You're probably wondering if this is your run of the mill Kydele + Vial Smasher wheel deck. Yes, it is. Granted, this strategy isn't something new to Commander - just ask Nekusar!
Wheeling is already a pretty popular strategy and this ain't my first rodeo on the subject. I've been playing a solid and devoted wheel deck with Nekusar at the helm since Commander 2013 first came out. I've posted pretty extensively on it in various threads here at MTGSalvation. Additionally, I'm also building a Saskia reanimator human tribal that runs as many wheels as possible. So, what makes these partners stand out in comparison? They're actually very similar to Nekusar in spirit. The only difference is that we now have access to G, which allows for some extra awesomeness that isn't viable with Nekusar. But we'll get into that later on. Notwithstanding, Nekusar is present as one of the 98.
Unlike many people who use this combination, I'm strictly only using Kydele more so than Vial Smasher. In all honestly, I have her in here just for access to B and R; she's basically the only BR partner available to date. That's not to say Vial Smasher is completely useless, but this deck is usually making all of its plays and casting all of its spells in a single turn. So Vial Smasher is just basically doing nothing after the first spell cast. Kydele, on the other hand, provides an insane amount of mana. There are so many ways to abuse her ability here; it's ridiculous. Untapping her multiple times in a turn provides a crazy amount of mana which can then become filtered into colored mana to cast a massive amount of spells. This allows for near limitless fuel for casting tons of wheels which can outright win you the game if you have cards like Psychosis Crawler and/or Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind in play or a victory can also come via Nekusar, the Mindrazer type effects along with Megrim type effects - similar to how most Nekusar decks run, anyways.
As chaotic as it may seem, the playthrough is pretty straightforward: draw, draw, draw but don't kill yourself as you do!
don’t like constantly shuffling a deck of commander size
1.2 - Other Possible Commanders:
Okay, so let’s say you’re on board with running this established EDH deck. Let's also say you like the color combination. As far as color combination is concerned, there's really only a couple of ways to accomplish this. Also, there are few legends that can be used at the helm of a wheeling deck.
"Tissue for your issue?"
Leovold, Emissary of Trest: once upon a time this guy was legal in Commander. Back then, you could wheel like there was no tomorrow while being the only beneficiary of it. You'd deprive your opponents of cards. Not only that, you'd have them discard everything in the process. Howling Mine type effects were one-sided as well. Granted, if you want a similar effect you can just run Notion Thief in your main deck. But that's neither legendary nor BUG-colored.
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder provides the color combination needed for the strategy with the extra bonus of allowing you one more card in the main deck. However, even though it is possible to build a wheel-devoted deck around Yidris, it's not as efficient as with Kydele + Vial Smasher. Sure, Yidris gives all your spells cascade, so it allows for a lot of free casting. However, he needs to get through with combat damage first. That means that he's gotta connect. So you gotta build around that. That takes up slots in the deck. Additionally, you want to take advantage of that - otherwise, what's the point? So you'll add in ways to multiply his ability. There's more slots right there. While you're at it, you might as well take advantage of all those interactions. Therefore, wheeling pretty much just becomes an afterthought. Yidris's cons as a wheeler are needing to connect in order to use his ability and he inherently doesn't provide the mana that Kydele does.
Reaper King, the original "4-colored" legend. You can pretty much play Reaper King without including any other W symbols in your cards. Just cast it with 2UBRG and be done with it. However, dedicating your deck to wheeling with having Reaper King in the background is just inefficient. Sure, this would make the deck totally independent of the commander but you won't be able to produce the insane amount of mana per turn that Kydele has the potential of producing.
Vial Smasher the Fierce + Thrasios, Triton Hero provides the partner aspect but Vial Smasher was never the star of the show, anyways. Sure, Thrasios can help filter through the deck, but that becomes underwhelming with all the cards you can potentially draw into thanks to the wheels and acceleration. Additionally, the main commander of the deck is Kydele; I could play an entire game without casting Vial Smasher once. If a better partner (by "better partner" I mean "more relevant to the main strategy") with the appropriate colors is ever printed, I may consider Kydele + Alternate Partner as a better team.
Nekusar, the Mindrazer is the only other commander devoted to this strategy as strongly as the UGRB partners. On his own, it's a great deck that I enjoy playing. As I said before, it's a deck I've been giving lots of love and attention since Nov. 2013. However, when I found out about the possibilities with Kydele + Vial Smasher, I had to get into that. Nekusar can be very slow unless you run a lot of mana rocks (which I do). It can also take multiple turns to actually get the win as well or get the win out of nowhere (after a lot of initial setup). That being said, having a three-colored deck versus a four-colored deck means a cheaper mana base. However, access to G provides being able to run more mana rocks, City of Solitude, and Splendid Reclamation. Sure, it may not seem like a lot, but you can also ramp if you prefer that over mana rocks. Nekusar can't give you that choice in UBR.
1.3 - What to expect:
COMING SOON
2 - Deck History:
"Wheeling" is my namesake!
As I've mentioned before, this deck came as a sort of evolution from Nekusar, the Mindrazer. It's not that I got bored with Nekusar at the helm, but the addition of G plus the insane amount of mana produced allowed for a broader range of cards and plays. I'm not the first person to establish Nekusar at the helm of the wheeling archetype nor am I the one who broke him as such. Neither am I the person who conjured up Kydele + Vial Smasher at the helm of wheeling. (It'd be great if anyone can point me in the direction of those responsible for establishing those decks.)
Wheeling is a super fun deck archetype that forces you to play with no self-regard to the point of walking along the edge of suicide. While fine-tuning the deck I've lost track of all the times I'd deck myself. And don't even get me started on mana burn! If that rule was still relevant... That, to me, is one of the more fun aspects of the deck - living on the edge. The deck may run G but it is very much R.
If you're curious as to how I run my Nekusar deck, you can find that here, in this thread. Playing with this archetype since Nov. 2013 it's safe to say I know my way around wheels - no pun intended . .
2.1 - Current build:
Competitive Build:
Here's the competitive build. It includes many expensive cards that may be out of budget for some folks (myself included) and also very cutthroat with the possibility for plays that some may deem too degenerate or obnoxious. This is the current version I'm running and is the one I've been working on the most. It's super fun to pilot and will always have you playing on edge. This is the version of the deck I will discuss most throughout this thread. Hopefully I'll be able to develop a more budget version in an Alternate Builds section.
The main strategy of the deck is to wheel like no tomorrow. Drawing such ridiculous amounts of cards makes Kydele tap for an insane amount of . . Since the deck is wheeling and recovering and shuffling and bottom-decking, etc., you could very easily draw over 100 cards and not deck yourself. Constant wheeling and drawing so that you can play the wincons is the route to victory. This is the main strategy for all versions of the deck I discuss this post.
Synergy & Combos:
Drawing into the Deck
The deck runs many ways to hurt opponents when everyone is wheeling. However, one of the main things the deck wants to do is draw - even if it's one-sided. Drawing a whole bunch of cards allows Kydele to tap for a ton of mana. This can be accomplished not only by wheeling but by simply drawing into a whole bunch of cards by other means. The cards that help me the most are Arjun, the Shifting Flame and Mindmoil. With every spell I cast my hand is "refreshed" and those draws count towards Kydele tapping for a ton of mana. This becomes even more brutal when combined with Alhammarret's Archive. Be warned, though: without Platinum Angel or Laboratory Maniac, this is fastest way to deck yourself. If you have the archive in play, then you're basically drawing twice as many cards each time you cast a spell - and they add up. A good way to prevent this is by discarding a lot of cards thanks to Skirge Protector or Mind Over Matter, which not only help at slowing down these effects, but can also give you tons of B while Mind Over Matter can untap Kydele. So it's win/win.
Pain for Draw / Pain for Discard
Staples to the wheeling archetype are cards that punish opponents for drawing and/or discarding. Drawing is inevitable with wheels. Even if you cast wheels like Windfall or Whispering Madness, an opponent with an empty hand will still draw cards. Since this deck is constantly wheeling into its wincons, this is a great way to get that victory. Sometimes that aftermathed Ribbons or madnessed Avacyn's Judgment will be countered. However, if you already have something like Fate Unraveler or Liliana's Carees in play and are able to get enough wheels to go off, you can easily kill off the table. The control players won't be able to counter every wheel (usually).
Your Draw is Their Pain
The deck is totally devoted to punishing opponents for every wheel effect. However, maybe you want to run a deck that doesn't really on opponents' hands. That's fine because the player drawing most is you! You could bypass all cards that punish the opponents for their actions in lieu of opening slots for other things. You could then only run cards that care about you drawing. Drawing into so much of the deck could give you the victory on the spot - since you're drawing tons of cards per turn. So maybe just running Psychosis Crawler and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is enough.
Reducing That Hand
It's very easy to deck yourself with this deck. I've mentioned it quite extensively before. Sure, you want to draw as many cards as possible, but sometimes you get so much steam you can explode. Sometimes, there's no way back and you get stuck without being able to win. For example, if you have Mindmoil and Alhammarret's Archive in play, you could easily deck yourself by casting maybe 4 spells. Sometimes there's no way around it. If one of those spells isn't something to either prevent you from decking yourself, to fill your library more to give you some time, to discard some cards to make your hand smaller, to prevent you from losing (Platinum Angel), or have you win because of it (Laboratory Maniac), then you're pretty much dead. After much testing and finding myself in this situation, I found that the best thing to do was to either sacrifice Alhammarret's Archive or discard cards from your hand. So I added Claws of Gix, Skirge Familiar, and Mind Over Matter. Maybe you've accumulated too much steam; you could discard cards to lower your hand. Either way, all three cards work great on their own. You could sacrifice a bunch of tapped lands or other permanents to get some life with Claws of Gix and fill your graveyard. That way, when you shuffle your graveyard into your deck, you get a fatter deck, too. Skirge Familiar can add cards to the graveyard (like Cut // Ribbons, Commit // Memory, or Runehorn Hellkite) or give you the opportunity to play Avacyn's Judgment all while giving you mana in the process. Mind Over Matter does the same thing and it can be used to untap things like Kydele, Candelabra of Tawnos, Jace's Archivist, mana rocks, lands, etc. Definitely some great cards to add.
Paint with All the Colors of the Wind
Unfortunately, Kydele can only produce . . That's not a problem, however, since there are ways to filter that colorless mana into colored mana. The signets can give you two colors for . , you could literally filter that mana with Gemstone Array (which also doubles as mana storage), or untap your lands with Candelabra of Tawnos. This is very crucial since you're going to want to keep Kydele untapped until you're able to untap her various times in a turn. So your main source of mana are from the mana rocks and lands. If your only source of mana is the colorless provided by Kydele, you need a way to filter it in order to keep wheeling and/or drawing into your deck.
2.1.3 - Piloting the Deck:
"If you smash my vase I swear to Kruphix..."
Mulligans:
The purpose of the deck is to get Kydele out as quickly as possible and wheel into more wheels as fast as possible. An ideal hand should have at least 3 lands and 1 mana rock. The deck runs so many wheels and one-sided wheels that you're bound to draw into one should you not get one in your opening hand. Additionally, there are many cards to filter your hand like Mindmoil, Arjun, the Shifting Flame, etc. which you're also bound to draw into. So just make sure you get an early Kydele casting.
Early game:
You want to get Kydele in play as quickly as possible. Sure, this may make her susceptible to spot removal early on. That being said, she's relatively cheap to cast and the deck runs a lot of mana rocks and ways to produce mana should you need to recast her. Once Kydele is out and able to give you mana, try and wheel as quickly as possible. Not only do you draw cards to get lots of mana from Kydele, but you're sifting through your deck for important cards like Paradox Engine and Thousand-Year Elixir. These allow you to untap Kydele multiple times in a single turn and really get that chain of wheels rolling.
Mid Game:
The deck aims to not simply wheel and draw for the sake of physically shifting cards around - unless you have pain for draw and/or discard effects in play. You want to eventually burn your opponent or win by decking yourself thanks to Laboratory Maniac. By midgame you should already have some form of harming your opponent in play (whether with Fate Unraveler, Psychosis Crawler, Megrim, etc.) which will allow you to secure the victory with only a couple of wheels. Additionally, you should have cards to accelerate your drawing like Mindmoil, Arjun, Alhammarret's Archive, etc.
Late Game:
Since the deck wins after some intense digging through the deck, it's very easy to go from early game to midgame and straight to late game. If you're able to get a Liliana's Caress or Megrim early on and wheel a couple of times then you've already won. If you're able to produce an insane amount of mana and then cast Avacyn's Judgment for its madness cost or cast Cut // Ribbons from the graveyard, you've just won. Another great way to win is by having Laboratory Maniac in play and decking yourself. However, know that it's not uncommon to win by merely trickling down your opponents with draw-for-pain or discard-for-pain effects throughout various turns. Yet, the main goal is to draw as many cards as possible in a single turn and get secure the win right then and there.
2.1.4 - Card by card analysis:
A commander deck has 100 cards. Out of which I already explained most of the contents of my deck in great detail. However, if you want even greater detail, click the spoiler to see a list explaining every single card in the deck that is not a mana producing, non-utility land.
Artifacts:
Alhammarret's Archive – This is the fastest way to draw a buttload of cards. It is a double-edged sword however, since a lot of wheels have you draw the same amount of cards as those discarded, which has you pretty much doubling your hand each time. Combined with cards like Mindmoil it can get pretty dangerous. However, as long you have Platinum Angel or Laboratory Maniac in play, you can safely draw your entire library.
Candelabra of Tawnos – One of the best filters in the deck. All lands in the deck potentially give colored mana. So when Kydele taps for colorless, you can invest that into the candelabra to untap your lands and have access to colored mana once again. Definitely a great card in the deck. When combined with Paradox Engine, you can potentially untap all your lands as well with each spell you cast.
Claws of Gix – Constant testing proved that sometimes drawing so many cards is a problem - especially when the cards making you draw have no "you may" clause. This means that I needed a killswitch to prevent these cards from making me kill myself. This card is also great to fill your graveyard and then shuffle it back into your library to make your library large again. For example, you can sacrifice your lands, get some life, then recover the lands with Splendid Reclamation. You can also sacrifice Mindmoil and Arjun if you need to cast spells in your hand without having them get bottomdecked. Or, more importantly, sacrifice Alhammarret's Archive before it kills you. Also, this allows you to cast the EldraziTitans to actually use them, then sacrifice them when you need to recover your graveyard.
Gemstone Array – One of the best filters of the deck. For 2 you can get one mana of any color. This is crucial when all of your colored sources are tapped out. Even though Kydele can give you a large amount of colorless mana, without any color you can't cast any wheels (apart from Memory Jar). Not only that, but you can also store mana if you run out of steam and need to win in subsequent turns.
Library of Leng – I love this card in my Nekusar and I love it here. If you're going to draw too many cards off of a wheel due to Alhammarret's Archive, you can just put your entire hand onto your library and then draw it back as well as the new cards. You can also basically filter what your discarding away when wheeling. It also has the added bonus of giving you no maximum hand size. It's cheap to cast, as well. It's just a great card to have.
Mana Crypt - Amazing mana rock that's now relatively easier to acquire thanks to Eternal Masters. This allows for a turn 2 Kydele without any other mana rocks. However, with other 0 mana rocks you can get a turn 1 Kydele.
Memory Jar – A colorless wheel. Kydele loves that since you're able to wheel off of the colored mana in a pinch and save that colored mana for those U, B, or R wheels.
Paradox Engine – Quite easily the most broken card in the deck. Every spell I cast untaps all of my nonland permanents. That means Kydele, all the mana rocks, and cards like Candelabra of Tawnos, Jace's Archivist, Thousand-Year Elixir, etc. This allows for a ridiculous amount of mana to be produced and pretty much guarantees that Ribbons or Avacyn's Judgment will win you the game.
Sol Ring - Standard EDH mana rock. Without any other mana rocks, this grants a Kydele as early as turn 2. Should definitely be included.
Thousand-Year Elixir – Not only does this allow creatures like Kydele, Jace's Archivist, and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind to tap the turn they come into play, but you can also use it to untap Kydele and get a lot more mana in a single turn. Definitely one of the best tools in the toolbox.
Vedalken Orrery - Sometimes you don't want to discard or shuffle away some great cards in your hands. With Vedalken Orrery out you can cast spells in your hand in response to wheels resolving. That way you can take advantage of your hand while you have it before wheeling. I run this over Leyline of Anticipation because even though the latter could enter for free before the game even starts, Vedalken Orrery is colorless and can be cast without investing colored mana.
every available mox - Running a 4-colored deck that's dependent on being able to untap your mana rocks means that it's vital to add in as many rocks as possible. These 0 mana rocks (Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mox Amber, and Mox Opal) are great for when Paradox Engine is in play. They're also clutch early game for a quick Kydele casting. You could literally get a turn 1 Kydele with relative ease.
Arjun, the Shifting Flame – Mindmoil on a body, this card is amazing at getting that draw count high for Kydele. Although you have to bottomdeck your hand each time you cast a spell, at least you're not discarding away your hand. It is a bit expensive to cast but if you can't win in that same turn, at least you have a 5/5 flyer, which is a great blocker.
Fate Unraveler - Used primarily to punish opponents during wheeling. Used as part of the strategy of the main wincon.
Jace's Archivist – Although it has summoning sickness, once you have Thousand-Year Elixir in play you can tap if for wheeling. Even so, if you have it in play since a previous turn, you could use it to wheel. The great thing about this creature is having it in play with Paradox Engine. You can very easily use it to kill off opponents with so much wheeling - even going so far as decking them.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth – Although easy to cast since it's colorless (and provides 4 cards when doing so), it's major use is to shuffle the graveyard into the library in order to prevent decking (or to protect your graveyard from being exiled).
Laboratory Maniac – Used an alternate wincon, it's very easy to pull off with the constant wheeling and drawing.
Magus of the Jar – Literally Memory Jar on a body, so it has the con of summoning sickness. However, once you get Thousand-Year Elixir in play, you can tap it on the same turn you play it.
Nekusar, the Mindrazer – The original commander of the deck is still useful here as a way to hurt opponents whenever they draw a card as part of the main wincon of the deck.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind – Used as part of the main wincon of the deck. It's even more viable as a wincon since you're going to be drawing way more cards than your opponents.
Platinum Angel – Its main use is to prevent suicide by self-milling. Having this in play removes the risk of decking yourself. Well, as long as it's not removed from the battlefield in response to decking yourself.
Psychosis Crawler – Used as part of the main wincon of the deck. It's even more viable as a wincon since you're going to be drawing way more cards than your opponents.
Runehorn Hellkite – Is pretty much only used as a wheel cast from the graveyard. This is great for when you're wheeling things since it gives you the option of getting that extra wheel without having it in your hand.
Skirge Familiar – Used to reduce the size of your hand in order to protect you from Alhammarret's Archive being combined with Mindmoil. It also provides lots of B as a byproduct, as well.
City of Solitude – One of the main reasons of including G (sorry, Nekusar!) since this pretty much protects your turn. Having this in play means being able to go all out without having to worry about any opponents disrupting your plays. Once you resolve City of Solitude it's pretty much game over. Definitely one of the best cards in the deck.
Liliana's Caress – Used as part of the main wincon of the deck which is to hurt opponents during wheeling.
Megrim – Used as part of the main wincon of the deck which is to hurt opponents during wheeling.
Mind Over Matter – Used to reduce the size of your hand in order to protect you from Alhammarret's Archive being combined with Mindmoil. Although being a trifle difficult to cast in a 4-colored deck due to the quadruple blue, this card makes it that much easier to produce an absurd amount of mana. Being able to untap Kydele, mana rocks, lands, Jace's Archivist, etc. makes this card too broken to not include.
Mindmoil – This card is amazing at getting that draw count high for Kydele. Although you have to bottomdeck your hand each time you cast a spell, at least you're not discarding away your hand.
Raiders' Wake - Megrim is more expensive than Liliana's Caress and this one is more expensive than Megrim. The raid effect of this card is practically null in this deck; it's inclusion is simply for redundant Megrim effects.
Waste Not - An amazing card with a wheeling deck. All bonuses are good but the one that matters most for effects of the deck is the mana producing one. This allows to continue chaining into more wheels, storing the mana in Gemstone Array if you do run out of steam, or to play more things from the hand.
Spells:
Ancient Excavation – A great way to up the draw count in a turn all while "filtering" the cards in your hand. The deck also runs 8 basic lands so it can at least net you a basic land in a pinch.
Commit // Memory – Although Commit can help in a bind, the main part of the card that's used is Memory, which is pretty much a Time Reversal you can cast from your graveyard (albeit at sorcery speed).
Cyclonic Rift – One of the best cards to do preceding a wheel. If you bounce all of your oppponents' nonland permanents, their hands are gonna be huge. So casting wheels like Windfall and Whispering Madness means that everyone will be drawing way more cards than with a usual wheel (like Wheel of Fortune or Reforge the Soul which limits it to 7).
Fateful Showdown – This is basically a Tolarian Winds that has the benefit of burning a creature or player. When you have a significant amount of cards in your hand it could potentially take out an opponent all while wheeling your hand.
Tolarian Winds – Another oldschool wheel, this is just a one-sided wheel. However, these types of wheels are still useful in the deck since it ups the draw count for Kydele and can still hurt opponents if you have cards like Psychosis Crawler or Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind in play.
Cut // Ribbons – Cut is basically never used but Ribbons is an alternate wincon along the same vein as Avacyn's Judgment. Since it's cast from the graveyard, it doesn't matter if it was wheeled away.
Dark Deal – An odd wheel that has a global Tolarian Winds-minus-1 effect but a wheel nonetheless.
Flux – This gives opponents the option of filtering their hands so they may choose not to if you have cards that ping for draw or discard in play. However, its main purpose is for you to take advantage of it. Oh, and you cantrip afterwards as a bonus.
Game Plan - Once opponents realize what the deck is about I doubt any of them would want to assist in paying this spell's casting cost (although in a 2-headed giant game this spell might be much cheaper to cast). That being said, it is another solid wheel which is what the deck wants to keep doing (costing the same as Time Spiral without the land untapping effect).
Incendiary Command – The wheel option is always used. The other option I tend to use is to destroy a nonbasic land or giving that extra 4 points of damage to an opponent's face (or planeswalker).
Khorvath's Fury - Can be used to keep wheeling which can also hurt opponents while also disrupting them and refilling your hand. However, when in the absence of pain-for-draw effects, you can choose the burn mode and hurt opponents with large hands that they've probably gotten due to previous wheeling. Definitely a versatile wheel.
Molten Psyche – Running this means that you have to be aware of how many cards your opponents have drawn in a single turn (not just you for Kydele) so have a notepad ready. This is easily one of the best wheels in the deck because it could potentially win you the match right then and there.
Reforge the Soul - An expensive Wheel of Fortune that your're hardly able to cast for its miracle cost since you're inevitably going to be casting it after you draw into it when drawing through most of your deck. That being said, it's still a wheel so it's still part of the main wincon.
Splendid Reclamation - Another bonus of running G; with so many wheels you're going to fill your graveyard with lands. Getting them into play with Splendid Reclamation is simply an amazing play. Untapping them all afterwards with Candelabra of Tawnos is just icing on the cake.
Time Reversal - A great wheel that helps you recover your graveyard. Although it helps opponents recover their graveyard as well, potentially preventing them from being decked, the purpose of our deck isn't to mill an opponent, so it's no biggie. Besides, if you have City of Solitude in play, it doesn't matter what your opponents recover; they won't be able to play or activate anything.
Time Spiral - Pretty much the same as Time Reversal. However, even though it costs 1 more than Time Reversal, you're able to untap 6 lands for casting it.
Wheel of Fortune - The original wheel, which is why these types of spells are called "wheels". It's cheap to cast and can net you 7 cards regardless of how many cards you had in your hand. It's also global so your opponents have to discard and draw as well, meaning they get hurt by Megrim, Fate Unraveler, etc.
Whispering Madness - The great thing about this wheel is that it can net you way more than 7 cards because you draw the greatest amount of what someone discarded. Using this as a follow-up to an overloaded Cyclonic Rift can be really brutal as far as drawing cards and hurting opponents go.
Windfall - Similar to Whispering Madness but easier to cast since it costs 1 less and only needs one color. Again, using this as a follow-up to an overloaded Cyclonic Rift can be really brutal as far as drawing cards and hurting opponents go.
Winds of Change - A wheel where cards aren't discarded; they're shuffled back into the library. It doesn't activate the pain-for-discard effects, but it's still a great wheel since it only costs R.
Lands:
There are no utility lands in the deck.
2.2 - Card Options:
Dimir, Golgari, Gruul, Izzet, Rakdos, and Simic signets - Along the same vein as Mox Diamond and Mox Opal in that you can simply tap them to produce mana. Signets "filter" colorless mana into colored mana which go well with what Kydele produces. They essentially convert her colorless mana into color pair.
Dragon Mage - A wheel on a body, the only downside is having to connect with combat damage in order for the ability to trigger.
It's OK, I don't need friends - I'll play this solitaire.
Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar - Makes filtering cards that more efficient. Although expensive to cast, it's rather easy to do so with Kydele and a single U. I used to run this but it would make the games even longer since I'm sorting through 3 cards each time I draw 1 card. Just imagine having to go through this process whenever I cast a wheel - and sometimes I have more than 4 wheel effects per turn. It was too annoying to other players. Also, it's not really that necessary when drawing into so much of the deck anyways. That being said, it does greatly help facilitate whatever it is you're looking for.
Forgotten Creation - Great Tolarian Winds that's free at the beginning of your turn. However, in order to take advantage of this you'd have to wait until the beginning of your next turn (which is one reason I cut Teferi's Puzzle Box). That being said, it's great in a more casual setting where you're not winning the game outright in a single turn.
Teferi's Puzzle Box - Although amazing at increasing the draw count, it's not useful during the same turn I cast it. The aim of the deck is to blow all steam into a single turn and win in that same turn. Therefore, it would end up occupying space in my hand. The winning turn may take anywhere from 15-30mins but making the deck more efficient and streamlined significantly lowers that interval.
Red Sun's Zenith - Great mana sink that shuffles itself back into the library in order to kill off someone else. However, it only kills opponents one at a time so I found it a bit slow.
Notion Thief - Is great if you like depriving opponents of their draw all while you getting some draws. However, it basically nonbos with cards like Nekusar, the Mindrazer and its ilk. Additionally, you draw into too many cards and run the risk of decking yourself without Platinum Angel or Laboratory Maniac in play.
Kruphix, God of Horizons - This is a great way to not lose all the mana you've accumulated after you've run out of steam and can do nothing else. It's also great to tap out at the end of the turn before yours and start your turn with even more mana. You also get the bonus of having no maximum handsize. However, I found it to be winmore.
Iceberg - Similar to Gemstone Array but inferior. It's a great mana sink for storage but you have to invest 3 just to get. .in return. Definitely not that worth it in the long run. It is an enchantment, which makes it slightly harder to remove.
Bloodchief Ascension - In the long run, this card is great if you have the appropriate piece in play. However, the aim of the deck is to do as much damage in a single turn as possible. If Bloodchief Ascension isn't online for that to happen, it's just a spectator.
Hive Mind - Totally love this card in my Nekusar deck. It's also very easy to cast with Kydele in play after at least one wheel. It basically makes everyone cast the same spell as you, meaning you get to multiply your wheels for free. However, having this in play means you won't want to aftermath Ribbons, madness Avacyn's Judgment, or similar cards. So it does nonbo some wincons. That being said, you could easily include Hive Mind and just remove those types of wincons.
The Gitrog Monster - Amazing in so many decks, this frog monster shines here by letting you draw even more cards off of the lands you're discarding away. However, in the end, it was too niche and the advantages were sometimes negligible. So I ended up cutting it.
Chandra, Flamecaller - The only planeswalker that was in the deck, it's sole purpose was to give me a free "Tolarian Winds + 1" each turn. However, when going off in a single turn, it just ended up being a very costly wheel at 4RR. That being said, I do run Runehorn Hellkite which pretty much costs the same, but at least I can cast it from my graveyard.
Exsanguinate - One of the original wincons of the deck, it was removed due to it being useless in the graveyard. If I wheeled it away, I would have to wait until I was able to shuffle it back into the deck and then fish it out again. Sure, through all those hoops I would have even more mana available to me in order to cast it for a guaranteed victory, but even those were too many hoops to jump through for this deck. Cards like Cut // Ribbons and Avacyn's Judgment are just superior in that sense.
Why draw 7 cards off of Wheel of Fortune when you can draw over 50?
Consecrated Sphinx - You're able to draw an insane amount of cards all while not disallowing opponents to draw their own cards (à la Leovold and Notion Thief). However, I found it too overwhelming. Sure, there's an "if" clause and you can take advantage of it the same turn you cast it, but I almost never cast it when I had it, odd as that sounds. I hardly ever used it in the deck and haven't missed it since it was cut.
Comet Storm - Similar to Exsanguinate, this was one of the original wincons until better cards came along to mana sink that victory.
Shadow of the Grave - I have a love/hate relationship with this card. When the situation is ideal, it works great. However, most of the time, I draw it and can't use it because it's wheeled away. Then, if I can use it and I discarded a bunch of cards, it'll only make my hand too big and cause me to deck myself if I later cast a wheel like Tolarian Winds or Whispering Madness. This card was actually more trouble than what it was worth. The situation has to be too ideal for it to be remotely useful.
Geth's Grimoire - Another way to take advantage of your opponents' suffering. It was cut because I found I had way too many ways to draw cards but not enough to kill off my opponents (or wincons in general). So at the end of the day it was cut.
Mizzix's Mastery - This card is amazing since it can cast every instant and sorcery card in your graveyard for free. Which means that you can recast all of those wheels again! However, sometime I don't want to cast all my wheels because I might deck myself. And even then, if I don't cast them, they're exiled anyways. This could pose a potential problem if I end up exiling Avacyn's Judgment or Cut // Ribbons. In the end, it was too risky and wasn't included.
Mirari - Great for duplicating wheels. It's not free like Hive Mind but at least you're the one to control the copies. With all the mana you're producing, the 3 is sometimes not that impacting when you need that extra umph to close the match. Definitely worth testing.
Sakashima the Impostor - Sakashima is always great to copy legends. Copying Kydele means that you have even more mana available to you. Copying Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind or Nekusar, the Mindrazer means that you can hurt opponents even more. That being said, the deck doesn't run that many creatures. So running Sakashima would be quite iffy.
Riftsweeper - This is a great way to recover cards like Time Reversal and Time Spiral. However, with merely discarding Ulamog or Kozilek we're able to consistently shuffle the entire graveyard back into the library.
Ætherflux Reservoir - With so many spells being cast in a same turn, you could undoubtedly kill off multiple opponents with this. It's also colorless, which makes it a very viable wincon, as well.
Sunder - Used to much success in my Nekusar deck, the great thing about this card is that it fills your opponents hands and leaves them without resources to interrupt you. Even if you end up wheeling your lands away, you can always recover them afterwards (and more) with Splendid Reclamation.
Archfiend of Ifnir - With all the cards your discarding thanks to the wheeling, it's inevitable that you'll be able to kill of all of your opponents' creatures - whether they have indestructible, shroud, or hexproof (unless they have Melira in play). However, the purpose of the deck isn't to wipe the board so Archfiend of Ifnir isn't all that necessary in this build that's made to win in a single turn.
Faith of the Devoted - With so much mana produced and so many cards being discarded, this could easily be a wincon. Additionally, it combos on its own with Skirge Familiar.
Fell Specter - Megrim on a body. The only reason it's not in the deck is lack of space. It might eventually be swapped in for Raiders' Wake simply because in case of emergency it might be a good chump blocker against flyers. Oh, and it might take 2 life away from opponents the moment it enters play.
Wheel and Deal - This is a wheel against other players and not yourself. The deck wants to draw more for oneself more so than opponents. Without much support in the form of Nekusar, the Mindrazer type effects this card could be more helpful than detrimental.
Past in Flames - Great way to recycle cards in the graveyard in case you don't draw into wheels. Not in the deck for lack of space. But definitely worth including.
Thousand-Year Storm - Crazy card that can make things go real crazy real quick. Potentially giving storm to all your wheels can make this very chaotic. The only reason it's not in the deck is for lack of space. But it's definitely worth including.
The Locust God - A great alternate wincon. With all the cards being drawn you could easily produce a ridiculous amount of hasty flyers than could take out all opponents.
Jace's Erasure, Psychic Corrosion, Sphinx's Tutelage - With all the wheeling it is definitely possible to mill opponents with these cards since opponents would be drawing and then milling. So they're potentially losing cards from their deck twice as fast. That being said, taking away 40 life from an opponents is easier than milling them for 90 cards.
Niv-Mizzet, Parun - Similar to Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind. However, it is more difficult to cast than the latter, even though it's second ability is more useful.
The deck would be amazing at drawing into a whole bunch of cards and then pretty much do nothing else. Most of the time I would end up decking myself or having my key wincons countered (Exsanguinate or Comet Storm). In order to prevent this, I added yet another Eldrazi titan in order to shuffle the graveyard back into the deck and ways to sacrifice cards without the "you may" clause (Alhammarret's Archive). I also added cards in order to reduce my hand for when I have cards like Mindmoil or Arjun, the Shifting Flame in play. This has helped the deck greatly at being consistent and winning the same turn it goes off.
Since the aim of the deck is to win gung-ho in a single turn, free mana rocks were added in order to fully abuse Paradox Engine. As explained above, Teferi's Puzzle Box wouldn't be vital the same turn it was played, even though it significantly ups the draw count at the beginning of my turn. I want to streamline the deck as efficiently as possible because, once the deck goes off, my winning turn can take anywhere from 15-30mins. Once I'm steamrolling through my deck, it's just a matter of time until I acquire one of the wincons and that's it. So in order to avoid a potential solitaire, I want to pour all my efforts into a single-turn win.
The change in mana rocks was because there were too many. More mana rocks were printed with 0 cost. Also, the talismans were a good substitute since they can tap for mana without investing in mana. I was also able to add more of the new wheels that were printed in recent sets. I also improved the mana base thanks to the opponent lands from Battlebond.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Btwm Magus of the Will seems like a card that is just awesome with this deck
I considered it as well as Yawgmoth's Will. However, if I were to wheel anything, it'd get exiled; I'd only be able to get the mileage out of it by shuffling my hands instead of wheeling them. Along that same vein I was considering Mizzix's Mastery as an epic finisher. However, out of fear of exiling two other wincons I haven't added it. But it's definitely still on the testing block.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
The Locust God and Swarm Intelligence seem pretty broken for the deck! They may seem winmore but being able to amass a huge army of 1/1 hasty flyers seems like a great way to secure a win. Swarm Intelligence seems pretty steep at 6U but it allows me to basically copy any wheel I cast.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I have been playing a similar build. Staff of domination has been great. Easily allows for infinite mana after drawing a few cards and then allows you to draw your deck and get your wincons. Also, cheaper draw like brainstorm is awesome because it allows you to go off while leaving lands untapped. I'm actually considering just cutting black from the deck, which essentially removes the pain for draw and discard aspect, and then adding a few counterspells and other infinite mana wincons since it's pretty easy to get there.
With 15 mass discard effects in the deck, is Dream Salvage worth consideration despite it's niche-ness ?
Actually, that's not a bad card to consider! The only difficult thing about these types of decks is keeping track of all those things. It was one of the main headaches of running cards like Shadow of the Grave. I'd have players first discard their cards in a different pile in order to keep track. Then, at the end of the turn, put them into the graveyard. Lots of arguments over what went where and how many of what would naturally ensue. Keeping track and accounting of these kinds of things is always crucial because Molten Psyche cares about that, as well.
I have been playing a similar build. Staff of domination has been great. Easily allows for infinite mana after drawing a few cards and then allows you to draw your deck and get your wincons. Also, cheaper draw like brainstorm is awesome because it allows you to go off while leaving lands untapped. I'm actually considering just cutting black from the deck, which essentially removes the pain for draw and discard aspect, and then adding a few counterspells and other infinite mana wincons since it's pretty easy to get there.
If you remove B then it could be more streamlined and you could also add a different partner (and have more choices, to boot). It's very easy to get to infinite mana but if your wincons are countered or exiled, you won't be able to do anything. The pain effects allow me to win while I'm looking for my wincons - maybe even before I even use them. That's something to consider as well.
Oh, and welcome to the forums!
EDIT:
Actually, you've actually quite inspired me... I only run 10 black cards total (including Vial Smasher). If I were to make a Temur build, I would have to find a suitable replacement for Vial Smasher. Of those, I would have to choose one between Kraum, Ludevic's Opus, Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist, or Tana, the Bloodsower. I hardly cast Vial Smasher anyways so they'd just be there for access to R (which would also remove a slot from the rest of my library).
I would then have to find either viable substitutes for the other 9 cards with B or see if I can use the space for some other synergistic strategy. Hm... I'll have to ponder that some!
Apart from the mana base (which won't be a problem in the slightest) these are the cards lost by removing B:
The signets don't worry me as much as losing 3 wheels, 3 wincons, and Skirge Familiar. It wouldn't be impossible to restructure the deck without B, but it would slightly cripple it. But I guess that it would be a good trade-off since you'll have a cheaper and more stable mana base.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Actually, that's not a bad card to consider! The only difficult thing about these types of decks is keeping track of all those things. It was one of the main headaches of running cards like Shadow of the Grave. I'd have players first discard their cards in a different pile in order to keep track. Then, at the end of the turn, put them into the graveyard. Lots of arguments over what went where and how many of what would naturally ensue. Keeping track and accounting of these kinds of things is always crucial because Molten Psyche cares about that, as well.
I've started playing it in my creature and combo-less thrasios and vial smasher deck and dig it with fewer draw-7's than you run.
Ok, so I might reveal how much of an a-hole I am here - but in situations like that, I guesstimate a reasonable-sounding number, then subtract 10%. The table then has to either wait while someone calculates (which I'd be adamantly against regardless of what side of this deck I'm on) or put the onus of knowing a more accurate number on another player to (quickly) prove me wrong.
But usually just saying "I Wheel Of Fortuned, then Memory Jarred, then Dark Deal-ed, so it sounds like 20 is close to the right number - anyone disagree?" and unless you're playing with jerks, you should be a'ight.
Actually, that's not a bad card to consider! The only difficult thing about these types of decks is keeping track of all those things. It was one of the main headaches of running cards like Shadow of the Grave. I'd have players first discard their cards in a different pile in order to keep track. Then, at the end of the turn, put them into the graveyard. Lots of arguments over what went where and how many of what would naturally ensue. Keeping track and accounting of these kinds of things is always crucial because Molten Psyche cares about that, as well.
I've started playing it in my creature and combo-less thrasios and vial smasher deck and dig it with fewer draw-7's than you run.
Ok, so I might reveal how much of an a-hole I am here - but in situations like that, I guesstimate a reasonable-sounding number, then subtract 10%. The table then has to either wait while someone calculates (which I'd be adamantly against regardless of what side of this deck I'm on) or put the onus of knowing a more accurate number on another player to (quickly) prove me wrong.
But usually just saying "I Wheel Of Fortuned, then Memory Jarred, then Dark Deal-ed, so it sounds like 20 is close to the right number - anyone disagree?" and unless you're playing with jerks, you should be a'ight.
Lol, unfortunately I'm a mathematician and a bit OCD when it comes to legitimacy. Whether it's to my benefit or not, I like to work with the numbers - that's one of the things I love about MtG; the ridiculous numbers that occur during a multiplayer EDH game. It's why Zada, Hedron Grinder is one of my favorite decks. Without going infinite, I've given damage well into the octuple-digits.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Since the aim of the deck is to win gung-ho in a single turn, free mana rocks were added in order to fully abuse Paradox Engine. As explained above, Teferi's Puzzle Box wouldn't be vital the same turn it was played, even though it significantly ups the draw count at the beginning of my turn. I want to streamline the deck as efficiently as possible because, once the deck goes off, my winning turn can take anywhere from 15-30mins. Once I'm steamrolling through my deck, it's just a matter of time until I acquire one of the wincons and that's it. So in order to avoid a potential solitaire, I want to pour all my efforts into a single-turn win.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Yeah I agree. I have yet to remove black. My main motivation is to make the deck 1v1 legal. I like Ludevic mainly because he encourages attacking opponents if that is needed while getting set up. But I like the pain for draw/discard aspect of the deck so I am hesitant. It also gives a win-con that doesn't necessarily rely on your commander sticking around. I'm going to play with it more before switching anything out.
Yeah I agree. I have yet to remove black. My main motivation is to make the deck 1v1 legal. I like Ludevic mainly because he encourages attacking opponents if that is needed while getting set up. But I like the pain for draw/discard aspect of the deck so I am hesitant. It also gives a win-con that doesn't necessarily rely on your commander sticking around. I'm going to play with it more before switching anything out.
Yeah, losing 3 wincons just to take a color out isn't convincing. Spells can be countered but once one of the pain-for-draw or pain-for-discard cards stick, you're pretty much ensured a victory. If it weren't so uncomfortable to cast, the deck would include Underworld Dreams, as well.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Have you considered Faith of the Devoted, each wheel generates a lot of discard triggers from it which don't pay for until the wheel finishes resolving, meaning kydele can cover the cost easily.
It also works nice with skirge familiar as discarding to familiar triggers it and pays the cost for the trigger.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Have you considered Faith of the Devoted, each wheel generates a lot of discard triggers from it which don't pay for until the wheel finishes resolving, meaning kydele can cover the cost easily.
It also works nice with skirge familiar as discarding to familiar triggers it and pays the cost for the trigger.
That's a pretty good suggestion. It wouldn't trigger until after wheels finish resolving. And with each card drawn for each one discarded, Kydele could easily pay the cost 1 for 1. With Paradox Engine out, each wheel cast will untap Kydele and I can do it all over again. Also, as you mentioned, it combos on its own with just Skirge Familiar. I could try and test it out. I'd have to see what to temporarily swap it for, though...
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I'm working on a Budget Version of the deck. Considering that the deck is 4-colored and the majority of the key cards are pretty expensive, the current version of the deck cashes in at $3,444.85. So I'm pretty please with what I've been able to accomplish all while bringing that price down to $85.01. It's still more expensive than all of the other budget versions of my decks (Sidisi, Brood Tyrant @ ~$47, Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest @ ~$30, Polukranos, World Eater @ ~$76, and Zada, Hedron Grinder @ ~$35). One of the problems is the current price of Vial Smasher the Fierce, $10.99. The card isn't even that necessary beyond giving the deck access to B & R. Had there been another BR partner then the deck would've been way more cheaper, considering that Kydele only costs $2.99. Again, I'm still glad that I was able to have a viable deck for way less than what it normally costs considering everything else. I have no doubt that the deck'll be cheaper once a cheaper BR partner comes out.
I like to make budget decks that cost less than $50 (I still have to work on shaving $25 off of my Polukranos deck) but this deck will prove to be quite a challenge to get there. The mana rocks help it out with consistency as far as colors are concerned. But since most of the mana base comes into play tapped, the deck suffers a bit in tempo. Also, a lot of the cards that made it broken had to be replaced. That being said, the deck is still able to win in a single turn - it's just not as consistent in doing so. But, it still dishes out a lot of damage so you'd be able to secure a win fairly easily.
As can be seen, most of the wincons are still there. However, the broken cards like Paradox Engine, Mind Over Matter, etc. had to be cut due to price. The land base suffered only in tempo since the deck can still produce mana of all its colors. Also, most of the wheeling effects are there. Even though some are missing, the synergistic cards with wheeling are still present (Megrim, Psychosis Crawler, etc.) so you can still win via wheeling. I tried to keep most cards under $5 but cut anything over $4 except for Sunder and Cyclonic Rift. Those two cards are simply too oppressive to not include and the deck is already a bit crippled from losing most of its brutal pieces already. So having two cards between $4-5 is still okay as far as budget goes.
There's probably tons of budget cards that I overlooked that would be great here. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas I'm open to reading all of them! Thanks again for the help!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Well, but for the same cost I can activate Elixir of Immortality and shuffle the entire graveyard into the deck and gain 5 life while I'm at it. Unless I'm missing something?
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Hey, I recently made a Kydele + Vial Smasher deck and have found it to be a LOT of fun!
My list does also aim to tax my opponents for drawing and discarding, but I also use stuff like sword of the paruns and staff of domination to go infinite with Kydele and then blast everyone in the face with a massive fireball or exsanguinate.
What are your thoughts on that kind of combo finish - is it worth including, or should I just take those cards out and rely solely on wheeling people to death?
I've also seen people run Bruse Tarl for white so they can run Jeskai Ascendancy, which seems to be more of a solely combo focus rather than wheeling people to death since they don't run black.
EDIT: Sorry I realised you already answered a question about Staff of Domination, my bad!
Hey, I recently made a Kydele + Vial Smasher deck and have found it to be a LOT of fun!
My list does also aim to tax my opponents for drawing and discarding, but I also use stuff like sword of the paruns and staff of domination to go infinite with Kydele and then blast everyone in the face with a massive fireball or exsanguinate.
What are your thoughts on that kind of combo finish - is it worth including, or should I just take those cards out and rely solely on wheeling people to death?
I've also seen people run Bruse Tarl for white so they can run Jeskai Ascendancy, which seems to be more of a solely combo focus rather than wheeling people to death since they don't run black.
EDIT: Sorry I realised you already answered a question about Staff of Domination, my bad!
Welcome to the forums!
In no way shape or form am I against infinite combos. However, depending on your playgroup, it's frowned upon. Those cards are okay to include because they work with your commander - a card which you will always have access to in one way or the other.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Ixalan is just chocked full of goodies for commander. Two cards in particular tickle my fancy for this deck, though: Raiders' Wake and Primal Amulet.
Raiders' Wake is an over costed Liliana's Caress (basically costs twice as much) but having the redundancy is great for this deck. It's a wincon on its own since players are constantly wheeling. Its casting cost is probably due to the raid ability. However, in this case that ability is superfluous since we're never attacking; we're winning during a single turn by various methods, none of which involve combat damage. I just have to find a slot for it.
Primal Amulet is included simply because of the land it becomes. Being able to copy a wheel is epic in a deck like this. Although I'm not running Pyromancer's Goggles (there are only 8 red instants and/or sorceries in the deck), there are plenty of spells that add counters to Primal Amulet in order for it to transform into Primal Wellspring, which is a Pyromancer's Goggles but for instants and sorceries of any color. This is a card I could definitely get behind. It'll make games go much faster since I'm doubling the amount of wheeling.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1 - Why play this commander?
You're probably wondering if this is your run of the mill Kydele + Vial Smasher wheel deck. Yes, it is. Granted, this strategy isn't something new to Commander - just ask Nekusar!
Wheeling is already a pretty popular strategy and this ain't my first rodeo on the subject. I've been playing a solid and devoted wheel deck with Nekusar at the helm since Commander 2013 first came out. I've posted pretty extensively on it in various threads here at MTGSalvation. Additionally, I'm also building a Saskia reanimator human tribal that runs as many wheels as possible. So, what makes these partners stand out in comparison? They're actually very similar to Nekusar in spirit. The only difference is that we now have access to G, which allows for some extra awesomeness that isn't viable with Nekusar. But we'll get into that later on. Notwithstanding, Nekusar is present as one of the 98.
Unlike many people who use this combination, I'm strictly only using Kydele more so than Vial Smasher. In all honestly, I have her in here just for access to B and R; she's basically the only BR partner available to date. That's not to say Vial Smasher is completely useless, but this deck is usually making all of its plays and casting all of its spells in a single turn. So Vial Smasher is just basically doing nothing after the first spell cast. Kydele, on the other hand, provides an insane amount of mana. There are so many ways to abuse her ability here; it's ridiculous. Untapping her multiple times in a turn provides a crazy amount of mana which can then become filtered into colored mana to cast a massive amount of spells. This allows for near limitless fuel for casting tons of wheels which can outright win you the game if you have cards like Psychosis Crawler and/or Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind in play or a victory can also come via Nekusar, the Mindrazer type effects along with Megrim type effects - similar to how most Nekusar decks run, anyways.
As chaotic as it may seem, the playthrough is pretty straightforward: draw, draw, draw but don't kill yourself as you do!
Thus, you’ll enjoy playing with Vial Smasher + Kydele if you:
Okay, so let’s say you’re on board with running this established EDH deck. Let's also say you like the color combination. As far as color combination is concerned, there's really only a couple of ways to accomplish this. Also, there are few legends that can be used at the helm of a wheeling deck.
2 - Deck History:
Wheeling is a super fun deck archetype that forces you to play with no self-regard to the point of walking along the edge of suicide. While fine-tuning the deck I've lost track of all the times I'd deck myself. And don't even get me started on mana burn! If that rule was still relevant... That, to me, is one of the more fun aspects of the deck - living on the edge. The deck may run G but it is very much R.
If you're curious as to how I run my Nekusar deck, you can find that here, in this thread. Playing with this archetype since Nov. 2013 it's safe to say I know my way around wheels - no pun intended . .
Competitive Build:
Here's the competitive build. It includes many expensive cards that may be out of budget for some folks (myself included) and also very cutthroat with the possibility for plays that some may deem too degenerate or obnoxious. This is the current version I'm running and is the one I've been working on the most. It's super fun to pilot and will always have you playing on edge. This is the version of the deck I will discuss most throughout this thread. Hopefully I'll be able to develop a more budget version in an Alternate Builds section.
3 Vial Smasher the Fierce
4 Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix
Artifacts: 18
5 Alhammarret's Archive
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
0 Chrome Mox
0 Claws of Gix
4 Gemstone Array
1 Library of Leng
0 Mana Crypt
5 Memory Jar
0 Mox Amber
0 Mox Diamond
0 Mox Opal
5 Paradox Engine
1 Sol Ring
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Talisman of Impulse
2 Talisman of Indulgence
3 Thousand-Year Elixir
4 Vedalken Orrery
Creatures: 15
6 Arjun, the Shifting Flame
4 Fate Unraveler
3 Jace's Archivist
10 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Laboratory Maniac
5 Magus of the Jar
3 Magus of the Wheel
5 Nekusar, the Mindrazer
6 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
7 Platinum Angel
5 Psychosis Crawler
6 Runehorn Hellkite
5 Skirge Familiar
11 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
3 Whirlpool Warrior
3 City of Solitude
2 Liliana's Caress
3 Megrim
6 Mind Over Matter
5 Mindmoil
4 Raiders' Wake
2 Waste Not
Spells: 22
4 Ancient Excavation
10 Commit // Memory
7 Cyclonic Rift
4 Fateful Showdown
2 Tolarian Winds
4 Cut // Ribbons
3 Dark Deal
3 Flux
6 Game Plan
5 Incendiary Command
5 Khorvath's Fury
5 Laquatus's Creativity
3 Molten Psyche
5 Reforge the Soul
4 Splendid Reclamation
5 Time Reversal
6 Time Spiral
3 Timetwister
3 Wheel of Fortune
4 Whispering Madness
3 Windfall
1 Winds of Change
Lands: 36
0 Badlands
0 Bayou
0 Blood Crypt
0 Breeding Pool
0 City of Brass
0 Command Tower
0 Dragonskull Summit
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Exotic Orchard
0 Forest
0 Hinterland Harbor
0 Island
0 Karplusan Forest
0 Llanowar Wastes
0 Luxury Suite
0 Mana Confluence
0 Mountain
0 Overgrown Tomb
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Rootbound Crag
0 Shivan Reef
0 Spire Garden
0 Spire of Industry
0 Steam Vents
0 Stomping Ground
0 Sulfur Falls
0 Sulfurous Springs
0 Taiga
0 Tropical Island
0 Underground River
0 Underground Sea
0 Volcanic Island
0 Watery Grave
0 Woodland Cemetery
0 Yavimaya Coast
5 Memory Jar
3 Jace's Archivist
5 Magus of the Jar
3 Magus of the Wheel
6 Runehorn Hellkite
3 Whirlpool Warrior
6 Commit // Memory
3 Dark Deal
5 Incendiary Command
3 Molten Psyche
5 Reforge the Soul
5 Time Reversal
6 Time Spiral
3 Timetwister
3 Wheel of Fortune
4 Whispering Madness
3 Windfall
1 Winds of Change
6 Game Plan
5 Khorvath's Fury
Draw Acceleration:
5 Alhammarret's Archive
6 Arjun, the Shifting Flame
5 Mindmoil
4 Ancient Excavation
4 Fateful Showdown
2 Tolarian Winds
3 Flux
5 Laquatus's Creativity
Wincons:
4 Fate Unraveler
3 Laboratory Maniac
5 Nekusar, the Mindrazer
6 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
5 Psychosis Crawler
2 Liliana's Caress
3 Megrim
4 Raiders' Wake
2 Cut // Ribbons
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Gemstone Array
4 Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix
1 Sol Ring
0 Chrome Mox
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Amber
0 Mox Diamond
0 Mox Opal
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Talisman of Impulse
2 Talisman of Indulgence
Toolbox:
0 Claws of Gix
1 Library of Leng
5 Paradox Engine
3 Thousand-Year Elixir
4 Vedalken Orrery
10 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
7 Platinum Angel
5 Skirge Familiar
11 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
3 City of Solitude
6 Mind Over Matter
2 Cyclonic Rift
4 Splendid Reclamation
3 Vial Smasher the Fierce
Lands:
0 Badlands
0 Bayou
0 Blood Crypt
0 Breeding Pool
0 City of Brass
0 Command Tower
0 Dragonskull Summit
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Exotic Orchard
0 Hinterland Harbor
0 Karplusan Forest
0 Llanowar Wastes
0 Mana Confluence
0 Overgrown Tomb
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Rootbound Crag
0 Shivan Reef
0 Spire of Industry
0 Steam Vents
0 Stomping Ground
0 Sulfur Falls
0 Sulfurous Springs
0 Taiga
0 Tropical Island
0 Underground River
0 Underground Sea
0 Volcanic Island
0 Watery Grave
0 Woodland Cemetery
0 Yavimaya Coast
0 Luxury Suite
0 Morphic Pool
0 Spire Garden
0 Forest
0 Island
0 Mountain
Synergy & Combos:
The deck runs many ways to hurt opponents when everyone is wheeling. However, one of the main things the deck wants to do is draw - even if it's one-sided. Drawing a whole bunch of cards allows Kydele to tap for a ton of mana. This can be accomplished not only by wheeling but by simply drawing into a whole bunch of cards by other means. The cards that help me the most are Arjun, the Shifting Flame and Mindmoil. With every spell I cast my hand is "refreshed" and those draws count towards Kydele tapping for a ton of mana. This becomes even more brutal when combined with Alhammarret's Archive. Be warned, though: without Platinum Angel or Laboratory Maniac, this is fastest way to deck yourself. If you have the archive in play, then you're basically drawing twice as many cards each time you cast a spell - and they add up. A good way to prevent this is by discarding a lot of cards thanks to Skirge Protector or Mind Over Matter, which not only help at slowing down these effects, but can also give you tons of B while Mind Over Matter can untap Kydele. So it's win/win.
Staples to the wheeling archetype are cards that punish opponents for drawing and/or discarding. Drawing is inevitable with wheels. Even if you cast wheels like Windfall or Whispering Madness, an opponent with an empty hand will still draw cards. Since this deck is constantly wheeling into its wincons, this is a great way to get that victory. Sometimes that aftermathed Ribbons or madnessed Avacyn's Judgment will be countered. However, if you already have something like Fate Unraveler or Liliana's Carees in play and are able to get enough wheels to go off, you can easily kill off the table. The control players won't be able to counter every wheel (usually).
The deck is totally devoted to punishing opponents for every wheel effect. However, maybe you want to run a deck that doesn't really on opponents' hands. That's fine because the player drawing most is you! You could bypass all cards that punish the opponents for their actions in lieu of opening slots for other things. You could then only run cards that care about you drawing. Drawing into so much of the deck could give you the victory on the spot - since you're drawing tons of cards per turn. So maybe just running Psychosis Crawler and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is enough.
It's very easy to deck yourself with this deck. I've mentioned it quite extensively before. Sure, you want to draw as many cards as possible, but sometimes you get so much steam you can explode. Sometimes, there's no way back and you get stuck without being able to win. For example, if you have Mindmoil and Alhammarret's Archive in play, you could easily deck yourself by casting maybe 4 spells. Sometimes there's no way around it. If one of those spells isn't something to either prevent you from decking yourself, to fill your library more to give you some time, to discard some cards to make your hand smaller, to prevent you from losing (Platinum Angel), or have you win because of it (Laboratory Maniac), then you're pretty much dead. After much testing and finding myself in this situation, I found that the best thing to do was to either sacrifice Alhammarret's Archive or discard cards from your hand. So I added Claws of Gix, Skirge Familiar, and Mind Over Matter. Maybe you've accumulated too much steam; you could discard cards to lower your hand. Either way, all three cards work great on their own. You could sacrifice a bunch of tapped lands or other permanents to get some life with Claws of Gix and fill your graveyard. That way, when you shuffle your graveyard into your deck, you get a fatter deck, too. Skirge Familiar can add cards to the graveyard (like Cut // Ribbons, Commit // Memory, or Runehorn Hellkite) or give you the opportunity to play Avacyn's Judgment all while giving you mana in the process. Mind Over Matter does the same thing and it can be used to untap things like Kydele, Candelabra of Tawnos, Jace's Archivist, mana rocks, lands, etc. Definitely some great cards to add.
Unfortunately, Kydele can only produce . . That's not a problem, however, since there are ways to filter that colorless mana into colored mana. The signets can give you two colors for . , you could literally filter that mana with Gemstone Array (which also doubles as mana storage), or untap your lands with Candelabra of Tawnos. This is very crucial since you're going to want to keep Kydele untapped until you're able to untap her various times in a turn. So your main source of mana are from the mana rocks and lands. If your only source of mana is the colorless provided by Kydele, you need a way to filter it in order to keep wheeling and/or drawing into your deck.
The purpose of the deck is to get Kydele out as quickly as possible and wheel into more wheels as fast as possible. An ideal hand should have at least 3 lands and 1 mana rock. The deck runs so many wheels and one-sided wheels that you're bound to draw into one should you not get one in your opening hand. Additionally, there are many cards to filter your hand like Mindmoil, Arjun, the Shifting Flame, etc. which you're also bound to draw into. So just make sure you get an early Kydele casting.
Early game:
You want to get Kydele in play as quickly as possible. Sure, this may make her susceptible to spot removal early on. That being said, she's relatively cheap to cast and the deck runs a lot of mana rocks and ways to produce mana should you need to recast her. Once Kydele is out and able to give you mana, try and wheel as quickly as possible. Not only do you draw cards to get lots of mana from Kydele, but you're sifting through your deck for important cards like Paradox Engine and Thousand-Year Elixir. These allow you to untap Kydele multiple times in a single turn and really get that chain of wheels rolling.
Mid Game:
The deck aims to not simply wheel and draw for the sake of physically shifting cards around - unless you have pain for draw and/or discard effects in play. You want to eventually burn your opponent or win by decking yourself thanks to Laboratory Maniac. By midgame you should already have some form of harming your opponent in play (whether with Fate Unraveler, Psychosis Crawler, Megrim, etc.) which will allow you to secure the victory with only a couple of wheels. Additionally, you should have cards to accelerate your drawing like Mindmoil, Arjun, Alhammarret's Archive, etc.
Late Game:
Since the deck wins after some intense digging through the deck, it's very easy to go from early game to midgame and straight to late game. If you're able to get a Liliana's Caress or Megrim early on and wheel a couple of times then you've already won. If you're able to produce an insane amount of mana and then cast Avacyn's Judgment for its madness cost or cast Cut // Ribbons from the graveyard, you've just won. Another great way to win is by having Laboratory Maniac in play and decking yourself. However, know that it's not uncommon to win by merely trickling down your opponents with draw-for-pain or discard-for-pain effects throughout various turns. Yet, the main goal is to draw as many cards as possible in a single turn and get secure the win right then and there.
A commander deck has 100 cards. Out of which I already explained most of the contents of my deck in great detail. However, if you want even greater detail, click the spoiler to see a list explaining every single card in the deck that is not a mana producing, non-utility land.
Artifacts:
- Alhammarret's Archive – This is the fastest way to draw a buttload of cards. It is a double-edged sword however, since a lot of wheels have you draw the same amount of cards as those discarded, which has you pretty much doubling your hand each time. Combined with cards like Mindmoil it can get pretty dangerous. However, as long you have Platinum Angel or Laboratory Maniac in play, you can safely draw your entire library.
- Candelabra of Tawnos – One of the best filters in the deck. All lands in the deck potentially give colored mana. So when Kydele taps for colorless, you can invest that into the candelabra to untap your lands and have access to colored mana once again. Definitely a great card in the deck. When combined with Paradox Engine, you can potentially untap all your lands as well with each spell you cast.
- Claws of Gix – Constant testing proved that sometimes drawing so many cards is a problem - especially when the cards making you draw have no "you may" clause. This means that I needed a killswitch to prevent these cards from making me kill myself. This card is also great to fill your graveyard and then shuffle it back into your library to make your library large again. For example, you can sacrifice your lands, get some life, then recover the lands with Splendid Reclamation. You can also sacrifice Mindmoil and Arjun if you need to cast spells in your hand without having them get bottomdecked. Or, more importantly, sacrifice Alhammarret's Archive before it kills you. Also, this allows you to cast the Eldrazi Titans to actually use them, then sacrifice them when you need to recover your graveyard.
- Gemstone Array – One of the best filters of the deck. For 2 you can get one mana of any color. This is crucial when all of your colored sources are tapped out. Even though Kydele can give you a large amount of colorless mana, without any color you can't cast any wheels (apart from Memory Jar). Not only that, but you can also store mana if you run out of steam and need to win in subsequent turns.
- Library of Leng – I love this card in my Nekusar and I love it here. If you're going to draw too many cards off of a wheel due to Alhammarret's Archive, you can just put your entire hand onto your library and then draw it back as well as the new cards. You can also basically filter what your discarding away when wheeling. It also has the added bonus of giving you no maximum hand size. It's cheap to cast, as well. It's just a great card to have.
- Mana Crypt - Amazing mana rock that's now relatively easier to acquire thanks to Eternal Masters. This allows for a turn 2 Kydele without any other mana rocks. However, with other 0 mana rocks you can get a turn 1 Kydele.
- Memory Jar – A colorless wheel. Kydele loves that since you're able to wheel off of the colored mana in a pinch and save that colored mana for those U, B, or R wheels.
- Paradox Engine – Quite easily the most broken card in the deck. Every spell I cast untaps all of my nonland permanents. That means Kydele, all the mana rocks, and cards like Candelabra of Tawnos, Jace's Archivist, Thousand-Year Elixir, etc. This allows for a ridiculous amount of mana to be produced and pretty much guarantees that Ribbons or Avacyn's Judgment will win you the game.
- Sol Ring - Standard EDH mana rock. Without any other mana rocks, this grants a Kydele as early as turn 2. Should definitely be included.
- Thousand-Year Elixir – Not only does this allow creatures like Kydele, Jace's Archivist, and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind to tap the turn they come into play, but you can also use it to untap Kydele and get a lot more mana in a single turn. Definitely one of the best tools in the toolbox.
- Vedalken Orrery - Sometimes you don't want to discard or shuffle away some great cards in your hands. With Vedalken Orrery out you can cast spells in your hand in response to wheels resolving. That way you can take advantage of your hand while you have it before wheeling. I run this over Leyline of Anticipation because even though the latter could enter for free before the game even starts, Vedalken Orrery is colorless and can be cast without investing colored mana.
- every available mox - Running a 4-colored deck that's dependent on being able to untap your mana rocks means that it's vital to add in as many rocks as possible. These 0 mana rocks (Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mox Amber, and Mox Opal) are great for when Paradox Engine is in play. They're also clutch early game for a quick Kydele casting. You could literally get a turn 1 Kydele with relative ease.
- every available talisman – The reason for running Talisman of Dominance, Talisman of Impulse, and Talisman of Indulgence is because they're cheap to cast and become even more useful when combined with Paradox Engine. Then again, what doesn't become broken with Paradox Engine? .
- Arjun, the Shifting Flame – Mindmoil on a body, this card is amazing at getting that draw count high for Kydele. Although you have to bottomdeck your hand each time you cast a spell, at least you're not discarding away your hand. It is a bit expensive to cast but if you can't win in that same turn, at least you have a 5/5 flyer, which is a great blocker.
- Fate Unraveler - Used primarily to punish opponents during wheeling. Used as part of the strategy of the main wincon.
- Jace's Archivist – Although it has summoning sickness, once you have Thousand-Year Elixir in play you can tap if for wheeling. Even so, if you have it in play since a previous turn, you could use it to wheel. The great thing about this creature is having it in play with Paradox Engine. You can very easily use it to kill off opponents with so much wheeling - even going so far as decking them.
- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth – Although easy to cast since it's colorless (and provides 4 cards when doing so), it's major use is to shuffle the graveyard into the library in order to prevent decking (or to protect your graveyard from being exiled).
- Laboratory Maniac – Used an alternate wincon, it's very easy to pull off with the constant wheeling and drawing.
- Magus of the Jar – Literally Memory Jar on a body, so it has the con of summoning sickness. However, once you get Thousand-Year Elixir in play, you can tap it on the same turn you play it.
- Magus of the Wheel – Literally Wheel of Fortune on a body, so it has the con of summoning sickness. However, once you get Thousand-Year Elixir in play, you can tap it on the same turn you play it.
- Nekusar, the Mindrazer – The original commander of the deck is still useful here as a way to hurt opponents whenever they draw a card as part of the main wincon of the deck.
- Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind – Used as part of the main wincon of the deck. It's even more viable as a wincon since you're going to be drawing way more cards than your opponents.
- Platinum Angel – Its main use is to prevent suicide by self-milling. Having this in play removes the risk of decking yourself. Well, as long as it's not removed from the battlefield in response to decking yourself.
- Psychosis Crawler – Used as part of the main wincon of the deck. It's even more viable as a wincon since you're going to be drawing way more cards than your opponents.
- Runehorn Hellkite – Is pretty much only used as a wheel cast from the graveyard. This is great for when you're wheeling things since it gives you the option of getting that extra wheel without having it in your hand.
- Skirge Familiar – Used to reduce the size of your hand in order to protect you from Alhammarret's Archive being combined with Mindmoil. It also provides lots of B as a byproduct, as well.
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre – Used for the same purpose as Kozilek, Butcher of Truth but has the added bonus of destroying a permanent if you ever cast it.
- Whirlpool Warrior – Winds of Change on a body which can be done twice in the same turn without having to tap it.
- City of Solitude – One of the main reasons of including G (sorry, Nekusar!) since this pretty much protects your turn. Having this in play means being able to go all out without having to worry about any opponents disrupting your plays. Once you resolve City of Solitude it's pretty much game over. Definitely one of the best cards in the deck.
- Liliana's Caress – Used as part of the main wincon of the deck which is to hurt opponents during wheeling.
- Megrim – Used as part of the main wincon of the deck which is to hurt opponents during wheeling.
- Mind Over Matter – Used to reduce the size of your hand in order to protect you from Alhammarret's Archive being combined with Mindmoil. Although being a trifle difficult to cast in a 4-colored deck due to the quadruple blue, this card makes it that much easier to produce an absurd amount of mana. Being able to untap Kydele, mana rocks, lands, Jace's Archivist, etc. makes this card too broken to not include.
- Mindmoil – This card is amazing at getting that draw count high for Kydele. Although you have to bottomdeck your hand each time you cast a spell, at least you're not discarding away your hand.
- Raiders' Wake - Megrim is more expensive than Liliana's Caress and this one is more expensive than Megrim. The raid effect of this card is practically null in this deck; it's inclusion is simply for redundant Megrim effects.
- Waste Not - An amazing card with a wheeling deck. All bonuses are good but the one that matters most for effects of the deck is the mana producing one. This allows to continue chaining into more wheels, storing the mana in Gemstone Array if you do run out of steam, or to play more things from the hand.
- Ancient Excavation – A great way to up the draw count in a turn all while "filtering" the cards in your hand. The deck also runs 8 basic lands so it can at least net you a basic land in a pinch.
- Commit // Memory – Although Commit can help in a bind, the main part of the card that's used is Memory, which is pretty much a Time Reversal you can cast from your graveyard (albeit at sorcery speed).
- Cyclonic Rift – One of the best cards to do preceding a wheel. If you bounce all of your oppponents' nonland permanents, their hands are gonna be huge. So casting wheels like Windfall and Whispering Madness means that everyone will be drawing way more cards than with a usual wheel (like Wheel of Fortune or Reforge the Soul which limits it to 7).
- Fateful Showdown – This is basically a Tolarian Winds that has the benefit of burning a creature or player. When you have a significant amount of cards in your hand it could potentially take out an opponent all while wheeling your hand.
- Tolarian Winds – Another oldschool wheel, this is just a one-sided wheel. However, these types of wheels are still useful in the deck since it ups the draw count for Kydele and can still hurt opponents if you have cards like Psychosis Crawler or Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind in play.
- Cut // Ribbons – Cut is basically never used but Ribbons is an alternate wincon along the same vein as Avacyn's Judgment. Since it's cast from the graveyard, it doesn't matter if it was wheeled away.
- Dark Deal – An odd wheel that has a global Tolarian Winds-minus-1 effect but a wheel nonetheless.
- Flux – This gives opponents the option of filtering their hands so they may choose not to if you have cards that ping for draw or discard in play. However, its main purpose is for you to take advantage of it. Oh, and you cantrip afterwards as a bonus.
- Game Plan - Once opponents realize what the deck is about I doubt any of them would want to assist in paying this spell's casting cost (although in a 2-headed giant game this spell might be much cheaper to cast). That being said, it is another solid wheel which is what the deck wants to keep doing (costing the same as Time Spiral without the land untapping effect).
- Incendiary Command – The wheel option is always used. The other option I tend to use is to destroy a nonbasic land or giving that extra 4 points of damage to an opponent's face (or planeswalker).
- Khorvath's Fury - Can be used to keep wheeling which can also hurt opponents while also disrupting them and refilling your hand. However, when in the absence of pain-for-draw effects, you can choose the burn mode and hurt opponents with large hands that they've probably gotten due to previous wheeling. Definitely a versatile wheel.
- Laquatus's Creativity – A very expensive Tolarian Winds but you can use it against an opponent to give that final push to their death.
- Molten Psyche – Running this means that you have to be aware of how many cards your opponents have drawn in a single turn (not just you for Kydele) so have a notepad ready. This is easily one of the best wheels in the deck because it could potentially win you the match right then and there.
- Reforge the Soul - An expensive Wheel of Fortune that your're hardly able to cast for its miracle cost since you're inevitably going to be casting it after you draw into it when drawing through most of your deck. That being said, it's still a wheel so it's still part of the main wincon.
- Splendid Reclamation - Another bonus of running G; with so many wheels you're going to fill your graveyard with lands. Getting them into play with Splendid Reclamation is simply an amazing play. Untapping them all afterwards with Candelabra of Tawnos is just icing on the cake.
- Time Reversal - A great wheel that helps you recover your graveyard. Although it helps opponents recover their graveyard as well, potentially preventing them from being decked, the purpose of our deck isn't to mill an opponent, so it's no biggie. Besides, if you have City of Solitude in play, it doesn't matter what your opponents recover; they won't be able to play or activate anything.
- Time Spiral - Pretty much the same as Time Reversal. However, even though it costs 1 more than Time Reversal, you're able to untap 6 lands for casting it.
- Timetwister - The granddaddy of wheels along with Wheel of Fortune. Timetwister costs about half of similar spells (Commit // Memory, Game Plan, Time Reversal, Time Spiral) and you don't have to exile it. There's a reason it's part of the Power Nine.
- Wheel of Fortune - The original wheel, which is why these types of spells are called "wheels". It's cheap to cast and can net you 7 cards regardless of how many cards you had in your hand. It's also global so your opponents have to discard and draw as well, meaning they get hurt by Megrim, Fate Unraveler, etc.
- Whispering Madness - The great thing about this wheel is that it can net you way more than 7 cards because you draw the greatest amount of what someone discarded. Using this as a follow-up to an overloaded Cyclonic Rift can be really brutal as far as drawing cards and hurting opponents go.
- Windfall - Similar to Whispering Madness but easier to cast since it costs 1 less and only needs one color. Again, using this as a follow-up to an overloaded Cyclonic Rift can be really brutal as far as drawing cards and hurting opponents go.
- Winds of Change - A wheel where cards aren't discarded; they're shuffled back into the library. It doesn't activate the pain-for-discard effects, but it's still a great wheel since it only costs R.
Creatures:
Enchantments:
Spells:
Lands:
There are no utility lands in the deck.
3 - Alternate Builds:
4 - Change log:
1 Comet Storm
1 Exsanguinate
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 Notion Thief
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Forgotten Creation
1 Dragon Mage
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Waste Not
1 Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Megrim
1 Liliana's Caress
1 Fate Unraveler
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1 Nekusar, the Mindrazer
1 Forgotten Creation
1 Dragon Mage
1 Skirge Familiar
1 Claws of Gix
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
0 Forest
0 Island
0 Mountain
0 Swamp
2 Fellwar Stone
4 Teferi's Puzzle Box
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Forbidden Orchard
0 Chrome Mox
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Diamond
0 Mox Opal
2 Dimir Signet
2 Golgari Signet
2 Gruul Signet
2 Izzet Signet
2 Rakdos Signet
2 Simic Signet
2 Avacyn's Judgment
3 Collective Defiance
0 Cascading Cataracts
0 Forbidden Orchard
0 Swamp
0 Mox Amber
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Talisman of Impulse
2 Talisman of Indulgence
4 Raiders' Wake
2 Waste Not
6 Game Plan
5 Khorvath's Fury
0 Luxury Suite
0 Morphic Pool
0 Spire Garden
5 - Acknowledgments:
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Thanks!
I considered it as well as Yawgmoth's Will. However, if I were to wheel anything, it'd get exiled; I'd only be able to get the mileage out of it by shuffling my hands instead of wheeling them. Along that same vein I was considering Mizzix's Mastery as an epic finisher. However, out of fear of exiling two other wincons I haven't added it. But it's definitely still on the testing block.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Actually, that's not a bad card to consider! The only difficult thing about these types of decks is keeping track of all those things. It was one of the main headaches of running cards like Shadow of the Grave. I'd have players first discard their cards in a different pile in order to keep track. Then, at the end of the turn, put them into the graveyard. Lots of arguments over what went where and how many of what would naturally ensue. Keeping track and accounting of these kinds of things is always crucial because Molten Psyche cares about that, as well.
If you remove B then it could be more streamlined and you could also add a different partner (and have more choices, to boot). It's very easy to get to infinite mana but if your wincons are countered or exiled, you won't be able to do anything. The pain effects allow me to win while I'm looking for my wincons - maybe even before I even use them. That's something to consider as well.
Oh, and welcome to the forums!
EDIT:
Actually, you've actually quite inspired me... I only run 10 black cards total (including Vial Smasher). If I were to make a Temur build, I would have to find a suitable replacement for Vial Smasher. Of those, I would have to choose one between Kraum, Ludevic's Opus, Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist, or Tana, the Bloodsower. I hardly cast Vial Smasher anyways so they'd just be there for access to R (which would also remove a slot from the rest of my library).
I would then have to find either viable substitutes for the other 9 cards with B or see if I can use the space for some other synergistic strategy. Hm... I'll have to ponder that some!
Apart from the mana base (which won't be a problem in the slightest) these are the cards lost by removing B:
The signets don't worry me as much as losing 3 wheels, 3 wincons, and Skirge Familiar. It wouldn't be impossible to restructure the deck without B, but it would slightly cripple it. But I guess that it would be a good trade-off since you'll have a cheaper and more stable mana base.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I've started playing it in my creature and combo-less thrasios and vial smasher deck and dig it with fewer draw-7's than you run.
Ok, so I might reveal how much of an a-hole I am here - but in situations like that, I guesstimate a reasonable-sounding number, then subtract 10%. The table then has to either wait while someone calculates (which I'd be adamantly against regardless of what side of this deck I'm on) or put the onus of knowing a more accurate number on another player to (quickly) prove me wrong.
But usually just saying "I Wheel Of Fortuned, then Memory Jarred, then Dark Deal-ed, so it sounds like 20 is close to the right number - anyone disagree?" and unless you're playing with jerks, you should be a'ight.
Lol, unfortunately I'm a mathematician and a bit OCD when it comes to legitimacy. Whether it's to my benefit or not, I like to work with the numbers - that's one of the things I love about MtG; the ridiculous numbers that occur during a multiplayer EDH game. It's why Zada, Hedron Grinder is one of my favorite decks. Without going infinite, I've given damage well into the octuple-digits.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
0 Forest
0 Island
0 Mountain
0 Swamp
2 Fellwar Stone
4 Teferi's Puzzle Box
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Forbidden Orchard
0 Chrome Mox
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Diamond
0 Mox Opal
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Yeah, losing 3 wincons just to take a color out isn't convincing. Spells can be countered but once one of the pain-for-draw or pain-for-discard cards stick, you're pretty much ensured a victory. If it weren't so uncomfortable to cast, the deck would include Underworld Dreams, as well.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
It also works nice with skirge familiar as discarding to familiar triggers it and pays the cost for the trigger.
That's a pretty good suggestion. It wouldn't trigger until after wheels finish resolving. And with each card drawn for each one discarded, Kydele could easily pay the cost 1 for 1. With Paradox Engine out, each wheel cast will untap Kydele and I can do it all over again. Also, as you mentioned, it combos on its own with just Skirge Familiar. I could try and test it out. I'd have to see what to temporarily swap it for, though...
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
1 Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix
1 Vial Smasher the Fierce
Artifacts: 16
1 Claws of Gix
1 Dimir Signet
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Gemstone Array
1 Geth's Grimoire
1 Golgari Signet
1 Gruul Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Library of Leng
1 Mirari
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Talisman of Impulse
Creatures: 19
1 Archfiend of Ifnir
1 Arjun, the Shifting Flame
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Fate Unraveler
1 Forgotten Creation
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Magus of the Candelabra
1 Magus of the Jar
1 Nekusar, the Mindrazer
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1 Notion Thief
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Runehorn Hellkite
1 Skirge Familiar
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 Whirlpool Drake
1 Whirlpool Rider
1 Whirlpool Warrior
1 Faith of the Devoted
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Liliana's Caress
1 Megrim
1 Underworld Dreams
1 Waste Not
Spells: 20
1 Ancient Excavation
1 Commit // Memory
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Fateful Showdown
1 Sunder
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Wheel and Deal
1 Avacyn's Judgment
1 Collective Defiance
1 Cut // Ribbons
1 Dark Deal
1 Flux
1 Incendiary Command
1 Laquatus's Creativity
1 Molten Psyche
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Splendid Reclamation
1 Time Reversal
1 Whispering Madness
1 Windfall
Lands: 37
1 Crosis's Catacombs
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Darigaaz's Caldera
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Exotic Orchard
4 Forest
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gruul Guildgate
1 Gruul Turf
4 Island
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Izzet Guildgate
4 Mountain
1 Opulent Palace
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Savage Lands
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Simic Guildgate
4 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
I like to make budget decks that cost less than $50 (I still have to work on shaving $25 off of my Polukranos deck) but this deck will prove to be quite a challenge to get there. The mana rocks help it out with consistency as far as colors are concerned. But since most of the mana base comes into play tapped, the deck suffers a bit in tempo. Also, a lot of the cards that made it broken had to be replaced. That being said, the deck is still able to win in a single turn - it's just not as consistent in doing so. But, it still dishes out a lot of damage so you'd be able to secure a win fairly easily.
As can be seen, most of the wincons are still there. However, the broken cards like Paradox Engine, Mind Over Matter, etc. had to be cut due to price. The land base suffered only in tempo since the deck can still produce mana of all its colors. Also, most of the wheeling effects are there. Even though some are missing, the synergistic cards with wheeling are still present (Megrim, Psychosis Crawler, etc.) so you can still win via wheeling. I tried to keep most cards under $5 but cut anything over $4 except for Sunder and Cyclonic Rift. Those two cards are simply too oppressive to not include and the deck is already a bit crippled from losing most of its brutal pieces already. So having two cards between $4-5 is still okay as far as budget goes.
There's probably tons of budget cards that I overlooked that would be great here. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas I'm open to reading all of them! Thanks again for the help!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Well, but for the same cost I can activate Elixir of Immortality and shuffle the entire graveyard into the deck and gain 5 life while I'm at it. Unless I'm missing something?
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Well, I did fit it into the budget version, lol. With all the testing I've done with the one in the OP, I've never needed it.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
The Locust God + Kindred Discovery = unstoppable draw
Combine that with Laboratory Maniac, Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, or Psychosis Crawler for an automatic win.
I just know that Kindred Discovery is 100% going into my The Locust God deck.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My list does also aim to tax my opponents for drawing and discarding, but I also use stuff like sword of the paruns and staff of domination to go infinite with Kydele and then blast everyone in the face with a massive fireball or exsanguinate.
What are your thoughts on that kind of combo finish - is it worth including, or should I just take those cards out and rely solely on wheeling people to death?
I've also seen people run Bruse Tarl for white so they can run Jeskai Ascendancy, which seems to be more of a solely combo focus rather than wheeling people to death since they don't run black.
EDIT: Sorry I realised you already answered a question about Staff of Domination, my bad!
Welcome to the forums!
In no way shape or form am I against infinite combos. However, depending on your playgroup, it's frowned upon. Those cards are okay to include because they work with your commander - a card which you will always have access to in one way or the other.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!