Now that we have seen all 10 guild mechanics, which do you think are the most flavorful, and why? My personal list:
The "eh" tier:
10. Rakdos - Paincast would've been much better, obviously. The whole "race for damage" comes across well, but what is a Rakdos clan member that decides not to Unleash? Level headed?
9. Gruul - While it likely will be a strong mechanic, the only way this makes sense from a flavor viewpoint is if you imagine the discard as a fellow warrior slain in battle.
8. Izzet - Overload isn't quite "weird" enough for my Izzet liking. Just making things Boom-ier isn't absent minded professor or mad scientist.
The "pretty good" tier
7. Simic - Evolving creatures is a good idea, and fits with the "newfound" direction of the guild, away from rampant genetic experimentation. Still, I expected something a little more than "your creatures get bigger".
6. Selesnya - The populate mecalhanic has a nice subtle theme for the Worldmind (all tokens are pretty much faceless clones), but I'm not sure if it rings across the "teamwork" aspect fully.
5. Orzhov - The Orzhov are all about nickel and dining so that part fits. Still, I would've liked to see some form of taxation mechanic instead of the incremental advantage eked out with Extort. (Also, it seems strange that you could Extort a player without them making a decision in the matter.)
4. Golgari - Golgari's ideals are slightly different from last time we visited Ravnica. It eschews the "life is death is life" ideal for a simpler "life can use death" statement. Golgari isn't above cannibalizing the corpses found in the sewers in order to make themselves stronger. Where others might shy upon disrupting the dead, the Golgari realize it is just another phase of existence, or lack thereof. If the dead disagree with their scavenging, they can try to do something about it.
The "nailed it" tier
3. Dimir - The Cipher mechanic really conveys the idea of splinter cell agents carrying messages from one group to another. My only fault is that I would've liked that message to perhaps weaken or degrade in some way. Anyone ever play a game of Telephone?
2. Boros - Aggression + Tactics = Battalion. A perfect example of how a group can use effective tactics to turn the tide in their favor, even against higher odds. It fits well with the Boros "Might Makes Right" attitude.
1. Azorious - On the other side of enforcement is the Law laid down by Blue/White. Detain is an excellent way to show the way Azorious arrests criminals, as well as stalls them from being released back into the system. While the lawmaker aspect was downplayed, which is slightly disappointing, Detain itself is nearly perfect from a flavor standpoint.
What do you guys think? Which ones am I off on? Which mechanics make you feel like part of the guild?
Personally, I'd pop Selesnya up a tier, Izzet up one, Golari and Simic down.
Well, Simic conditionally. If they do something more interesting (This card gains Keyword if it has X +1/+1 counters on it) it'll feel more like an evolution.
Golgari was just bland and missed the mark.
As for Izzet, making things Boomier is totally worthy of the guild. Again though, I wish they had made it more interesting by including other sorts of overload mishaps (like, 2UU target player draws 2 cards, overload 1U).
Dimir is only flavorful due to the word "encode". The "I cast and put it on a creature" mechanic is wide enough to support many types of flavor that you like (Special spells that attach to people's minds, magical war tattoos, etc etc). Its too wide. It's cheating. When you hear cipher, you would usually think that the spell is hidden right? For me, it's a failure for flavor. If only the spell has a cipher cost that rather than casting it, you encode it to a creature then i think that is flavorful.
I think Izzet's fit them. "We have some spells, what if we add more power?" To be fair, their mad science aspect demands so much. This hits the "we experiment via more power" perfectly. When i hear overload, this is what i expect.
Selensya's mob like mentality fits with the mechanic. Teamwork? They never had teamwork, just the numbers. Focus on token highlights their non-focus for individuality.
The rest i agree with what you think. Rakdos mechanic simply sucks flavor-wise.
I think extort should be in "Nailed It" tier. Life leech has always been how WotC has represented Orzhov taxation... you bleed your opponents' coffers dry over time. The mana expenditure represents the effort of sending some thugs with the collection plate. The opponent not being able to refuse the extortion is part of the mafia angle - "an offer you can't refuse".
I disagree about Unleash, it's like saying Detain is a flavor fail because the Azirous don't let people go (evidenced in many flavor texts), or Overload sucks because the Izzet would always overload something if given the choice (overload sucks, but for different reasons).
Other than that, I pretty much agree with you.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
They are all awful except for overload and extort because they interact exclusively with creatures.
To me, it's not a properly designed mechanic for a ravnica guild unless it can be used properly on most card types.
It's like being a wizard in a guild doesn't even affect the types of spells one casts with these horrible mechanics.
So what does that say about Overload? That doesn't interact with creatures, enchantments, lands, planeswalkers, or artifacts, but it's on your good list. The difference between instants and sorceries is slight enough I don't see that qualifying as a broader mechanic. Plus, many of the original Ravnica block keywords are the same, (Replicate, Bloodthirst, Graft, etc.) but you claim they're the standard of excellence you're going by.
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Going in Alphabetical Order here here's how i'd think about them based off RTR
Azorius - Great execution on the detain mechanic, plenty of decent bodies and spells to support it, the charm and the guildmage are perhaps the strongest in RTR, 4/5
Golgari - Decent scavenge support with a overall meh arsenal, some of the best cards in this guild are uncommon, with both charm and the 0 scavenge card being the most potent 3.5/5
Izzet - Overload as a mechanic is well done, there's plenty of cheap, effective support in limited, along with a few bomb rares, IE: Cylonic Rift and Mizzium Mortars outside of limited 3.5/5
Selesnya - Populate was one of those well done, but not supported well outside of limited, it's design seemed limited material for the most part, but some of the best cards of the set are from Selesyna's colors, decent overall, 3/5
Rakdos - The simple, yet fun keyword of unleash was a decent mechanic, it had a few great cards in terms of support IE: Rakdos CacklerCarnival Hellsteed limited wise, overall 2.5/5
Based off what previews we've seen here's the general order for the mechanic wise in Gatecrash
So what does that say about Overload? That doesn't interact with creatures, enchantments, lands, planeswalkers, or artifacts, but it's on your good list. The difference between instants and sorceries is slight enough I don't see that qualifying as a broader mechanic. Plus, many of the original Ravnica block keywords are the same, (Replicate, Bloodthirst, Graft, etc.) but you claim they're the standard of excellence you're going by.
Overload interacts with creatures, and could be put on a creature card. It simply was not.
For example:
"When X enters the battlefield, it deals damage to target opponent equal to the power of target creature you do not control"
With overload.
Replicate is the same way.
I also never said the original mechanics were well designed, just that the current mechanics are awful and ceature centric.
I don't like pure creature design, because I've played pokemon and yugioh and want something different.
If we are talking about flavour only, I think the only one that missed the mark is Overload. While the name sounds Izzet, the effect isn't. The fact that Izzet spells affect everyone except their controller when the guild is supposed to be about crazy scientists that don't care if their experiments blow up in their face is just wrong.
If the Overload cards didn't have the "you don't control" part, it would have been a home run. It would have also lead to more interesting strategic decisions.
Detain-There is some excellent flavor here... spot on for the law.
Battalion-Another home run flavor wise. Fits an army sort of thing very well.
Overload-I personally love this. Bigger and better explosions are the way of the new Izzet.
Unleash-Flavorful in the way of good old suicide Rakdos.
Scavenge-Works wonders flavor wise... very Golgari.
Bloodrush-For the most part, this is incredible. Only part that doesn't make sense flavor wise is the discard part.
Cipher-Incredible. Everything about this is well done.
Populate-Not as flavorful, but it gets the message of more allies across.
Evolve-Seems Simic enough... good one.
Extort-A very cool and very Orzhov mechanic. Draining life seems like the thing those undead coots would enjoy.
I'm very pleased with the mechanics, both flavor and function wise. Wizards did a great job.
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Azorius - I like Detain, it's better than the original Forecast power wise, but both of them have the law/authority flavor to it, although I'd love to see Detain as a counter-based effect, so you can detain things longer base on the # of counters. I also prefer seeing Detain removes target opponent controls from the game temporarily, since it gives a confiscate feeling better.
Boros - I love Battalion, very war-like and creature based as Boros should. Radiant promotes the unity and prejudice of Boros in battle but could potentially affect both sides, which is not like Boros. Battalion is much more powerful as a mechanic also in R/W.
Dimir - Secret agent man with Cipher, I love it. Transmute was a powerful mechanic but it felt more like an Izzet keyword, Cipher on the other hand nails it.
Golgari - Both Dredge and Scavenge works with graveyard, but Dredge clearly has more effect than Scavenge because it's not restricted to buffing creatures. Of course, adding +1/+1 counters create many interesting combos (such as with Devour) but overall still too restrictive. Flavor wise both are suitable.
Gruul - Bloodlust was good flavor wise but not powerful. Bloodrush seems to have more utility but I'm at the moment uncertain of its flavor, only the function.
Izzet - Overload > Replicate flavor wise, because Izzet is all about 'make it big'. While both make certain effect more widespread, Overload has the kaboom feel Replicate doesn't have. Function wise they have similarity, but Overload just feels more 'tidal wave'.
Orzhov - I love both mechanics! Haunt was ghost possessing people and Extort is taxing people, both are flavorful. However, I hope they could expand on the effect of Extort to more than just losing life, maybe there will be more than just life gain/loss to it on other cards. Oddly enough, if they could have Cipher, why not Haunt?
Rakdos - Personally I prefer Hellbent, because it's pretty much "lack of reasoning and full of emotions," but Unleash too has that flavor, albeit still maintains a 'cool head' because of a hand of cards.
Selesnya - Convoke is infinitely better than Populate as the guild keyword, because teamwork is what Selesnya does best. Populate creates token only when you already have a token on the field, and in this set creating tokens worthy of a Populate has been more difficult than the previous.
Simic - I expect creature-based keyword for Simic, Evolve suits its theme, however seems less versatile compare to Graft. Still, until more cards come out, we won't know if Evolve would have more effects (like Unleash denies blocking). There could be cards that trigger whenever a creature evolves.
But as someone pointed out earlier, mechanics in RtR are too creature based, I prefer seeing something that's more universal, maybe Wizard is afraid of making something too versatile or they might be Imbalance? (like Dredge)
As a die-hard Izzet, I really dislike Overload. Yeah, on the surface it looks pretty cool (target ALL the things!), but in practice it's just boring. I used to hate replicate, but after overload I've gained a new appreciation of it.
Replicate captures the flavor of the Izzet more because it allows you to be creative. Compare Electrickery to Pyromatics. Yeah, Electrickery is more efficient, but Pyromatics is more versatile. You can deal a bunch of damage to one creature, or kill multiple creatures, or deal 1 damage to 2 creatures and 2 to another. There are a ton of possible "versions" of pyromatics, while Electrickery only has 2.
Overload is a choice between 1 and 10, while Replicate lets you go to 1, 10, 8, 4.5, 2.37, π, and everything in between.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
But as someone pointed out earlier, mechanics in RtR are too creature based, I prefer seeing something that's more universal, maybe Wizard is afraid of making something too versatile or they might be Imbalance? (like Dredge)
It's simple, really: Ravnica is all about the guilds, which are basically groups of creatures. So naturally, a guild-based set would have more creatures and creature-based mechanics than other sets.
I like the flavor of most mechanics, with the exceptions of Unleash, Bloodrush and Populate. Unleash really only makes sense as a Rakdos mechanic when you do use the token; Bloodrush just doesn't make sense that much now, just like Cycling, Channel and other similar mechanics; lastly, Populate is weird because there is no difference between creature cards and creature tokens from the flavor standpoint. Overall, I'd say that 7 great flavorful mechanics out of 10 is a very good result.
Overload and Cipher look like the best two. I think a problem with having one mechanic per guild is that you can't have everything be mindbogglingly amazing due to the needed quantity.
In terms of new mechanics (not Flashback) I think the last mechanic I actually loved was Proliferate (especially with Infect). This block's mechanics are almost all creature based, which I dislike. From a flavor standpoint they all make some amount of sense, but nowhere near how perfect Proliferate was for Scars block.
Detain: Good flavor and mechanic but not viable in constructed.
Populate: Good flavor, very flimsy in limited because it requires 2 components to work; so-so in constructed.
Overload: A good way to get over hexproof/shroud; otherwise, not very creative or flavorful since it's just a kicker...
Scavenge: Very good flavor and mechanic but I fail to understand why they thought it would be competitive considering all the GY hate...
Unleash: Very good flavor and mechanic but not alot of interactions apart from failure to block. The only constructed viable mechanic.
GTC:
Extort: A bit too early to judge but on the whole, unless you play with recursion, it won't be that good.
Evolve: Awful flavor, it seems nobody seems to understand the difference between Lamarckism and Darwinism... welcome to pokemon 2.0! Viability? Champion of lambholt still isn't seeing play but is superior to the mechanic by a whole lot more. This makes rakdos' unleash look bad...
Cipher: Scavenge made creatures into enchantments and now we get the sorcery/instant variant. This is probably the most viable of all the mechanics in addition to being flavorful. This is better than scavenge in that it doesn't need to hit the GY first and isn't countered via gy removal.
Boros: This ability will probably change standard into aggro vs control style. If you can deal with it with removal/boardwipe, you win; if you can't you lose. Aggro's biggest weakness is overextending and this encourages it. The same goes for simic although they have more control tools than boros.
Gruul: This could be one of the best abilities by far for what it stands: it's a cycle effect without draw. Good flavor and style. I think the effect is relevant to the power/toughness of the discarded creature rather than the land count. This ability allows you to play conservatively while still being able to pose a threat.
My 2c
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Dimir - Cipher, Mechanically 9/10 Flavorfully 6/10
This mechanic is infinitely the most promising to me, I can just see so many really interesting interactions with this mechanic, and the fact that it can function in a manner that conforms to Dimir's mill focus also really appeals to me. Although I admit that the mechanic doesn't seem TOO flavorful to me, I mean, encryption is totally Dimir, but encrypting a creature seems flavorfully... off.
Azorius - Detain, Mechanically 8/10 Flavorfully 9/10
This mechanic really identifies flavorfully and mechanically with Azorius, my only problem with it was the limitations it had, since overall it tended to be followed by "target creature." This creature limitation on so many of the Detain cards REALLY put me off, but generally the mechanic itself isn't to blame, so I cut it some slack there mechanically. So yeah, flavorfully fantastic, and mechanically great, but not perfect.
Orzhov - Extort, Mechanically 7/10 Flavorfully 7/10
So I really like Extort, but I feel like the mechanic itself could have been improved slightly (personally I would have preferred it to trigger on opponent's spells) but it generally fits Orzhov quite well as a mechanic. The Orzhov are all about Extortion, so the mechanic is flavorfully sufficient, but I feel that the mechanics of a more flavorful Extort would also break the keyword, which causes the flavor to suffer a bit in my opinion. This is higher up on my favorites list because of the potential for a Sphere of Safety Enchantment deck with an Extort enchantment of some sort, really.
Simic - Evolve, Mechanically 8/10 Flavorfully 8/10
This mechanic is pretty simple, and I feel like the failures with Unleash won't be repeated here considering Fathom Sage's interesting interaction with +1/+1 counters. So Mechanically I see a lot of potential here, and it seems like Wizards will go a ways towards fulfilling that potential. Its also pretty standardly flavorful, the creatures evolve artificially alongside it's allies, which is an important part of Simic.
Izzet - Overload, Mechanically 7/10 Flavorfully 8/10
This is a great mechanic in that its implemented adequately, Cyclonic Rift, Mizzium Mortars, Street Spasm, these are all great examples of Overload cards, so I'm not disappointed with how the mechanic was implemented, and the flavor is totally Izzet, not because of the "go bigger!" so much as the aspect of the experimentation leading to... volatile results. So yeah, I really like Overload quite a bit, though it's implementation is only solid without being particularly great.
Golgari - Scavenge, Mechanically 6/10 Flavorfully 8/10
Scavenge is really cool, and the incorporation of death into life as a cycle is pretty great, though I have to say that Modular feels like a better Golgari mechanic. Scavenge is by no means bad though, reuse of corpses for the living just really fits the Golgari theme, its a pretty linear process through Scavenge though, which is my real problem. Mechanically its pretty decent, not spectacular, again, but solid, its more of a perk than a real mechanic, its nice to have on cards but noone is too preoccupied with the aspect of Scavenging.
Selesnya - Populate, Mechanically 10/10 Flavorfully 5/10
Populate is nice, its a very powerful and very well implemented mechanic, though I'm really not too into it's flavor. Selesnya seems much more recruitment heavy and tokens represent that, but not as strongly through Populate as I might have liked, it really feels more like a cell division mechanic than a recruit-to-our-dogma mechanic. Seriously though, it was implemented fantastically, the power level feels pretty right for a Standard viable mechanic.
Boros - Battalion, Mechanically 7/10 Flavorfully 7/10
Mm, this one is interesting, the card that was spoiled with this mechanic makes me like it. I like the thought of this high ranking officer leading her troops into battle and being empowered by that. If this Lightning Helix-esque effect is on smaller creatures I might like it less, as having more soldiers equating to a free Lightning Helix feels weird. Generally its a solid mechanic, it fits Boros well, it has promise as far as implementation, but also plenty of room for error that makes me wary. Anywho, pretty much a totally solid mechanic, not exceptional, not bad, passable and possibly pretty good based on how WotC handles it's implementation.
Gruul - Bloodrush, Mechanically 8/10 Flavorfully 6/10
Eh, I like this mechanically as it allows aggressive decks to retain value on low costed creatures in the later portions of the game should it ever reach that point. That being said, I really don't care too much for the flavor of it, in a textbook sense its pretty Gruul but not really spiritually. Are the Gruul devouring each other for strength? I mean, it seems kind of Gruul, but moreso Jund. I mean, I see the Gruul in it, but I just don't FEEL the Gruul in it.
Rakdos - Unleash, Mechanically 7/10 Flavorfully 3/10
I really don't like Unleash, I think it was implemented awfully, the mechanic isn't COMPLETELY one dimensional, but I always like to see cards like Chaos Imps, cards that interact with the mechanic as well as the mechanic interacting with the card. Y'know, something like Chaos Imps. The mechanic is also flavorfully weak. I really don't like Unleash's flavor, sure I KIND OF get it, but like someone posted earlier, what does this mechanic make the non-Unleashed Rakdos members? Level headed? Half of the mechanic kind of devalues the other half. I generally don't care for Unleash at all, I think while not ultra-one-dimensional, the implementation is just... eh and the flavor is eh-er.
Detain - Mechanic 1/5 ; Flavor 2/5
* Has too much the feeling of "tap" and "temporary exile", mechanics that already exist in the game and are much more natural to the game because they mess with the cards in the table by changing zones and tapping. Felt like they were creating a keyword for the sake of it and made something worse then what already exist.
* The Azorius's "law court feeling" capture the blend of white and blue better then the "police feeling". Detain's execution kind capitalize on the later and i don't like it.
Overload - Mechanic 3/5, Flavor 4/5
* Narrower kind of kicker, but unlike Detain, it makes the game's mechanic better because i personally think kicker is too wide open. It has space for "overload target spell" effects, unlike kicker.
* I like the feeling of non-linearity of the keyword, which is really izzety. The spell is x and suddenly it is y. I would have appreciated the crazy effect such as overloading damaging you too or overload for cheaper cost (such as in "target player draw x cards").
Unleash - Mechanic 3/5; Flavor 4/5
* Unleash is better then most people think, imo. Most of the time I play Rakdos Cackler and Gore-House Chain Walker and although i unleash then most of the times, sometimes i won because i could use then to chump block. Unleash really opened lines of play that a common "can't block" wouldn't. When a mechanic open new lines of play for typical decks, i believe it is successful.
* Unleash brings the feeling of Rakdos guild. And the feeling is "rakdos is a guild of crazies, but some times they go party and gets insane". Hellbent evoked that feeling in a better way by making everything normal or hellbent together, but unleash do the trick too. "Some times the Cackler is just ordinary newbie devil but when rakdos go crazy the cackler fights like a bear".
Detain-There is some excellent flavor here... spot on for the law.
Battalion-Another home run flavor wise. Fits an army sort of thing very well.
Overload-I personally love this. Bigger and better explosions are the way of the new Izzet.
Unleash-Flavorful in the way of good old suicide Rakdos.
Scavenge-Works wonders flavor wise... very Golgari.
Bloodrush-For the most part, this is incredible. Only part that doesn't make sense flavor wise is the discard part.
Cipher-Incredible. Everything about this is well done.
Populate-Not as flavorful, but it gets the message of more allies across.
Evolve-Seems Simic enough... good one.
Extort-A very cool and very Orzhov mechanic. Draining life seems like the thing those undead coots would enjoy.
I'm very pleased with the mechanics, both flavor and function wise. Wizards did a great job.
I generally agree with these, except that Golgari is a flavor fail because it should not exile the creatures. Would it be too overpowered if you instead put the creature to the bottom of your library? Because that is the Cycle of Life.
And the flavor behind blood rush totally makes sense. The concept of casting spells is you have this power...And the the power you have with a creature with blood rush is that you can summon it to your aid, or you can summon its rage to bolster the strength of your other creatures.
I generally agree with these, except that Golgari is a flavor fail because it should not exile the creatures. Would it be too overpowered if you instead put the creature to the bottom of your library? Because that is the Cycle of Life.
And the flavor behind blood rush totally makes sense. The concept of casting spells is you have this power...And the the power you have with a creature with blood rush is that you can summon it to your aid, or you can summon its rage to bolster the strength of your other creatures.
The problem with putting them back into the library creates power level issues. Then people could go: Play Lotleth troll, next turn chuck Dreg Mangler for troll, scavange onto the troll, and swing. Troll becomes a 6/6 and it cost you 0 cards (since the card it would cost you was recycled). While it may not seem bad, it can cause some issues and wizards was VERY careful to not create Dredge 2.0
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I generally agree with these, except that Golgari is a flavor fail because it should not exile the creatures. Would it be too overpowered if you instead put the creature to the bottom of your library? Because that is the Cycle of Life.
And the flavor behind blood rush totally makes sense. The concept of casting spells is you have this power...And the the power you have with a creature with blood rush is that you can summon it to your aid, or you can summon its rage to bolster the strength of your other creatures.
Felt the same about the Golgari, but it makes sense. I mean, if you rip the claws off a mangler and put them on a creature that corpse would become kinda useless reanimation wise.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
The problem with putting them back into the library creates power level issues. Then people could go: Play Lotleth troll, next turn chuck Dreg Mangler for troll, scavange onto the troll, and swing. Troll becomes a 6/6 and it cost you 0 cards (since the card it would cost you was recycled). While it may not seem bad, it can cause some issues and wizards was VERY careful to not create Dredge 2.0
That's not how putting cards on the bottom of your library works. Functionally, that's nearly identical unless you can tutor the target from your library. Or in very rare cases where you draw through your library or shuffle, then happen to draw the recycled card. In which case, you're still drawing said card instead of something potentially better or potentially worse, so it's not really a power level issue.
If putting cards from graveyard to library worked as it looks like you imply, Elixir of Immortality would be an auto 4-of everywhere.
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At least most/all of the keywords for the new Ravnica block are useful, (except Unleash - it still sucks, lol)... unlike the OG Ravnica block, where there was Replicate and Forecast.
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The "eh" tier:
10. Rakdos - Paincast would've been much better, obviously. The whole "race for damage" comes across well, but what is a Rakdos clan member that decides not to Unleash? Level headed?
9. Gruul - While it likely will be a strong mechanic, the only way this makes sense from a flavor viewpoint is if you imagine the discard as a fellow warrior slain in battle.
8. Izzet - Overload isn't quite "weird" enough for my Izzet liking. Just making things Boom-ier isn't absent minded professor or mad scientist.
The "pretty good" tier
7. Simic - Evolving creatures is a good idea, and fits with the "newfound" direction of the guild, away from rampant genetic experimentation. Still, I expected something a little more than "your creatures get bigger".
6. Selesnya - The populate mecalhanic has a nice subtle theme for the Worldmind (all tokens are pretty much faceless clones), but I'm not sure if it rings across the "teamwork" aspect fully.
5. Orzhov - The Orzhov are all about nickel and dining so that part fits. Still, I would've liked to see some form of taxation mechanic instead of the incremental advantage eked out with Extort. (Also, it seems strange that you could Extort a player without them making a decision in the matter.)
4. Golgari - Golgari's ideals are slightly different from last time we visited Ravnica. It eschews the "life is death is life" ideal for a simpler "life can use death" statement. Golgari isn't above cannibalizing the corpses found in the sewers in order to make themselves stronger. Where others might shy upon disrupting the dead, the Golgari realize it is just another phase of existence, or lack thereof. If the dead disagree with their scavenging, they can try to do something about it.
The "nailed it" tier
3. Dimir - The Cipher mechanic really conveys the idea of splinter cell agents carrying messages from one group to another. My only fault is that I would've liked that message to perhaps weaken or degrade in some way. Anyone ever play a game of Telephone?
2. Boros - Aggression + Tactics = Battalion. A perfect example of how a group can use effective tactics to turn the tide in their favor, even against higher odds. It fits well with the Boros "Might Makes Right" attitude.
1. Azorious - On the other side of enforcement is the Law laid down by Blue/White. Detain is an excellent way to show the way Azorious arrests criminals, as well as stalls them from being released back into the system. While the lawmaker aspect was downplayed, which is slightly disappointing, Detain itself is nearly perfect from a flavor standpoint.
What do you guys think? Which ones am I off on? Which mechanics make you feel like part of the guild?
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Well, Simic conditionally. If they do something more interesting (This card gains Keyword if it has X +1/+1 counters on it) it'll feel more like an evolution.
Golgari was just bland and missed the mark.
As for Izzet, making things Boomier is totally worthy of the guild. Again though, I wish they had made it more interesting by including other sorts of overload mishaps (like, 2UU target player draws 2 cards, overload 1U).
I think Izzet's fit them. "We have some spells, what if we add more power?" To be fair, their mad science aspect demands so much. This hits the "we experiment via more power" perfectly. When i hear overload, this is what i expect.
Selensya's mob like mentality fits with the mechanic. Teamwork? They never had teamwork, just the numbers. Focus on token highlights their non-focus for individuality.
The rest i agree with what you think. Rakdos mechanic simply sucks flavor-wise.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with you.
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To me, it's not a properly designed mechanic for a ravnica guild unless it can be used properly on most card types.
It's like being a wizard in a guild doesn't even affect the types of spells one casts with these horrible mechanics.
So what does that say about Overload? That doesn't interact with creatures, enchantments, lands, planeswalkers, or artifacts, but it's on your good list. The difference between instants and sorceries is slight enough I don't see that qualifying as a broader mechanic. Plus, many of the original Ravnica block keywords are the same, (Replicate, Bloodthirst, Graft, etc.) but you claim they're the standard of excellence you're going by.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Azorius - Great execution on the detain mechanic, plenty of decent bodies and spells to support it, the charm and the guildmage are perhaps the strongest in RTR, 4/5
Golgari - Decent scavenge support with a overall meh arsenal, some of the best cards in this guild are uncommon, with both charm and the 0 scavenge card being the most potent 3.5/5
Izzet - Overload as a mechanic is well done, there's plenty of cheap, effective support in limited, along with a few bomb rares, IE: Cylonic Rift and Mizzium Mortars outside of limited 3.5/5
Selesnya - Populate was one of those well done, but not supported well outside of limited, it's design seemed limited material for the most part, but some of the best cards of the set are from Selesyna's colors, decent overall, 3/5
Rakdos - The simple, yet fun keyword of unleash was a decent mechanic, it had a few great cards in terms of support IE: Rakdos Cackler Carnival Hellsteed limited wise, overall 2.5/5
Based off what previews we've seen here's the general order for the mechanic wise in Gatecrash
1. Dimir
2. Orzhov
3. Simic
4. Gruul
5. Boros
It's just me though that thinks this.
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Overload interacts with creatures, and could be put on a creature card. It simply was not.
For example:
"When X enters the battlefield, it deals damage to target opponent equal to the power of target creature you do not control"
With overload.
Replicate is the same way.
I also never said the original mechanics were well designed, just that the current mechanics are awful and ceature centric.
I don't like pure creature design, because I've played pokemon and yugioh and want something different.
If the Overload cards didn't have the "you don't control" part, it would have been a home run. It would have also lead to more interesting strategic decisions.
Battalion-Another home run flavor wise. Fits an army sort of thing very well.
Overload-I personally love this. Bigger and better explosions are the way of the new Izzet.
Unleash-Flavorful in the way of good old suicide Rakdos.
Scavenge-Works wonders flavor wise... very Golgari.
Bloodrush-For the most part, this is incredible. Only part that doesn't make sense flavor wise is the discard part.
Cipher-Incredible. Everything about this is well done.
Populate-Not as flavorful, but it gets the message of more allies across.
Evolve-Seems Simic enough... good one.
Extort-A very cool and very Orzhov mechanic. Draining life seems like the thing those undead coots would enjoy.
I'm very pleased with the mechanics, both flavor and function wise. Wizards did a great job.
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BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
Boros - I love Battalion, very war-like and creature based as Boros should. Radiant promotes the unity and prejudice of Boros in battle but could potentially affect both sides, which is not like Boros. Battalion is much more powerful as a mechanic also in R/W.
Dimir - Secret agent man with Cipher, I love it. Transmute was a powerful mechanic but it felt more like an Izzet keyword, Cipher on the other hand nails it.
Golgari - Both Dredge and Scavenge works with graveyard, but Dredge clearly has more effect than Scavenge because it's not restricted to buffing creatures. Of course, adding +1/+1 counters create many interesting combos (such as with Devour) but overall still too restrictive. Flavor wise both are suitable.
Gruul - Bloodlust was good flavor wise but not powerful. Bloodrush seems to have more utility but I'm at the moment uncertain of its flavor, only the function.
Izzet - Overload > Replicate flavor wise, because Izzet is all about 'make it big'. While both make certain effect more widespread, Overload has the kaboom feel Replicate doesn't have. Function wise they have similarity, but Overload just feels more 'tidal wave'.
Orzhov - I love both mechanics! Haunt was ghost possessing people and Extort is taxing people, both are flavorful. However, I hope they could expand on the effect of Extort to more than just losing life, maybe there will be more than just life gain/loss to it on other cards. Oddly enough, if they could have Cipher, why not Haunt?
Rakdos - Personally I prefer Hellbent, because it's pretty much "lack of reasoning and full of emotions," but Unleash too has that flavor, albeit still maintains a 'cool head' because of a hand of cards.
Selesnya - Convoke is infinitely better than Populate as the guild keyword, because teamwork is what Selesnya does best. Populate creates token only when you already have a token on the field, and in this set creating tokens worthy of a Populate has been more difficult than the previous.
Simic - I expect creature-based keyword for Simic, Evolve suits its theme, however seems less versatile compare to Graft. Still, until more cards come out, we won't know if Evolve would have more effects (like Unleash denies blocking). There could be cards that trigger whenever a creature evolves.
But as someone pointed out earlier, mechanics in RtR are too creature based, I prefer seeing something that's more universal, maybe Wizard is afraid of making something too versatile or they might be Imbalance? (like Dredge)
Replicate captures the flavor of the Izzet more because it allows you to be creative. Compare Electrickery to Pyromatics. Yeah, Electrickery is more efficient, but Pyromatics is more versatile. You can deal a bunch of damage to one creature, or kill multiple creatures, or deal 1 damage to 2 creatures and 2 to another. There are a ton of possible "versions" of pyromatics, while Electrickery only has 2.
Overload is a choice between 1 and 10, while Replicate lets you go to 1, 10, 8, 4.5, 2.37, π, and everything in between.
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It's simple, really: Ravnica is all about the guilds, which are basically groups of creatures. So naturally, a guild-based set would have more creatures and creature-based mechanics than other sets.
I like the flavor of most mechanics, with the exceptions of Unleash, Bloodrush and Populate. Unleash really only makes sense as a Rakdos mechanic when you do use the token; Bloodrush just doesn't make sense that much now, just like Cycling, Channel and other similar mechanics; lastly, Populate is weird because there is no difference between creature cards and creature tokens from the flavor standpoint. Overall, I'd say that 7 great flavorful mechanics out of 10 is a very good result.
In terms of new mechanics (not Flashback) I think the last mechanic I actually loved was Proliferate (especially with Infect). This block's mechanics are almost all creature based, which I dislike. From a flavor standpoint they all make some amount of sense, but nowhere near how perfect Proliferate was for Scars block.
Detain: Good flavor and mechanic but not viable in constructed.
Populate: Good flavor, very flimsy in limited because it requires 2 components to work; so-so in constructed.
Overload: A good way to get over hexproof/shroud; otherwise, not very creative or flavorful since it's just a kicker...
Scavenge: Very good flavor and mechanic but I fail to understand why they thought it would be competitive considering all the GY hate...
Unleash: Very good flavor and mechanic but not alot of interactions apart from failure to block. The only constructed viable mechanic.
GTC:
Extort: A bit too early to judge but on the whole, unless you play with recursion, it won't be that good.
Evolve: Awful flavor, it seems nobody seems to understand the difference between Lamarckism and Darwinism... welcome to pokemon 2.0! Viability? Champion of lambholt still isn't seeing play but is superior to the mechanic by a whole lot more. This makes rakdos' unleash look bad...
Cipher: Scavenge made creatures into enchantments and now we get the sorcery/instant variant. This is probably the most viable of all the mechanics in addition to being flavorful. This is better than scavenge in that it doesn't need to hit the GY first and isn't countered via gy removal.
Boros: This ability will probably change standard into aggro vs control style. If you can deal with it with removal/boardwipe, you win; if you can't you lose. Aggro's biggest weakness is overextending and this encourages it. The same goes for simic although they have more control tools than boros.
Gruul: This could be one of the best abilities by far for what it stands: it's a cycle effect without draw. Good flavor and style. I think the effect is relevant to the power/toughness of the discarded creature rather than the land count. This ability allows you to play conservatively while still being able to pose a threat.
My 2c
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?
Dimir - Cipher, Mechanically 9/10 Flavorfully 6/10
This mechanic is infinitely the most promising to me, I can just see so many really interesting interactions with this mechanic, and the fact that it can function in a manner that conforms to Dimir's mill focus also really appeals to me. Although I admit that the mechanic doesn't seem TOO flavorful to me, I mean, encryption is totally Dimir, but encrypting a creature seems flavorfully... off.
Azorius - Detain, Mechanically 8/10 Flavorfully 9/10
This mechanic really identifies flavorfully and mechanically with Azorius, my only problem with it was the limitations it had, since overall it tended to be followed by "target creature." This creature limitation on so many of the Detain cards REALLY put me off, but generally the mechanic itself isn't to blame, so I cut it some slack there mechanically. So yeah, flavorfully fantastic, and mechanically great, but not perfect.
Orzhov - Extort, Mechanically 7/10 Flavorfully 7/10
So I really like Extort, but I feel like the mechanic itself could have been improved slightly (personally I would have preferred it to trigger on opponent's spells) but it generally fits Orzhov quite well as a mechanic. The Orzhov are all about Extortion, so the mechanic is flavorfully sufficient, but I feel that the mechanics of a more flavorful Extort would also break the keyword, which causes the flavor to suffer a bit in my opinion. This is higher up on my favorites list because of the potential for a Sphere of Safety Enchantment deck with an Extort enchantment of some sort, really.
Simic - Evolve, Mechanically 8/10 Flavorfully 8/10
This mechanic is pretty simple, and I feel like the failures with Unleash won't be repeated here considering Fathom Sage's interesting interaction with +1/+1 counters. So Mechanically I see a lot of potential here, and it seems like Wizards will go a ways towards fulfilling that potential. Its also pretty standardly flavorful, the creatures evolve artificially alongside it's allies, which is an important part of Simic.
Izzet - Overload, Mechanically 7/10 Flavorfully 8/10
This is a great mechanic in that its implemented adequately, Cyclonic Rift, Mizzium Mortars, Street Spasm, these are all great examples of Overload cards, so I'm not disappointed with how the mechanic was implemented, and the flavor is totally Izzet, not because of the "go bigger!" so much as the aspect of the experimentation leading to... volatile results. So yeah, I really like Overload quite a bit, though it's implementation is only solid without being particularly great.
Golgari - Scavenge, Mechanically 6/10 Flavorfully 8/10
Scavenge is really cool, and the incorporation of death into life as a cycle is pretty great, though I have to say that Modular feels like a better Golgari mechanic. Scavenge is by no means bad though, reuse of corpses for the living just really fits the Golgari theme, its a pretty linear process through Scavenge though, which is my real problem. Mechanically its pretty decent, not spectacular, again, but solid, its more of a perk than a real mechanic, its nice to have on cards but noone is too preoccupied with the aspect of Scavenging.
Selesnya - Populate, Mechanically 10/10 Flavorfully 5/10
Populate is nice, its a very powerful and very well implemented mechanic, though I'm really not too into it's flavor. Selesnya seems much more recruitment heavy and tokens represent that, but not as strongly through Populate as I might have liked, it really feels more like a cell division mechanic than a recruit-to-our-dogma mechanic. Seriously though, it was implemented fantastically, the power level feels pretty right for a Standard viable mechanic.
Boros - Battalion, Mechanically 7/10 Flavorfully 7/10
Mm, this one is interesting, the card that was spoiled with this mechanic makes me like it. I like the thought of this high ranking officer leading her troops into battle and being empowered by that. If this Lightning Helix-esque effect is on smaller creatures I might like it less, as having more soldiers equating to a free Lightning Helix feels weird. Generally its a solid mechanic, it fits Boros well, it has promise as far as implementation, but also plenty of room for error that makes me wary. Anywho, pretty much a totally solid mechanic, not exceptional, not bad, passable and possibly pretty good based on how WotC handles it's implementation.
Gruul - Bloodrush, Mechanically 8/10 Flavorfully 6/10
Eh, I like this mechanically as it allows aggressive decks to retain value on low costed creatures in the later portions of the game should it ever reach that point. That being said, I really don't care too much for the flavor of it, in a textbook sense its pretty Gruul but not really spiritually. Are the Gruul devouring each other for strength? I mean, it seems kind of Gruul, but moreso Jund. I mean, I see the Gruul in it, but I just don't FEEL the Gruul in it.
Rakdos - Unleash, Mechanically 7/10 Flavorfully 3/10
I really don't like Unleash, I think it was implemented awfully, the mechanic isn't COMPLETELY one dimensional, but I always like to see cards like Chaos Imps, cards that interact with the mechanic as well as the mechanic interacting with the card. Y'know, something like Chaos Imps. The mechanic is also flavorfully weak. I really don't like Unleash's flavor, sure I KIND OF get it, but like someone posted earlier, what does this mechanic make the non-Unleashed Rakdos members? Level headed? Half of the mechanic kind of devalues the other half. I generally don't care for Unleash at all, I think while not ultra-one-dimensional, the implementation is just... eh and the flavor is eh-er.
Just my opinion.
Detain - Mechanic 1/5 ; Flavor 2/5
* Has too much the feeling of "tap" and "temporary exile", mechanics that already exist in the game and are much more natural to the game because they mess with the cards in the table by changing zones and tapping. Felt like they were creating a keyword for the sake of it and made something worse then what already exist.
* The Azorius's "law court feeling" capture the blend of white and blue better then the "police feeling". Detain's execution kind capitalize on the later and i don't like it.
Overload - Mechanic 3/5, Flavor 4/5
* Narrower kind of kicker, but unlike Detain, it makes the game's mechanic better because i personally think kicker is too wide open. It has space for "overload target spell" effects, unlike kicker.
* I like the feeling of non-linearity of the keyword, which is really izzety. The spell is x and suddenly it is y. I would have appreciated the crazy effect such as overloading damaging you too or overload for cheaper cost (such as in "target player draw x cards").
Unleash - Mechanic 3/5; Flavor 4/5
* Unleash is better then most people think, imo. Most of the time I play Rakdos Cackler and Gore-House Chain Walker and although i unleash then most of the times, sometimes i won because i could use then to chump block. Unleash really opened lines of play that a common "can't block" wouldn't. When a mechanic open new lines of play for typical decks, i believe it is successful.
* Unleash brings the feeling of Rakdos guild. And the feeling is "rakdos is a guild of crazies, but some times they go party and gets insane". Hellbent evoked that feeling in a better way by making everything normal or hellbent together, but unleash do the trick too. "Some times the Cackler is just ordinary newbie devil but when rakdos go crazy the cackler fights like a bear".
Scavenge - Mechanic 2/5; Flavor 2/5
Populate - Mechanic 5/5; Flavor 5/5
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
I generally agree with these, except that Golgari is a flavor fail because it should not exile the creatures. Would it be too overpowered if you instead put the creature to the bottom of your library? Because that is the Cycle of Life.
And the flavor behind blood rush totally makes sense. The concept of casting spells is you have this power...And the the power you have with a creature with blood rush is that you can summon it to your aid, or you can summon its rage to bolster the strength of your other creatures.
The problem with putting them back into the library creates power level issues. Then people could go: Play Lotleth troll, next turn chuck Dreg Mangler for troll, scavange onto the troll, and swing. Troll becomes a 6/6 and it cost you 0 cards (since the card it would cost you was recycled). While it may not seem bad, it can cause some issues and wizards was VERY careful to not create Dredge 2.0
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Felt the same about the Golgari, but it makes sense. I mean, if you rip the claws off a mangler and put them on a creature that corpse would become kinda useless reanimation wise.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
That's not how putting cards on the bottom of your library works. Functionally, that's nearly identical unless you can tutor the target from your library. Or in very rare cases where you draw through your library or shuffle, then happen to draw the recycled card. In which case, you're still drawing said card instead of something potentially better or potentially worse, so it's not really a power level issue.
If putting cards from graveyard to library worked as it looks like you imply, Elixir of Immortality would be an auto 4-of everywhere.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon