MTG Salvation

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Welcome to Grenzo, Havoc Raiser

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When I saw Grenzo, Havoc Raiser spoiled I knew that this was going to be a fun type of commander. New grenzo says that when A CREATURE you control deals combat damage you either get to exile a card from that players library and play it until end of turn using mana as if it was any color, or you can goad one of defending players creatures. He sadly is mono red, but he decided that if he cant have other colors in his deck than he would take everyone else's colorful cards. My idea for this grenzo deck was to go and get out a crud ton of creatures and a crud ton of mana rocks to then swing wide and take your opponents big cards and play them using all the mana rocks you have out. This deck doesn't really run any real removal because you'll be getting all your removal from other players. Just think of swinging in with 7 creatures and having all of them hit that is a whole new hand that you get to play with that turn.

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So during the early game (turns 1-5) you want to try and get a few creatures and/or mana rocks out. A good opening hand has at least 1-2 creatures and 1-2 mana rocks and a 2+ lands. You want to try and get grenzo out early (turn 2) so that you can possibly get some early ramp, more small creatures, or permanently exile one of their win cons. Once you get a few creatures early you can start to hit players and either get some of their cards or goad their creatures so that they now have to lose their blockers so that you can repeat the process. Some of the best creatures to get out early are Goblin Rabblemaster, Hanweir Garrison, Prophetic Flamespeaker, and Markov Blademaster. Those creatures either throw out more creatures so that you can get more triggers off of grenzo which translates to more cards from your opponents decks. If your opening hand hand doesn't have many creatures in it then you are bound to have at least one or two mana rocks in it. Then you just want to get at least grenzo and one more creature out with your mana rocks so that you can start having your game translate into the mid game faster than your opponents, and you can play most of your hits off of grenzo.

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Once you get into the mid game (turn 6-10) you want to get a good creature base to where you can start goading your enemies creatures so that your safe from attacks from your enemies and then stealing cards with the extra creatures that hit. you want to practically always leave your mana up for 2nd main phase so that you can play the cards you exile from your opponent's decks. By this time in the game you really want to hold back your cards in hand and just start playing off of your opponents decks in case of board wipes and removal they'll instead be getting rid of their cards from your field and you will still have cards in hand to play. You will also want to get a win con out to force your opponents to deal with your major threats, and if they can't then you will probably end up winning pretty quickly.

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Good ol late game (turn 10+) the part of the game where this deck starts to really slow down compared to others. This is the time when big beater decks start throwing out all their fatties that beat our little goblins hard, when combo decks start trying to assemble their engines, and swarm decks to start swinging with more than you. This is when we need to start pushing our advantage HARD because if we don't we most likely won't be able to come back. The reason we can't come back is because in order for us to answer anything we need to be able to hit an opponent and get their answers so if you can't hit opponents for their answers then you are not in a good place. The best win cons are imo Obliterate, Hellkite Charger, Moonveil Dragon, and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Other ways to finish people off is by either getting mass evasion like Pyreheart wolf, Goblin Diplomats, and Void Winnower or by getting ways to kill them indirectly with cards like Purphoros, God of the Forge and Hellrider. You can still get win cons from your opponent's decks, but it will most likely be just fatties or really strong spells but nothing really synergistic.

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Thank you for reviewing this if you have any thoughts on additions to this deck please let me know in a comment down below.

Rogue's Passage and Bedlam look good here. And because of how much better your gameplan is when Grenzo is in play, I'd want a few more ways to protect him on top of Swiftfoot Boots like Lightning Greaves, Champion's Helm or Goblin Chirurgeon. Also, what's Obliterate for?

I concur. The idea is super solid but too dependent on the new Grenzo. I also suggest ways to protect him from wraths like Darksteel Plate and Shield of Kaldra.

What about mana rocks like Fellwar Stone, Darksteel Ingot, Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic and Gilded Lotus? And lands such as City of Brass, Exotic Orchard, and Mana Confluence? I know you don't need them to cast the spells off Grenzo, but what about activated abilities of spells cast off him? It seems like one of the worst feelings would be to steal someone's Selvala, Heart of the Wilds or Realm Seekers and never being able to use their abilities.

I also agree with the posters above. You definitely need ways to protect him as your deck seems to be all in on having him on the battlefield.

Also, maybe War Cadence to help get your creatures through? Bedlam ir probably better as it doesn't require a mana investment, but War Cadence still lets you block on your turn if you want. Archetype of Aggression also helps get your creatures to deal damage to your opponents.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Rogue's Passage and Bedlam look good here. And because of how much better your gameplan is when Grenzo is in play, I'd want a few more ways to protect him on top of Swiftfoot Boots like Lightning Greaves, Champion's Helm or Goblin Chirurgeon. Also, what's Obliterate for?

I like your ideas I'll try and probably get a copy of Bedlam and Champion's Helm cause I do agree that he needs more protection and more evasion but this was made with everything that I had around and couldn't find a greaves yet but I know I have one lying around. And Obliterate is in here for game finishers (it has in fact already won me one game) what I had done with it was float 11 mana with a full hand 2nd main without land played for turn I had hit a Darksteel Ingot land and a beater off of the mayael player so I use 8 obliterate 3 floating play darksteel play land and then play goblin diplomats and I still had 2 land in hand and a worn powerstone and everyone else had maybe 2-4 cards in hand. So obliterate lets you restart the game practically 4 turns ahead of everyone else if done correctly.

Quote from DementedKirby »

I concur. The idea is super solid but too dependent on the new Grenzo. I also suggest ways to protect him from wraths like Darksteel Plate and Shield of Kaldra.

I'll try out the Darksteel Plate I had forgotten a lot of protection cards cause recasting him wasnt much of a problem since he is so cheap.

Quote from WizardMN »

What about mana rocks like Fellwar Stone, Darksteel Ingot, Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic and Gilded Lotus? And lands such as City of Brass, Exotic Orchard, and Mana Confluence? I know you don't need them to cast the spells off Grenzo, but what about activated abilities of spells cast off him? It seems like one of the worst feelings would be to steal someone's Selvala, Heart of the Wilds or Realm Seekers and never being able to use their abilities.

I also agree with the posters above. You definitely need ways to protect him as your deck seems to be all in on having him on the battlefield.

Also, maybe War Cadence to help get your creatures through? Bedlam ir probably better as it doesn't require a mana investment, but War Cadence still lets you block on your turn if you want. Archetype of Aggression also helps get your creatures to deal damage to your opponents.

Yeah good idea with the color rocks and any color lands I wasn't really caring much for the lands I put in cause it's just mono red and I didn't need colors for casting but activating abilities does matter. I might put in War Cadence until I get Bedlam cause stopping my enemies from blocking seems really good imo.

I feel like giving all of your creatures haste is important in this deck. Maybe Urabrask the Hidden? Not only does he give haste, he also taps down your opponents creatures so it's easy for them to connect.

Quote from ulasht_the_great_seed »

I feel like giving all of your creatures haste is important in this deck. Maybe Urabrask the Hidden? Not only does he give haste, he also taps down your opponents creatures so it's easy for them to connect.

well urabrask is already in there and no not really so far through playing this deck you dont really do much first main phase since you wont be able to see what youll hit off of your opponents decks so i normally keep all my mana up for 2nd main phase so that i can play as much as possible from my opponents decks. this deck really only needs haste for game ending plays like dropping ulamog or moonveil so that you can finish off your opponents on that turn.

I think Coalition Relic is strictly better than Chromatic Lantern in this build. I know you're putting the Lantern in there in case you want to activate off-color abilities, but the frequency at which that happens will be low enough that the additional tempo provided by Coalition Relic is going to prove more useful than the "Your lands tap for any color mana" of the Lantern.

EDIT: Nevermind, now I see that you like to keep your mana up for second main phase. I still like the Relic better than the Lantern here, but I can see how you'd go either way.

So recently I have been using this deck for my commander nights and it has been performing quite well. My games will normally have me gaining speed early on getting around 3-5 creatures out by t5 while everyone else is still setting up their boards. I end up focusing on stealing cards from my opponents hoping to get answers to keep their boards clear. But against a mayael, zur, and 8.5 deck grenzo has been able to deal with them easily since they all run good amounts of removal, utility creatures, and bombs.

Just jumped into this deck. Built it with mono-red draft leftovers, and it performed absurdly well playing 1v1. I haven't had a chance to play multiplayer with it yet, but I was surprised by how well the deck played out. I'm curious if you've played any more games with it?

What do you think of Five-Alarm Fire in such a deck?

That seems pretty decent. It may prove to be too little to make a real difference in Commander, but I like the look of it.

Quote from Phone »

Just jumped into this deck. Built it with mono-red draft leftovers, and it performed absurdly well playing 1v1. I haven't had a chance to play multiplayer with it yet, but I was surprised by how well the deck played out. I'm curious if you've played any more games with it?

I have played many games with this deck, but I have around 5 decks that I also play and my other decks have been having a lot more changes recently, so I have been playing those a bit more. In multiplayer though It can be pretty fun, but if you fall behind early you get set back a lot.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

What do you think of Five-Alarm Fire in such a deck?

I don't really like it much in commander in general I mean even having a 5 damage removal spell just doesn't feel like it has much of an impact in the game. This deck prefers to either steal removal from opponents or just say hey opponents you deal with this problem.

Also haven't been keeping up with this thread much since there hasn't been much traffic here and i've been doing a lot of frontier and standard brewing so it's a lil hard to keep up with this deck, but I do feel like doing a revamped decklist one of these days especially since this deck has gotten a lot of interesting cards in the last few sets.

I'm with you 100% on the Bedlam plan. That's a card that I've always wanted to play, and this is the deck for it. Extra props if you get the 7th edition art.

I'm recently building a grenzo deck. I've played three games and each found Grenzo underwhelming. The deck does not seem to get going by turn 3-4 at the earliest. If I play turn 1 creature, turn 2 Grenzo I might get a spell for turn 3 from an opponent) but considering most edh decks start at 3 mana my chances of hitting a decent card are minimal. In addition, you need to cast the cards second main. Which seems really bad considering you want to play your cards typical before you attack. What turn does Grenzo begin to shine?

Quote from JamesBrine »

I'm recently building a grenzo deck. I've played three games and each found Grenzo underwhelming. The deck does not seem to get going by turn 3-4 at the earliest. If I play turn 1 creature, turn 2 Grenzo I might get a spell for turn 3 from an opponent) but considering most edh decks start at 3 mana my chances of hitting a decent card are minimal. In addition, you need to cast the cards second main. Which seems really bad considering you want to play your cards typical before you attack. What turn does Grenzo begin to shine?

You typically don't want to play your cards before you attack.... It would be helpful if you posted your deck list. I haven't had a problem with Grenzo, but maybe we're looking for different things with the deck. If you state what you expected then maybe the thread could point you in the right direction.

Quote from JamesBrine »

I'm recently building a grenzo deck. I've played three games and each found Grenzo underwhelming. The deck does not seem to get going by turn 3-4 at the earliest. If I play turn 1 creature, turn 2 Grenzo I might get a spell for turn 3 from an opponent) but considering most edh decks start at 3 mana my chances of hitting a decent card are minimal. In addition, you need to cast the cards second main. Which seems really bad considering you want to play your cards typical before you attack. What turn does Grenzo begin to shine?

The deck really wants to always play cards, but wants to use your opponents cards to build board advantage so that you don't have to run out of cards in hand. For me most times just having grenzo is enough to be able to practically always get in on your opponent before turn 5 most times (about the time each opponent starts getting creatures out). I think one problem this deck might have is for the metas that you play in. If you're in a meta that revolves around late game plays, doesn't use many mana rocks, and doesn't use many tutors, then I think grenzo needs a different build for those types of metas. On the other hand if you are playing in a meta with people who use mana crypt, mana vault, Demonic tutor, etc, then grenzo should shine. Another thing to keep in mind is what opponents to hit (my meta involves: Mono White Voltron, Leovold steals your stuff, Mayael's big stuff, Zur pillowfort, 4 color non blue good stuff, etc). The decks in my meta all run a good number of mana rocks, tutors, and just commander staples. I know my friends decks pretty well, so I know which decks run good removal, small creatures, big creatures, control effects, board wipes, etc, and with this information I can figure out who is the best opponent to attack and steal from. There still is a lot of luck involved in getting useful cards from your opponents, you will sometimes whiff and you will sometimes get consecutive great hits. Another problem is if your opponents are really heavy in removal and board control then this deck might not be great for that meta, basically what I'm trying to say is that depending on your meta you will need to have a major variation for this deck.

PS: Update for Aether Revolt is done