I usually play 3-player games, and just realized that my 1-vs-1 decks were getting smashed (I think its because they're tuned for 1-vs-1), so I came up with this list. Also, this is my first multiplayer deck ever, so it might be a trainwreck.
My playgroup tends to love spamming small and cheap creatures, so the deck is chock-full of sweepers to keep the board clean. Magma Phoenix looks like it would work well with Claws of Gix so that I can sweep everything even at instant speed. Thunder Dragon is the main finisher (it also sweeps the board too) and the 2 Clearwater Goblet is to make sure that, if the game drags along, I can still sweep like a madman without killing myself. 4 Everflowing Chalice and 1 Sol Ring means that Magma Phoenix/Thunder Dragon/Caged Sun will come down fast. Lux Cannon and Ricochet Trap are there because one of my friends has a deck full of Oblivion Rings and counterspells and I hate those. Contagion Engine keeps my Spheres alive, charges my Cannons and Dais and is pretty lol with Chandra. There's stuff that I'm not too sure about though, so I'll need your opinion on that:
1. Solemn Simulacrum vs Aether Membrane: I need something to slow down the weenie hordes. Simulacrum gives sweet, sweet card draw and deck-thinning while the Membrane wrecks the opponent's tempo and also survives my sweep effects.
2. X burn spells: I want to run 2 Fanning the Flames and a single Banefire, but I'm not sure if I can find 2 Flames. Would Devil's Play be a decent alternative?
3. Claws of Gix: I need a sacrifice outlet to have my Phoenix die. The small amount of life from the Claws ensures that everyone's dying a little bit faster than me, but I'm open to other options. I've considered Carnage Altar/Culling Dais for card draw. Anything else?
4. Chandra Nalaar vs Chandra Ablaze vs Chandra, the Firebrand: I'm currently running Chandra Nalaar because Contagion Engine allows her to fire off her ultimate the turn she hits the field (and mana shouldn't be an issue in this deck). Chandra Ablaze's -2 does look pretty interesting though (and free with Contagion Engine). I don't see anything nice about the Firebrand. Yup, I'm sticking with Chandra Nalaar
5. Everflowing Chalice vs Sphere of the Suns: The Sphere does give me colored mana, but the Chalice becomes ridiculous fast after a few Proliferates. Which on would be better?
6. Lux Cannon vs Spine of Ish Sah: I used the Spine for a while but went back to the Cannon simply because I can use it outside of my turn. It also drains less mana, which means more mana for Fanning the Flames.Anything I'm missing?
Seems like a solid list to me. I like how you focus on mass damage rather than targeted removal. The only thing I would cut are the reverberates for more creatures, but that's a personal preference I think.
1. I think this is up to testing, if you feel like you're still being swarmed by your opponents' creatures, or big fliers are becoming an annoyance, try Aether Membrane. Otherwise, I'd stick with Solemn, he's ridiculous.
2. Banefire also has the old friend Urza's Rage which is similar. There's also Comet Storm which I think is better than Rolling Thunder because it's an instant and has multikicker.
4. Chandra Ablaze is more of a build-around-me card where you load up your deck with sorceries and instants and then YawgWin (see Yawgmoth's Will and or Past in Flames). Chandra Nalaar seems like your best option, the Firebrand looks less than ideal.
5. Sphere of the Suns would be better in a multicoloured deck, here it's just a Fire Diamond. Everflowing Chalice ramps up your X spells and lets you do wonky things like return a Phoenix to your hand and play it in the same turn. Both benefit from proliferate, but in a mono-colour deck I think Fire Diamond beats Sphere and Chalice beats both in a deck with huge X spells.
The only thing I would cut are the reverberates for more creatures, but that's a personal preference I think.
They're mostly there against counterspells. Getting a Contagion Engine countered sucks. Although I could take them out for Shard Phoenix for even more sweeper goodness or even Stuffy Doll to be a prick...
1. I think this is up to testing, if you feel like you're still being swarmed by your opponents' creatures, or big fliers are becoming an annoyance, try Aether Membrane. Otherwise, I'd stick with Solemn, he's ridiculous.
Yeah, that's what I thought. I guess I'll stick with the Simulacrum for a while and see how it goes.
2. Banefire also has the old friend Urza's Rage which is similar. There's also Comet Storm which I think is better than Rolling Thunder because it's an instant and has multikicker.
Wow, I can't believe I forgot Urza's Rage. It's sadly less flexible than Banefire (since you can choose how much mana to pour into Banefire).
3. I think Culling Dais works well with your proliferate theme. There's also Phyrexia's Core and the much better Diamond Valley.
Sadly, I can't sac my Phoenix to the Core. And the Valley, although it would be perfect, costs more than 100$ each... I could compromise and use Claws of Gix though. And it would additionally allow me to sac Spine of Ish Sah too.
4. and 5.
Chandra Nalaar/Chalice it is then!
6. There are lots of sacrifice an artifact effects that you can abuse Spine of Ish Shah with. I mentioned Phyrexia's Core, there's also Bosh, Iron Golem which would be Boss. Shrapnel Blast, Throne of Geth, etc
The problem with the throne is that I have nothing else to sac for other than the Spine (of which I won't play more than 1). Claws of Gix seems to be a nice compromise.
Here is my old list (from a while ago):
Thanks for the link. How is the deck working out for you? I love the presence of the Sun Droplets as a security net (much better than my Angel). Would Angelheart Vial or, heck, even Clearwater Goblet work instead? Both use counters and thus work well with the Engine, and both help recover health faster (I do end up losing 2-3 life each time my Phoenix dies, and that'll add up eventually). The Vial evens draws me more cards!
If you want something to slow down weenie hoards, try Glacial Crevasses with Snow Mountains. If you can handle the land loss, a free fog is very good.
Hmm, I don't know about the land loss. I really need my mana in the first turns to cast a Phoenix ASAP, and afterwise I don't think I'll need to worry too much about enemy creatures (anyone who casts a creature too big to handle will eat a giant Banefire to the face).
I made a few changes to the decklist on the first post. Check it out. Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Glacial Chasm looks very tempting... I could chuck out the Vakaluts and add some Chasms instead. But then, wouldn't the time counters go up like crazy every time I Proliferate?
Also, I think I'll replace the Mind Stone for a Sol Ring when I pick up one of those Commander packs.
I run both Valakut and Chasm in my deck supported by Expedition Map to tutor for them.
Yes the age counters would skyrocket, but it's generally there for 1-2 turns of protection while you kill everyone with X damage spells. You can sacrifice it when you need to.
Proliferate only increases the counters you choose, so if you choose to not increase the counters on Glacial Chasm, that is cool.
In a red deck, the only counters worth proliferating are on planeswalkers, lands via Obsidian Fireheart, and +1/+1 counters. I really cannot think of much else.
Cheers!
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Proliferate only increases the counters you choose, so if you choose to not increase the counters on Glacial Chasm, that is cool.
In a red deck, the only counters worth proliferating are on planeswalkers, lands via Obsidian Fireheart, and +1/+1 counters. I really cannot think of much else.
10/1/2009: If a land ends up with more than one blaze counter on it (thanks to Doubling Season or Gilder Bairn, for example), the ability still only causes it to deal 1 damage to its controller each turn.
Really? So if I have a Contagion Engine, a Clearwater Goblet and 4 spare mana per turn, I could keep the Chasm going indefinitely?
Well, I guess so, so long as you were clever with your life gain, and you were getting two counters a turn onto the Goblet. Bear in mind that the Chasm is a loss of life, so you'll never be able to prevent the damage in any way - you'd need to gain the life in advance, and then pay the upkeep.
Wild Ricochet over Reverberate. It has a higher CC, but it can stop counterspells in their tracks, and is far more effective against opponents's spells. (Yes, Dear Forum, I promise to shut up about this one soon).
Fanning the Flames and/or Rolling Thunder in place of at least one of the Banefires. It's good to have a mix, I find. Rolling Thunder splits across all targets, FtF buys back continuously. One of all three would be a good mix, IMHO.
Insurrection over one of the Chandra Nalaars. Don't think you need three Chandras, and Insurrection is basically "I win" for eight mana.
A couple more suggestions on the original list: Wild Ricochet over Reverberate. It has a higher CC, but it can stop counterspells in their tracks, and is far more effective against opponents's spells. (Yes, Dear Forum, I promise to shut up about this one soon).
Haha, I was personally thinking of replacing Reverberate with Ricochet Trap as an ultimate "screw you" to counterspells (it's also easier on the wallet). But Wild Ricochet is much better on other non-blue targets though (like burn)... I'll think about this one.
Fanning the Flames and/or Rolling Thunder in place of at least one of the Banefires. It's good to have a mix, I find. Rolling Thunder splits across all targets, FtF buys back continuously. One of all three would be a good mix, IMHO.
Fanning the Flames does look nice since mana isn't much of an issue in this deck. I hope I can find some... Banefire's mostly there to smack those huge Pro-Red creatures, but there aren't much of those.
Insurrection over one of the Chandra Nalaars. Don't think you need three Chandras, and Insurrection is basically "I win" for eight mana.
Eh, I don't know. There shouldn't be much on the board after a few Phoenix deaths (that's not counting the Contagion Engines either), so there might not be much left to steal.
Well, I guess so, so long as you were clever with your life gain, and you were getting two counters a turn onto the Goblet.
Contagion Engine's effect says "Proliferate, then proliferate again". I think that means 2 extra counters per turn (I'm still not 100% sure how proliferate works). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, I'm looking for a colorless/Red way to deal with Hexproof/Shroud cretures with more than 6 toughness (like Kalonian Behemoth). Insurrection would work (just steal their stuff and kill them with it). Right now I have to pray to draw Chandra and have a Contagion Engine ready to fire her ultimate.
Haha, I was personally thinking of replacing Reverberate with Ricochet Trap as an ultimate "screw you" to counterspells (it's also easier on the wallet). But Wild Ricochet is much better on other non-blue targets though (like burn)... I'll think about this one.
I have run it for ages, and used it as a hard counter a few times, but it truly burnt itself into my entire playgroup's mindset a few months ago, when I aimed it at an opponent's Blatant Thievery. That was a good game.
Eh, I don't know. There shouldn't be much on the board after a few Phoenix deaths (that's not counting the Contagion Engines either), so there might not be much left to steal.
...
Also, I'm looking for a colorless/Red way to deal with Hexproof/Shroud cretures with more than 6 toughness (like Kalonian Behemoth). Insurrection would work (just steal their stuff and kill them with it). Right now I have to pray to draw Chandra and have a Contagion Engine ready to fire her ultimate.
Good point... throwing Phoenixes (Phoenii?) around like that will likely reduce Insurrection's effectiveness. That said, you're also right in that it's likely to be one of the few things that will take a Kalonian Behemoth. Other than that, they don't like being blocked by Tephraderms, but that's about all I can think of short of a reset.
Contagion Engine's effect says "Proliferate, then proliferate again". I think that means 2 extra counters per turn (I'm still not 100% sure how proliferate works). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
No, you're right - I had the Clasp in my head, not the Engine.
4 Magma Phoenix
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Thunder Dragon
Spells:
3 Contagion Engine
3 Ricochet Trap
3 Claws of Gix
4 Everflowing Chalice
1 Sol Ring
1 Banefire
2 Fanning the Flames
1 Lux Cannon
3 Caged Sun
3 Chandra Nalaar
2 Clearwater Goblet
22 Mountain
2 Vakalut, the Molten Pinnacle
My playgroup tends to love spamming small and cheap creatures, so the deck is chock-full of sweepers to keep the board clean. Magma Phoenix looks like it would work well with Claws of Gix so that I can sweep everything even at instant speed. Thunder Dragon is the main finisher (it also sweeps the board too) and the 2 Clearwater Goblet is to make sure that, if the game drags along, I can still sweep like a madman without killing myself. 4 Everflowing Chalice and 1 Sol Ring means that Magma Phoenix/Thunder Dragon/Caged Sun will come down fast. Lux Cannon and Ricochet Trap are there because one of my friends has a deck full of Oblivion Rings and counterspells and I hate those. Contagion Engine keeps my Spheres alive, charges my Cannons and Dais and is pretty lol with Chandra. There's stuff that I'm not too sure about though, so I'll need your opinion on that:
1. Solemn Simulacrum vs Aether Membrane: I need something to slow down the weenie hordes. Simulacrum gives sweet, sweet card draw and deck-thinning while the Membrane wrecks the opponent's tempo and also survives my sweep effects.
2. X burn spells: I want to run 2 Fanning the Flames and a single Banefire, but I'm not sure if I can find 2 Flames. Would Devil's Play be a decent alternative?
3. Claws of Gix: I need a sacrifice outlet to have my Phoenix die. The small amount of life from the Claws ensures that everyone's dying a little bit faster than me, but I'm open to other options. I've considered Carnage Altar/Culling Dais for card draw. Anything else?
4. Chandra Nalaar vs Chandra Ablaze vs Chandra, the Firebrand: I'm currently running Chandra Nalaar because Contagion Engine allows her to fire off her ultimate the turn she hits the field (and mana shouldn't be an issue in this deck). Chandra Ablaze's -2 does look pretty interesting though (and free with Contagion Engine). I don't see anything nice about the Firebrand. Yup, I'm sticking with Chandra Nalaar
5. Everflowing Chalice vs Sphere of the Suns: The Sphere does give me colored mana, but the Chalice becomes ridiculous fast after a few Proliferates. Which on would be better?
6. Lux Cannon vs Spine of Ish Sah: I used the Spine for a while but went back to the Cannon simply because I can use it outside of my turn. It also drains less mana, which means more mana for Fanning the Flames.Anything I'm missing?
Thanks in advance
1. I think this is up to testing, if you feel like you're still being swarmed by your opponents' creatures, or big fliers are becoming an annoyance, try Aether Membrane. Otherwise, I'd stick with Solemn, he's ridiculous.
2. Banefire also has the old friend Urza's Rage which is similar. There's also Comet Storm which I think is better than Rolling Thunder because it's an instant and has multikicker.
3. I think Culling Dais works well with your proliferate theme. There's also Phyrexia's Core and the much better Diamond Valley.
4. Chandra Ablaze is more of a build-around-me card where you load up your deck with sorceries and instants and then YawgWin (see Yawgmoth's Will and or Past in Flames). Chandra Nalaar seems like your best option, the Firebrand looks less than ideal.
5. Sphere of the Suns would be better in a multicoloured deck, here it's just a Fire Diamond. Everflowing Chalice ramps up your X spells and lets you do wonky things like return a Phoenix to your hand and play it in the same turn. Both benefit from proliferate, but in a mono-colour deck I think Fire Diamond beats Sphere and Chalice beats both in a deck with huge X spells.
6. There are lots of sacrifice an artifact effects that you can abuse Spine of Ish Shah with. I mentioned Phyrexia's Core, there's also Bosh, Iron Golem which would be Boss. Shrapnel Blast, Throne of Geth, etc
Hope that helps.
Multiplayer:
MonoBlack
Mono-Red
Cycling
Crush of Wurms
Zoo
Immortal Coil
Control
Reanimator
Mono-G
Cruel Ascension
Landfall
Esper Spirits/Tokens
Phantom Vigor
Not Explicitly Multiplayer:
Allies
Bant
Artifacts
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=324936
If you want something to slow down weenie hoards, try Glacial Crevasses with Snow Mountains. If you can handle the land loss, a free fog is very good.
They're mostly there against counterspells. Getting a Contagion Engine countered sucks. Although I could take them out for Shard Phoenix for even more sweeper goodness or even Stuffy Doll to be a prick...
Yeah, that's what I thought. I guess I'll stick with the Simulacrum for a while and see how it goes.
Wow, I can't believe I forgot Urza's Rage. It's sadly less flexible than Banefire (since you can choose how much mana to pour into Banefire).
Sadly, I can't sac my Phoenix to the Core. And the Valley, although it would be perfect, costs more than 100$ each... I could compromise and use Claws of Gix though. And it would additionally allow me to sac Spine of Ish Sah too.
Chandra Nalaar/Chalice it is then!
The problem with the throne is that I have nothing else to sac for other than the Spine (of which I won't play more than 1). Claws of Gix seems to be a nice compromise.
Thanks for the link. How is the deck working out for you? I love the presence of the Sun Droplets as a security net (much better than my Angel). Would Angelheart Vial or, heck, even Clearwater Goblet work instead? Both use counters and thus work well with the Engine, and both help recover health faster (I do end up losing 2-3 life each time my Phoenix dies, and that'll add up eventually). The Vial evens draws me more cards!
Hmm, I don't know about the land loss. I really need my mana in the first turns to cast a Phoenix ASAP, and afterwise I don't think I'll need to worry too much about enemy creatures (anyone who casts a creature too big to handle will eat a giant Banefire to the face).
I made a few changes to the decklist on the first post. Check it out. Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.
All that red and no Akroma, Angel of Fury?
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Multiplayer:
MonoBlack
Mono-Red
Cycling
Crush of Wurms
Zoo
Immortal Coil
Control
Reanimator
Mono-G
Cruel Ascension
Landfall
Esper Spirits/Tokens
Phantom Vigor
Not Explicitly Multiplayer:
Allies
Bant
Artifacts
Also, I think I'll replace the Mind Stone for a Sol Ring when I pick up one of those Commander packs.
Yes the age counters would skyrocket, but it's generally there for 1-2 turns of protection while you kill everyone with X damage spells. You can sacrifice it when you need to.
Multiplayer:
MonoBlack
Mono-Red
Cycling
Crush of Wurms
Zoo
Immortal Coil
Control
Reanimator
Mono-G
Cruel Ascension
Landfall
Esper Spirits/Tokens
Phantom Vigor
Not Explicitly Multiplayer:
Allies
Bant
Artifacts
In a red deck, the only counters worth proliferating are on planeswalkers, lands via Obsidian Fireheart, and +1/+1 counters. I really cannot think of much else.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Sorry, but Obsidian Fireheart's rules say:
Multiplayer:
MonoBlack
Mono-Red
Cycling
Crush of Wurms
Zoo
Immortal Coil
Control
Reanimator
Mono-G
Cruel Ascension
Landfall
Esper Spirits/Tokens
Phantom Vigor
Not Explicitly Multiplayer:
Allies
Bant
Artifacts
Really? So if I have a Contagion Engine, a Clearwater Goblet and 4 spare mana per turn, I could keep the Chasm going indefinitely?
Well, I guess so, so long as you were clever with your life gain, and you were getting two counters a turn onto the Goblet. Bear in mind that the Chasm is a loss of life, so you'll never be able to prevent the damage in any way - you'd need to gain the life in advance, and then pay the upkeep.
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Haha, I was personally thinking of replacing Reverberate with Ricochet Trap as an ultimate "screw you" to counterspells (it's also easier on the wallet). But Wild Ricochet is much better on other non-blue targets though (like burn)... I'll think about this one.
Fanning the Flames does look nice since mana isn't much of an issue in this deck. I hope I can find some... Banefire's mostly there to smack those huge Pro-Red creatures, but there aren't much of those.
Eh, I don't know. There shouldn't be much on the board after a few Phoenix deaths (that's not counting the Contagion Engines either), so there might not be much left to steal.
Contagion Engine's effect says "Proliferate, then proliferate again". I think that means 2 extra counters per turn (I'm still not 100% sure how proliferate works). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, I'm looking for a colorless/Red way to deal with Hexproof/Shroud cretures with more than 6 toughness (like Kalonian Behemoth). Insurrection would work (just steal their stuff and kill them with it). Right now I have to pray to draw Chandra and have a Contagion Engine ready to fire her ultimate.
Edit: just updated the OP with all the changes.
I have run it for ages, and used it as a hard counter a few times, but it truly burnt itself into my entire playgroup's mindset a few months ago, when I aimed it at an opponent's Blatant Thievery. That was a good game.
Good point... throwing Phoenixes (Phoenii?) around like that will likely reduce Insurrection's effectiveness. That said, you're also right in that it's likely to be one of the few things that will take a Kalonian Behemoth. Other than that, they don't like being blocked by Tephraderms, but that's about all I can think of short of a reset.
No, you're right - I had the Clasp in my head, not the Engine.
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Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
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