Welcome to Jund Hermit Druid. Rather than re-Invent the wheel on this type of deck i want to credit Emether's Angry Hermit Thread for the layout of this one. Hopefully no one minds. The decks are essentially the same, so a lot of same things are bring presented just in a Jund shell.
It wins in three steps, usually in the same turn :
1] Cast Hermit Druid.
2] Activate Hermit Druid.
3] Win the game.
This is a combo deck, but the special thing with it lies in the fact it is a combo of only one card : Hermit Druid. Cast it, activate it, all the rest is ready to make you win the game.
II- Activating Hermit Druid
1] As you probably know, this will mill your entire deck. All your deck is in your graveyard.
3] Sacrifice 3 Creatures to flashback Dread Return, targeting Necrotic Ooze.
Note: this is the only moment where your opponent has a window to react. He should counter Dread Return if he can, because if he doesn't, he has lost.
4] Activate the three abilities of Necrotic Ooze one in response to the other and put a billion damage in the stack, repeat as many times as you want. This might be a bit complicated, see below for explanations.
III- Using Necrotic Ooze
Necrotic Ooze has all activated abilities of creatures cards in all graveyards. In your graveyard, three creatures matter :
- Devoted Druid
- Morselhoarder
- Spikeshot Elder
1] Use Devoted Druid's second ability. As a cost to activate it, you put a -1/-1 counter on Necrotic Ooze. The ability (untapping Necrotic Ooze) is on the stack.
NOTE: Go to step 2 right away. Don't pass the priority. You don't need to untap Necrotic Ooze, you just need to put a -1/-1 counter on it, which is done as part of the cost to use the ability. The -1/-1 counter is already on it.
2] Use Morselhoarder's ability. You remove the -1/-1 counter and get a mana of any color, preferably red.
Note: This ability is a mana ability. This means it resolves right away without passing priority. So you have a mana in your pool, and still have priority. Your opponent still hasn't had a window to make any move.
3] Repeat steps 1 and 2 as many times as you like. You have unlimited mana of any color.
4] Use Spikeshot Elder's ability targeting your opponent(s). A billion times. Each activation in response to the other.
5] Pass priority. Smile and say : "598,364,764 damage targeting you. Any response ?"
I did this because the only time you want Summoner's Pact is when you already have Anger in the yard, and typically if anger is in the yard it's because you have something to put it there, and the only things that put it there are usually Survival of the Fittest fringe case is casting Rotting Rats.
EDIT: 300 posts! wish i could've made it more useful
EDIT 2: I'm actually not making the above change. I'm cutting Pact and Genesis for Nature's Lore and Three Visits, and i need to fit in Farseek too so i can find Mountains.
EDIT3: I just realized that the combos BOTH require attacking. Which sucks. Cutting Ranger's Guile, and Vines of Vastwood for Morselhoarder and Spike Shot Elder, and that now gives me 2 distinct combos that don't entail the same pieces.
I played a deck similar to this one a few years ago, focusing on Morselhoarder/Devoted Druid/Spikeshot Elder as the primary win, but instead of Kiki-Jiki/Druid being the alternate I included Mogg Fanatic so that I wouldn't need to attack regardless of which Ooze combo I went with.
My build was geared more towards 1v1 use rather than multiplayer, so instead of Birthing Pod (Zealous Conscripts hadn't yet been printed and I didn't feel Melira was strong enough) I used a Bazaar of Baghdad/Life from the Loam engine with Dark Depths and Vampire Hexmage.
I can provide you with my old list if you'd like as a point of comparison, I had a lot of luck with the archetype and only took it apart due to having to liquidate my collection to move cross-country.
Edit: I would definitely recommend trying to find room for Postmortem Lunge, I found it extremely useful in my build, although I also ran a few more utility creatures than you did that could be brought back for some value, such as Fulminator Mage.
I played a deck similar to this one a few years ago, focusing on Morselhoarder/Devoted Druid/Spikeshot Elder as the primary win, but instead of Kiki-Jiki/Druid being the alternate I included Mogg Fanatic so that I wouldn't need to attack regardless of which Ooze combo I went with.
My build was geared more towards 1v1 use rather than multiplayer, so instead of Birthing Pod (Zealous Conscripts hadn't yet been printed and I didn't feel Melira was strong enough) I used a Bazaar of Baghdad/Life from the Loam engine with Dark Depths and Vampire Hexmage.
I can provide you with my old list if you'd like as a point of comparison, I had a lot of luck with the archetype and only took it apart due to having to liquidate my collection to move cross-country.
Edit: I would definitely recommend trying to find room for Postmortem Lunge, I found it extremely useful in my build, although I also ran a few more utility creatures than you did that could be brought back for some value, such as Fulminator Mage.
Your list and mine had pretty much had the same goals (except obviously now out of date). Postmortem Lunge made it into the deck, and has been awesome. I would be more reluctant to play Depths combo if primetime were still around, and Bazaar Loam is a good interaction, but I'm weary of A) adding another land, and B) adding a land that doesn't produce mana
I have since added Viridian Zealot. Fulminator is a little narrow imo for multiplayer, and I also tried out pointed discard like Thoughtseize, Duress, etc. and didn't really like it much either. I won on turn 4 in a 5player pod at my lgs yesterday, and got some points toward store credit.
Yeah, in multiplayer the directed discard and Fulminator Mage are both less than ideal, I only ran them because my list was geared towards 1v1. Dark Depths I ran because there wasn't a good alternate win condition available when I played the deck, Pod is undoubtedly superior at this point and would be what I'd run now.
Bazaar/Loam was something I liked making use of when I played the deck, but honestly is probably more of a choice of the times. Since Pod wasn't yet a viable win condition if my opponent managed to hold off the initial Druid attempts I wanted something that would let me switch over to a long game with the deck to set up Dark Depths. Now that you can easily combo off of Pod a higher tutor density to get it like you run now is probably just superior to Bazaar, as much as it pains me to say. It also makes other cards I ran to great effect, such as Grim Discovery (which was often a double Regrowth for 1B for me) less worthwhile.
Edit: Two cards that may be worth considering that I never got around to testing myself are Torch Fiend to give you another cheap way to pick off annoying artifacts and Unearth, which brings back Druid and many of the other guys in your deck for B, which could be relevant when trying to Dread Return Ooze or Terastodon.
Yeah, in multiplayer the directed discard and Fulminator Mage are both less than ideal, I only ran them because my list was geared towards 1v1. Dark Depths I ran because there wasn't a good alternate win condition available when I played the deck, Pod is undoubtedly superior at this point and would be what I'd run now.
Bazaar/Loam was something I liked making use of when I played the deck, but honestly is probably more of a choice of the times. Since Pod wasn't yet a viable win condition if my opponent managed to hold off the initial Druid attempts I wanted something that would let me switch over to a long game with the deck to set up Dark Depths. Now that you can easily combo off of Pod a higher tutor density to get it like you run now is probably just superior to Bazaar, as much as it pains me to say. It also makes other cards I ran to great effect, such as Grim Discovery (which was often a double Regrowth for 1B for me) less worthwhile.
Edit: Two cards that may be worth considering that I never got around to testing myself are Torch Fiend to give you another cheap way to pick off annoying artifacts and Unearth, which brings back Druid and many of the other guys in your deck for B, which could be relevant when trying to Dread Return Ooze or Terastodon.
I actually have Unearth in the list (or atleast i'm fairly certain i do, i should if i don't). Torch fiend is easier on the mana, but Viridian Zealot hits either artifact or enchantment. I don't want to clutter the deck with too many reactive cards or "answers" especially that are narrow
EDIT: Working on sorting the list and putting some more detail.
You do have it there, I somehow missed it when I looked through it last time. As far as Torch Fiend goes, I can definitely understand the desire to avoid cluttering up the list, I threw it out there as an option in case you find yourself short on artifact removal. Your list has more removal in general than mine did, so it's probably less of an issue for you.
Have you considered Sylvan Primordial over Terastodon? It does have the drawback of not being able to pop multiple permanents a single opponent controls, but gives you a big mana boost in exchange. MCR seems to swear by it in his Mimeoplasm deck, so I'm curious if you've tested it or not.
You do have it there, I somehow missed it when I looked through it last time. As far as Torch Fiend goes, I can definitely understand the desire to avoid cluttering up the list, I threw it out there as an option in case you find yourself short on artifact removal. Your list has more removal in general than mine did, so it's probably less of an issue for you.
Have you considered Sylvan Primordial over Terastodon? It does have the drawback of not being able to pop multiple permanents a single opponent controls, but gives you a big mana boost in exchange. MCR seems to swear by it in his Mimeoplasm deck, so I'm curious if you've tested it or not.
I'm actually going to try Wickerbough Elder in your torch fiend slot, because he gives me an answer post mill to any artifact or enchantment that might be in the way before comboing off.
I also Switched Terastadon to Primordial, because i can actually pod into cmc 7 where 9 i can't. I prefered terastadon initially, because i wasn't sure how often i would find myself in a 1v1 situation.
EDIT: I ended up swapping Viridian Zealot for Wickerbough Elder
I've only gotten to test 1 game so far, and it was pretty glorious. Here's how it goes(to preface this was on cockatrice).
I join a 4 man edh game titled {Cut Throat EDH} opponents are Tajic, Azusa, and Krenko... this was my first sign things were going to end badly. Not that any of these arent bad generals it's just they're not the first generals that come to mind when i "cut-throat EDH", but onward with my story.
i get a fairly slow hand, but i have Demonic Tutor and Grim tutor in hand with Murderous Redcap.
turn 1 land
turn 2 land, demonic Tutor for Bpod
turn 3 land, Play pod
turn 4 land, play mana crypt, and proceed to pod into kiki conscripts to close the game.
my opponents then start to get angry with me for having an infinite combo, and i get kicked. good times. shame on me for joining a cut throat room, and trying to win.
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In other news! Something i've been thinking about recently is cutting Dregscape Zombie. He's a nice 3rd unearth guy for B, but i usually am finding myself not needing it, and he's fairly weak on his own.
Definitely cuttable. I didn't run him for exactly the reasons you said, instead opting for Reassembling Skeleton since at least he chump blocks like a champ. Both fill the same Pod spot as well.
Has there been any area in your testing that sticks out as a potential weak point so far? That slot really could go to anything.
Seems like a lot of your games have been pretty linear. Something along the lines of: mana, tutor, win. Have there been any cases of disruption? Difficulty in finding pieces? It'd be easier to help you update your deck if you could present more problems.
Definitely cuttable. I didn't run him for exactly the reasons you said, instead opting for Reassembling Skeleton since at least he chump blocks like a champ. Both fill the same Pod spot as well.
Has there been any area in your testing that sticks out as a potential weak point so far? That slot really could go to anything.
There haven't really been any obvious weak points, but i'm not sure what i'd want other than more draw. 2 cards i've been thinking about are Skullclamp, and Aether Vial. Skullclamp hits a fair amount of my creatures(especially Bloodghast), and Vial is nice for getting through counters, and being able to get creatures on board at instant speed.
Seems like a lot of your games have been pretty linear. Something along the lines of: mana, tutor, win. Have there been any cases of disruption? Difficulty in finding pieces? It'd be easier to help you update your deck if you could present more problems.
I've had to play around disruption a few times, but i was still in testing phases, and hadn't even made the deck what it is today nor this thread, so i haven't mentioned them. I've outlined most of the problematic situations, and how to deal with them in my " when things don't go as planned" section.
There's been a few games where i had to play around a tormod's Crypt, and others where i've ran into blood moon, and Stranglehold. all of which are certainly problematic, but i've been able to weasel my way out of it more often than not.
So yesterday like every other saturday is my local shop's edh night. In my 1v1 testing everything went well (didn't lose a game), and i had came out on top with the following roadblocks:
-Hermit Druid exiled
Here i ended up Natural Order'ing Adun Oakenshield into Riftsweeper, and then finding druid again which ultimately ended in a win.
-Dread Return Countered
just as outlined in the thread. I FB Krosan Reclamation and got 2 reanimators which was nice because I had Divining top out, and drew a card then played the reanimator.
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the actual 4 man pod testing went like this. My opponents were:
The Mimeoplasm:Hermit Druid
Rafiq of the Many:Slyfox's build
and Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter (I believe):Not sure of overhead strategy, but this guy wasn't really on my radar, because I was more worried about rafiq and Mimeoplasm since they're blue.
turns were Vish, Rafiq, me, and then Mimio
The game started pretty slow for everyone but me. I had a turn 2 Hermit Druid looking for the win on turn 3.
This was the turning point:
--Mimio Demonic Tutors on his turn 2. Rafiq responds with Aven Mindcensor (Sucks for him).
--Rafiq wastelands my Twilight mire (I have Taiga and Twilight mire at this time) at first i wasn't worried, since i have a land in hand(oh wait it's a fetch!)
--now it's my turn, and i have to play the land and crack it to attempt to win now, because vish kal is going to kill it next turn if i don't(of course i whiff), and now i'm on 1 land.
--after this Vish Kal starts to keep Rafiq under control with Prison Term, getting rid of Mindcensor and utilizing other removal. while myself and mimio try to find stuff to setup.
--Mimio ended up conceding to his own miscalculation. I got 3rd because i couldn't draw anything, and i think Vish Kal ended winning from drawing tons of cards off of Bloodghast and Skullclamp.
Conclusion:
Mindcensor wasn't a problem more than the wasteland, since i had the removal in hand, but not the lands. I could see mindcensor being a problem, but that's why i'm running Terminate as an extra removal for Hatebears like Mindcensor and Gaddock Teeg.
Side note: I was hoping i could get the combo off so i could use Wickerbough Elder to kill Vish Kal's Leyline of Sanctity and still be able to deal lethal to him that would've given me some gratification for adding the elder.
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as for the rest of the night the deck ran well and i was able to combo quicker than everyone was able to answer i lost some and won some. I had Hermit druid countered and exile other times, and there was a game where i had to go for Murderous Redcap Pod, and win that way. Overall a good night of testing.
I never got around to cutting Dregscape, but there were a few times where he was clutch to being able to combo especially in situations where i don't have a land to play for bloodghast or 2 mana for Rotting Rats..
I do however feel overall the cards i want to look into replacing are Dregscape Zombie , and Genesis. Genesis is because I have his Functional twin at the helm of the deck, and i can use him at instant speed.
EDIT: Chord of Calling is also on my watchlist. It just seems too slow everytime i draw it.
So i've decided that Dregscape Zombie is a necessary evil in the deck due to my more focus on hermit druid, and having to lose more of the dorks i previously had when i was more of a melira pod deck.
What was the purpose in making this 3 colors just to be unique? It seems strictly worse than the 5 color version. Like it has the same card slots but the quality is lower. The cmc 1 and 0 counter are good . Little rings like having 2 virtual slyvan library's from e tutor and pull from eternity being just better than rift sweeper memories journey being better than reclamation the list goes on. I have no doubt in general it's the same kill turn / feels the same . I ask becuase I ran a 4 color version simply due to not owning red dual
Lands IRL and though it was still the best ddck at the table or wasn't as good as playing 5CC on modo.
What was the purpose in making this 3 colors just to be unique? It seems strictly worse than the 5 color version. Like it has the same card slots but the quality is lower. The cmc 1 and 0 counter are good . Little rings like having 2 virtual slyvan library's from e tutor and pull from eternity being just better than rift sweeper memories journey being better than reclamation the list goes on. I have no doubt in general it's the same kill turn / feels the same . I ask becuase I ran a 4 color version simply due to not owning red dual
Lands IRL and though it was still the best ddck at the table or wasn't as good as playing 5CC on modo.
Hi Moxnix,
I can concede to the fact that it's "worse" than the 5c version. Yes, but not only did I want this to be unique I wanted to show that BUG is not the only 3 color variant that is viable. I would argue that the jund version is "better" in the respects of having access to an ooze combo that doesn't require the passing of priority, uses less mana when going off(not having to tap G to give haste to Ooze with Thornling), while still maintaining the overall speed and resiliency of the 5c version.
I think you were trying to say the deck's tutors aren't as efficient as 5c's(which i can agree with), but getting a sylvan library online isn't what even the 5c version is trying to do so i don't understand the analogy. The deck wants to tutor for hermit druid directly. I have nearly the same amount of tutors as the 5c version(they all search for a creature or any card), albeit a few on the high side of cmc (Chord of calling and Jarad's Orders) and I have crafted the deck so that the "spell" slots ported from teh 5c version make sense and are creatures, because that's what green does. tutors for creatures. Honestly the only thing lacking is protection in the form of counter spells, but i can't help that, and i'm always looking for ways outside of Xantid Swarm(which is a card i'm considering anyway).
Riftsweeper is a bad Pull from Eternity, and Krosan Reclamation is a bad Memory's Journey, but it's the best these colors have to offer which make sense with the tutors, and they're actually not "horrible" in practice. I can tutor for a creature A LOT easier than i can a spell.
Beyond all that these are the cards i have IRL, and can play right now. I actually initially had Kresh as my General, as a challenge from a buddy of mine since i'm always playing blue, and it went from a melira pod deck to this over the course of a few months of fine tuning. I don't have all the ABU lands(outside of these colors) nor do i have Imperial Seal or Grim Tutor. I use Scroll Rack and Cruel Tutor in their place, but I very seldom feel the tempo loss, but i do plan on getting them one day. I post the optimal list, because I don't want the deck to look like a joke, because this is how i would play it if i could.
I've updated the OP's decklist because i just realized i was missing the most important card in the deck in the list that was posted, but had it in my paper list (Dread Return) Doh! So that's fixed.
On top of that i've decided to cut Terminate and Terastadon(sad i know) for Xantid Swarm and Sylvan Safekeeper. Very rarely was i Terminating things, nor felt the need to when i could terminate. Terastadon while a good card Bribery is in my meta, and i was actually NO'ing for Hermit druid more than him(or atleast it was the better play). The nice thing about Xantid Swarm and Sylvan safekeeper is that they're on curve protection, and can serve as utility with other cards that need bodies like NO, Dread Return, Diabolic Intent and Birthing Pod(oh yea Pod into Hermit Druid), not to mention Skullclamp. This change of course drops my curve down dramatically!
after some more testing and consultation with MCR I think i'm at a good stopping point personally for the deck. I cut the kiki/conscripts Plan B and am capitalizing on speed. The deck is all-in now, and has a touch of 1v1 in mind. Unfortunately these colors don't have counters so they're the best i've got. Revelation has been a gem with all the fancy gatherer searching I did with this recent update, and compliments the targetted discard well while still being good on it's own. Overall i'm happy with how the deck has turned out, and how it's performing. updated List in OP!
This doesn't necessarily mean this is the end all be all, but i don't forsee any drastic changes like the deck has underwent the last few weeks.
So i've overcome my worries about information, and cut Revelation (Telepathy has never been good anyway, right? Mind Twist filled that spot, and I put a stricter filter on my tutors 3cmc or less. Keeping Bob and Sylvan Library, though. Added some more redundancy in adding Nostalgic Dreams, Recoup, Yawgmoth's Will and Corpse Dance. I'm considering cutting Deathrite Shaman for Carpet of Flowers since my meta is fairly blue based especially since they know there's 2 hermit druid players more people are playing blue.
1 Adun Oakenshield
//Lands
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Graven Cairns
1 Twilight Mire
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Hermit Druid
1 Bloodghast
1 Rotting Rats
1 Dregscape Zombie
1 Dread Return
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Devoted Druid
1 Morselhoarder
1 Spikeshot Elder
//Protection
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Mind Twist
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Ranger's Guile
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Xantid Swarm
//Acceleration
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Simian Spirit Guide
//Removal
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Beast Within
1 Chaos Warp
1 Nature's Claim
1 Krosan Reclamation
1 Riftsweeper
1 Anger
//Draw-Tutor
1 Dark Confidant
1 Sylvan Library
1 Buried Alive
1 Cruel Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Entomb
1 Gamble
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Shred Memory
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Tainted Pact
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Imperial Recruiter
//Recursion
1 Apprentice Necromancer
1 Corpse Dance
1 Life // Death
1 Postmortem Lunge
1 Reanimate
1 Shallow Grave
1 Unearth
1 Recoup
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1] Cast Hermit Druid.
2] Activate Hermit Druid.
3] Win the game.
This is a combo deck, but the special thing with it lies in the fact it is a combo of only one card : Hermit Druid. Cast it, activate it, all the rest is ready to make you win the game.
II- Activating Hermit Druid
2] (optional) If you don't have any other creature on the battlefield, play a land to recur Bloodghast and/or unearth Dregscape Zombie/Rotting Rats.
3] Sacrifice 3 Creatures to flashback Dread Return, targeting Necrotic Ooze.
Note: this is the only moment where your opponent has a window to react. He should counter Dread Return if he can, because if he doesn't, he has lost.
4] Activate the three abilities of Necrotic Ooze one in response to the other and put a billion damage in the stack, repeat as many times as you want. This might be a bit complicated, see below for explanations.
III- Using Necrotic Ooze
- Devoted Druid
- Morselhoarder
- Spikeshot Elder
1] Use Devoted Druid's second ability. As a cost to activate it, you put a -1/-1 counter on Necrotic Ooze. The ability (untapping Necrotic Ooze) is on the stack.
NOTE: Go to step 2 right away. Don't pass the priority. You don't need to untap Necrotic Ooze, you just need to put a -1/-1 counter on it, which is done as part of the cost to use the ability. The -1/-1 counter is already on it.
2] Use Morselhoarder's ability. You remove the -1/-1 counter and get a mana of any color, preferably red.
Note: This ability is a mana ability. This means it resolves right away without passing priority. So you have a mana in your pool, and still have priority. Your opponent still hasn't had a window to make any move.
3] Repeat steps 1 and 2 as many times as you like. You have unlimited mana of any color.
4] Use Spikeshot Elder's ability targeting your opponent(s). A billion times. Each activation in response to the other.
5] Pass priority. Smile and say : "598,364,764 damage targeting you. Any response ?"
Summoner's Pact->Postmortem Lunge
I did this because the only time you want Summoner's Pact is when you already have Anger in the yard, and typically if anger is in the yard it's because you have something to put it there, and the only things that put it there are usually Survival of the Fittest fringe case is casting Rotting Rats.
EDIT: 300 posts! wish i could've made it more useful
EDIT 2: I'm actually not making the above change. I'm cutting Pact and Genesis for Nature's Lore and Three Visits, and i need to fit in Farseek too so i can find Mountains.
EDIT3: I just realized that the combos BOTH require attacking. Which sucks. Cutting Ranger's Guile, and Vines of Vastwood for Morselhoarder and Spike Shot Elder, and that now gives me 2 distinct combos that don't entail the same pieces.
My build was geared more towards 1v1 use rather than multiplayer, so instead of Birthing Pod (Zealous Conscripts hadn't yet been printed and I didn't feel Melira was strong enough) I used a Bazaar of Baghdad/Life from the Loam engine with Dark Depths and Vampire Hexmage.
I can provide you with my old list if you'd like as a point of comparison, I had a lot of luck with the archetype and only took it apart due to having to liquidate my collection to move cross-country.
Edit: I would definitely recommend trying to find room for Postmortem Lunge, I found it extremely useful in my build, although I also ran a few more utility creatures than you did that could be brought back for some value, such as Fulminator Mage.
Your list and mine had pretty much had the same goals (except obviously now out of date). Postmortem Lunge made it into the deck, and has been awesome. I would be more reluctant to play Depths combo if primetime were still around, and Bazaar Loam is a good interaction, but I'm weary of A) adding another land, and B) adding a land that doesn't produce mana
I have since added Viridian Zealot. Fulminator is a little narrow imo for multiplayer, and I also tried out pointed discard like Thoughtseize, Duress, etc. and didn't really like it much either. I won on turn 4 in a 5player pod at my lgs yesterday, and got some points toward store credit.
Updated List in OP.
Bazaar/Loam was something I liked making use of when I played the deck, but honestly is probably more of a choice of the times. Since Pod wasn't yet a viable win condition if my opponent managed to hold off the initial Druid attempts I wanted something that would let me switch over to a long game with the deck to set up Dark Depths. Now that you can easily combo off of Pod a higher tutor density to get it like you run now is probably just superior to Bazaar, as much as it pains me to say. It also makes other cards I ran to great effect, such as Grim Discovery (which was often a double Regrowth for 1B for me) less worthwhile.
Edit: Two cards that may be worth considering that I never got around to testing myself are Torch Fiend to give you another cheap way to pick off annoying artifacts and Unearth, which brings back Druid and many of the other guys in your deck for B, which could be relevant when trying to Dread Return Ooze or Terastodon.
I actually have Unearth in the list (or atleast i'm fairly certain i do, i should if i don't). Torch fiend is easier on the mana, but Viridian Zealot hits either artifact or enchantment. I don't want to clutter the deck with too many reactive cards or "answers" especially that are narrow
EDIT: Working on sorting the list and putting some more detail.
Have you considered Sylvan Primordial over Terastodon? It does have the drawback of not being able to pop multiple permanents a single opponent controls, but gives you a big mana boost in exchange. MCR seems to swear by it in his Mimeoplasm deck, so I'm curious if you've tested it or not.
I'm actually going to try Wickerbough Elder in your torch fiend slot, because he gives me an answer post mill to any artifact or enchantment that might be in the way before comboing off.
I also Switched Terastadon to Primordial, because i can actually pod into cmc 7 where 9 i can't. I prefered terastadon initially, because i wasn't sure how often i would find myself in a 1v1 situation.
EDIT: I ended up swapping Viridian Zealot for Wickerbough Elder
I join a 4 man edh game titled {Cut Throat EDH} opponents are Tajic, Azusa, and Krenko... this was my first sign things were going to end badly. Not that any of these arent bad generals it's just they're not the first generals that come to mind when i "cut-throat EDH", but onward with my story.
i get a fairly slow hand, but i have Demonic Tutor and Grim tutor in hand with Murderous Redcap.
turn 1 land
turn 2 land, demonic Tutor for Bpod
turn 3 land, Play pod
turn 4 land, play mana crypt, and proceed to pod into kiki conscripts to close the game.
my opponents then start to get angry with me for having an infinite combo, and i get kicked. good times. shame on me for joining a cut throat room, and trying to win.
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In other news! Something i've been thinking about recently is cutting Dregscape Zombie. He's a nice 3rd unearth guy for B, but i usually am finding myself not needing it, and he's fairly weak on his own.
what do you guys think?
Has there been any area in your testing that sticks out as a potential weak point so far? That slot really could go to anything.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
There haven't really been any obvious weak points, but i'm not sure what i'd want other than more draw. 2 cards i've been thinking about are Skullclamp, and Aether Vial. Skullclamp hits a fair amount of my creatures(especially Bloodghast), and Vial is nice for getting through counters, and being able to get creatures on board at instant speed.
I've had to play around disruption a few times, but i was still in testing phases, and hadn't even made the deck what it is today nor this thread, so i haven't mentioned them. I've outlined most of the problematic situations, and how to deal with them in my " when things don't go as planned" section.
There's been a few games where i had to play around a tormod's Crypt, and others where i've ran into blood moon, and Stranglehold. all of which are certainly problematic, but i've been able to weasel my way out of it more often than not.
-Hermit Druid exiled
Here i ended up Natural Order'ing Adun Oakenshield into Riftsweeper, and then finding druid again which ultimately ended in a win.
-Dread Return Countered
just as outlined in the thread. I FB Krosan Reclamation and got 2 reanimators which was nice because I had Divining top out, and drew a card then played the reanimator.
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the actual 4 man pod testing went like this. My opponents were:
The Mimeoplasm:Hermit Druid
Rafiq of the Many:Slyfox's build
and Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter (I believe):Not sure of overhead strategy, but this guy wasn't really on my radar, because I was more worried about rafiq and Mimeoplasm since they're blue.
turns were Vish, Rafiq, me, and then Mimio
The game started pretty slow for everyone but me. I had a turn 2 Hermit Druid looking for the win on turn 3.
This was the turning point:
--Mimio Demonic Tutors on his turn 2. Rafiq responds with Aven Mindcensor (Sucks for him).
--Rafiq wastelands my Twilight mire (I have Taiga and Twilight mire at this time) at first i wasn't worried, since i have a land in hand(oh wait it's a fetch!)
--now it's my turn, and i have to play the land and crack it to attempt to win now, because vish kal is going to kill it next turn if i don't(of course i whiff), and now i'm on 1 land.
--after this Vish Kal starts to keep Rafiq under control with Prison Term, getting rid of Mindcensor and utilizing other removal. while myself and mimio try to find stuff to setup.
--Mimio ended up conceding to his own miscalculation. I got 3rd because i couldn't draw anything, and i think Vish Kal ended winning from drawing tons of cards off of Bloodghast and Skullclamp.
Conclusion:
Mindcensor wasn't a problem more than the wasteland, since i had the removal in hand, but not the lands. I could see mindcensor being a problem, but that's why i'm running Terminate as an extra removal for Hatebears like Mindcensor and Gaddock Teeg.
Side note: I was hoping i could get the combo off so i could use Wickerbough Elder to kill Vish Kal's Leyline of Sanctity and still be able to deal lethal to him that would've given me some gratification for adding the elder.
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as for the rest of the night the deck ran well and i was able to combo quicker than everyone was able to answer i lost some and won some. I had Hermit druid countered and exile other times, and there was a game where i had to go for Murderous Redcap Pod, and win that way. Overall a good night of testing.
I never got around to cutting Dregscape, but there were a few times where he was clutch to being able to combo especially in situations where i don't have a land to play for bloodghast or 2 mana for Rotting Rats..
I do however feel overall the cards i want to look into replacing are Dregscape Zombie , and Genesis. Genesis is because I have his Functional twin at the helm of the deck, and i can use him at instant speed.
EDIT: Chord of Calling is also on my watchlist. It just seems too slow everytime i draw it.
I have cut Genesis and Rummaging Goblin for Skullclamp, and Mindslicer.
Lands IRL and though it was still the best ddck at the table or wasn't as good as playing 5CC on modo.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Hi Moxnix,
I can concede to the fact that it's "worse" than the 5c version. Yes, but not only did I want this to be unique I wanted to show that BUG is not the only 3 color variant that is viable. I would argue that the jund version is "better" in the respects of having access to an ooze combo that doesn't require the passing of priority, uses less mana when going off(not having to tap G to give haste to Ooze with Thornling), while still maintaining the overall speed and resiliency of the 5c version.
I think you were trying to say the deck's tutors aren't as efficient as 5c's(which i can agree with), but getting a sylvan library online isn't what even the 5c version is trying to do so i don't understand the analogy. The deck wants to tutor for hermit druid directly. I have nearly the same amount of tutors as the 5c version(they all search for a creature or any card), albeit a few on the high side of cmc (Chord of calling and Jarad's Orders) and I have crafted the deck so that the "spell" slots ported from teh 5c version make sense and are creatures, because that's what green does. tutors for creatures. Honestly the only thing lacking is protection in the form of counter spells, but i can't help that, and i'm always looking for ways outside of Xantid Swarm(which is a card i'm considering anyway).
Riftsweeper is a bad Pull from Eternity, and Krosan Reclamation is a bad Memory's Journey, but it's the best these colors have to offer which make sense with the tutors, and they're actually not "horrible" in practice. I can tutor for a creature A LOT easier than i can a spell.
Beyond all that these are the cards i have IRL, and can play right now. I actually initially had Kresh as my General, as a challenge from a buddy of mine since i'm always playing blue, and it went from a melira pod deck to this over the course of a few months of fine tuning. I don't have all the ABU lands(outside of these colors) nor do i have Imperial Seal or Grim Tutor. I use Scroll Rack and Cruel Tutor in their place, but I very seldom feel the tempo loss, but i do plan on getting them one day. I post the optimal list, because I don't want the deck to look like a joke, because this is how i would play it if i could.
On top of that i've decided to cut Terminate and Terastadon(sad i know) for Xantid Swarm and Sylvan Safekeeper. Very rarely was i Terminating things, nor felt the need to when i could terminate. Terastadon while a good card Bribery is in my meta, and i was actually NO'ing for Hermit druid more than him(or atleast it was the better play). The nice thing about Xantid Swarm and Sylvan safekeeper is that they're on curve protection, and can serve as utility with other cards that need bodies like NO, Dread Return, Diabolic Intent and Birthing Pod(oh yea Pod into Hermit Druid), not to mention Skullclamp. This change of course drops my curve down dramatically!
Enjoy!
This doesn't necessarily mean this is the end all be all, but i don't forsee any drastic changes like the deck has underwent the last few weeks.
Updating OP