ok friends, for most of us Azorius is kinda the lost guild, at least for me it was. Ususally UW flier was the most to get out of it. maybe blink. both are pretty vanilla archetypes without much guild support though.
Relooking into the guild I might have discovered the missing archetype. Not sure if T1 worthy, but thanks to pretty lowcuved material, it has potential:
It lacks some decent 2 drops to give it a nice curve right now Vedalken Outlander being the next best thing. If you want you can expand the archetype into black i guess. not sure how viable esper (3c) is though.
might give them a try in my next testdrafts (still on xmage)
It's a nice idea, but two problems crop up for me.
1. What's the payoff?
You need a reward for going deep on artifacts. I only see (in these colors obv) Vedalken Certarch, Ardent Recruit and Rusted Relic/Myr Enforcer. You already noted Ethersworn Shieldmage which I like - it's a card I wish was just a little more pushed. If it had been a 2/2 for UW it could easily be a power common and a guild icon. Or it could have been a 2/3 for 1UW, slightly more realistic and more in the realm of playable. Even more interesting, give it affinity and something like a 3UW cost as a way to make you work for that UW flash bear.
Interesting to note that a card like Esper Cormorants isn't much of a payoff (especially with Phantom Monster floating around) but the artifact tag actually makes it an enabler. So I think you have to consider what role your artifact-matters cards are gonna play in practice, and make sure you have enough payoff cards and make it rewarding enough to build around them.
2. What does artifacts matter actually mean?
Look at the cards I mentioned above. What decks do they actually fit in? Certarch is a control tool, Recruit is aggro, Rusted Relic/Enforcer are midrange beatsticks. They're all over the place. Once you have a bunch of artifacts, what are you actually doing with them? You want an engine. You want some glue to bring the deck together. The best you can do in these colors is something like Artificer's Epiphany, Sage of Lat-Nam or Gearseeker Serpent.
I would look to Al's pauper artifact cube for ideas. He has a ton of incidental artifact generation in the form of clues, contraptions and fabricators, to guarantee a suitable number of artifacts for whatever shenanigans your deck wants to do (it doesn't look like it was updated after Ixalan or we would probably see Treasure tokens too). But when the whole cube is about artifacts, the need for payoffs doesn't really matter as much. Your default mode is "I'm an artifact deck". In a regular pauper cube, I might ask myself some questions. What distinguishes an artifact deck, specifically a UW one, from other decks? What does it do better? Questions like that.
My own opinion is that it's not really there yet compared to the current skies or flash archetypes. But it would be great to visit an artifact-centric set with the New New World Order that's giving us such decent commons lately. Things might change after a set like that
the payoff is a low curved uw aggrodeck and a guild identity. metalcraft is still crap and unreliable. no idea why you come up
with all those trashcards, its not a "deep artifact deck" in the first place. Artificer's Epiphany seems ok.
shieldmage is already pretty pushed as is.
you are right about clues though, which gives us
There are also 2 "fair Metalcraft +2/+2 bodies that don't impress much; (4/6 for 3w, and 5/7 for 4U). An argument can be made for bleed over into Equipment matters bodies as they will want some of the artifacts too.
Just spitballing.
Edit: the card that really incentivizes is Sage of Lat Nam, especially if you run the Wellsprings and/or Spellbombs
you guys want to blow it up way too much. just want to use the opportunity cards that interact with artifacts. no way "affinity as archetype" can ever work in a normal cube. at best you will consistently have 2 artifacts in play.
only equip matters can work if you find the slots for 3 Leonin Scimitar
at that point it replaces too many regular cards for my taste though.
My problem with an artifact archetype is, that it's very demanding for a bunch of slots dedicated towards it, which is very problematic, when you only support it for one specific color combination. My general philosophy is, that I don't dictate what archetype people have to play in specific colors, but to simply play all the best multicolor cards and let the drafters get creative, with what they want to do in these colors. I might add some multicolor cards, that are specific to a particular archetype over cards, that are stronger in a vacuum, like Selesnya Evangel, but I don't think all multicolor cards for a guild have to be one archetype.
As far as fliers go we don't really have much support in azorius for that. If you want to go fliers, the only "payoff" we really have at common are Warden of Evos Isle and Winged Words. If you want this to be an archetype, you can't really do that with the multicolor cards, but by simply including a bunch of fliers especially in the 2-drop section. The Welkin Terns are really helpful in that.
UW blink is not an archetype. White has some blink effects, but very little good etb effects. Many of the good etb effects are in Black. If you want blink as an archetype I think the most viable plan would be to focus on UB with stuff like Cavern Harpy and if you want to go really deep you can include the Ghostly Flicker combo.
i dont understand why artifact matters automatically triggers affinity dellusions..
the cards i run there just need one artifact to activate. everything more is unplayable.
and no, control is not an archetype in my book, its a strategy and half of the usual azorius cards are the epitome of boring.
If it's artifact aggro you want, I'm baffled as to why you'd want to limit it to UW. Sure you have Court Homunculus and Gearsmith Prodigy, but some of the greatest artifact aggro cards are in other colors. Reckless Fireweaver and Carapace Forger in particular come to mind as killer two-drops.
Not only is there a lack of two-drops, which is critical for aggro, but you also need enough cheap artifacts AND they have to be relevant to aggro. Dropping Gearsmith followed by a signet would just be silly. You want to drop either a well-statted artifact creature or an equipment. The first doesnt really exist at common, and pauper cubers dont run nearly enough equipment, even though they should (Leonin Scimitar in multiples is great - imagine dropping Gearsmith, then Scimitar + equip next turn!).
If it's artifact aggro you want, I think that archetype is better off sprinkled in every color, because the card type that matters (artifacts) is colorless and thus accessible to everyone. You also want players to be able to pivot into a backup color if blue or white ends up fizzling out on the artifact-matters cards (highly likely to me, considering the lack of decent support). If it's an update to the Azorius guild you want, I think UW is far too well off to consider artifact aggro as it looks right now.
Artifact Synergies are fine, but stepping into things like Spellbombs, Wellsprings, and some generalized "can fit" artifacts would likely need a home.Running 2x 2/2's for 1cmc seems like it would want something more. And more seemed to head towards Metalcraft; imo.
as said, metalcraft is a nono, we would need a lot of artifact creatures to enable it wihout running useless filler artifacts.
im aware on the lack of 2 drops (mentioned in the opener)
so yeah, tappping into equip matters might be right to have more flesh.
not too many 2 drops still though,
good reason to bring back Vulshok Morningstar for curving out
also there is trinket mage, i think uw is the colors you want for this. one random dude in another color doesnt help.
also overlooked Ethercaste Knight
Borderposts, and make sure the signets are there,
But looking at even the cards you do want, they are only 25-50% than non-artifact dependent ones.
A 4cmc flying gravedigger with +0/+1is nice.
But 1cmc 2/2s are good, but without continuous pressure via 1cmc or 0cmc equipment, they are outclassed. Unless I am wrong in the operation.
But if UW is the only Artifact-synergy co,its, does that not make it like Slivers or Tribal? Where you either are "on the rails" or wasting picks?
Again, I can be wrong, but even if you get all of those, I am not seeing the payout without the massive bodies.
Also, what is wrong with Glassdust Hulk, or Aether Swooper?
Other cards that may fit in:
Bonded Construct
Mana Myrs
Flayer Husk
Glinthawk Idol
Myr Sire
Sky Skiff
Sphere of the Suns
And I would argue the Token producing Puzzleknot/Spellbomb
i dont know a flying gravedigger, itd be more helpful to actually quote the card
i already run the signets but as said, i refuse to add fillercards just because theyre artifacts, so no borderposts or other crap
yesh the archetype is not quite there yet, but i bet we see more payoffs in the next cpl of sets. and i just dig onedrops, so might as well permaturely include it.
a lot of archetypes "railroad" you like spells matters and whatnot.
Glassdust Hulk would be a neat signpost card, but at that casting cost, the weakness to double type removal really hurts. Worth considering if you have a higher incidence of artifact token generators, I suppose.
For what it's worth, I do agree with Humphrey that tagging cards is pretty important, though I wouldn't have put it quite so passive-aggressively as him. I love Sanctum Gargoyle, but it's not close to being a flying Gravedigger. There's not enough artifact creature density to make it so. It's more of a value card in an Artifactocrats archetype, where you're bringing back stuff like Spellbombs for value.
Come to think of it, having more artifactocrats stuff at common would really help. I see it more as a red theme (see stuff like Atog, Artillerize, Destructive Digger). Carrion Feeder is such a simple, iconic design at this point. They can riff on it by using different card types in other colors, like:
Scrap FeederR
Creature - Gremlin
Scrap Feeder can't block.
Sacrifice an artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on Scrap Feeder.
1/1
Relooking into the guild I might have discovered the missing archetype. Not sure if T1 worthy, but thanks to pretty lowcuved material, it has potential:
UW Artifacts matter "core":
(artifact lands)
It lacks some decent 2 drops to give it a nice curve right now Vedalken Outlander being the next best thing. If you want you can expand the archetype into black i guess. not sure how viable esper (3c) is though.
might give them a try in my next testdrafts (still on xmage)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
1. What's the payoff?
You need a reward for going deep on artifacts. I only see (in these colors obv) Vedalken Certarch, Ardent Recruit and Rusted Relic/Myr Enforcer. You already noted Ethersworn Shieldmage which I like - it's a card I wish was just a little more pushed. If it had been a 2/2 for UW it could easily be a power common and a guild icon. Or it could have been a 2/3 for 1UW, slightly more realistic and more in the realm of playable. Even more interesting, give it affinity and something like a 3UW cost as a way to make you work for that UW flash bear.
Interesting to note that a card like Esper Cormorants isn't much of a payoff (especially with Phantom Monster floating around) but the artifact tag actually makes it an enabler. So I think you have to consider what role your artifact-matters cards are gonna play in practice, and make sure you have enough payoff cards and make it rewarding enough to build around them.
2. What does artifacts matter actually mean?
Look at the cards I mentioned above. What decks do they actually fit in? Certarch is a control tool, Recruit is aggro, Rusted Relic/Enforcer are midrange beatsticks. They're all over the place. Once you have a bunch of artifacts, what are you actually doing with them? You want an engine. You want some glue to bring the deck together. The best you can do in these colors is something like Artificer's Epiphany, Sage of Lat-Nam or Gearseeker Serpent.
I would look to Al's pauper artifact cube for ideas. He has a ton of incidental artifact generation in the form of clues, contraptions and fabricators, to guarantee a suitable number of artifacts for whatever shenanigans your deck wants to do (it doesn't look like it was updated after Ixalan or we would probably see Treasure tokens too). But when the whole cube is about artifacts, the need for payoffs doesn't really matter as much. Your default mode is "I'm an artifact deck". In a regular pauper cube, I might ask myself some questions. What distinguishes an artifact deck, specifically a UW one, from other decks? What does it do better? Questions like that.
My own opinion is that it's not really there yet compared to the current skies or flash archetypes. But it would be great to visit an artifact-centric set with the New New World Order that's giving us such decent commons lately. Things might change after a set like that
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
with all those trashcards, its not a "deep artifact deck" in the first place. Artificer's Epiphany seems ok.
shieldmage is already pretty pushed as is.
you are right about clues though, which gives us
Thraben Inspector
a lot of the cards i want to run are already floating in the "cubable" terrain, so the archetype doesnt come with a high cost.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
There are also 2 "fair Metalcraft +2/+2 bodies that don't impress much; (4/6 for 3w, and 5/7 for 4U). An argument can be made for bleed over into Equipment matters bodies as they will want some of the artifacts too.
Just spitballing.
Edit: the card that really incentivizes is Sage of Lat Nam, especially if you run the Wellsprings and/or Spellbombs
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only equip matters can work if you find the slots for 3 Leonin Scimitar
at that point it replaces too many regular cards for my taste though.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
My problem with an artifact archetype is, that it's very demanding for a bunch of slots dedicated towards it, which is very problematic, when you only support it for one specific color combination. My general philosophy is, that I don't dictate what archetype people have to play in specific colors, but to simply play all the best multicolor cards and let the drafters get creative, with what they want to do in these colors. I might add some multicolor cards, that are specific to a particular archetype over cards, that are stronger in a vacuum, like Selesnya Evangel, but I don't think all multicolor cards for a guild have to be one archetype.
As far as fliers go we don't really have much support in azorius for that. If you want to go fliers, the only "payoff" we really have at common are Warden of Evos Isle and Winged Words. If you want this to be an archetype, you can't really do that with the multicolor cards, but by simply including a bunch of fliers especially in the 2-drop section. The Welkin Terns are really helpful in that.
UW blink is not an archetype. White has some blink effects, but very little good etb effects. Many of the good etb effects are in Black. If you want blink as an archetype I think the most viable plan would be to focus on UB with stuff like Cavern Harpy and if you want to go really deep you can include the Ghostly Flicker combo.
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the cards i run there just need one artifact to activate. everything more is unplayable.
and no, control is not an archetype in my book, its a strategy and half of the usual azorius cards are the epitome of boring.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Not only is there a lack of two-drops, which is critical for aggro, but you also need enough cheap artifacts AND they have to be relevant to aggro. Dropping Gearsmith followed by a signet would just be silly. You want to drop either a well-statted artifact creature or an equipment. The first doesnt really exist at common, and pauper cubers dont run nearly enough equipment, even though they should (Leonin Scimitar in multiples is great - imagine dropping Gearsmith, then Scimitar + equip next turn!).
If it's artifact aggro you want, I think that archetype is better off sprinkled in every color, because the card type that matters (artifacts) is colorless and thus accessible to everyone. You also want players to be able to pivot into a backup color if blue or white ends up fizzling out on the artifact-matters cards (highly likely to me, considering the lack of decent support). If it's an update to the Azorius guild you want, I think UW is far too well off to consider artifact aggro as it looks right now.
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Artifact Synergies are fine, but stepping into things like Spellbombs, Wellsprings, and some generalized "can fit" artifacts would likely need a home.Running 2x 2/2's for 1cmc seems like it would want something more. And more seemed to head towards Metalcraft; imo.
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Pauper Cube Article #1
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im aware on the lack of 2 drops (mentioned in the opener)
so yeah, tappping into equip matters might be right to have more flesh.
not too many 2 drops still though,
good reason to bring back Vulshok Morningstar for curving out
also there is trinket mage, i think uw is the colors you want for this. one random dude in another color doesnt help.
also overlooked Ethercaste Knight
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
But looking at even the cards you do want, they are only 25-50% than non-artifact dependent ones.
A 4cmc flying gravedigger with +0/+1is nice.
But 1cmc 2/2s are good, but without continuous pressure via 1cmc or 0cmc equipment, they are outclassed. Unless I am wrong in the operation.
But if UW is the only Artifact-synergy co,its, does that not make it like Slivers or Tribal? Where you either are "on the rails" or wasting picks?
Again, I can be wrong, but even if you get all of those, I am not seeing the payout without the massive bodies.
Also, what is wrong with Glassdust Hulk, or Aether Swooper?
Other cards that may fit in:
Bonded Construct
Mana Myrs
Flayer Husk
Glinthawk Idol
Myr Sire
Sky Skiff
Sphere of the Suns
And I would argue the Token producing Puzzleknot/Spellbomb
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
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i already run the signets but as said, i refuse to add fillercards just because theyre artifacts, so no borderposts or other crap
yesh the archetype is not quite there yet, but i bet we see more payoffs in the next cpl of sets. and i just dig onedrops, so might as well permaturely include it.
a lot of archetypes "railroad" you like spells matters and whatnot.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
For what it's worth, I do agree with Humphrey that tagging cards is pretty important, though I wouldn't have put it quite so passive-aggressively as him. I love Sanctum Gargoyle, but it's not close to being a flying Gravedigger. There's not enough artifact creature density to make it so. It's more of a value card in an Artifactocrats archetype, where you're bringing back stuff like Spellbombs for value.
Come to think of it, having more artifactocrats stuff at common would really help. I see it more as a red theme (see stuff like Atog, Artillerize, Destructive Digger). Carrion Feeder is such a simple, iconic design at this point. They can riff on it by using different card types in other colors, like:
Scrap Feeder R
Creature - Gremlin
Scrap Feeder can't block.
Sacrifice an artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on Scrap Feeder.
1/1
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
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