I had a great idea. Every time we see a Johnny card, I'll add it to a checklist. The goal of the list is to give reference for all the Johnnies for things that need to be done. For instance, break Din of the Fireherd.
Instead of complaining that such and such card doesn't work, or it costs too much; we'll let Johnny speak for us, and just accomplish what's on the checklist. Any deck concepts you come up with should be posted in this thread. Please put the name of the item on the checklist so others can follow where you're headed. Our goal is to solve the best possible use of a card in terms of Standard/Type 2 in an attempt to solve the next possible metagame and diversify the field. Let's get the list started:
Here's Johnny List - Things Johnnies Need to Accomplish
Find any possible combo interactions with Order of Whiteclay.
Build a place for Dusk Urchins to reside that is efficient, dangerous, and nets a massive card advantage.
Maximize the damage that Cragganwick Cremator can deal, without diluting a decklist beyond playabilitiy.
Rough out a decklist to house Deep-Slumber Titan.
Discover cards that make Dramatic Entrance worth playing.
Initialize conversation about a reanimator strategy that includes Woodfall Primus and allows for multiple uses of its CIP ability.
Break Swans of Bryn Argoll.
Discern if there are any possible ways to combo Oona, Queen of the Fae to mill an entire library after one untap step.
Enable a deck that effectively and consistently sets-up a multiple Demigod of Revenge turn.
Construct a deck that turns Din of the Fireherd into a lopsided Jokulhaups.
Discover any possible ways to rebirth Fulminator Mage to allow for a possible armageddon.
Delve into an idea that creates a path of early play and re-use for Grim Poppet.
That's the list of cards I have come up with so far that I feel can be used in innovative decklists. If you have any other card choices that should be listed from Shadowmoor, make a list with it in this thread and I'll try and update your goal to the Johnny list. Here's the first decklist I came up with, just to get the creative juices flowing.
This deck is an attempt to make the Cragganwick Cremator into a beast. There are twelve creatures that discarded will become a Lava Spike. Cragganwick Cremator discarded to himself will Lava Axe a player. The Deep-Slumber Titans can cast Searing Flesh. The final card, Greater Gargadon, will deal nine damage to a player if discarded to a Cragganwick Cremator. In terms of damage potential.
:2mana::symr::symr:Creature - Giant ShamanWhen Cragganwick Cremator comes into play, discard a card at random. If you discard a creature card this way, Cragganwick Cremator deals damage to target player equal to the discarded creature card's power.Each night that his bowl fills, a village mourns.Illus. Jeremy Enecio5/4
this is a random discard. the best way to control that is by having only card left in your hand. what immediately comes to mind is a deck that can either cast multiple spells per turn easily or can discard cards to generate effects.
cards that seem like possible inclusions in a Cremator deck: Tombstalker - casting cost goes down dramatically the more cards you discard. is a Lava Axe if discarded to cremator. Demigod of Revenge - can be re-used out of the graveyard if you topdeck another Demigod later. is a Lava Axe if discarded to cremator. Fiery Temper - madness if discarded. this isn't a great card though. Jaya Ballard, Task Mage - another discard outlet if needed, though a bit fragile. Dread Return - can get discarded creatures back and later on can flashback un-necessary creatures to get back fatties. Magus of the Scroll - another card that works very well if you have only 1 card in hand. Keldon Megaliths - yet another card that works very well if you have only one card in hand. Sygg, River Cutthroat - draws cards for free, almost guaranteed to activate each turn in a deck like this.
thats just what came off the top of my head. BR seems like the most likely color combo for this. i think ultimately the deck has to be a burn deck more than its any creature aggro deck. I particularly like the idea of Setting up a kill where you cast a Cremator discarding Demigod of Revenge and then next turn cast another Demigod and attack for 15.
Actually, I quite like the Demigod of Revenge idea. I was looking of ways to discard him in other decks, like to Oona's Prowler and such. I never even thought about it with the Cremator. Good find.
Dusk Urchin is a great card for mono-black control; it doesn't need some ridiculous combo designed around it.It's a solid creature that has synergy with Scarblade Ritual.
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Interetingly, I think you've already noted (almost accidentally) one of the solutions in your own list:
Order of Whiteclay and Fulminator Mage, they aren't Armegeddon, but they do nicely kill 1 nonbasic a turn when used together.
I also think that a lot of people are overlooking G/R Slumbering Giant
T1-Forest, birds
T2-Mountain, Prodigal Pyromancer
T3-Mountain, Giant. Untap via pyromancer
T4-Vigilant Giant beats face, possibly trampling 11/11 via the green (2/G)(2/G)(2/G) spell.
If Im not limiting myself to standard or any deck building restrictions beyond vintage. Buried alive seems like a no brainer to use with demigod of revenge then tutor for the last one and swing for 20
Dusk Urchins doesnt need a combo it is a very good card and can go into just about any black deck at worst itll replace itself in your hand at best it could give you a full hand
Anything with deep slumber titan I would run either in a RU deck for blues untapping abilities or pyrohemia to consistently keep the titan untapped
As for milling an entire deck with oona but back during future sight previews I found a way to generate 31 mana with spellweaver volute, rite of flame and seething song so if you hit the opponent with traumatize first oona would be able to mill the rest of the deck away but it will require a very tricky mana base. With izzet guildmage out you could get a bit more mana out of the last couple of rites but 46 i think is the absolute highest I was able to generate with that if i cast all the seething songs on one turn and enchanted them with the volute and start chain casting rite of flame
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From MaRo
Every rarity gets good cards. That means that some mythic rares will be tournament quality as will some commons, some uncommons and some rares. My promise wasn't that mythic rares wouldn't get good cards but that we wouldn't limit the good cards to only being mythic rare.
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
The swans are less of a 'break me" and more of a 'wow, i'm strong lol' kind of card... Skred is the top thing that comes to mind with swans. Being in red also puts you in with pyroclasm and sulfurous blast, which are trump cards against faries and elves. Swans have the wonderful flexibility of being able to go white or blue, allowing for diverse deck choices (run white if you really need the wraths on top of that crap, blue if you just want to pack strong cards and answers.) Course the deepslumber titan can make it in here too.
Cragganwick has a chance to make the RG big mana decks. Its rough to free up slots (since the deck already is a house, and i'm sure there will be other must adds...), but being paired with greater gargadons, siege gangs, cloudthreshers and the like certainly makes him strong to start. He could also go into a giants deck, that would speed out a stinkdrinker, then drop changeling giants, then this guy, and fling a sunrise soveriegn or hamletback goliath at the other guy... not optimal, but if you don't want him in a totally gimp deck, that is what there is.
While we are talking about RG big mana, woodfall primus could be hardcast by the deck, leting it be a straight forward house you have to deal with twice.
Edit: I'm also seeing a combo here: Devoted druid (0/2 for 1G, taps for a green, untap it by adding a -1/-1 counter), utopia vow, and the merfolk that has (U,Q: move a counter from something to something). If you get everything out, you can machine gun down the other side, and get unlimited green mana for a turn (by holding the counters on the stack so you can just keep moving and untapping)... If you convert that to U or B, you can have your oona, but i think a burn spell to the face is just as good.
Maximize the damage that Cragganwick Cremator can deal, without diluting a decklist beyond playabilitiy.
Break Swans of Bryn Argoll.
Enable a deck that effectively and consistently sets-up a multiple Demigod of Revenge turn.
cragganwick can easily deal 26, check my "26 damage FTW?" deck in the dfc area.
swans has been added to some peoples mana gambit (aka assualt/crusher combo) decks so they can draw through the whole deck in seconds and get all the needed combo peices.
mana accel, oona's prowler and dakmor salvage should do the trick. oh and throw in street wraith and mishra's bauble for consistantcy
Grim Poppet machine gun: lots of green mana producing elves + spring leaf drum, so you have a faster than average mana base, grim poppet + torture =tons and tons of -1/-1 counters sprayed all over your opponents creatures.
There is one thing I don't like about Oona...you can't mill out artifacts or lands. So a combo of 2x Urborg Elf and Intruder Alarm may not be good enough since you could be stuck with a land on top or choose the wrong color. It would be nice if there was a way to color cards in libraries so you could always get a hit.
I am kind of disappointed with Oona. You really need to hit a large number so they are left with just lands.
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Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
Thopter allows quick use of spring leaf drum, excel the speed to play Deep Slumber. Use Mogg, Power of Fire, Needle, Maybe throw in the burn spell that 2:symbrg: 3 damage to flying if green was payed, 3 to non if red was paid... use mirror to turn thopters and moggs into 7/7, or turn everything to birds, mad draw.
Turn 1: Mountain pass. Turn2: Plains, Keldon Maruders (opp. 19) Turn3: Plains, Attack(16), Order of Whiteclay Turn 4: Maruaders Die (15), Attack with Whiteclay (14) Q, Bring back Maruders (13) Rinse Wash Repeat.
2. Dusk Urchins + Scarscale Ritual Turn1: Swamp, Pass. Turn2: Island, Hold for Permission Turn3: Swamp, Dusk Urchins, Prepare for block Turn 4, dusk Urchins (-1) attack (Opp 19) If blocked, draw 2. If not Play Ritual Draw 5)
3. You did it For me. Turn 1: Mountain, Mogg Fanatic Turn 2: Mountain, Keldon Marauders, (opp, 19), attack, (18) Turn 3: Mountain, Ashenmoor Gouger, attack, (14) Turn 4: Marauder dies, (13), play Cragganwick Cremator -> Discarding Greater Gargadon, (4) , attack, (-1), activate Mogg Fanatic, (-2)
Deck's Basis Idea is to Drop a Heavyweights and Mercy Killing it, to net you 8 Elf Tokens, Drop Titan and Make more tokens. Your Original titan Can Stay Asleep, Activate Witch to give all blocked Creatures +1Trample HOLD Priority, And Mirrorweave into titan, all your lovely tokens become 8/7 tramplers on or Around Turn 7
Sample of Game Play.
Turn1: Mountain, Tattermunge Maniac
Turn2: Forest, Tattermunge Witch (Opp 18)
Turn 3: Mountain, (16)
Turn 4: Amiptheater, Heavyweights, Let Maniac Die
Turn 5: Mountain, Sac your Own Heavyweights to Mercy Killing,
Turn 6: Drop Slumbering
turn 7: Brushland, Manamorphose into a Mirrorweave Activation, Use Forest And Mountain to Activate Witch holding Priority, Cast Weave With Morphose Mana+brushland+Ampitheater. Swing with a buncha Weaved Titans, Any blockers = Auto Untap+Trample Damage (thanks to your Witch's Previous Activation)
Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
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Any Mana Excell, + Dramatic Entrance To drop Reaper King!
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Instead of complaining that such and such card doesn't work, or it costs too much; we'll let Johnny speak for us, and just accomplish what's on the checklist. Any deck concepts you come up with should be posted in this thread. Please put the name of the item on the checklist so others can follow where you're headed. Our goal is to solve the best possible use of a card in terms of Standard/Type 2 in an attempt to solve the next possible metagame and diversify the field. Let's get the list started:
Here's Johnny List - Things Johnnies Need to Accomplish
04 Mogg Fanatic
04 Greater Gargadon
04 Keldon Marauders
04 Countryside Crusher
04 Ashenmoor Gouger
04 Cragganwick Cremator
02 Deep-Slumber Titan
04 Rift Bolt
04 Incinerate
04 Sulfurous Blast
Lands
15 Mountain
04 Mutavault
02 Ghitu Encampment
01 Keldon Megaliths
This deck is an attempt to make the Cragganwick Cremator into a beast. There are twelve creatures that discarded will become a Lava Spike. Cragganwick Cremator discarded to himself will Lava Axe a player. The Deep-Slumber Titans can cast Searing Flesh. The final card, Greater Gargadon, will deal nine damage to a player if discarded to a Cragganwick Cremator. In terms of damage potential.
Turn 1: Mountain, Mogg Fanatic
Turn 2: Mountain, Keldon Marauders, Opponent 19, attack, Opponent 18
Turn 3: Mountain, Ashenmoor Gouger, attack, Opponent 14
Turn 4: Marauder dies, Opponent 13, play Cragganwick Cremator -> Discarding Greater Gargadon, Opponent 4, attack, Opponent -1, activate Mogg Fanatic, Opponent -2
Get your Johnny engine started and lets solve some cards.
:2mana::symr::symr:Creature - Giant ShamanWhen Cragganwick Cremator comes into play, discard a card at random. If you discard a creature card this way, Cragganwick Cremator deals damage to target player equal to the discarded creature card's power.Each night that his bowl fills, a village mourns.Illus. Jeremy Enecio5/4
this is a random discard. the best way to control that is by having only card left in your hand. what immediately comes to mind is a deck that can either cast multiple spells per turn easily or can discard cards to generate effects.
cards that seem like possible inclusions in a Cremator deck:
Tombstalker - casting cost goes down dramatically the more cards you discard. is a Lava Axe if discarded to cremator.
Demigod of Revenge - can be re-used out of the graveyard if you topdeck another Demigod later. is a Lava Axe if discarded to cremator.
Fiery Temper - madness if discarded. this isn't a great card though.
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage - another discard outlet if needed, though a bit fragile.
Dread Return - can get discarded creatures back and later on can flashback un-necessary creatures to get back fatties.
Magus of the Scroll - another card that works very well if you have only 1 card in hand.
Keldon Megaliths - yet another card that works very well if you have only one card in hand.
Sygg, River Cutthroat - draws cards for free, almost guaranteed to activate each turn in a deck like this.
thats just what came off the top of my head. BR seems like the most likely color combo for this. i think ultimately the deck has to be a burn deck more than its any creature aggro deck. I particularly like the idea of Setting up a kill where you cast a Cremator discarding Demigod of Revenge and then next turn cast another Demigod and attack for 15.
Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded.
http://www.twitter.com/Dr_Jeebus - Follow me on Twitter!
Check out www.mtgbrodeals.com for daily content from the brothers of Mu Tau Gamma!
Order of Whiteclay and Fulminator Mage, they aren't Armegeddon, but they do nicely kill 1 nonbasic a turn when used together.
I also think that a lot of people are overlooking G/R Slumbering Giant
T1-Forest, birds
T2-Mountain, Prodigal Pyromancer
T3-Mountain, Giant. Untap via pyromancer
T4-Vigilant Giant beats face, possibly trampling 11/11 via the green (2/G)(2/G)(2/G) spell.
Dusk Urchins doesnt need a combo it is a very good card and can go into just about any black deck at worst itll replace itself in your hand at best it could give you a full hand
Anything with deep slumber titan I would run either in a RU deck for blues untapping abilities or pyrohemia to consistently keep the titan untapped
As for milling an entire deck with oona but back during future sight previews I found a way to generate 31 mana with spellweaver volute, rite of flame and seething song so if you hit the opponent with traumatize first oona would be able to mill the rest of the deck away but it will require a very tricky mana base. With izzet guildmage out you could get a bit more mana out of the last couple of rites but 46 i think is the absolute highest I was able to generate with that if i cast all the seething songs on one turn and enchanted them with the volute and start chain casting rite of flame
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
Cragganwick has a chance to make the RG big mana decks. Its rough to free up slots (since the deck already is a house, and i'm sure there will be other must adds...), but being paired with greater gargadons, siege gangs, cloudthreshers and the like certainly makes him strong to start. He could also go into a giants deck, that would speed out a stinkdrinker, then drop changeling giants, then this guy, and fling a sunrise soveriegn or hamletback goliath at the other guy... not optimal, but if you don't want him in a totally gimp deck, that is what there is.
While we are talking about RG big mana, woodfall primus could be hardcast by the deck, leting it be a straight forward house you have to deal with twice.
Edit: I'm also seeing a combo here: Devoted druid (0/2 for 1G, taps for a green, untap it by adding a -1/-1 counter), utopia vow, and the merfolk that has (U,Q: move a counter from something to something). If you get everything out, you can machine gun down the other side, and get unlimited green mana for a turn (by holding the counters on the stack so you can just keep moving and untapping)... If you convert that to U or B, you can have your oona, but i think a burn spell to the face is just as good.
1) High Tide + Palinchron to make infinite mana.
2) Intruder Alarm + Silver Myr + Shrieking Drake + Rosheen Meanderer to make infinite mana (just for the X of Oona).
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
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cragganwick can easily deal 26, check my "26 damage FTW?" deck in the dfc area.
swans has been added to some peoples mana gambit (aka assualt/crusher combo) decks so they can draw through the whole deck in seconds and get all the needed combo peices.
mana accel, oona's prowler and dakmor salvage should do the trick. oh and throw in street wraith and mishra's bauble for consistantcy
I am kind of disappointed with Oona. You really need to hit a large number so they are left with just lands.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
Did you read what the card does?
Or, just look at the pic in my signature.
4 Ancient Amphitheater
12 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Deep Slumber Titan
3 Ornithopter
2 Swans of Brynn Agroll
3 Pyrohemia
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Power of Fire
4 Manamorphose
4 Redeem the Lost
3 Crib Swap
3 Graceful Reprieve
2 Mirrorweave
Thopter allows quick use of spring leaf drum, excel the speed to play Deep Slumber. Use Mogg, Power of Fire, Needle, Maybe throw in the burn spell that 2:symbrg: 3 damage to flying if green was payed, 3 to non if red was paid... use mirror to turn thopters and moggs into 7/7, or turn everything to birds, mad draw.
Turn 1: Mountain pass.
Turn2: Plains, Keldon Maruders (opp. 19)
Turn3: Plains, Attack(16), Order of Whiteclay
Turn 4: Maruaders Die (15), Attack with Whiteclay (14) Q, Bring back Maruders (13)
Rinse Wash Repeat.
2. Dusk Urchins + Scarscale Ritual
Turn1: Swamp, Pass.
Turn2: Island, Hold for Permission
Turn3: Swamp, Dusk Urchins, Prepare for block
Turn 4, dusk Urchins (-1) attack (Opp 19) If blocked, draw 2. If not Play Ritual Draw 5)
3. You did it For me.
Turn 1: Mountain, Mogg Fanatic
Turn 2: Mountain, Keldon Marauders, (opp, 19), attack, (18)
Turn 3: Mountain, Ashenmoor Gouger, attack, (14)
Turn 4: Marauder dies, (13), play Cragganwick Cremator -> Discarding Greater Gargadon, (4) , attack, (-1), activate Mogg Fanatic, (-2)
4.Decklist Attached (See Slumbering Death)
3 Ancient Amiptheater
7 Mountain
6 Plains
2 Forest
1 Brushland
1 Gemstone Mine
4 Tattermunge Witch
4 Tattermunge Maniac
3 Deep-Slumber Titan
3 Mogg War Marshall
2 Stinkdrinker Daredevil
1 Rhys The Redeemed
1 Boldwyr Heavyweights
1 Brighthearth Banneret
2 Dryad Arbor
3 Safewright Quest
4 Mercy Killing
2 Mirrorweave
4 Chromatic Star
3 Prismatic Lens
Deck's Basis Idea is to Drop a Heavyweights and Mercy Killing it, to net you 8 Elf Tokens, Drop Titan and Make more tokens. Your Original titan Can Stay Asleep, Activate Witch to give all blocked Creatures +1Trample HOLD Priority, And Mirrorweave into titan, all your lovely tokens become 8/7 tramplers on or Around Turn 7
Sample of Game Play.
Turn1: Mountain, Tattermunge Maniac
Turn2: Forest, Tattermunge Witch (Opp 18)
Turn 3: Mountain, (16)
Turn 4: Amiptheater, Heavyweights, Let Maniac Die
Turn 5: Mountain, Sac your Own Heavyweights to Mercy Killing,
Turn 6: Drop Slumbering
turn 7: Brushland, Manamorphose into a Mirrorweave Activation, Use Forest And Mountain to Activate Witch holding Priority, Cast Weave With Morphose Mana+brushland+Ampitheater. Swing with a buncha Weaved Titans, Any blockers = Auto Untap+Trample Damage (thanks to your Witch's Previous Activation)
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists