For the current season you now need more points to gain byes. Do note that your byes earned from last season are safe and you will get them this applies only to this season and the future (until they realize they need to up them again).
One Bye: 400 points
Two Byes: 750 points
Three Byes: 1500 points
BIASED RESPONSE: I'm not sure how I feel about the change I guess I'll let you know after this season if I still have two byes like I thought I would.
UNBIASED: The number was too low especially since they increased the number of GPs, it was too easy to get at least a bye after attending one GP and then you get points for bye wins which generates too powerful of a cycle. All in all it might still be a little to low but still a good step in the right direction.
They should stop byes from gaining people points towards further byes.
No, I don't like the idea of a bye becoming a double-edged sword. It basically means that someone who earns three byes is losing out on a ton of PWP. That doesn't make any sense. Why shouldn't they get byes?
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
No, I don't like the idea of a bye becoming a double-edged sword. It basically means that someone who earns three byes is losing out on a ton of PWP. That doesn't make any sense. Why shouldn't they get byes?
A bye shouldn't be worse than a win, IMO. Also, what do you mean by "the numbers are rather low"?
why not give Planeswalker Points for random byes and not for earned byes? that way people don't get randomly screwed out of them but it makes it harder to roll byes into more byes?
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why not give Planeswalker Points for random byes and not for earned byes? that way people don't get randomly screwed out of them but it makes it harder to roll byes into more byes?
Again, why punish players for earning byes? It doesn't make any sense to do that.
Lifetime points do not matter at all. A bye has to be as good as a win, or getting a bye will feel unfair because you are robbed of an opportunity to earn the benefits of that win.
Lifetime points do not matter at all. A bye has to be as good as a win, or getting a bye will feel unfair because you are robbed of an opportunity to earn the benefits of that win.
Exactly.
As for rolling byes into other byes... yeah, you pretty much should be able to roll byes into other byes. The alternative is that having a bye in the current season make it harder to get a bye in the upcoming season, which is makes the system nonsensical.
Lifetime points do not matter at all. A bye has to be as good as a win, or getting a bye will feel unfair because you are robbed of an opportunity to earn the benefits of that win.
A bye should only increase your chances to win at the tournament you are at, not future tournaments.
A bye should only increase your chances to win at the tournament you are at, not future tournaments.
So, if you have no byes for a GP, and you play in day one of the GP, you should have nine rounds to gain points and earn byes for your next GP. If you have earned three byes for a GP, you should be punished for your accomplishment by getting only six chances (likely against better competition) to gain points for your next GP. That's what you're saying. I don't think that's right.
Yes, I get that you don't want people to get a reward for matches they didn't play in, and I see the issue there, but your proposed solution is even worse. It makes byes a double-edged sword, which is absolutely wrong -- byes are a reward and should have no drawbacks.
Maybe this is problematic for US, but in Europe I can't see how anyone can get 3 byes based on PWP. It's a bit tougher to get that many points here. Just upper the bar for US, don't mess with "byes don't earn PWP" or other stupid ideas.
Getting three byes is very difficult, unless you're regularly hitting GP's and Pro Tours, and I'm sure that's by design. Otherwise, fewer people would play in GPT's. Even in America, you have to be a pretty good player and travel to multiple GP's and/or PTQ's, though it's certainly much easier to do here than in other parts of the world. Getting 1-2 byes, on the other hand, is relatively easy to do as even a fairly local player.
I know a guy who is close to having 1500 PWP this season, but he played in at least three GP's this season with a couple of money finishes.
So, if you have no byes for a GP, and you play in day one of the GP, you should have nine rounds to gain points and earn byes for your next GP. If you have earned three byes for a GP, you should be punished for your accomplishment by getting only six chances (likely against better competition) to gain points for your next GP. That's what you're saying. I don't think that's right.
Yes, I get that you don't want people to get a reward for matches they didn't play in, and I see the issue there, but your proposed solution is even worse. It makes byes a double-edged sword, which is absolutely wrong -- byes are a reward and should have no drawbacks.
I never said that they should be punished, the fact that they got the byes in the first place and not have to worrie about a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round loss is enough of a reward.
I never said that they should be punished, the fact that they got the byes in the first place and not have to worrie about a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round loss is enough of a reward.
Meanwhile, a player who didn't earn any byes plays those first three rounds against easier competition, goes 3-0, and gets 72 points which the other player had no shot at. It doesn't make any sense.
They earned the byes, they should earn the associated points.
I never said that they should be punished, the fact that they got the byes in the first place and not have to worrie about a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round loss is enough of a reward.
Quit whining. The fact that they earned the byes in the first place allows them to gain further points. They had to get the byes in the first place. If you can't get the byes, then that's your problem. The fact that you have to play the first rounds is your own fault for not getting the byes...
Quit whining. The fact that they earned the byes in the first place allows them to gain further points. They had to get the byes in the first place. If you can't get the byes, then that's your problem. The fact that you have to play the first rounds is your own fault for not getting the byes...
I am not whining. I agree with you. The only people who get byes are the people whos every waking moment is playing, winning, living MTG.
I'd rather there be no byes. If these players are as good as they are make them play all the rounds to prove it. Having "earned byes" in the first place is a dumb idea. Again, I also think there shouldn't be a "gravy train" for pro tour players either. Just more PTQs and GPs and make everyone qualify every season. Only exception is top finishes at a Pro Tour garner entry into the next one except you can't win this invitation twice in a row.
I know my stance isn't popular and flies in the face of "career pro tour players". But I think it would make these events far more interesting and the players far better if they continuously won these events.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
this is the biggest lie you could call your self. It is no different then "pro poker players". You would have to go to hundreds of tournaments in a year and hope that you win at least one to cover your expenses. It is not a viable career choice.
I'd rather there be no byes. If these players are as good as they are make them play all the rounds to prove it. Having "earned byes" in the first place is a dumb idea.
So, do you think Planeswalker Points should be meaningless, and GPT's should go away as well?
Again, I also think there shouldn't be a "gravy train" for pro tour players either. Just more PTQs and GPs and make everyone qualify every season. Only exception is top finishes at a Pro Tour garner entry into the next one except you can't win this invitation twice in a row.
Can't win twice in a row? Seems arbitrary, doesn't it? So if I win a PTQ, make the PT, then top 8 that PT, then top 8 another PT, I have to go win another PTQ to get back on the PT? Geez.
I know my stance isn't popular and flies in the face of "career pro tour players". But I think it would make these events far more interesting and the players far better if they continuously won these events.
Would it make things more interesting, where instead of having Pro Tours consisting of all of the best players in Magic, you instead get whichever players happened to do well at a PTQ that season? I don't think so. It de-values the Pro Tour when you don't have the world's best players consistently there.
Are you arguing, then, that people shouldn't be able to make a career out of playing Magic at a professional level? Playing on the Pro Tour is already not a huge income source for most pro players; even many of the well-known regulars have to write for major websites, get sponsorships, and/or hold down regular day jobs.
this is the biggest lie you could call your self. It is no different then "pro poker players". You would have to go to hundreds of tournaments in a year and hope that you win at least one to cover your expenses. It is not a viable career choice.
Again, why do you think it is that the top players are all writing for sites like SCG, holding down regular jobs, or both? It's possible to make a career out of Magic (not purely through winning tournaments), but it's basically a dream job moreso than a realistic target.
So, do you think Planeswalker Points should be meaningless, and GPT's should go away as well?
Can't win twice in a row? Seems arbitrary, doesn't it? So if I win a PTQ, make the PT, then top 8 that PT, then top 8 another PT, I have to go win another PTQ to get back on the PT? Geez.
Would it make things more interesting, where instead of having Pro Tours consisting of all of the best players in Magic, you instead get whichever players happened to do well at a PTQ that season? I don't think so. It de-values the Pro Tour when you don't have the world's best players consistently there.
Are you arguing, then, that people shouldn't be able to make a career out of playing Magic at a professional level? Playing on the Pro Tour is already not a huge income source for most pro players; even many of the well-known regulars have to write for major websites, get sponsorships, and/or hold down regular day jobs.
Again, why do you think it is that the top players are all writing for sites like SCG, holding down regular jobs, or both? It's possible to make a career out of Magic (not purely through winning tournaments), but it's basically a dream job moreso than a realistic target.
First off, no it isn't a huge income for most players playing pro magic already. I don't think anyone is making a real "career" out of it as it is.
I'd rather there be no byes at GPs. I'd rather them get rid of GPTs and have more PTQs.
I guess I don't really care that much really. I just think you should be required to go through the qualifying every so often. Obviously top finishes at PT should continue to allow to be qualified for the next one, I would just rather see the level of competition rise at every level and see different/more players get to play at PTs rather than a lot of "career" magic players.
I'm not going to get on people's back for how they want to make their money. If they want to play a game and travel the world to do so and they "have" to write or "have" to get sponsorships that doesn't sound like a hardship. I really think byes at what is supposed to be a public open is ridiculous. I just think GPs should not have byes, if you want to play them, play through all the rounds. If you're a pro level player, you could easily go through the first rounds most of the time and it would make them far more interesting events.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
I'd rather there be no byes at GPs. I'd rather them get rid of GPTs and have more PTQs.
...
I really think byes at what is supposed to be a public open is ridiculous. I just think GPs should not have byes, if you want to play them, play through all the rounds. If you're a pro level player, you could easily go through the first rounds most of the time and it would make them far more interesting events.
I don't think I'd have a huge problem with that. I don't think playing all nine rounds on day one of a GP is a huge hardship or anything. Here's the thing though: if you take away GP byes, then two things happen.
One, GPT's go away. I'm not sure what replaces them. PTQ's are much, much bigger than GPT's, with the average PTQ's getting around 100 and many GPT's getting fewer than 16 or even failing to fire. It hurts smaller stores a little bit.
The bigger issue, though, is that Planeswalker Points suddenly mean almost nothing. Wizards would have to come up with a different way of rewarding players who come out to tournaments and do well, or else tournament attendance could go south. That, I think, is the biggest danger for them and the biggest reason you won't see GP byes go anywhere.
Personally, I'm fine with keeping the byes. It gives me some incentive to play more often, even though I generally can only manage one bye in a given season.
I don't like byes based on PWP at all. That really comes from the fact that I live in an area that it isn't easy to go to many SCG Opens (for example, I think tournaments are biased towards southeast USA and northwest USA, I live in Utah, and outside of GPs/Opens in Denver and Vegas, they are not easy to get to whereas, how many of those events happen within a 100 mile radius of Washington DC? and Salt Lake has had 1 GP/SCG Open combination event in the last 8 years).
That being said, I don't really have a problem with byes, at GP SLC I won my first 2 rounds rather easily and if I played in more events/more often I can see myself doing a lot better at these things.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/04112012
For the current season you now need more points to gain byes. Do note that your byes earned from last season are safe and you will get them this applies only to this season and the future (until they realize they need to up them again).
One Bye: 400 points
Two Byes: 750 points
Three Byes: 1500 points
BIASED RESPONSE: I'm not sure how I feel about the change I guess I'll let you know after this season if I still have two byes like I thought I would.
UNBIASED: The number was too low especially since they increased the number of GPs, it was too easy to get at least a bye after attending one GP and then you get points for bye wins which generates too powerful of a cycle. All in all it might still be a little to low but still a good step in the right direction.
If its 100% the event is quicker.
So win/win for everyone
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No, I don't like the idea of a bye becoming a double-edged sword. It basically means that someone who earns three byes is losing out on a ton of PWP. That doesn't make any sense. Why shouldn't they get byes?
And some byes are just randomly handed out, depending on the number of participants. I would hate to randomly lose out on points.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
I hate to just repeat myself here, but...
A bye shouldn't be worse than a win, IMO. Also, what do you mean by "the numbers are rather low"?
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Again, why punish players for earning byes? It doesn't make any sense to do that.
I agree, why punish someone for their success. I would hate to see the system turn into some kind of socialism regime.
On the other hand though, I don't think that byes should be able to earn other byes. They can increase your lifetime PWP, but not affect your season.
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Exactly.
As for rolling byes into other byes... yeah, you pretty much should be able to roll byes into other byes. The alternative is that having a bye in the current season make it harder to get a bye in the upcoming season, which is makes the system nonsensical.
A bye should only increase your chances to win at the tournament you are at, not future tournaments.
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So, if you have no byes for a GP, and you play in day one of the GP, you should have nine rounds to gain points and earn byes for your next GP. If you have earned three byes for a GP, you should be punished for your accomplishment by getting only six chances (likely against better competition) to gain points for your next GP. That's what you're saying. I don't think that's right.
Yes, I get that you don't want people to get a reward for matches they didn't play in, and I see the issue there, but your proposed solution is even worse. It makes byes a double-edged sword, which is absolutely wrong -- byes are a reward and should have no drawbacks.
Getting three byes is very difficult, unless you're regularly hitting GP's and Pro Tours, and I'm sure that's by design. Otherwise, fewer people would play in GPT's. Even in America, you have to be a pretty good player and travel to multiple GP's and/or PTQ's, though it's certainly much easier to do here than in other parts of the world. Getting 1-2 byes, on the other hand, is relatively easy to do as even a fairly local player.
I know a guy who is close to having 1500 PWP this season, but he played in at least three GP's this season with a couple of money finishes.
I never said that they should be punished, the fact that they got the byes in the first place and not have to worrie about a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round loss is enough of a reward.
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Meanwhile, a player who didn't earn any byes plays those first three rounds against easier competition, goes 3-0, and gets 72 points which the other player had no shot at. It doesn't make any sense.
They earned the byes, they should earn the associated points.
Quit whining. The fact that they earned the byes in the first place allows them to gain further points. They had to get the byes in the first place. If you can't get the byes, then that's your problem. The fact that you have to play the first rounds is your own fault for not getting the byes...
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I am not whining. I agree with you. The only people who get byes are the people whos every waking moment is playing, winning, living MTG.
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
I know my stance isn't popular and flies in the face of "career pro tour players". But I think it would make these events far more interesting and the players far better if they continuously won these events.
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this is the biggest lie you could call your self. It is no different then "pro poker players". You would have to go to hundreds of tournaments in a year and hope that you win at least one to cover your expenses. It is not a viable career choice.
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
So, do you think Planeswalker Points should be meaningless, and GPT's should go away as well?
Can't win twice in a row? Seems arbitrary, doesn't it? So if I win a PTQ, make the PT, then top 8 that PT, then top 8 another PT, I have to go win another PTQ to get back on the PT? Geez.
Would it make things more interesting, where instead of having Pro Tours consisting of all of the best players in Magic, you instead get whichever players happened to do well at a PTQ that season? I don't think so. It de-values the Pro Tour when you don't have the world's best players consistently there.
Are you arguing, then, that people shouldn't be able to make a career out of playing Magic at a professional level? Playing on the Pro Tour is already not a huge income source for most pro players; even many of the well-known regulars have to write for major websites, get sponsorships, and/or hold down regular day jobs.
Again, why do you think it is that the top players are all writing for sites like SCG, holding down regular jobs, or both? It's possible to make a career out of Magic (not purely through winning tournaments), but it's basically a dream job moreso than a realistic target.
First off, no it isn't a huge income for most players playing pro magic already. I don't think anyone is making a real "career" out of it as it is.
I'd rather there be no byes at GPs. I'd rather them get rid of GPTs and have more PTQs.
I guess I don't really care that much really. I just think you should be required to go through the qualifying every so often. Obviously top finishes at PT should continue to allow to be qualified for the next one, I would just rather see the level of competition rise at every level and see different/more players get to play at PTs rather than a lot of "career" magic players.
I'm not going to get on people's back for how they want to make their money. If they want to play a game and travel the world to do so and they "have" to write or "have" to get sponsorships that doesn't sound like a hardship. I really think byes at what is supposed to be a public open is ridiculous. I just think GPs should not have byes, if you want to play them, play through all the rounds. If you're a pro level player, you could easily go through the first rounds most of the time and it would make them far more interesting events.
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I don't think I'd have a huge problem with that. I don't think playing all nine rounds on day one of a GP is a huge hardship or anything. Here's the thing though: if you take away GP byes, then two things happen.
One, GPT's go away. I'm not sure what replaces them. PTQ's are much, much bigger than GPT's, with the average PTQ's getting around 100 and many GPT's getting fewer than 16 or even failing to fire. It hurts smaller stores a little bit.
The bigger issue, though, is that Planeswalker Points suddenly mean almost nothing. Wizards would have to come up with a different way of rewarding players who come out to tournaments and do well, or else tournament attendance could go south. That, I think, is the biggest danger for them and the biggest reason you won't see GP byes go anywhere.
Personally, I'm fine with keeping the byes. It gives me some incentive to play more often, even though I generally can only manage one bye in a given season.
That being said, I don't really have a problem with byes, at GP SLC I won my first 2 rounds rather easily and if I played in more events/more often I can see myself doing a lot better at these things.
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