite of this, I'm am generally comfortable with talking to people (including women!) about things that do not involve me personally. I'm comfortable with talking to people in general. The problem is about making any connection with others beyond a superficial "friendly acquaintance" level. I have a lot of acquaintances. I am friendly with most, if not all, of them.
But I do not have anyone that I consider a friend. There have been people who are friendly enough to extend a hand to me in friendship; I reject them. I'm quite comfortable living without friends. I enjoy eating out at restaurants and going to the theater alone. If anything, having people around generally make those experiences less enjoyable to me.
Now, all this emotional isolation has left me completely clueless as to how to emotionally engage my office-mate and actually ask her out. She talks a lot. A LOT. She talks about everything that crosses her mind, and frequently talks about things that would ordinarily be considered very personal (though, of course, I have to consider the possibility that my perspective of "personal" is completely and utterly out of whack, and it's possible that she considers me a friend and is willing to reveal a lot of things to me). In spite of this, I have revealed virtually nothing to her. She knows very little about me, and I'm quite lost as to how to talk about myself without feeling weird about it. Even more troublesome is that I sort of lose myself when I'm talking to her and don't even know what to say half the time. I suspect that this is a combination of me knowing that we really ought to go back to work (it's probably past lunch-break), and the fact that I'm just content being with her. I want to say something, but I'm not sure what to say and I really know I should go back to work. I find it increasingly harder to go back to work after talking with her, and so find this entire situation increasingly maddening.
So, the obvious choice is to just ask her out and go talk with her someplace else. But how? I don't know. This is the only the second time I've actually been attracted enough by a woman to want to ask her out. The first time was in high school and I was too much of a wimp to go through with it for years. I eventually did, but that wasn't a good time and so I got shot down.
The problem with asking her out is that she doesn't do a lot of what most people do. She doesn't drink or have any of the common vices, and she is quite selective in what she eats. As such, asking her out to dinner or some such becomes difficult. And I'm such a ridiculous person that I don't even know where to ask her out.
=( In all honesty this entire situation just pisses me off.
Well, the first step is making this less big of a deal than you're currently thinking it is. Don't think of asking someone out as the gateway to happiness like a lot of nerdy guys do. It's just getting to know someone better. That's all it is. There is nothing riding on this but dinner, no amount of preparation or saying just the right thing will make her interested if she isn't already interested. Nothing you say is going to magically make her attracted to you, and unless you're an absolute ass on the date it's doubtful that she'll think less of you. And, by your own admission, you've really got nothing to lose if she's not interested.
Get more practice. You've mentioned you have plenty of friendly acquaintances but no friends, mostly because of your own doing. That's a problem, but probably not for the reason you think it is. If you don't have a lot of friends, you don't get a lot of practice being in a relationship with someone (even a platonic one). The most important factor in a successful relationship is that you're friends with your significant other. If you don't engage people on a regular basis, you're obviously going to be bad at it now. So, get more practice. While you're reminding yourself that a date with the woman you're interested in should be fun and not a source of stress.
Also, make sure this is worthwhile for you. Office romance can get really complicated, and it can make things really awkward if a relationship ends badly. Make sure you're actually interested in this woman in particular and not just because she's a woman who is friendly with you. People's thresholds for 'personal' vary pretty widely, and you may be misinterpreting her opening up to someone completely unrelated to the rest of her life. Sometimes it's easier to open up to a coworker because everyone in your personal life is involved somehow. I don't know if this is true of your situation in particular, but is it just you she's open with or is she open with everyone?
As for asking her out, don't overthink it. Start with something simple. Ask her where she likes to go to eat, what her favorite dishes are. Share yours. Go from there, maybe suggest that the two of you go eat at one of those places sometime, and see how she reacts.
Also, make sure this is worthwhile for you. Office romance can get really complicated, and it can make things really awkward if a relationship ends badly. Make sure you're actually interested in this woman in particular and not just because she's a woman who is friendly with you. People's thresholds for 'personal' vary pretty widely, and you may be misinterpreting her opening up to someone completely unrelated to the rest of her life. Sometimes it's easier to open up to a coworker because everyone in your personal life is involved somehow. I don't know if this is true of your situation in particular, but is it just you she's open with or is she open with everyone?
Ah, I should have clarified. I'm pretty darned sure she isn't interested in me in any romantic way right now. What simply confused me is that she talks about a whole bunch of personal information that I've rarely ever heard anyone, save some certain people who are clearly attention-starved, give out.
Maybe she's attention-starved?
The way I see it, we're about the only two people at the company of similar age who have similar background.
In any case, if I were to redo this thread, I would have focused more on this-
Get more practice. You've mentioned you have plenty of friendly acquaintances but no friends, mostly because of your own doing. That's a problem, but probably not for the reason you think it is. If you don't have a lot of friends, you don't get a lot of practice being in a relationship with someone (even a platonic one). The most important factor in a successful relationship is that you're friends with your significant other. If you don't engage people on a regular basis, you're obviously going to be bad at it now. So, get more practice.
You're right. I have no real practice with being in a platonic relationship with someone. As such, I'm lost. I really have no idea where to even begin. How do I do anything that starts such a friendship without looking creepy?
You're right. I have no real practice with being in a platonic relationship with someone. As such, I'm lost. I really have no idea where to even begin. How do I do anything that starts such a friendship without looking creepy?
If you're talking this coworker you are interested in, see if she wants to grab lunch during your lunch break? Nothing serious, just say you don't want to have to eat what you brought for lunch, and ask if there is somewhere she likes nearby? If she says no, just shrug and go get your own food.
I think the biggest key is to remind yourself to stop thinking ten steps ahead. You mention you've had people who've wanted to be friends with you in the past, and you've got plenty of friendly acquaintances. Maybe just pursue that a little more? If you haven't gone to see the Martian yet, which looks freaking amazing (I loved the book), maybe ask one of these friendly acquaintances if they have any plans to see it, and invite them to go see it with you?
Also, remember rejection isn't indicative of anything wrong with you, it's just incompatibility. If someone isn't interested in being your friend or being in a relationship with you, it just means you wouldn't have worked out anyway.
As for the whole creepy thing, things are only are weird as you make them. Reign it back and don't let it come across as a big deal. Because it shouldn't be -it's just hanging out.
Ah, I should have clarified. I'm pretty darned sure she isn't interested in me in any romantic way right now. What simply confused me is that she talks about a whole bunch of personal information that I've rarely ever heard anyone, save some certain people who are clearly attention-starved, give out.
Maybe she's attention-starved?
The way I see it, we're about the only two people at the company of similar age who have similar background.
I was working at this place for a good two months before this new hire came in. She was older, had two kids, and divorced. All well and good, whatever. She worked, did her job well, and was liked by the customers.... but had one major problem; she kept crying about how was "was never going to have sex again".
Kind of an odd thing to throw out there. It went on for six months or so; she would randomly blurt out something along the lines of "I'm never going to have sex again", we would ignore her, two people would comment about a customer's shapeliness and she would say "Why can't people talk about me that way?", the weekend would come around with plans of drinking/visiting girlfriends and she would just sit there and sigh.
Then this dumbass in the apartment decides he's going to see if she wants to actually do something about it. Next I know he gets fired (Understandably), she's screaming "Woe is me, why would he think I would want to do something like that", and my managers (Which is a massive breach in protocol, mind) that this is the third time she's done something like this; gotten someone fired for sexually harassing her while sexually harassing everyone else.
Unfortunately that dumbass was a really well liked guy in the department, and while no one retaliated, it just wasn't the same. About a month later, my Assistant Manager moved to a different department, my Manager moved to a different store, we had an entirely new workforce and the new manager was as incompetent as he was pompous. I ended up leaving three weeks after he signed up.
I know it's not what you want to hear; but if she's "giving out information that seems odd", just leave her alone. It's not worth the trouble.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I'm universally bad at this kind of thing. But perhaps I can make some suggestions which have helped me.
First of all, I notice that your post is filled with assumptions. For example, you said you don't know how to talk about yourself. So I'm hypothesizing one of your implicit assumptions is that if she talks about herself personally, you should respond in kind with talking about yourself. That's not necessarily true, so I wouldn't berate yourself that you should have to reveal the personal details of your life as well. If it comes, let it come naturally.
The women I've been most attracted to have been my total opposite. Sometimes those kinds of girls find a guy who doesn't speak much to be mysterious and interesting.
Secondly Jay13x focuses a lot on the girl not being interested as a possibility. In fact that appears a few times in the answers below. I will say the exact thing another way. Don't assume necessarily that its on you to make this work--that you have it in your ability to say the right things, and act out in such a way to make her really like you. That's a faulty assumption. Guys have this conception of "game" If you say the right things, do the right things, you can make any girl fall for you. At best there are some techniques you can apply that will help you with people in general. But for any particular girl don't sweat it. If it turns out she doesn't like you, it's not a fault of your shortcomings, miscalculations, or playing your cards wrong.
So the first two words of advice have been about moving your framework of the situation a little bit out of how you initially structured it in your mind.
The last and third piece of advice which has been helpful for me, is to avoid social awkwardness.
It's kind of funny. Though it sounds simple, it never really clicked for me on how to do it until I heard the same advice another way:
do what you can do put her at ease and make her feel comfortable.
If you're talking with her, are you standing up hovering over her while she is sitting down? Pull a chair and speak to her eye to eye.
Tell a joke. if it flops, laugh at yourself. Don't be unduly serious. Avoid going into excessive detail about technical topics.
Did something happen that really embarrassed you in the middle of your hanging out? Confront it head on.
Women have an uncanny ability to discern social cues. In terms of grasping the social stratum, men in their thirties are often on the level of girls in high school. Their "toys" growing up are literally "social situations" (Tea parties with Mr. Bear, playing house, barbie and ken) They, almost universally, find confidence attractive. If you are not confident, they can sniff you out the way men can sniff out an obese girl trying to hide her fat with baggy clothes.
Simply "being confident" is too ambiguous a directive. So once again, another way of confronting the problem is to seek high value social behaviors.
Nervousness, insecurity in yourself is low value social behavior. Those who are MORE confident, those with standing if this were a group of friends, have to take care of you if you are insecure (in this hypothetical)
I'm writing that last bit to you though its a theoretical prospect and not so much practical advice, because if you are deeply analytical with a tendency to overthink, perhaps directing your considerable mental capabilities in the direction of a theoretical framework can help you find confidence in figuring out what you should do.
Ah, I should have clarified. I'm pretty darned sure she isn't interested in me in any romantic way right now. What simply confused me is that she talks about a whole bunch of personal information that I've rarely ever heard anyone, save some certain people who are clearly attention-starved, give out.
Maybe she's attention-starved?
The way I see it, we're about the only two people at the company of similar age who have similar background.
In any case, if I were to redo this thread, I would have focused more on this-
This doesn't sound like someone who is attention starved to me, at least not in the way you worded it.
It sounds more like someone who wears their heart on their sleeve. The result of that is neutral. She is neither seeking attention nor pushing people away. I'd say she's simply expressive or venting.
First of all, I notice that your post is filled with assumptions. For example, you said you don't know how to talk about yourself. So I'm hypothesizing one of your implicit assumptions is that if she talks about herself personally, you should respond in kind with talking about yourself. That's not necessarily true, so I wouldn't berate yourself that you should have to reveal the personal details of your life as well. If it comes, let it come naturally.
Well, not so much "respond in kind", but rather that I simply don't have the experience of being "open" with people.
I think another way of putting it is that I don't know how to talk about things that relate to me personally in a natural manner.
This doesn't sound like someone who is attention starved to me, at least not in the way you worded it.
It sounds more like someone who wears their heart on their sleeve. The result of that is neutral. She is neither seeking attention nor pushing people away. I'd say she's simply expressive or venting.
she talks to you a lot. which left me thinking that she likes you?
you don't have anyone you consider a friend. use this to your advantage, since you don't have any steady friend, you look mysterious, that's why she's talking to you.
now for application.
ask her out as a friend? maybe that's a good start. This style never gets old. start from there dude, and once you get out with her. show her your fun side. and enjoy.
The fact that she asked you to a social situation where you were introduced to her family means something. At this point, she is a least considering you someone she can trust enough to show to the family. If you're still wanting to ask her out, this is fantastic news! Now that you've met the family, she's aware of how you would interact with some of the people she cares about the most.
After talking with her for a while and spending a lot of time together at the office, I can say that we have enough in common for me to become even more attracted to her, and yet enough differences for me to know that things may not work out if sparks ever do fly. In any case, I'd really like to spend time with her OUTSIDE the office, but I'm having a hard time with this for a couple of reasons.
First of all, I am an incredibly private person. Intensely so. I rarely, if ever, say anything about my feelings or thoughts to even my family members. I really have no interest in talking about myself to anyone that I know in person. Whether this is due to a fear of rejection or w.e., I don't know. I just know that I'm don't want people who know me in person to know all that much personal detail about myself.
In spite of this, I'm am generally comfortable with talking to people (including women!) about things that do not involve me personally. I'm comfortable with talking to people in general. The problem is about making any connection with others beyond a superficial "friendly acquaintance" level. I have a lot of acquaintances. I am friendly with most, if not all, of them.
But I do not have anyone that I consider a friend. There have been people who are friendly enough to extend a hand to me in friendship; I reject them. I'm quite comfortable living without friends. I enjoy eating out at restaurants and going to the theater alone. If anything, having people around generally make those experiences less enjoyable to me.
Now, all this emotional isolation has left me completely clueless as to how to emotionally engage my office-mate and actually ask her out. She talks a lot. A LOT. She talks about everything that crosses her mind, and frequently talks about things that would ordinarily be considered very personal (though, of course, I have to consider the possibility that my perspective of "personal" is completely and utterly out of whack, and it's possible that she considers me a friend and is willing to reveal a lot of things to me). In spite of this, I have revealed virtually nothing to her. She knows very little about me, and I'm quite lost as to how to talk about myself without feeling weird about it. Even more troublesome is that I sort of lose myself when I'm talking to her and don't even know what to say half the time. I suspect that this is a combination of me knowing that we really ought to go back to work (it's probably past lunch-break), and the fact that I'm just content being with her. I want to say something, but I'm not sure what to say and I really know I should go back to work. I find it increasingly harder to go back to work after talking with her, and so find this entire situation increasingly maddening.
So, the obvious choice is to just ask her out and go talk with her someplace else. But how? I don't know. This is the only the second time I've actually been attracted enough by a woman to want to ask her out. The first time was in high school and I was too much of a wimp to go through with it for years. I eventually did, but that wasn't a good time and so I got shot down.
The problem with asking her out is that she doesn't do a lot of what most people do. She doesn't drink or have any of the common vices, and she is quite selective in what she eats. As such, asking her out to dinner or some such becomes difficult. And I'm such a ridiculous person that I don't even know where to ask her out.
=( In all honesty this entire situation just pisses me off.
Get more practice. You've mentioned you have plenty of friendly acquaintances but no friends, mostly because of your own doing. That's a problem, but probably not for the reason you think it is. If you don't have a lot of friends, you don't get a lot of practice being in a relationship with someone (even a platonic one). The most important factor in a successful relationship is that you're friends with your significant other. If you don't engage people on a regular basis, you're obviously going to be bad at it now. So, get more practice. While you're reminding yourself that a date with the woman you're interested in should be fun and not a source of stress.
Also, make sure this is worthwhile for you. Office romance can get really complicated, and it can make things really awkward if a relationship ends badly. Make sure you're actually interested in this woman in particular and not just because she's a woman who is friendly with you. People's thresholds for 'personal' vary pretty widely, and you may be misinterpreting her opening up to someone completely unrelated to the rest of her life. Sometimes it's easier to open up to a coworker because everyone in your personal life is involved somehow. I don't know if this is true of your situation in particular, but is it just you she's open with or is she open with everyone?
As for asking her out, don't overthink it. Start with something simple. Ask her where she likes to go to eat, what her favorite dishes are. Share yours. Go from there, maybe suggest that the two of you go eat at one of those places sometime, and see how she reacts.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Ah, I should have clarified. I'm pretty darned sure she isn't interested in me in any romantic way right now. What simply confused me is that she talks about a whole bunch of personal information that I've rarely ever heard anyone, save some certain people who are clearly attention-starved, give out.
Maybe she's attention-starved?
The way I see it, we're about the only two people at the company of similar age who have similar background.
In any case, if I were to redo this thread, I would have focused more on this-
You're right. I have no real practice with being in a platonic relationship with someone. As such, I'm lost. I really have no idea where to even begin. How do I do anything that starts such a friendship without looking creepy?
I think the biggest key is to remind yourself to stop thinking ten steps ahead. You mention you've had people who've wanted to be friends with you in the past, and you've got plenty of friendly acquaintances. Maybe just pursue that a little more? If you haven't gone to see the Martian yet, which looks freaking amazing (I loved the book), maybe ask one of these friendly acquaintances if they have any plans to see it, and invite them to go see it with you?
Also, remember rejection isn't indicative of anything wrong with you, it's just incompatibility. If someone isn't interested in being your friend or being in a relationship with you, it just means you wouldn't have worked out anyway.
As for the whole creepy thing, things are only are weird as you make them. Reign it back and don't let it come across as a big deal. Because it shouldn't be -it's just hanging out.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
Proceed with caution.
I was working at this place for a good two months before this new hire came in. She was older, had two kids, and divorced. All well and good, whatever. She worked, did her job well, and was liked by the customers.... but had one major problem; she kept crying about how was "was never going to have sex again".
Kind of an odd thing to throw out there. It went on for six months or so; she would randomly blurt out something along the lines of "I'm never going to have sex again", we would ignore her, two people would comment about a customer's shapeliness and she would say "Why can't people talk about me that way?", the weekend would come around with plans of drinking/visiting girlfriends and she would just sit there and sigh.
Then this dumbass in the apartment decides he's going to see if she wants to actually do something about it. Next I know he gets fired (Understandably), she's screaming "Woe is me, why would he think I would want to do something like that", and my managers (Which is a massive breach in protocol, mind) that this is the third time she's done something like this; gotten someone fired for sexually harassing her while sexually harassing everyone else.
Unfortunately that dumbass was a really well liked guy in the department, and while no one retaliated, it just wasn't the same. About a month later, my Assistant Manager moved to a different department, my Manager moved to a different store, we had an entirely new workforce and the new manager was as incompetent as he was pompous. I ended up leaving three weeks after he signed up.
I know it's not what you want to hear; but if she's "giving out information that seems odd", just leave her alone. It's not worth the trouble.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
First of all, I notice that your post is filled with assumptions. For example, you said you don't know how to talk about yourself. So I'm hypothesizing one of your implicit assumptions is that if she talks about herself personally, you should respond in kind with talking about yourself. That's not necessarily true, so I wouldn't berate yourself that you should have to reveal the personal details of your life as well. If it comes, let it come naturally.
The women I've been most attracted to have been my total opposite. Sometimes those kinds of girls find a guy who doesn't speak much to be mysterious and interesting.
Secondly Jay13x focuses a lot on the girl not being interested as a possibility. In fact that appears a few times in the answers below. I will say the exact thing another way. Don't assume necessarily that its on you to make this work--that you have it in your ability to say the right things, and act out in such a way to make her really like you. That's a faulty assumption. Guys have this conception of "game" If you say the right things, do the right things, you can make any girl fall for you. At best there are some techniques you can apply that will help you with people in general. But for any particular girl don't sweat it. If it turns out she doesn't like you, it's not a fault of your shortcomings, miscalculations, or playing your cards wrong.
So the first two words of advice have been about moving your framework of the situation a little bit out of how you initially structured it in your mind.
The last and third piece of advice which has been helpful for me, is to avoid social awkwardness.
It's kind of funny. Though it sounds simple, it never really clicked for me on how to do it until I heard the same advice another way:
do what you can do put her at ease and make her feel comfortable.
If you're talking with her, are you standing up hovering over her while she is sitting down? Pull a chair and speak to her eye to eye.
Tell a joke. if it flops, laugh at yourself. Don't be unduly serious. Avoid going into excessive detail about technical topics.
Did something happen that really embarrassed you in the middle of your hanging out? Confront it head on.
Women have an uncanny ability to discern social cues. In terms of grasping the social stratum, men in their thirties are often on the level of girls in high school. Their "toys" growing up are literally "social situations" (Tea parties with Mr. Bear, playing house, barbie and ken) They, almost universally, find confidence attractive. If you are not confident, they can sniff you out the way men can sniff out an obese girl trying to hide her fat with baggy clothes.
Simply "being confident" is too ambiguous a directive. So once again, another way of confronting the problem is to seek high value social behaviors.
Nervousness, insecurity in yourself is low value social behavior. Those who are MORE confident, those with standing if this were a group of friends, have to take care of you if you are insecure (in this hypothetical)
I'm writing that last bit to you though its a theoretical prospect and not so much practical advice, because if you are deeply analytical with a tendency to overthink, perhaps directing your considerable mental capabilities in the direction of a theoretical framework can help you find confidence in figuring out what you should do.
This doesn't sound like someone who is attention starved to me, at least not in the way you worded it.
It sounds more like someone who wears their heart on their sleeve. The result of that is neutral. She is neither seeking attention nor pushing people away. I'd say she's simply expressive or venting.
Well, not so much "respond in kind", but rather that I simply don't have the experience of being "open" with people.
I think another way of putting it is that I don't know how to talk about things that relate to me personally in a natural manner.
Good point. I hadn't considered it in that light.
she talks to you a lot. which left me thinking that she likes you?
you don't have anyone you consider a friend. use this to your advantage, since you don't have any steady friend, you look mysterious, that's why she's talking to you.
now for application.
ask her out as a friend? maybe that's a good start. This style never gets old. start from there dude, and once you get out with her. show her your fun side. and enjoy.
She invited me over for Thanskgiving at her parent's house after I told her that I'd be spending Thanksgiving alone.
It was just her family and me.
It was a nice dinner. I had a good time.
I'm also stupefied over the whole thing.