Snow! It's one of the coolest (pun intended) parts of my cube, and I think it's something worth a MCD.
Basically, I decided to make all my basic lands into snow lands because it opens up a whole new subset of powerful cards for a C/Ube.
Here's some of them and a brief discussion of each card.
Cards I currently play: Gelid Shackles- For aggro decks, it's extremely useful because it shuts down blocking and activated abilites. In other decks, it's Arrest for W and an upkeep of S.
Chilling Shade- An extremely effective creature with flying and easy pumping. Great finisher in control decks.
Zombie Musher- Unblocker 2/3 that regenerates for S. Blocks well until it needs to attack.
Stalking Yeti- The snow part is not as necessary for Yeti to be good, but it's nice to help mow down more utility guys.
Skred- Pure, effecient creature removal for cheap.
Mouth of Ronom- Amazing land that can remove a creature and fits into nearly every deck.
Other cards to consider: Cold Snap- Literally just realized this was uncommon today. Seems like a possibly even better Sulfuric Vortex (!), but does raise the question of how fair it is to force players into a 'drawback' when drafting.
Rimewind Taskmage- Better effect than similar cards, but doesn't reliably get going until turn 5+.
Balduvian Frostwalker- Reusable way of turning lands into threats. Worth considering as a control finisher. Can even be a method of land destruction.
Gangrenous Zombie- 2/2 for 1BB with an attached Volcanic Fallout, could compare to Infect, etc.
Moreso I wish they werent stupid enough to bring it back
Make me get lands... I hate them for it.
In any case, I could run snow cards without shelling out $bills and just say that all lands are snow. Judging by that metric...
Sunstone - God this card would be super annoying. I might play it but it is kinda narrow. You need to have an evasive clock and be in danger from losing at the same time.
Ironfoot - that isn't all drawback. It is sometimes vigilance. Definitely would test.
into the north - I'm not playing rampant growth anymore (i don't think) so i wouldn't play it just so I could get one card. No, you have to replace your refuges with arctic flats and company to get me to think about it.
Freyalise's radiance - testable, but also seems narrow
Boreal centaur - The centaur is not like darkthicket wolf, since darkthicket wolf beats like 200% of all creatures ever printed in combat.
Frostwaker - super interesting would have to test it.
Mouth of ronom - the biggest reason why i'd like to do this. so cool.
Stalking yeti - actually probably pretty powerful. It'd be a tormentor exarch with a bigger body, can deal with 3/3s, and reusable. Wow.
Coldsnap - What the **** this card is bananas
Chilling Shade - Unreal card, treat it like a 6 drop if they have mountains in the deck. It's a flying 7/7 if you do.
True point about those lands being hard to get. I happened to get lucky with some online sales and now have about 40-50 of each Coldsnap basic.
That being said, I haven't even thought about getting foil ones. I literally have a foil Mountain and a foil Forest and that's it. Shelling out a few hundred for foil snow-covered lands is a daunting task.
I am just rejoining the MTG community, since my friends that play regularly just moved back.
This is relevant to your discussion because my cube is a snow-themed pauper cube that I am currently in the process of updating. Just starting the research into what is new in the pauper and getting an order together.
I can attest to the greatness of Chilling Shade and Zombie Musher in an "All Snow Land" format.
Stalking Yeti is a beast....that card alone makes me want to run snow lands. It's exactly the kind of versatility and reach that we need in a red creature.
Cold Snap looks completely back-breaking...maybe too much, but would be worth testing.
My cube's experience with Cold Snap was that people really didn't like it when snow became a drawback they literally could not avoid.
There were times it sat in its owner's hand because they couldn't afford to play it. But that's probably a minority situation.
I took it out for the goodwill of snow with my playgroup.
I really liked snow because it was another resource to balance when drafting. Triple Coldsnap had its problems (and even those I didn't mind as much for the chance of trying a new environment), but I think those were all based on the set size and not on snow. In fact, a new snow block is right up there with 'wedge block' and 'card types matter' block on my wish list.
If you make all your lands snow as mentioned in the OP, then it's very close to just being "basic lands matter" as a mechanic, which seems not that exciting to me for peasant. The tension should be between running an amount of snow lands that's between 0 and 100%, but I have no idea how to make that work unless you make people draft their snow lands like in Coldsnap limited.
I really liked snow because it was another resource to balance when drafting. Triple Coldsnap had its problems (and even those I didn't mind as much for the chance of trying a new environment), but I think those were all based on the set size and not on snow. In fact, a new snow block is right up there with 'wedge block' and 'card types matter' block on my wish list.
It's a bad mechanic because magic doesn't exist in one bubble. As a purely draft mechanic, yeah that's pretty cool. But If I want to run mouth of ronom I need to do... what? Seriously I need to hunt down how many snow islands? It's a mechanic with no considerations on the ramifications that will happen to people who want to play with the cards outside of the year that they are printed.
I mean, almost every Zendikar basic is worth more than a Coldsnap basic of the same type. I know there's a huge function gap there, but I mean to say that just printing a relevant basic land in a large set people actually open a lot of is a step in the right direction.
Heck, I thought Modern Masters would've been a great place to reprint them. Just blame Coldsnap instead of snow in general.
Zendikar lands = no more functional than basics
Snow lands = 100% necessary to get like 20+ of them in you want to run certain cards. Only printed like twice.
Zendikar lands = no more functional than basics
Snow lands = 100% necessary to get like 20+ of them in you want to run certain cards. Only printed like twice.
Agreed. That's why I'm saying the real problem is that Coldsnap was a small, underpowered set that no one bought. If they did a large snow block and snow basics were like gates in DGM, people would get them real quick. It being underutilized makes it unfortunate, not bad.
so what do people actually think of the cards that become available when running snow basics?
A lot of my thoughts are the same as the original post of thise thread. I think Gelid Shackles is underrated. I have since tried Baldivian Frostwalker and it's pretty good. Trading lands for 2/2 fliers has its applications.
In general, snow is deep enough to go in a few dfferent directions. There's a Pestilence variant, some LD, creature pump, etc.
A small note: Read Stalking Yeti carefully. His ability is affected by pump spells and does nothing if it's removed in response.
I think the problem is that if players can choose snow or not, whoever drafted it chooses snow and no one else does. It kind of ruins the thematic experience and can make a functional difference for some cards.
The difference is basically what snow cards you're running and whether or not any of them 'punish' snow. I don't recommend playing cards that punish snow that much, because it turns the reactions from 'So, that basically kills any creature for R? Cool.' to 'You only beat me because I had to play snow.'
The only snow punisher I have right now is Zombie Musher. It's obviously only good because all basics are snow, but people sort of 'get it' right away and it feels like a normal, albeit very good, Magic card.
That's the metric I would use: do these snow cards feel like fair, undercosted cards or hoser cards?
On a boring note, I did find there's some confusion when people just 'treat all basics as snow.' Mostly people count ALL their lands as snow instead of just their basics. It affects the counting on Skred and Chilling Shade, mostly. I also think it helps to balance those cards by not being as great in nonbasic heavy decks.
Sorry for gravedigging but I am tinkering whether adding snow basics is now a valiable option due to the additions of Modern Horizons.
Specifically these are the cards that make me thinking (besides the snow cards from coldsnap): Icehide Golem, Abominable Treefolk, Frostwalk Bastion, Arcum‘s Astrolabe
I mean, what is there to say? If you swap out all of your basics with snow lands, you gain access to a bunch of cool cards. I want a colorless 2/2 for 1 where the only downside is $.
"Hey, pretend all the basics are snow" ... no $$ required
Also, you're missing:
Rime Tender -- 2/2 mana dork that doesn't fix for missing colors but worst-case of a Llanowar Elves+Grizzly Bear is still great
Winter's Rest -- easily the best blue removal aura
Blizzard Strix -- overcosted Flickerwisp / Restoration Angel is still interesting
Conifer Wurm -- probably not good enough for cube, but it was insane in MH1
You could also put 1 snow basics in each pack, similar to how MH1 was drafted.
It wouldnt be enough for everyone to go snow, but you could possibly choose a colour pair/wedge and make it one of the archetypes of your cube. That way drafting a critical number of snow basics is part of the fun.
You could also run the snow duals, astrolabe, and boreal druid to help reach that critical mass.
For those that are on the fence about $$ for snow lands. Ebay does a $3 off $3.01 orders and up a few times a year. I usually just get a good EDH staple for pennies.
This last time, I got 40 basic snow lands for roughly 2 or 3 dollars total. I had friends and family members make orders for me. Each order was just over 3 dollars, maximizing the sale.
Make some connections now (or make new accounts? Maybe works) and then spam people with the direct link and wave a dollar in their face.
I haven't checked prices on lots of 4 (what I was getting), so not sure how effective it will be next time. It was a week or so after release last time so they were plentiful. It will be way cheaper regardless.
This is a decent GY post, though. Since snow has come back since original posting, things are important. I will be following this in hopes some smarter people discuss the new snow cards.
Basically, I decided to make all my basic lands into snow lands because it opens up a whole new subset of powerful cards for a C/Ube.
Here's some of them and a brief discussion of each card.
Cards I currently play:
Gelid Shackles- For aggro decks, it's extremely useful because it shuts down blocking and activated abilites. In other decks, it's Arrest for W and an upkeep of S.
Chilling Shade- An extremely effective creature with flying and easy pumping. Great finisher in control decks.
Zombie Musher- Unblocker 2/3 that regenerates for S. Blocks well until it needs to attack.
Stalking Yeti- The snow part is not as necessary for Yeti to be good, but it's nice to help mow down more utility guys.
Skred- Pure, effecient creature removal for cheap.
Mouth of Ronom- Amazing land that can remove a creature and fits into nearly every deck.
Other cards to consider:
Cold Snap- Literally just realized this was uncommon today. Seems like a possibly even better Sulfuric Vortex (!), but does raise the question of how fair it is to force players into a 'drawback' when drafting.
Rimewind Taskmage- Better effect than similar cards, but doesn't reliably get going until turn 5+.
Balduvian Frostwalker- Reusable way of turning lands into threats. Worth considering as a control finisher. Can even be a method of land destruction.
Gangrenous Zombie- 2/2 for 1BB with an attached Volcanic Fallout, could compare to Infect, etc.
Icequake- Strictly better than Rain of Tears.
Rime Transfusion- +2/+1 with activated unblockability. Sort of like a Spectral Flight or Pursuit of Flight.
Avalanche- A better Rain of Salts, don't know if that means much.
Boreal Centaur- For those of you who like Darkthicket Wolf, here's another guy just like it.
Freyalise's Radiance- Kind of a bad mono-colored Winter Orb, but that's still a decent effect.
Into the North- Strictly better than Rampant Growth if you play Mouth of Ronom.
Thermokarst- Strictly better than Winter's Grasp.
Phyrexian Ironfoot- Another 3-power 3-mana guy with some drawback.
Sunstone- A colorless Constant Mists, if you like that kind of thing.
So, does anyone else have experience with snow in their cubes? Even researching for this exposed me to a few cards I might add to my cube.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
In any case, I could run snow cards without shelling out $bills and just say that all lands are snow. Judging by that metric...
Sunstone - God this card would be super annoying. I might play it but it is kinda narrow. You need to have an evasive clock and be in danger from losing at the same time.
Ironfoot - that isn't all drawback. It is sometimes vigilance. Definitely would test.
into the north - I'm not playing rampant growth anymore (i don't think) so i wouldn't play it just so I could get one card. No, you have to replace your refuges with arctic flats and company to get me to think about it.
Freyalise's radiance - testable, but also seems narrow
Boreal centaur - The centaur is not like darkthicket wolf, since darkthicket wolf beats like 200% of all creatures ever printed in combat.
Frostwaker - super interesting would have to test it.
Mouth of ronom - the biggest reason why i'd like to do this. so cool.
Stalking yeti - actually probably pretty powerful. It'd be a tormentor exarch with a bigger body, can deal with 3/3s, and reusable. Wow.
Coldsnap - What the **** this card is bananas
Chilling Shade - Unreal card, treat it like a 6 drop if they have mountains in the deck. It's a flying 7/7 if you do.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
That being said, I haven't even thought about getting foil ones. I literally have a foil Mountain and a foil Forest and that's it. Shelling out a few hundred for foil snow-covered lands is a daunting task.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
This is relevant to your discussion because my cube is a snow-themed pauper cube that I am currently in the process of updating. Just starting the research into what is new in the pauper and getting an order together.
I can attest to the greatness of Chilling Shade and Zombie Musher in an "All Snow Land" format.
The Ice Cube
The ones I'm most interested in are:
Stalking Yeti is a beast....that card alone makes me want to run snow lands. It's exactly the kind of versatility and reach that we need in a red creature.
Cold Snap looks completely back-breaking...maybe too much, but would be worth testing.
Withering Wisps is close to a cheaper Pestilence.
Skred and Mouth of Ronom are obviously great.
There were times it sat in its owner's hand because they couldn't afford to play it. But that's probably a minority situation.
I took it out for the goodwill of snow with my playgroup.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
....
seriously
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
It's a bad mechanic because magic doesn't exist in one bubble. As a purely draft mechanic, yeah that's pretty cool. But If I want to run mouth of ronom I need to do... what? Seriously I need to hunt down how many snow islands? It's a mechanic with no considerations on the ramifications that will happen to people who want to play with the cards outside of the year that they are printed.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Heck, I thought Modern Masters would've been a great place to reprint them. Just blame Coldsnap instead of snow in general.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Snow lands = 100% necessary to get like 20+ of them in you want to run certain cards. Only printed like twice.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Agreed. That's why I'm saying the real problem is that Coldsnap was a small, underpowered set that no one bought. If they did a large snow block and snow basics were like gates in DGM, people would get them real quick. It being underutilized makes it unfortunate, not bad.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
A lot of my thoughts are the same as the original post of thise thread. I think Gelid Shackles is underrated. I have since tried Baldivian Frostwalker and it's pretty good. Trading lands for 2/2 fliers has its applications.
In general, snow is deep enough to go in a few dfferent directions. There's a Pestilence variant, some LD, creature pump, etc.
A small note: Read Stalking Yeti carefully. His ability is affected by pump spells and does nothing if it's removed in response.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
The difference is basically what snow cards you're running and whether or not any of them 'punish' snow. I don't recommend playing cards that punish snow that much, because it turns the reactions from 'So, that basically kills any creature for R? Cool.' to 'You only beat me because I had to play snow.'
The only snow punisher I have right now is Zombie Musher. It's obviously only good because all basics are snow, but people sort of 'get it' right away and it feels like a normal, albeit very good, Magic card.
That's the metric I would use: do these snow cards feel like fair, undercosted cards or hoser cards?
On a boring note, I did find there's some confusion when people just 'treat all basics as snow.' Mostly people count ALL their lands as snow instead of just their basics. It affects the counting on Skred and Chilling Shade, mostly. I also think it helps to balance those cards by not being as great in nonbasic heavy decks.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Bands with other
Minotaur tribal when all of the 'minotaurs' were not actually minotaurs
Minotaur tribal isn't a mechanic
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Specifically these are the cards that make me thinking (besides the snow cards from coldsnap): Icehide Golem, Abominable Treefolk, Frostwalk Bastion, Arcum‘s Astrolabe
My Peasant Cube: @ mtgsalvation---- @ cubecobra
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Also, you're missing:
Rime Tender -- 2/2 mana dork that doesn't fix for missing colors but worst-case of a Llanowar Elves+Grizzly Bear is still great
Winter's Rest -- easily the best blue removal aura
Blizzard Strix -- overcosted Flickerwisp / Restoration Angel is still interesting
Conifer Wurm -- probably not good enough for cube, but it was insane in MH1
It wouldnt be enough for everyone to go snow, but you could possibly choose a colour pair/wedge and make it one of the archetypes of your cube. That way drafting a critical number of snow basics is part of the fun.
You could also run the snow duals, astrolabe, and boreal druid to help reach that critical mass.
This last time, I got 40 basic snow lands for roughly 2 or 3 dollars total. I had friends and family members make orders for me. Each order was just over 3 dollars, maximizing the sale.
Make some connections now (or make new accounts? Maybe works) and then spam people with the direct link and wave a dollar in their face.
I haven't checked prices on lots of 4 (what I was getting), so not sure how effective it will be next time. It was a week or so after release last time so they were plentiful. It will be way cheaper regardless.
This is a decent GY post, though. Since snow has come back since original posting, things are important. I will be following this in hopes some smarter people discuss the new snow cards.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647