This guy is an always efficient and on curve creature with +1/+1 counter synergy and colorless synergy. Its definitely not broken, but what a sweet enabler. What do you all think of it?
Endless OneX
Creature - Eldrazi (R)
Endless One enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it. It embodies all possible meanings of the word "infinite."
0/0
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
it's crap IMO ...even if you plan on flinging it with Barrage Tyrant
Colorless synergies are interesting, and there is better out there than Barrage tyrant. I'm actually really curious about its use in a +1/+1 counter deck. I'm thinking something like...
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I second the love of +1/+1 counter decks. I've been really looking into 1 drops that make them in the current standard to support Avatar of the Resolute so he's consistently a turn 2 4/3 besides Servant of the Scale. I think Honored Hierarch was meant to fill in but it's not quite as a reliable as Servant or this card, and this guy obviously scales way better than Servant does through the game. I like this card anyway, regardless of how good it is. Surprised it hasn't existed yet. Enabler is definitely the right word for it I think.
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They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
I've been also thinking about it, and the only 2 pros of having him is being colorless obviously, but the better part is that he avoids some removal or discard due to his CMC = 0 on hand and on the field. might be worth considering in sb.
Main board in Standard Counters. The fact that it uses +1/+1 counters is very relevant.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I will first say I am a modern player and have little to no experience with standard, but isn't there a huge upside to have a creature that can be 1,2,3,4,5... drop that makes the opportunity cost of the card absurd depending on the match up. I will say that as a modern card I have serious doubts as it doesn't have addition utility, upside, or effects. But I feel that this card is so flexible (X cost, no color required) that it will show power somewhere just due to efficiency and flexing to the exact mana you want to spend for an on-the-curve creature.
If you go deep on +1/+1 counter synergy, it likely has a place, but otherwise, I don't think it does enough. It is very flexible; it's just behind the curve at every point as a vanilla creature.
I will first say I am a modern player and have little to no experience with standard, but isn't there a huge upside to have a creature that can be 1,2,3,4,5... drop that makes the opportunity cost of the card absurd depending on the match up. I will say that as a modern card I have serious doubts as it doesn't have addition utility, upside, or effects. But I feel that this card is so flexible (X cost, no color required) that it will show power somewhere just due to efficiency and flexing to the exact mana you want to spend for an on-the-curve creature.
I'm with this guy. the fact that it makes its own slot in a curve plus no color restrictions is pretty great IMO
Mentioned this in the Mill thread on it, but with Hangarback Walker and Blood Artist, it forms a potential turn 3 kill with Footsteps of the Goryo and Protean Hulk (maybe turn 2 with a little luck). Seems like it'll find some use in Modern, at the very least.
it's crap IMO ...even if you plan on flinging it with Barrage Tyrant
Colorless synergies are interesting, and there is better out there than Barrage tyrant. I'm actually really curious about its use in a +1/+1 counter deck. I'm thinking something like...
it's crap IMO ...even if you plan on flinging it with Barrage Tyrant
Colorless synergies are interesting, and there is better out there than Barrage tyrant. I'm actually really curious about its use in a +1/+1 counter deck. I'm thinking something like...
We have a similar card in Wildcall which curves out the same and has the added bonus of potentially manifesting and digging through your library faster but no plays it. Obviously Wildcall has a 2 green minimum for a 2/2 but it does make a colorless manifest so it has some of the same synergies as this guy. The only way Endless One gets any use is because you can get +1/+1 counters on it for 1 or 2 colorless mana.
1) He's a drop 1 creature that ETBs with a +1/+1 counter. While Servant of the Scale also is and has the added benefit of passing its counters to another creature when it dies, Endless One is a better topdeck later on. With Avatar of the Resolute becoming green's premier two-drop after the rotation of Fleecemane Lion, it's much up to the metagame to define who'll be the one drops between Honored Hierach, Endless One and Servant of the Scale. I'm betting on the former two, to be honest.
2) He's colorless, thus eligible for Ghostfire Blade's equip discount in a Devoid Aggro shell. Problem being, he's one of the only three colorless 1cmc creatures we currently have, the other two being Bonded Construct and Keeper of the Lens. Construct isn't playable and Keeper doesn't have the stats you want in an aggro deck. But if another 1cmc eldrazi is spoiled in the next few days, preferably one with ingest and/or 2/1 P/T, then our infinite dude is an insta 4-of. Just imagine the following BR Devoid Aggro deck:
Of note, Wasteland Strangler only is actually good in here considering the hypothetical Eldrazi or a low cost burn spell that exiles, but it's just an illustration of how amazing Endless One may become in Standard if the gears turn in his favor.
It's a 1/1 for 1 mana a 2/2 for 2 mana and so on that is colorless, which allows it to see play in every color. I like it since it can block creatures with Protection of colors. Colors may be more important going forward.
it's crap IMO ...even if you plan on flinging it with Barrage Tyrant
Colorless synergies are interesting, and there is better out there than Barrage tyrant. I'm actually really curious about its use in a +1/+1 counter deck. I'm thinking something like...
EDIT: Hidden Dragonslayer is misnamed. Its correct name is Hidden Rhinoslayer.
even if fit into a hardenscales deck....he's already been usurped by woodland wanderer IMO
1 drop is servant of the scales or something similar like warden...or hardened scales
2 drop is hangarback
3 drop is anafenza or managorger
drop 4 is woodland wanderer
this guy doesn't fit
Saying this doesn't fit is complete insanity. He literally fits ANYWHERE on the curve.
in order for creatures to see play they have to offer something more than vanilla 1/1 for 1 or 2/2 for 2 and so on......an X/X creature for X and nothing else simply isn't good enough...even if it is always on curve
it actually gets worse the longer the game goes on
Mentioned this in the Mill thread on it, but with Hangarback Walker and Blood Artist, it forms a potential turn 3 kill with Footsteps of the Goryo and Protean Hulk (maybe turn 2 with a little luck). Seems like it'll find some use in Modern, at the very least.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
it's crap IMO ...even if you plan on flinging it with Barrage Tyrant
Colorless synergies are interesting, and there is better out there than Barrage tyrant. I'm actually really curious about its use in a +1/+1 counter deck. I'm thinking something like...
EDIT: Hidden Dragonslayer is misnamed. Its correct name is Hidden Rhinoslayer.
even if fit into a hardenscales deck....he's already been usurped by woodland wanderer IMO
1 drop is servant of the scales or something similar like warden...or hardened scales
2 drop is hangarback
3 drop is anafenza or managorger
drop 4 is woodland wanderer
this guy doesn't fit
Saying this doesn't fit is complete insanity. He literally fits ANYWHERE on the curve.
in order for creatures to see play they have to offer something more than vanilla 1/1 for 1 or 2/2 for 2 and so on......an X/X creature for X and nothing else simply isn't good enough...even if it is always on curve
it actually gets worse the longer the game goes on
that is not the sign of a good creature
Normally I would agree. They are really pushing +1/+1 counters theme. Potential is high.
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Endless One X
Creature - Eldrazi (R)
Endless One enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
It embodies all possible meanings of the word "infinite."
0/0
- Manite
Could be sick? Could be meh? I definitely don't think its bad. Personally, I lurve +1/+1 counter strategies.
Standard:
GMono-Green CountersG
Modern:
URStormUR
XMyr OverflowX
BWBlack-White TokensBW
EDH:
WUGrand Arbiter Augustine's Spell DenialWU
WGRhys's TokensWG
RKrenko's CommandR
Colorless synergies are interesting, and there is better out there than Barrage tyrant. I'm actually really curious about its use in a +1/+1 counter deck. I'm thinking something like...
http://deckstats.net/decks/1485/318869-standard-counters-wip-post-rot
Note that:
selesnya guildgate = canopy vista
grazing gladehart = retreat to kazandu
chimeric mass = endless one
EDIT: Hidden Dragonslayer is misnamed. Its correct name is Hidden Rhinoslayer.
- Manite
But the people behind the barrier knew.
Main board in Standard Counters. The fact that it uses +1/+1 counters is very relevant.
- Manite
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I'm with this guy. the fact that it makes its own slot in a curve plus no color restrictions is pretty great IMO
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
even if fit into a hardenscales deck....he's already been usurped by woodland wanderer IMO
1 drop is servant of the scales or something similar like warden...or hardened scales
2 drop is hangarback
3 drop is anafenza or managorger
drop 4 is woodland wanderer
this guy doesn't fit
Saying this doesn't fit is complete insanity. He literally fits ANYWHERE on the curve.
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
1) He's a drop 1 creature that ETBs with a +1/+1 counter. While Servant of the Scale also is and has the added benefit of passing its counters to another creature when it dies, Endless One is a better topdeck later on. With Avatar of the Resolute becoming green's premier two-drop after the rotation of Fleecemane Lion, it's much up to the metagame to define who'll be the one drops between Honored Hierach, Endless One and Servant of the Scale. I'm betting on the former two, to be honest.
2) He's colorless, thus eligible for Ghostfire Blade's equip discount in a Devoid Aggro shell. Problem being, he's one of the only three colorless 1cmc creatures we currently have, the other two being Bonded Construct and Keeper of the Lens. Construct isn't playable and Keeper doesn't have the stats you want in an aggro deck. But if another 1cmc eldrazi is spoiled in the next few days, preferably one with ingest and/or 2/1 P/T, then our infinite dude is an insta 4-of. Just imagine the following BR Devoid Aggro deck:
4 Hypothetical-2/1-with-maybe-Ingest Eldrazi
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Dominator Drone
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Ghostfire Blade
4 Wild Slash
4 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Crater's Claws
Of note, Wasteland Strangler only is actually good in here considering the hypothetical Eldrazi or a low cost burn spell that exiles, but it's just an illustration of how amazing Endless One may become in Standard if the gears turn in his favor.
in order for creatures to see play they have to offer something more than vanilla 1/1 for 1 or 2/2 for 2 and so on......an X/X creature for X and nothing else simply isn't good enough...even if it is always on curve
it actually gets worse the longer the game goes on
that is not the sign of a good creature
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
- Manite
Normally I would agree. They are really pushing +1/+1 counters theme. Potential is high.