I wanted to try a deck with minimal amount of permanents and a lot of removal, and I found a primer for Phelddagrif, which I had wanted to try for a long time, so it seemed like a good choice. I'm sure this deck is great for more competitive environments but in casual games it actually seems to draw hate. I guess if MtG was more like VtES where the players have a built-in incentive to attack each other, it would be a different story.
Its the nature of the deck, wrecking everyone's board state multiple times just makes you the logical first target. I've got a black deck that is basically just Damnation and Drain Life and the same thing happens. Makes for interesting strategy decisions some times, but doing something challenging and different is half the fun.
Its the nature of the deck, wrecking everyone's board state multiple times just makes you the logical first target. I've got a black deck that is basically just Damnation and Drain Life and the same thing happens. Makes for interesting strategy decisions some times, but doing something challenging and different is half the fun.
I guess so. My original idea, though, was to make a deck that would only use the removal when needed. But it seems that when they know you have the potential, they'll want to hit you preemptively.
I've found (in my admittedly short commander experience) with running a lot of disruption that it really can't be saved for when you need it. Getting a board wipe out early before everyone's plans come together keeps those them trying to rebuild instead of coming at you.
Out of curiosity, You said you didn't want a lot of permanents so I get not having mana rocks, but why no land ramp? You've got a commander that gives you access to green the rampiest color out there.
Phelddagrif is tricky to make a good primer for because, at the end of the day, it's very depending on how your opponents respond to it. I've had tables that ignored me the whole time and I won easily. I've had tables that gunned for me way harder than seemed reasonable. And everything in between. But there's no telling what's going to set people off. Lower power level tables might see an ABU dual and go for the throat, while others might expect that lack of budget.
And of course, it's also dependent on you as a player, and whether people perceive you as a threat and in what way. I've tried as hard as I can to keep the threat level as low as possible while being as functional as possible, but someone else's experience might be different.
Anyway, one difficulty with building a deck like Phelddagrif is that there's sort of a narrow ledge you have to walk between being strong enough to control the game but weak enough to avoid looking too threatening. And if you push it too far and start drawing hate, it's easy to keep pushing the deck into heavier and heavier control to fix the problem - "if I'd just had another board wipe, I would have survived" mentality.
And that's what it LOOKS like has happened to your list, from my experience. You've got WAY too many wipes. If you're wiping frequently, you can expect your opponents to exercise some pattern recognition and start targeting you to either force the wipe ASAP, or kill you before you draw it. I count 19 wipes, depending on definition. I think running more than 9 is a mistake that will get you targeted.
The second problem is that you've got a LOT of what I call neutralization removal - usually enchantment-type removal designed to remove someone's commander permanently or at least semi-permanently. I would run 1, or 2 on the outside. Neutralization is a last resort solution for commanders that are too dangerous to let live, or for the 1v1 game. If you're firing them off all the time, you can bet that's going to motivate people to kill you so they can get their commanders back. The situation you want to be employing them in is when everyone agrees that X commander is way too scary and wants to defend YOU to keep that commander neutralized (or when it's 1v1). With this many of them, you're bound to end up firing them off on less threatening targets and just pissing people off. Cut it down to 1-2.
I think lands like maze of ith and island of wak-wak (are you seriously running this?) are more symptoms of pushing your threat level too far. You shouldn't need them. You shouldn't be attacked in the first place - people shouldn't want to hurt you that much, and you've got block + bounce to dissuade them - and you should have more targeted instant-speed removal to deal with someone who's really going after you. On-board answers like ith makes people think "uh oh he's building a wall of protection I might not be able to assail if I don't start targeting him ASAP" You want to look vulnerable so that people don't worry about their ability to deal with you later.
Finally, and this is more a matter of personal preference, I don't think we get enough value off single-shot draw spells like ponder, or borrowing 10,000 arrows. I'd pick out your favourite repeatable CA engines and pack in some tutors for them. Playing a bunch of small scry/draw spells makes it look like you're sculpting yourself into something nasty. I'm less confident about this, because I think you COULD make a good Phelddagrif list with single-shot draw, but I don't think it's as reliable as hitting something repeatable and just relying on that. Don't forget [[bonder's enclave]]!
As far as replacements - more targeted instant-speed removal, more counterspells, more tutors for your favourite repeatable draw engines, and probably more land - ZNR is going to make a big splash here with the DFC lands, so don't forget about those.
4 Phelddagrif
Creatures (1)
2 Snapcaster Mage
Instants (26)
1 Brainstorm
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Impulse
2 Reality Shift
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Counterspell
2 Mana Drain
3 Disallow
3 Pulse of the Grid
3 Beast Within
3 Oblation
3 Generous Gift
3 Crib Swap
3 Pulse of the Fields
3 Voidslime
3 Bant Charm
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Cryptic Command
4 Crush Contraband
4 Return to Dust
5 Force of Will
5 Aetherspouts
5 Sylvan Reclamation
7 Fated Retribution
8 Dig Through Time
Sorceries (23)
1 Serum Visions
1 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Wildest Dreams
2 Winds of Abandon
3 Borrowing 100,000 Arrows
3 Council's Judgment
4 Day of Judgment
4 Wrath of God
4 Supreme Verdict
5 Hallowed Burial
5 Cleansing Nova
5 Rout
6 Final Judgment
6 Descend upon the Sinful
6 Austere Command
6 Righteous Fury
6 Terminus
6 Planar Cleansing
6 Hour of Revelation
7 All Is Dust
8 Treasure Cruise
8 Play of the Game
1 Telepathy
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Lignify
2 Darksteel Mutation
3 Deep Freeze
3 Imprisoned in the Moon
3 Song of the Dryads
Lands (42)
1 Island of Wak-Wak
1 Maze of Ith
1 Vesuva
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Homeward Path
1 Arch of Orazca
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Scattered Groves
1 Canopy Vista
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
7 Island
2 Forest
5 Plains
Changelog
Dreams of the Sphinx (Sharuum the Hegemon)
Here Today, Gone Tomorrow (Roon of the Hidden Realm)
For vår jord (Azusa, Lost But Seeking)
Black Power (Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed)
I guess so. My original idea, though, was to make a deck that would only use the removal when needed. But it seems that when they know you have the potential, they'll want to hit you preemptively.
Dreams of the Sphinx (Sharuum the Hegemon)
Here Today, Gone Tomorrow (Roon of the Hidden Realm)
For vår jord (Azusa, Lost But Seeking)
Black Power (Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed)
Out of curiosity, You said you didn't want a lot of permanents so I get not having mana rocks, but why no land ramp? You've got a commander that gives you access to green the rampiest color out there.
Phelddagrif is tricky to make a good primer for because, at the end of the day, it's very depending on how your opponents respond to it. I've had tables that ignored me the whole time and I won easily. I've had tables that gunned for me way harder than seemed reasonable. And everything in between. But there's no telling what's going to set people off. Lower power level tables might see an ABU dual and go for the throat, while others might expect that lack of budget.
And of course, it's also dependent on you as a player, and whether people perceive you as a threat and in what way. I've tried as hard as I can to keep the threat level as low as possible while being as functional as possible, but someone else's experience might be different.
Anyway, one difficulty with building a deck like Phelddagrif is that there's sort of a narrow ledge you have to walk between being strong enough to control the game but weak enough to avoid looking too threatening. And if you push it too far and start drawing hate, it's easy to keep pushing the deck into heavier and heavier control to fix the problem - "if I'd just had another board wipe, I would have survived" mentality.
And that's what it LOOKS like has happened to your list, from my experience. You've got WAY too many wipes. If you're wiping frequently, you can expect your opponents to exercise some pattern recognition and start targeting you to either force the wipe ASAP, or kill you before you draw it. I count 19 wipes, depending on definition. I think running more than 9 is a mistake that will get you targeted.
The second problem is that you've got a LOT of what I call neutralization removal - usually enchantment-type removal designed to remove someone's commander permanently or at least semi-permanently. I would run 1, or 2 on the outside. Neutralization is a last resort solution for commanders that are too dangerous to let live, or for the 1v1 game. If you're firing them off all the time, you can bet that's going to motivate people to kill you so they can get their commanders back. The situation you want to be employing them in is when everyone agrees that X commander is way too scary and wants to defend YOU to keep that commander neutralized (or when it's 1v1). With this many of them, you're bound to end up firing them off on less threatening targets and just pissing people off. Cut it down to 1-2.
I think lands like maze of ith and island of wak-wak (are you seriously running this?) are more symptoms of pushing your threat level too far. You shouldn't need them. You shouldn't be attacked in the first place - people shouldn't want to hurt you that much, and you've got block + bounce to dissuade them - and you should have more targeted instant-speed removal to deal with someone who's really going after you. On-board answers like ith makes people think "uh oh he's building a wall of protection I might not be able to assail if I don't start targeting him ASAP" You want to look vulnerable so that people don't worry about their ability to deal with you later.
Finally, and this is more a matter of personal preference, I don't think we get enough value off single-shot draw spells like ponder, or borrowing 10,000 arrows. I'd pick out your favourite repeatable CA engines and pack in some tutors for them. Playing a bunch of small scry/draw spells makes it look like you're sculpting yourself into something nasty. I'm less confident about this, because I think you COULD make a good Phelddagrif list with single-shot draw, but I don't think it's as reliable as hitting something repeatable and just relying on that. Don't forget [[bonder's enclave]]!
As far as replacements - more targeted instant-speed removal, more counterspells, more tutors for your favourite repeatable draw engines, and probably more land - ZNR is going to make a big splash here with the DFC lands, so don't forget about those.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6