Warleader's Helix 2RW
Instant Uncommon
Warleader's Helix deals 4 damage to target creature or player and you gain 4 life.
---------------------------------
Let the Lightning Helix speculation officially end. This spell seems like a house in limited (same as it's predecessor) but probably doesn't cut it in any constructed decks. Mortars has already proven the value of killing 4 toughness dudes, so maybe it sees some sideboard play as Mortars 5-6 or something, but it still seems a bit slow.
Pretty certain it actually will see competitive play.
Mortars overload is rarely being used, simply because it is hard for most decks to hit triple red.
This is an instant, can kill walkers, can simply go the face and be a an eight lifeswing.
It probably wont see 4 copies in any deck, but neither does mortars.
UWR f.e. would love to play this card, it can finally deal with alot of critters it couldnt deal with before.
Going against a deck with 4 mana open and not knowing if will be a rewind, restoration angel or this card is very hard to play against.
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
Anybody who cries about how it isn't as cost effective as the original officially blows at evaluating cards for Standard
This is true, but I don't think the question is it's cost effectiveness compared to Lightning Helix. The question is it's cost compared to Mizzium Mortars (or even Searing Spear). I'm not sure that Instant speed is worth the extra 2 mana (4 life certainly isn't), or the ability to dome someone with it. That's not counting Mortars overload.
This is going to be very meta dependent. Against Blitz decks, this spell is just too slow, but against mid-range the instant speed starts to become more worthwhile (burning a resto-angel before it even hits you seems decent).
Hmmm, I cannot say I hate this card. Very good for any midrange/control decks capable of running Boros against aggro--eliminating a 4-toughness threat and gaining 4 life against aggro is a huge deal.
But I am not sure if it is any more than a sideboard inclusion. Likely a good one, though.
Spark Trooper is an Aggro card, but this really isn't. It's more of a Midrange or Control removal spell that also gains you about a turn's worth of lifegain (assuming you're not just getting run over).
I think it'll see some play in things like Naya and UWr to compliment Spear as later-game removal.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Sorry red decks! Here's another piece of BS to overcome! Now we are going to go back to not searching for anything else for your colour identity to do.
Well there was land death but we're nerfing that too.
People comparing this to Lightning Helix and shaking their heads should start comparing this to Faith's Fetters and Tendrils of Corruption instead, cards that are actually functionally close to this one. This is a very playable card.
People comparing this to Lightning Helix and shaking their heads should start comparing this to Faith's Fetters and Tendrils of Corruption instead, cards that are actually functionally close to this one. This is a very playable card.
Fetters could deal with any permanent, including troublesome lands. Tendrils was in a format with Teachings and then a format where mono black was a thing and it was clear to 6and 6.
is in a format where for half the mana you can kill the same creatures, and in the decks that want this effect, they want it cheap. You don't want to be playing against mono red or boxblitz or whatever the new aggro deck is and have this stuck in your hand as your getting beat down. The eventual 4 life is not gonna be enough. Just play Mortars do you can kill the creatures you need to kill when you need to kill them.
Fetters could deal with any permanent, including troublesome lands. Tendrils was in a format with Teachings and then a format where mono black was a thing and it was clear to 6and 6.
Yes I can read, thanks. I know there are minor differences between each card. But they all share the same core, the same fundamental ability: they are 4 drops that deal with a threat and gain you back 4 life.
Fetters can hit permanents? True, but i's also a Sorcery while this is an Instant, and this hits players.
Tendrils could be win 5, 6, 7, 9, etc life? True, but it also needed either a format with Teachings/Urborg or a very Black-heavy deck. It also cannot hit players, again.
My point when I brought Fetters and Tendrils up is that paying 4 to deal with a threat and gain 4 life back is still a very sweet deal, and that Warleader's Helix's spot in the curve is the same spot one would play Fetters or Tendrils in, not Searing Spear/Lightning Bolt in, which are the cards Lightning Helix is actually closer to. Just because this is an obvious throwback in Helix because of color, setting, name, ability, etc doesn't mean the cards have the same role.
It just turns out that adding 2 mana, 1 damage and 1 life to Lightning Helix still makes a great card. Just don't try to play this as Lightning Helix. Play Searing Spear at that spot, and then this as a more robust answer/finisher (yes the fact this hits players is very relevant).
Yes I can read, thanks. I know there are minor differences between each card. But they all share the same core, the same fundamental ability: they are 4 drops that deal with a threat and gain you back 4 life.
Fetters can hit permanents? True, but i's also a Sorcery while this is an Instant, and this hits players.
Tendrils could be win 5, 6, 7, 9, etc life? True, but it also needed either a format with Teachings/Urborg or a very Black-heavy deck. It also cannot hit players, again.
My point when I brought Fetters and Tendrils up is that paying 4 to deal with a threat and gain 4 life back is still a very sweet deal, and that Warleader's Helix's spot in the curve is the same spot one would play Fetters or Tendrils in, not Searing Spear/Lightning Bolt in, which are the cards Lightning Helix is actually closer to. Just because this is an obvious throwback in Helix because of color, setting, name, ability, etc doesn't mean the cards have the same role.
It just turns out that adding 2 mana, 1 damage and 1 life to Lightning Helix still makes a great card. Just don't try to play this as Lightning Helix. Play Searing Spear at that spot, and then this as a more robust answer/finisher (yes the fact this hits players is very relevant).
You're looking at the card in an abstract and not accounting for metagame and other available cards. If you're playing an aggro deck what do you play this over? You can only get away with so many four drops. Are you cutting Hellrider? Rampager?
What are you cutting from control our midrange decks? Again, can only have so many 4 drops. Cutting Angel?
You're looking at the card in an abstract and not accounting for metagame and other available cards. If you're playing an aggro deck what do you play this over? You can only get away with so many four drops. Are you cutting Hellrider? Rampager?
What are you cutting from control our midrange decks? Again, can only have so many 4 drops. Cutting Angel?
Standard, since 2-3 years, has been a very erratic format. One week is all it takes for one deck to be the deck to beat, and then during the following week it's not the enemy anymore. Just look at the past few months: Jund was reigning, then URW Flash, then Blitz, then Junk, then Act 2, etc. During PT Gratecrash, Boros Reckoner was THE real deal, and it looked like he would be Thragtusk #2. Then he fell a bit off the radar, decks started cutting him: URW Flash moved away from him and adopted Aurelia, Rewind and Essence Scatter. Now, Reckoner is again being played in URW Flash.
So, a card doesn't need to be a 100% inclusion to be a good card and play a role in the metagame. Loxodon Smiter and Ghor-Clan Rampager are cards, and they are seeing an increasing ammount of play. This card deals with them, for example. During one specific week, it can be correct to play 1-2 copies of this card to have a way to deal with X/4 creatures that isn't burning them twice with Spear/Pillar. Aurelia is one example that is seeing a good ammount of play and this card deals with 1x1. Restoration Angel is going to be the main target, though.
To sum up, no I am not ignoring context. I brought the past up to show that yes, 4 damage + 4 life for 4 mana is NOT an overcosted deal. Whether or not this sees play, and the ammount of play it sees, we are going to wait and see. But the context for this card to be played is there: Restoration Angel is one of the pillars of the format, and this card swiftly deals with it. Plus the other X/4s I mentioned, and many others I didn't bring up.
4 mana for a single target removal spell is much too much, especially since it doesn't even remove everything (anything past 4 toughness survives) and it doesn't exile the creature. In my opinion, this is garbage.
There aren't many reasons to run this over mortars, supreme verdict or even homing lightning. Barring Rhox Faithmender shenanigans, the life gain won't matter because of its horrible cmc.
This is true, but I don't think the question is it's cost effectiveness compared to Lightning Helix. The question is it's cost compared to Mizzium Mortars (or even Searing Spear). I'm not sure that Instant speed is worth the extra 2 mana (4 life certainly isn't), or the ability to dome someone with it. That's not counting Mortars overload.
The biggest difference between MM and new Helix is that Helix can end the game without any help. That is to say it can finish someone off or provide an eight point life swing. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying that Mortars isn't a burn spell and this is.
@ jturphy - trying to solve the metagame knowing roughly half the most recent set seems like a really bad way to evaluate cards
The biggest difference between MM and new Helix is that Helix can end the game without any help. That is to say it can finish someone off or provide an eight point life swing. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying that Mortars isn't a burn spell and this is.
@ jturphy - trying to solve the metagame knowing roughly half the most recent set seems like a really bad way to evaluate cards
If we were trying to solve a metagame after a fall set I might agree. But we have about 1400 out of 1500 cards in that new meta. And even if it changes significantly, what 4 or 5 drops are you ever going to cut to play this in any deck? It's just too expensive for tournament magic.
If it was a lower cmc it would be a rare and if it did anymore damage it would be a rare. I think this is a fine uncommon that is very splashable in limited. Not EVERY card needs to break the current meta game or even be playable it it. I give it a 7/10.
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Luck isn't the only reason I win. Just most of the reason.
If we were trying to solve a metagame after a fall set I might agree. But we have about 1400 out of 1500 cards in that new meta. And even if it changes significantly, what 4 or 5 drops are you ever going to cut to play this in any deck? It's just too expensive for tournament magic.
At this very moment yes
But we know that R&D was aiming to make DGM draft slower and in response increased the speed of RTR and GTC to compensate (or that's what MaRo has told us)
Even if this will be especially apparent in draft this should slowly seep it's way into T2 unless Theros is another fast set
I'm banking on R&D looking to slow things down a bit starting with DGM and I have a feeling Theros will continue this trend
Warleader's Helix could find it's way into serious T2 matches but I'd wager not before INN rotates out (and my other predictions come true)
The step from 3 to 4 mana is one of the biggest in magic, especially for an agro deck. In most agressive decks it's the most difficult slot of all, since you hardly ever have room for more than one 4-off at most.
When was the last time you wanted to tap out turn 4-5 to kill off one creature?
Except;
A. An aggro deck would be sending this to the dome.
B. This is more of a control card than an aggro card.
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EDH WBRKaalia of the VastRBW BChainer, Dementia MasterB Legacy 0Manaless Dredge0 RGoblinsR Standard RBWThe AristocratsWBR
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2RW
Instant Uncommon
Warleader's Helix deals 4 damage to target creature or player and you gain 4 life.
---------------------------------
Let the Lightning Helix speculation officially end. This spell seems like a house in limited (same as it's predecessor) but probably doesn't cut it in any constructed decks. Mortars has already proven the value of killing 4 toughness dudes, so maybe it sees some sideboard play as Mortars 5-6 or something, but it still seems a bit slow.
Mortars overload is rarely being used, simply because it is hard for most decks to hit triple red.
This is an instant, can kill walkers, can simply go the face and be a an eight lifeswing.
It probably wont see 4 copies in any deck, but neither does mortars.
UWR f.e. would love to play this card, it can finally deal with alot of critters it couldnt deal with before.
Going against a deck with 4 mana open and not knowing if will be a rewind, restoration angel or this card is very hard to play against.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Anybody who cries about how it isn't as cost effective as the original officially blows at evaluating cards for Standard
This is true, but I don't think the question is it's cost effectiveness compared to Lightning Helix. The question is it's cost compared to Mizzium Mortars (or even Searing Spear). I'm not sure that Instant speed is worth the extra 2 mana (4 life certainly isn't), or the ability to dome someone with it. That's not counting Mortars overload.
This is going to be very meta dependent. Against Blitz decks, this spell is just too slow, but against mid-range the instant speed starts to become more worthwhile (burning a resto-angel before it even hits you seems decent).
Rivenor @ Miraculous Recovery Signatures is the man!
But I am not sure if it is any more than a sideboard inclusion. Likely a good one, though.
At the very fair CMC of 4 it's probably better for Block constructed and Midrnage/Control decks.
I think it'll see some play in things like Naya and UWr to compliment Spear as later-game removal.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
Well there was land death but we're nerfing that too.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
With Hellrider blocking the 4-hole in Standard for aggro, there is little room for a card like Spark Trooper.
In block, the Trooper actually sees some play.
Fetters could deal with any permanent, including troublesome lands. Tendrils was in a format with Teachings and then a format where mono black was a thing and it was clear to 6and 6.
is in a format where for half the mana you can kill the same creatures, and in the decks that want this effect, they want it cheap. You don't want to be playing against mono red or boxblitz or whatever the new aggro deck is and have this stuck in your hand as your getting beat down. The eventual 4 life is not gonna be enough. Just play Mortars do you can kill the creatures you need to kill when you need to kill them.
How would that work? 3 mana deal 4, gain 4, lose 2?
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Yes I can read, thanks. I know there are minor differences between each card. But they all share the same core, the same fundamental ability: they are 4 drops that deal with a threat and gain you back 4 life.
Fetters can hit permanents? True, but i's also a Sorcery while this is an Instant, and this hits players.
Tendrils could be win 5, 6, 7, 9, etc life? True, but it also needed either a format with Teachings/Urborg or a very Black-heavy deck. It also cannot hit players, again.
My point when I brought Fetters and Tendrils up is that paying 4 to deal with a threat and gain 4 life back is still a very sweet deal, and that Warleader's Helix's spot in the curve is the same spot one would play Fetters or Tendrils in, not Searing Spear/Lightning Bolt in, which are the cards Lightning Helix is actually closer to. Just because this is an obvious throwback in Helix because of color, setting, name, ability, etc doesn't mean the cards have the same role.
It just turns out that adding 2 mana, 1 damage and 1 life to Lightning Helix still makes a great card. Just don't try to play this as Lightning Helix. Play Searing Spear at that spot, and then this as a more robust answer/finisher (yes the fact this hits players is very relevant).
You're looking at the card in an abstract and not accounting for metagame and other available cards. If you're playing an aggro deck what do you play this over? You can only get away with so many four drops. Are you cutting Hellrider? Rampager?
What are you cutting from control our midrange decks? Again, can only have so many 4 drops. Cutting Angel?
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Standard, since 2-3 years, has been a very erratic format. One week is all it takes for one deck to be the deck to beat, and then during the following week it's not the enemy anymore. Just look at the past few months: Jund was reigning, then URW Flash, then Blitz, then Junk, then Act 2, etc. During PT Gratecrash, Boros Reckoner was THE real deal, and it looked like he would be Thragtusk #2. Then he fell a bit off the radar, decks started cutting him: URW Flash moved away from him and adopted Aurelia, Rewind and Essence Scatter. Now, Reckoner is again being played in URW Flash.
So, a card doesn't need to be a 100% inclusion to be a good card and play a role in the metagame. Loxodon Smiter and Ghor-Clan Rampager are cards, and they are seeing an increasing ammount of play. This card deals with them, for example. During one specific week, it can be correct to play 1-2 copies of this card to have a way to deal with X/4 creatures that isn't burning them twice with Spear/Pillar. Aurelia is one example that is seeing a good ammount of play and this card deals with 1x1. Restoration Angel is going to be the main target, though.
To sum up, no I am not ignoring context. I brought the past up to show that yes, 4 damage + 4 life for 4 mana is NOT an overcosted deal. Whether or not this sees play, and the ammount of play it sees, we are going to wait and see. But the context for this card to be played is there: Restoration Angel is one of the pillars of the format, and this card swiftly deals with it. Plus the other X/4s I mentioned, and many others I didn't bring up.
There aren't many reasons to run this over mortars, supreme verdict or even homing lightning. Barring Rhox Faithmender shenanigans, the life gain won't matter because of its horrible cmc.
The biggest difference between MM and new Helix is that Helix can end the game without any help. That is to say it can finish someone off or provide an eight point life swing. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying that Mortars isn't a burn spell and this is.
@ jturphy - trying to solve the metagame knowing roughly half the most recent set seems like a really bad way to evaluate cards
If we were trying to solve a metagame after a fall set I might agree. But we have about 1400 out of 1500 cards in that new meta. And even if it changes significantly, what 4 or 5 drops are you ever going to cut to play this in any deck? It's just too expensive for tournament magic.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
At this very moment yes
But we know that R&D was aiming to make DGM draft slower and in response increased the speed of RTR and GTC to compensate (or that's what MaRo has told us)
Even if this will be especially apparent in draft this should slowly seep it's way into T2 unless Theros is another fast set
I'm banking on R&D looking to slow things down a bit starting with DGM and I have a feeling Theros will continue this trend
Warleader's Helix could find it's way into serious T2 matches but I'd wager not before INN rotates out (and my other predictions come true)
Except;
A. An aggro deck would be sending this to the dome.
B. This is more of a control card than an aggro card.
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR