The deck provides consistent threats, once it gets going, and plays as nice or as brutal as you please. The biggest problem is getting out threats in a timely manner.
I usually start pulling splicers out turn three or four. Not too bad in my multiplayer meta, but I'd like to close the gap a little bit.
If it would mean Wizards has access to the Golden Legal Army of Disney and could slay the Reserved List, I for one would welcome our new rodent overlords.
This card also has the distinction of being my least favorite art on a card in the set thus far,... he looks... Out of place to say the least. His face seems to say: "I'm only wearing this outfit because if I don't Niv will eat my family."
Well, you clearly need mana acceleration of some sort here. It strikes me that you really want to be flopping all your Splicers on the table hard and fast here. Grand Architect? Tangleroot? Aluren / Recycle? (Not that that's going to get too many of the splicers out quickly) Descendants' Path?
TBH, I think Descendants' Path might be worth a shot here. You'd likely need to ditch the non "Artificer"s, throw in some Paradox Hazes... but it'd be a crazy fun deck.
First and foremost let me start by saying that I despise Semblance Anvil. It puts you down 2 cards, and in a deck with 0 draw the effect quickly becomes irrelevant. I've never seen it be anything other than a double mulligan and I don't think I've ever seen someone play one and win as a result. It's extremely bad in fair decks.
Moreover, Rusted Relic is miserable. When a creature is at best a 5/5 for 4, something that isn't even above the curve any more, you know something is wrong. You will rarely play it as a dude on turn 4 and there's just not reason to play it really. Ok, sure, it's a Golem. It gets buffed up. Whoopee. Still hate it.
Titan Forge is fine as a 1-2 of but 3 seems like a bit much. Drawing more than 1 is pretty terrible.
I don't understand what Energy Chamber does for the deck. A +1/+1 counter that you can MAYBE proliferate? That's not worth 3 slots. I mean I get that it can combo with Titan Forge at times, but that seems extremely narrow. Any draw involving multiples of these seems likely to be very bad on average.
Finally, I don't see what the Tron lands bring to the list. Your deck is 3 colors and it doesn't have much in the way of big drops that it needs to power out. Sure, it has a couple, but nothing major. It seems out of place, especially since it's forcing you to run a bunch of Expedition Maps which are quite terrible.
Anyways, my advice would be to add some action to the deck. I'd cut the crap, stick to a normal mana base, and focus on something consistent and powerful. Bump the creature count up to 22 (or more) including the Wing Splicers straight to 4. We want to punch people in the face. Blade Splicer should probably be 4 too since it's so good on 3. Bump up Master and Vital beyond that... all the cheap ones basically.
I'd also get a Helm of Possession in there because I play it in all of my creature-based decks. I mean, you can basically trade your dumb durdles/golems for bombs, so like, having 1 is never a bad idea. I'd probably also get a Spine of Ish Sah in there to handle stuff. You can always Trading Post is away and whatnot, and even toss say Phyrexia's Core in the mana base.
Your deck is fine, but it has too many cards that take too much time to accrue any real value. In multiplayer you typically want a consistently powerful deck that can have some punctuated power in the late game. Titan Forge and Contagion Engine are good examples of that. You want to be playing powerful creatures and draw spells for most of the session; you don't want be durdling around with Expedition Maps, Sembance Anvils, Energy Chambers, etc. Between Vats, Posts and some additional form of draw you should be fine on the card acquisition and recursion department, so you should always be in there with a chance. As long as your endgame comes together in one way or another, you should be pretty set.
Titan Forge is fine as a 1-2 of but 3 seems like a bit much. Drawing more than 1 is pretty terrible.
I don't understand what Energy Chamber does for the deck. A +1/+1 counter that you can MAYBE proliferate? That's not worth 3 slots.
Finally, I don't see what the Tron lands bring to the list. Your deck is 3 colors and it doesn't have much in the way of big drops that it needs to power out. Sure, it has a couple, but nothing major.
Anyways, my advice would be to add some action to the deck. I'd cut the crap, stick to a normal mana base, and focus on something consistent and powerful. Bump the creature count up to 22 (or more) including the Wing Splicers straight to 4. We want to punch people in the face. Blade Splicer should probably be 4 too since it's so good on 3. Bump up Master and Vital beyond that... all the cheap ones basically.
I'd also get a Helm of Possession in there because I play it in all of my creature-based decks. I mean, you can basically trade your dumb durdles/golems for bombs, so like, having 1 is never a bad idea. I'd probably also get a Spine of Ish Sah in there to handle stuff. You can always Trading Post is away and whatnot, and even toss say Phyrexia's Core in the mana base.
I was thinking about pulling out the Trons anyways, so that will definitely be changed.
As for semblance anvil, I like the card, because it lets me make use out of cards that would otherwise be marginally good. (IE a first draw Maul Splicer) to make the others easier to cast. Still, If I end up not liking the card, I'll probably swap it out.
Energy chamber makes it easier to drop those 9/9s, and can be valuable early on boosting a steel overseer or some such.
Love the Idea of Mulldrifter and mimic vat. And the Idea of being able to 'steal any creature that dies for cheap. But what is your opinion on Otherworldy Atlas?
I'd love to get my hands on a Ruins or Yavi Hollow, but it'd be somewhat expensive (love how I'm complaining about a few bucks over the hundreds ive already spent).
I'll be picking up one or two of the helms though.
If it would mean Wizards has access to the Golden Legal Army of Disney and could slay the Reserved List, I for one would welcome our new rodent overlords.
This card also has the distinction of being my least favorite art on a card in the set thus far,... he looks... Out of place to say the least. His face seems to say: "I'm only wearing this outfit because if I don't Niv will eat my family."
It ranks right up there with Mudhole. There is absolutely no reason to ever help your opponents draw cards. The card is slow, clunky, helps everyone else and ultimately brings nothing to the deck itself.
Why did you shave the Vats? It's like the best card in the deck by a fairly big margin and I would rather see 4 than 2. It's almost always going to be better than a creature in my estimation.
It ranks right up there with Mudhole. There is absolutely no reason to ever help your opponents draw cards. The card is slow, clunky, helps everyone else and ultimately brings nothing to the deck itself.
Why did you shave the Vats? It's like the best card in the deck by a fairly big margin and I would rather see 4 than 2. It's almost always going to be better than a creature in my estimation.
Mimic vat is bad in multiples, it ends up being too mana intensive.
Mimic vat is bad in multiples, it ends up being too mana intensive.
Don't agree with that. This isn't a fast deck at all and so getting to 6 mana is perfectly reasonable. Using his mana to make 2 3/3s at EOT figure to be a powerful play on average. It allows him to conserve his resources and commit very little to the board. As long as he has 1-2 creatures and a Vat on the table he can effectively choose to play around sweepers by just making a token and calling it a day. The card also figures to be a high-priority target and I wouldn't be surprised if it got removed. Given how powerful the card is as long as it's out, I don't see a strong reason to shave the numbers down. At worst it draws 2 cards or puts 3/3 into play for 3, but at best you're copying bombs and doing abusive things with them. It seems like drawing this is always better than drawing a creature as long you still have a critical mass of creatures in the deck so that you'll always have 1-2 in play and in hand.
Being mana intensive is only a problem if you're not establishing your board. Even though Wing Splicer costs 4 mana, it's not exactly considered to be a mana intensive card. That's because it's putting a body on the table and so it's not like you're tapping to do "nothing" and players now have free reign to attack you. He will almost always have a Golem maker (or better) on his Vat so it will almost always be expanding his board. The card effectively reads "3: put a 3/3 Golem into play" with some minor additional benefits. I think that you'll always play that card and you'll always play 4 of them.
Vat's value also goes up if he keeps Semblance Anvil in. His cards will have to stretch further and his mana will be much more open. I'd still cut it in a heartbeat since the Anvil is just a horrible Urza's Incubator (which isn't even a good card) but hey, it doesn't hurt the Vat plan if he does keep them.
If it would mean Wizards has access to the Golden Legal Army of Disney and could slay the Reserved List, I for one would welcome our new rodent overlords.
This card also has the distinction of being my least favorite art on a card in the set thus far,... he looks... Out of place to say the least. His face seems to say: "I'm only wearing this outfit because if I don't Niv will eat my family."
Don't agree with that. This isn't a fast deck at all and so getting to 6 mana is perfectly reasonable. Using his mana to make 2 3/3s at EOT figure to be a powerful play on average. It allows him to conserve his resources and commit very little to the board. As long as he has 1-2 creatures and a Vat on the table he can effectively choose to play around sweepers by just making a token and calling it a day. The card also figures to be a high-priority target and I wouldn't be surprised if it got removed. Given how powerful the card is as long as it's out, I don't see a strong reason to shave the numbers down. At worst it draws 2 cards or puts 3/3 into play for 3, but at best you're copying bombs and doing abusive things with them. It seems like drawing this is always better than drawing a creature as long you still have a critical mass of creatures in the deck so that you'll always have 1-2 in play and in hand.
Being mana intensive is only a problem if you're not establishing your board. Even though Wing Splicer costs 4 mana, it's not exactly considered to be a mana intensive card. That's because it's putting a body on the table and so it's not like you're tapping to do "nothing" and players now have free reign to attack you. He will almost always have a Golem maker (or better) on his Vat so it will almost always be expanding his board. The card effectively reads "3: put a 3/3 Golem into play" with some minor additional benefits. I think that you'll always play that card and you'll always play 4 of them.
Vat's value also goes up if he keeps Semblance Anvil in. His cards will have to stretch further and his mana will be much more open. I'd still cut it in a heartbeat since the Anvil is just a horrible Urza's Incubator (which isn't even a good card) but hey, it doesn't hurt the Vat plan if he does keep them.
Spending 3 mana to put a 3/3 into play is not a great play until you are out of other cards entirely. It's not really bringing the deck closer to victory because someone is going to bring out something so much stronger, like a magmatic force as one example.
The lategame mana is better spent on something like rhys the redeemed which actually gets out of hand really fast.
Spending 3 mana to put a 3/3 into play is not a great play until you are out of other cards entirely. It's not really bringing the deck closer to victory because someone is going to bring out something so much stronger, like a magmatic force as one example.
The lategame mana is better spent on something like rhys the redeemed which actually gets out of hand really fast.
I don't think you understand the point that I was making. His deck currently has 24 creatures and the only thing that they do is put a 3/3 Golem into play. My suggestion was to cut 2 of them for 2 Vats since they figure to be better than any of his creatures. Thus, saying that "it doesn't match up well to Magmatic Force" is nonsensical. None of his creatures do. The random durdle that he currently has in his deck is actually much worse. At least if the Force dies he can steal it with Vat and start swinging and pinging with his 7/7. Any creature is pretty terrible against any haymaker.
Spending 3 mana to put a 3/3 into play is not a great play until you are out of other cards entirely. It's not really bringing the deck closer to victory because someone is going to bring out something so much stronger, like a magmatic force as one example.
The lategame mana is better spent on something like rhys the redeemed which actually gets out of hand really fast.
Yes. I understand that my deck is pretty weak. That's not the point of this. My meta runs little to no sweepers. None of the casual players in my area are all that great. The point of this deck was to make use of a lot of the random durdle in my collection in a deck that would be fun to play.
I could make a deck that's pretty broken if I was willing to drop a little cash on a single deck. But it wouldn't be any fun to play others. The best deck among my casual group is a generic U/G splinterfright. Never seen it win before turn 9.
If it would mean Wizards has access to the Golden Legal Army of Disney and could slay the Reserved List, I for one would welcome our new rodent overlords.
This card also has the distinction of being my least favorite art on a card in the set thus far,... he looks... Out of place to say the least. His face seems to say: "I'm only wearing this outfit because if I don't Niv will eat my family."
In my opinion the "put counters on something"-subtheme is misplaced in this deck. I would totally cut out Titan Forge, Contagion Engine and Energy Chamber. If you still want to play with them, then at least use land like Mirrodin's Core or Calciform Pools to benefit more from the profilerate ability.
But i suggest instead using these artifacts, use the ETB abilities of your splicers. Your are running UGW, so you can use all of these budget cards:
These flicker-cards also work with your Mulldrifter and offer good protection against spot removal; Liberate, Otherworldly Journey and Ghostway are good against Mass removal on top of it. If you go this way, why not use Coiling Oracle, its an early blocker with accleration and not to bad with flicker and in late game.
And with these lots of golems, Overrun or something similiar seems like a good finisher. Muraganda Petroglyphs could be brutal here (but prey not to play against another token deck^^)
The petroglyphs won't work because the splicers give the golems an ability ie first strike or flying.
I agree with GibbonMonk I would cut out the counter subtheme and go with something else. As for ramp Solemn Simulacrum is a golem. As is Sundering Titan for a win condition.
I don't think you understand the point that I was making. His deck currently has 24 creatures and the only thing that they do is put a 3/3 Golem into play. My suggestion was to cut 2 of them for 2 Vats since they figure to be better than any of his creatures. Thus, saying that "it doesn't match up well to Magmatic Force" is nonsensical. None of his creatures do. The random durdle that he currently has in his deck is actually much worse. At least if the Force dies he can steal it with Vat and start swinging and pinging with his 7/7. Any creature is pretty terrible against any haymaker.
Playing a vat is not always better than playing a splicer. Vat is very slow and almost useless in some situations, like being stuck on 4 lands.
You play the vat, it can't block, and you have to wait for a creature to die before it can even be used( in a deck with no removal of its own I might add).
You can't necessarily just throw away a creature to get it on vat because it is a high priority target for artifact destruction and you'll be down a splicer effect for nothing in that situation.
Playing 4 vats in a deck with no removal is excessive and unnecessary, especially when you have almost no big vat plays.
The petroglyphs won't work because the splicers give the golems an ability ie first strike or flying.
Oh, my fault, magic can be so tricky
If you want to run 4 mimic vat, might as well bring in sun titan, thragtusk, sundering titan, etc. to really take advantage of it.
From the description of his playgroup and his intention with this deck, these cards are far to hardcore and non-budget.
For a playset of the Vats, why not run budget mass removal like Solar Tide or Harsh Mercy? Both will hit your own creatures, either the olems ot the splicers, but can devastate your opponent and fills the vat.
Playing a vat is not always better than playing a splicer. Vat is very slow and almost useless in some situations, like being stuck on 4 lands.
Everything is relative. You say that the card is slow, but look at his deck. This isn't some highly competitive list that he needs to whip out in a highly competitive meta. The card may be a bit slow, but it's very powerful, and that's perfectly fine in a casual setting. Even though it can be useless in some situations, just like most cards in Magic, I stand by that it figures to be better than creatures 27 and 28 on average (his deck at the time of posting had 28 creatures).
You play the vat, it can't block, and you have to wait for a creature to die before it can even be used( in a deck with no removal of its own I might add).
His deck has plenty of blockers already. If he doesn't have any in his 24+ creature deck then the Vats will be the least of his concerns. Most of them come on turn 2, 4 and 5 though. He has the Blade Splicers at 3 but that's about it. So, the 3 drop is a good place to throw down a card like this. Again, if he's cutting a Sensor Splicer for it, it's not like that could have blocked either.
You can't necessarily just throw away a creature to get it on vat because it is a high priority target for artifact destruction and you'll be down a splicer effect for nothing in that situation.
A) Never said he'd throw away a creature.
B) If he's not losing creatures then he's a in good spot. This is like a tribal deck in the sense that every creature gets better with every additional creature played. If his Vats are empty it means that he's not losing anything and so he's probably winning.
Playing 4 vats in a deck with no removal is excessive and unnecessary, especially when you have almost no big vat plays.
His deck has no big plays period. It's just a solid deck. He doesn't need removal to make the Vats worthwhile either. Again, the OP stated that this isn't a competitive list for a competitive meta. He just wants to pump out some Splicers and hopefully win. Vats helps him get more bodies on the table even if he's not drawing much action. It's a solid card, it's affordable, and it just works well with what he wants to do.
Except that's a completely different deck which costs what? 10 times more than his current one does? Like, do you realize that your aforementioned Rhy is $10.00, Thrag is $10.00, Sun Titan is $4.00? Do you really expect him to drop $96.00 on a Splicer deck? You don't seem to realize that money is a legitimate limitation and not everyone wants to drop hundreds of dollars on casual MP decks. My suggestions are reasonable from a budgetary perspective and make his deck more powerful on average (in my estimation). You can tell him that a deck with Trags and Rhys and whatnot is better, no one questions that for a second, but that doesn't mean that your suggestions are feasible. $40.00 is a lot to drop on some Rhys but the Vat is like what? $1.50? Even if the card is slightly worse, $3.00 vs $40.00 is pretty substantial. I feel like you're completely ignoring price which isn't very useful in practice.
If we aren't trying to make the deck good, then why does it even have a thread?
We're trying to make his deck better. Good is a relative term. His list would get crushed by a Vintage Shops deck but stands up well to a M13 Sealed draft deck. For all you know his deck is already the one to beat. His meta is slow and casual and our goal should be to improve his deck accordingly. It doesn't need to beat turn 4 Magmatic Forces because that's not what people are playing. There are plenty of cheap-yet-good cards in the game, such as Lurking Predators, Mimic Vat, Rhystic Study and more that could all improve his list without raising its cost by a significant amount. Sure, they cost more than some 5 cent Splicers, but it's not unreasonable to think that he'd be willing to drop $20.00 or so to spruce the list up. Yes, we could tell him to remove all of the cards and buy a "really good" $300.00 deck, but that's just not very practical advice.
Nah, there should be zero changes made to the deck. The meta is slow and casual so there is no reason to change it.
Until a specific level of performance is required, no proper help can be given.
As someone who is willing to spend a fair amount even on casual decks, I have some sympathy for your position, but this statement is straight-up nonsense. There's a huge amount of build space between "help my deck beat a meta full of Power 9 and other absurdly powerful plans" and "help make my janky deck somewhat better". If you don't want to help in any case but the first, well, that's your prerogative. Don't pretend it's somehow the only reasonable position to take.
Expedition Map is awesome in Tron decks because once you get the Tron online you instantly recoup the 1+2 it cost to get there. Didn't even cost you a card, either.
Bit of clarity on my earlier statement. Map is a very good card and I own and play a lot of them. That being said, they are terrible in the context of this deck in my opinion. A 3 color Tron deck is going to need to find fixing far more often than it's going to be able to afford to fetch a Tron land. Since the deck has no draw, no ramp, no artifact mana etc. I just don't see how it'll ever hit Tron and cast its spells reliably. Since it also has no real big drops, I don't see the point of Tron period. If we assume that Tron is removed, Map becomes miserable since fetching basic lands with it is clearly horrible. I like the Map in dedicated Post/Tron decks, but this is not a dedicated ramp deck in my mind. The way I saw it is that if he's doing nothing but playing Tron lands, given that his deck only has basics and that it's 3 colors, there's no way that he's casting spells. So yeah, they really seem terrible in this instance.
I'm still putting my deck together because I like the idea as well. Even if your not "focusing" on blinking I still think Venser, the Sojourner deserves two slots. He blinks and gives you more golems, but most people seem to forget about his -1 ability which gives you an alpha strike on at least one opponent.
I'm still putting my deck together because I like the idea as well. Even if your not "focusing" on blinking I still think Venser, the Sojourner deserves two slots. He blinks and gives you more golems, but most people seem to forget about his -1 ability which gives you an alpha strike on at least one opponent.
I thought about it. But I think that $7 is a bit much to spend on a card that I'll personally never use outside of this deck. That being said, I love Venser as a card, and I had a friend who used him to help stall games indefinitely.
All-in-all, got the cards in the mail today. My total came out to about $13 (already had the splicers, trading posts, and most of the other cards) , and the deck plays nicely. All in all, I'm now able to prevent the hate I receive at my table a reasonable amount of the time. Played four 6-player free-for-all games. Won two, and came pretty close both other times (Got shoved out by a group effort twice. Still got everyone down to 2-7 life, though).
If it would mean Wizards has access to the Golden Legal Army of Disney and could slay the Reserved List, I for one would welcome our new rodent overlords.
This card also has the distinction of being my least favorite art on a card in the set thus far,... he looks... Out of place to say the least. His face seems to say: "I'm only wearing this outfit because if I don't Niv will eat my family."
except sensor splicer, all the others splicers in your deck are humans, that opens up posibilities with angel of glory's rise
also check the changeling cards that have the champion ability, changeling berserker, changeling hero, changeling titan
Blink effects like restoration angel, momentary blink
last, I dont like all those artifacts you play, they seem slow and clunky, bad in multiples.
EDIT:
I almost forgot! birthing pod, play that card, is awesome and you could play a few silver bullets against your opponents decks.
As of now, my deck is fairly good, but I end up mulling about 30% of the time.
I would like to see if you could help lower that percent.
6x Plains
8x Forest
3x Kabira Crossroads
6x Island
Creatures (24):
4x Blade Splicer
3x Master Splicer
2x Sensor Splicer
3x Vital Splicer
2x Maul Splicer
4x Wing Splicer
3x Steel Overseer
3x Mulldrifter
2x Titan Forge
3x Contagion Engine
3x Trading Post
3x Energy Chamber
3x Mimic Vat
Enchantments (4):
4x Parallel Lives
The deck provides consistent threats, once it gets going, and plays as nice or as brutal as you please. The biggest problem is getting out threats in a timely manner.
I usually start pulling splicers out turn three or four. Not too bad in my multiplayer meta, but I'd like to close the gap a little bit.
Thanks in advance.
On Mercurial Chemister:
Grand Architect?
Tangleroot?
Aluren / Recycle? (Not that that's going to get too many of the splicers out quickly)
Descendants' Path?
TBH, I think Descendants' Path might be worth a shot here. You'd likely need to ditch the non "Artificer"s, throw in some Paradox Hazes... but it'd be a crazy fun deck.
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Moreover, Rusted Relic is miserable. When a creature is at best a 5/5 for 4, something that isn't even above the curve any more, you know something is wrong. You will rarely play it as a dude on turn 4 and there's just not reason to play it really. Ok, sure, it's a Golem. It gets buffed up. Whoopee. Still hate it.
Titan Forge is fine as a 1-2 of but 3 seems like a bit much. Drawing more than 1 is pretty terrible.
I don't understand what Energy Chamber does for the deck. A +1/+1 counter that you can MAYBE proliferate? That's not worth 3 slots. I mean I get that it can combo with Titan Forge at times, but that seems extremely narrow. Any draw involving multiples of these seems likely to be very bad on average.
Finally, I don't see what the Tron lands bring to the list. Your deck is 3 colors and it doesn't have much in the way of big drops that it needs to power out. Sure, it has a couple, but nothing major. It seems out of place, especially since it's forcing you to run a bunch of Expedition Maps which are quite terrible.
Anyways, my advice would be to add some action to the deck. I'd cut the crap, stick to a normal mana base, and focus on something consistent and powerful. Bump the creature count up to 22 (or more) including the Wing Splicers straight to 4. We want to punch people in the face. Blade Splicer should probably be 4 too since it's so good on 3. Bump up Master and Vital beyond that... all the cheap ones basically.
Moving on, I'd get some draw in there, or at least something that emulates draw. Rhystic Study, Descendants' Path, Harmonize, Jace's Ingenuity, Mulldrifter (good on your Vat), Lurking Predators, Fact or Fiction, Compulsive Research, Thirst for Knowledge... anything. I like playing 6 solid draw spells in my lists. In the dark I'd say Rhystic Studys and a pair of Mulldrifters or something, but hey, I just love Drifters in Vats.
I'd also get a Helm of Possession in there because I play it in all of my creature-based decks. I mean, you can basically trade your dumb durdles/golems for bombs, so like, having 1 is never a bad idea. I'd probably also get a Spine of Ish Sah in there to handle stuff. You can always Trading Post is away and whatnot, and even toss say Phyrexia's Core in the mana base.
Beyond that, Academy Ruins is sweet if you have one. Yavimaya Hollow is always a nice singleton as well.
Your deck is fine, but it has too many cards that take too much time to accrue any real value. In multiplayer you typically want a consistently powerful deck that can have some punctuated power in the late game. Titan Forge and Contagion Engine are good examples of that. You want to be playing powerful creatures and draw spells for most of the session; you don't want be durdling around with Expedition Maps, Sembance Anvils, Energy Chambers, etc. Between Vats, Posts and some additional form of draw you should be fine on the card acquisition and recursion department, so you should always be in there with a chance. As long as your endgame comes together in one way or another, you should be pretty set.
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I was thinking about pulling out the Trons anyways, so that will definitely be changed.
As for semblance anvil, I like the card, because it lets me make use out of cards that would otherwise be marginally good. (IE a first draw Maul Splicer) to make the others easier to cast. Still, If I end up not liking the card, I'll probably swap it out.
Energy chamber makes it easier to drop those 9/9s, and can be valuable early on boosting a steel overseer or some such.
Love the Idea of Mulldrifter and mimic vat. And the Idea of being able to 'steal any creature that dies for cheap. But what is your opinion on Otherworldy Atlas?
I'd love to get my hands on a Ruins or Yavi Hollow, but it'd be somewhat expensive (love how I'm complaining about a few bucks over the hundreds ive already spent).
I'll be picking up one or two of the helms though.
THANKS
On Mercurial Chemister:
It ranks right up there with Mudhole. There is absolutely no reason to ever help your opponents draw cards. The card is slow, clunky, helps everyone else and ultimately brings nothing to the deck itself.
Why did you shave the Vats? It's like the best card in the deck by a fairly big margin and I would rather see 4 than 2. It's almost always going to be better than a creature in my estimation.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Mimic vat is bad in multiples, it ends up being too mana intensive.
Don't agree with that. This isn't a fast deck at all and so getting to 6 mana is perfectly reasonable. Using his mana to make 2 3/3s at EOT figure to be a powerful play on average. It allows him to conserve his resources and commit very little to the board. As long as he has 1-2 creatures and a Vat on the table he can effectively choose to play around sweepers by just making a token and calling it a day. The card also figures to be a high-priority target and I wouldn't be surprised if it got removed. Given how powerful the card is as long as it's out, I don't see a strong reason to shave the numbers down. At worst it draws 2 cards or puts 3/3 into play for 3, but at best you're copying bombs and doing abusive things with them. It seems like drawing this is always better than drawing a creature as long you still have a critical mass of creatures in the deck so that you'll always have 1-2 in play and in hand.
Being mana intensive is only a problem if you're not establishing your board. Even though Wing Splicer costs 4 mana, it's not exactly considered to be a mana intensive card. That's because it's putting a body on the table and so it's not like you're tapping to do "nothing" and players now have free reign to attack you. He will almost always have a Golem maker (or better) on his Vat so it will almost always be expanding his board. The card effectively reads "3: put a 3/3 Golem into play" with some minor additional benefits. I think that you'll always play that card and you'll always play 4 of them.
Vat's value also goes up if he keeps Semblance Anvil in. His cards will have to stretch further and his mana will be much more open. I'd still cut it in a heartbeat since the Anvil is just a horrible Urza's Incubator (which isn't even a good card) but hey, it doesn't hurt the Vat plan if he does keep them.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
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On Mercurial Chemister:
Spending 3 mana to put a 3/3 into play is not a great play until you are out of other cards entirely. It's not really bringing the deck closer to victory because someone is going to bring out something so much stronger, like a magmatic force as one example.
The lategame mana is better spent on something like rhys the redeemed which actually gets out of hand really fast.
I don't think you understand the point that I was making. His deck currently has 24 creatures and the only thing that they do is put a 3/3 Golem into play. My suggestion was to cut 2 of them for 2 Vats since they figure to be better than any of his creatures. Thus, saying that "it doesn't match up well to Magmatic Force" is nonsensical. None of his creatures do. The random durdle that he currently has in his deck is actually much worse. At least if the Force dies he can steal it with Vat and start swinging and pinging with his 7/7. Any creature is pretty terrible against any haymaker.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yes. I understand that my deck is pretty weak. That's not the point of this. My meta runs little to no sweepers. None of the casual players in my area are all that great. The point of this deck was to make use of a lot of the random durdle in my collection in a deck that would be fun to play.
I could make a deck that's pretty broken if I was willing to drop a little cash on a single deck. But it wouldn't be any fun to play others. The best deck among my casual group is a generic U/G splinterfright. Never seen it win before turn 9.
That's how my meta runs.
On Mercurial Chemister:
In my opinion the "put counters on something"-subtheme is misplaced in this deck. I would totally cut out Titan Forge, Contagion Engine and Energy Chamber. If you still want to play with them, then at least use land like Mirrodin's Core or Calciform Pools to benefit more from the profilerate ability.
But i suggest instead using these artifacts, use the ETB abilities of your splicers. Your are running UGW, so you can use all of these budget cards:
These flicker-cards also work with your Mulldrifter and offer good protection against spot removal; Liberate, Otherworldly Journey and Ghostway are good against Mass removal on top of it. If you go this way, why not use Coiling Oracle, its an early blocker with accleration and not to bad with flicker and in late game.
And with these lots of golems, Overrun or something similiar seems like a good finisher.
Muraganda Petroglyphs could be brutal here (but prey not to play against another token deck^^)
I agree with GibbonMonk I would cut out the counter subtheme and go with something else. As for ramp Solemn Simulacrum is a golem. As is Sundering Titan for a win condition.
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
Playing a vat is not always better than playing a splicer. Vat is very slow and almost useless in some situations, like being stuck on 4 lands.
You play the vat, it can't block, and you have to wait for a creature to die before it can even be used( in a deck with no removal of its own I might add).
You can't necessarily just throw away a creature to get it on vat because it is a high priority target for artifact destruction and you'll be down a splicer effect for nothing in that situation.
Playing 4 vats in a deck with no removal is excessive and unnecessary, especially when you have almost no big vat plays.
If you want to run 4 mimic vat, might as well bring in sun titan, thragtusk, sundering titan, etc. to really take advantage of it.
And stop saying durdle.
Oh, my fault, magic can be so tricky
From the description of his playgroup and his intention with this deck, these cards are far to hardcore and non-budget.
For a playset of the Vats, why not run budget mass removal like Solar Tide or Harsh Mercy? Both will hit your own creatures, either the olems ot the splicers, but can devastate your opponent and fills the vat.
Everything is relative. You say that the card is slow, but look at his deck. This isn't some highly competitive list that he needs to whip out in a highly competitive meta. The card may be a bit slow, but it's very powerful, and that's perfectly fine in a casual setting. Even though it can be useless in some situations, just like most cards in Magic, I stand by that it figures to be better than creatures 27 and 28 on average (his deck at the time of posting had 28 creatures).
His deck has plenty of blockers already. If he doesn't have any in his 24+ creature deck then the Vats will be the least of his concerns. Most of them come on turn 2, 4 and 5 though. He has the Blade Splicers at 3 but that's about it. So, the 3 drop is a good place to throw down a card like this. Again, if he's cutting a Sensor Splicer for it, it's not like that could have blocked either.
A) Never said he'd throw away a creature.
B) If he's not losing creatures then he's a in good spot. This is like a tribal deck in the sense that every creature gets better with every additional creature played. If his Vats are empty it means that he's not losing anything and so he's probably winning.
His deck has no big plays period. It's just a solid deck. He doesn't need removal to make the Vats worthwhile either. Again, the OP stated that this isn't a competitive list for a competitive meta. He just wants to pump out some Splicers and hopefully win. Vats helps him get more bodies on the table even if he's not drawing much action. It's a solid card, it's affordable, and it just works well with what he wants to do.
Except that's a completely different deck which costs what? 10 times more than his current one does? Like, do you realize that your aforementioned Rhy is $10.00, Thrag is $10.00, Sun Titan is $4.00? Do you really expect him to drop $96.00 on a Splicer deck? You don't seem to realize that money is a legitimate limitation and not everyone wants to drop hundreds of dollars on casual MP decks. My suggestions are reasonable from a budgetary perspective and make his deck more powerful on average (in my estimation). You can tell him that a deck with Trags and Rhys and whatnot is better, no one questions that for a second, but that doesn't mean that your suggestions are feasible. $40.00 is a lot to drop on some Rhys but the Vat is like what? $1.50? Even if the card is slightly worse, $3.00 vs $40.00 is pretty substantial. I feel like you're completely ignoring price which isn't very useful in practice.
Durdle :3.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
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We're trying to make his deck better. Good is a relative term. His list would get crushed by a Vintage Shops deck but stands up well to a M13 Sealed draft deck. For all you know his deck is already the one to beat. His meta is slow and casual and our goal should be to improve his deck accordingly. It doesn't need to beat turn 4 Magmatic Forces because that's not what people are playing. There are plenty of cheap-yet-good cards in the game, such as Lurking Predators, Mimic Vat, Rhystic Study and more that could all improve his list without raising its cost by a significant amount. Sure, they cost more than some 5 cent Splicers, but it's not unreasonable to think that he'd be willing to drop $20.00 or so to spruce the list up. Yes, we could tell him to remove all of the cards and buy a "really good" $300.00 deck, but that's just not very practical advice.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Until a specific level of performance is required, no proper help can be given.
As someone who is willing to spend a fair amount even on casual decks, I have some sympathy for your position, but this statement is straight-up nonsense. There's a huge amount of build space between "help my deck beat a meta full of Power 9 and other absurdly powerful plans" and "help make my janky deck somewhat better". If you don't want to help in any case but the first, well, that's your prerogative. Don't pretend it's somehow the only reasonable position to take.
My Decks:
Casual MP
:symg::symb:GB Glissa Pod:symg::symb:
:symu::symw::symb:Esper Artifacts:symu::symw::symb:
:symu::symb::xmana:Ninjas!:xmana::symb::symu:
Bit of clarity on my earlier statement. Map is a very good card and I own and play a lot of them. That being said, they are terrible in the context of this deck in my opinion. A 3 color Tron deck is going to need to find fixing far more often than it's going to be able to afford to fetch a Tron land. Since the deck has no draw, no ramp, no artifact mana etc. I just don't see how it'll ever hit Tron and cast its spells reliably. Since it also has no real big drops, I don't see the point of Tron period. If we assume that Tron is removed, Map becomes miserable since fetching basic lands with it is clearly horrible. I like the Map in dedicated Post/Tron decks, but this is not a dedicated ramp deck in my mind. The way I saw it is that if he's doing nothing but playing Tron lands, given that his deck only has basics and that it's 3 colors, there's no way that he's casting spells. So yeah, they really seem terrible in this instance.
That's pretty much all that I meant.
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GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
I thought about it. But I think that $7 is a bit much to spend on a card that I'll personally never use outside of this deck. That being said, I love Venser as a card, and I had a friend who used him to help stall games indefinitely.
All-in-all, got the cards in the mail today. My total came out to about $13 (already had the splicers, trading posts, and most of the other cards) , and the deck plays nicely. All in all, I'm now able to prevent the hate I receive at my table a reasonable amount of the time. Played four 6-player free-for-all games. Won two, and came pretty close both other times (Got shoved out by a group effort twice. Still got everyone down to 2-7 life, though).
Thank you Everybody. Have a great day!
On Mercurial Chemister:
also check the changeling cards that have the champion ability, changeling berserker, changeling hero, changeling titan
Blink effects like restoration angel, momentary blink
last, I dont like all those artifacts you play, they seem slow and clunky, bad in multiples.
EDIT:
I almost forgot! birthing pod, play that card, is awesome and you could play a few silver bullets against your opponents decks.