01-11-2016 EDIT: new deck list and context changes added and marked in red so you don't have to read older comments. This EDIT covers up to and including post #12
01-20-2016 EDIT: changed a few cards, included some artifact hate, and corrected post for the Prophet of Kruphix ban. This EDIT covers up to and including post #15
Thanks for reading. I'm a huge fan of EDH and have been playing it for a while. I've been using this forum for a long time but only now have I felt the need to post something. I'm trying to make a competitive Derevi stax deck. I've browsed these forums and others trying to find ideas to make it faster or at least stronger. I have a list put together that I have been play testing. It does ok but it's not very consistent and it's very draw dependent. I have since made changes and I will test them next chance I get. I have about 20 tap/taxing effects but I am losing to decks that can go off turn 6 or 7. I need to be able to slow them down with taxing/tapping so that I can gradually lock them out. I also need to get specific hate fast enough. The easy answer is MOAR TUTORS! I think I have enough tutoring. What do you think? Finding good cards to add is not so hard. What's hard is choosing some cards over others. Also, has anyone used Kismet and Frozen Æther? If so were they worth it?
To be specific, what I want is a stax deck that (in that order):
Prevents opponents from getting out of hand too early (turn 6 or 7 at least)
Focuses on abusing tapping and untapping mechanics
Is resilient
Is able to deal with threats that slip through
Additional information and FAQ:
What is your meta like and how do you plan to address it?
Most decks in it tend to ramp early without putting too many threats out, then start doing powerful effects turns 6+ or so. There are no super-hyper-competitive decks (except one of mine) so no one really wins too early. It ends up being a very political game because whoever starts putting out threats first gets targeted by the rest. There are only 2 combo players, me and a girl that wins by combo turn 15 or so hahaha so no problem there. About 2 or 3 artifact decks (Daretti, Scrap Savant). There are mostly creature decks like Xenagos, Ezuri, Tasigur, and Roon. My goal is to slow them down so that I can delay their power spikes and build up an even better board that eventually locks them out completely. A big card to beat is Cyclonic Rift since that would screw me over and there are a lot of decks that run it.
Are you trying to win at all costs?
I don't mind losing. When I really want to win I play cobblepott_mtgs's Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck that wins consistently on turn 4 haha (props to that guy). Right now I play almost exclusively EDH with some limited in there. I want to have a decent chance to win but I get the most fun out of having card interactions that create interesting situations. For example, Winter Orb and Seedborn Muse are very good together. Then using Derevi and other creatures to tap the opponent's lands so he can only have 1 open per turn. That kind of stuff is what puts a smile in my face (and steals it from my opponent's face). In fact, the reason I chose Derevi out of other commanders is that I wanted to play Stasis and abuse it hahaha. I'm not trying to get Stasis out every game, but that card summarizes my game plan.
Why don't you play XYZ card?
I might not know about it haha. It is also possible that I've considered it and decided not to. Check the "Cards that didn't make the cut" section to see if I've considered a card and my reasoning for not playing it. If it's not there or if you think I still should feel free to tell me how wrong I am! That's what we are here for.
Why not more mana dorks or Thalia?
I want to reduce non-token creatures to a minimum, playing only high value cards like Seedborn Muse, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, and Gaddock Teeg, and using tokens to actually bypass untapping restrictions. Agaisnt creature decks, effects that punish casting creatures or putting nontoken creatures into play might be beneficial. Overburden is an example (it's been errated to "nontoken creature"). It won't trigger with tokens and I don't mind it affecting me a bit if it means having Prophet out since having artifact ramp and untap effects will bypass it. It will however, be a burden (haha pun) on my opponents and make them think twice about casting creatures. If I can lock the board properly I have all the time in the world to kill my opponents by a thousand 1/1 cuts. Hence the token strategy. Lastly, I currently play 3 mana dorks (Birds of Paradise, Bloom Tender, and Noble Hierarch) and they make the cut because they are simply the best in my colors.
One-time effects like Brainstorm and Tariff
The objective here is to lock the game by reducing my opponents resources to a minimum. If I succeed it ends up being a grindy game, I rather not play cards that will have a one-time effect and steer more towards something like Meekstone that will continuously stop threats. There are some exceptions of course, such as Supreme Verdict and other wrath effects, but those are extremely powerful in term of how they affect the board.
Why not play counterspells?
Yes there is a reason I don’t play counter spells. I HATE them. I will only run them if absolutely necessary. But I will try to avoid them as much as possible. I might run some in this deck (is 3 or 4 a good number?) just to deal with boardwhipes like Merciless Eviction that try to get rid of my lockdown in one swoop.
These are cards that might make the cut but I'm not 100% sure. They might depend on the meta. For most of these the biggest problem is finding what they will replace. Turns out 99 cards isn’t actually that much hahaha.
Basalt Monolith: The mana rocks I already have seem superior. This also requires that I spend an untap trigger on it to make it beneficial. The closest comparison is Than Dynamo. It costs more but untaps for free.
Centaur Glade: While it is a good token engine and mana sink. I don't expect to have that much mana available. Luminarch Ascension is also a mana sink but comes out sooner and produces stronger tokens with evasion.
Counterspell: What would I take out? And even if I include it it seems like 1 counter type spell is not enough if I want to go that route. I have to think of about 4 or 5 cards to switch out in favor of counterspells.
Intuition: While it can search me 3 token producers or 3 draw engines, I am not sure what to take out and I don't have a reliable way of getting those cards out of the graveyard.
Mobilization: This seems better than Centaur Glade. I might not need more token generation (I am checking this), however, and I think the generators I already have are superior. Thoughts?
Wargate: Seems good for tutoring specific tax or hate effects but the cost and sorcery speed are drawbacks.
Cards that didn't make the cut
Arena of the Ancients: While it does look good it think it would damage me more. In my meta people don't play their commanders too much. The ones that are played are used for their effects rather than any attack. The effect is just not powerful enough. On the other hand, I am running Captain Sisay and Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, both of which would like to untap.
Arcanis the Omnipotent: While this card is great, especially with untap triggers, it does cost a lot (with UUU) and is likely to be targeted. I also would rather stay away from creatures if I can get similar effects with non-creature cards or tokens.
Armageddon: My playgroups frown upon mass land destruction (MLD). I rather have effects like Rising Waters or Stasis that have almost the same effect but that I can bypass with untap triggers.
You may want to search around for Glix's Derevi prison primer. It is the best document I've read on Derevi stax/prison. The problems you are having is a result of not having enough acceleration to drop a tax piece T1 or T2. In addition if an opponent has a 5+ permanent T1 you need Null Rod, Stony Silence, or Kataki to reel them back.
Quick explanation of my meta. Most decks in it tend to ramp early without putting too many threats out, then start doing powerful effects turns 6+ or so. There are no super-hyper-competitive decks (except one of mine) so no one really wins too early. It ends up being a very political game because whoever starts putting out threats first gets targeted by the rest. There is only 2 combo players, me and a girl that wins by combo turn 15 or so ahhahaha so no problem there. About 2 or 3 artifacts decks (Deretti mostly). Mostly creature decks like Xenagos, Ezuri, Tasigur, Roon. My goal is to slow them down so that I can delay their power spikes and build up an even better board that eventually locks them out completely. A big card to beat is Cyclonic Rift. Since that would screw me over and there are a lot of decks that run it.
Arena of the Ancients is a hilarious edh stax card. Legendary creatures don't untap, and it taps them all when it enters. Perfect with Derevi.
While it does look good it think it would damage me more. In my meta people don't play their commanders too much. The ones that are played are used for their effects rather than any attack. The effect is just not powerful enough. On the other hand, I am running Captain Sisay and Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, both of which would like to untap. Thanks though. I am actively looking for weird and forgotten cards like that.
Draw: Arcanis the Omnipotent can be great, if it survives a turn. Sphinx's Revelation if you find yourself with a lot of mana before your turn.
If you like it cheaper: Mystic Remora is great against most of the better decks. Brainstorm and similar effects are great. Scroll Rack works great with the shuffle effects.
Tutors: Birthing Pod can be great. Makes your deck very resilient.
Cards if would cut: From Beyond gives you one token per turn for 4 mana. There are better options, I think. Sword of the Animist is nice, but we have faster options in green. Alhammarret's Archive should be cut, if you a looking to speed your game up. Garruk, Primal Hunter is an easy cut, since you don't have strong creatures. Garruk Wildspeaker is way better (especially with Cradle!) Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: maybe for the draw? But I don't like her to much, in your list (and I don't see her as a stax effect). Teferi, Temporal Archmage should fit better, with his untap.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion Yes you are right. This card has been on my maybe list for a while. Will put it in an see how it goes.
On your ramp suggestions:
I’ve seen Bloom Tender in many lists recently. I just didn’t get around to adding it. Will do so. Basalt monolith seems solid. I will not add the other two because I want to stay away from expensive cards since I already am spending in other decks (the Gaea's Cradle is a proxy hehe). That is also why I don’t have duo-lands.
As for the land fetching spells, I would prefer to have ramp that also does other things. Creature ramp can also attack, artifact ramp usually produces more than 1 so untapping it is beneficial. The ones you suggested aren’t bad, but I would just cut them in favor of mana dorks.
On your draw suggestions: Arcanis the Omnipotent seems great. Like you said he might get targeted. Maybe Azami, lady of scrolls would fly under the radar a little more? And it would come in a turn earlier. Sphinx's Revelation as a rule for myself, I try to stay away from non-repeatable draw effects. It seems to me that if my deck works well I much mana (unless I cheat the untaps) and wouldn’t make this worth it. Honestly I don’t know haha. If I have nothing better I’ll try it but 7-8 draw effects is fine and if they are repeatable it rather have those. Same goes for Brainstorm and those effects. Mystic Remora sounds good. I’ll give this a try. There are no decks in my meta that play many spells per turn but since we play mostly 4-player pods paying one blue to draw 3 cards is good enough. Scroll Rack Will definitely get this one. Yesterday I saw it synergize with Land Tax. Broken is all I can say.
On your removal suggestions:
Yes there is a reason I don’t play counter spells. I HATE them. I will only run them if absolutely necessary. But I will try to avoid them as much as possible. I might run some in this deck (is 3 or 4 a good number?) just to deal with boardwhipes like Merciless Eviction that try to get rid of my lockdown in one swoop. I should probably run those two that you suggested with multiple effects. Aura Shards is going in. As for Trygon Predator, I will put him in the waitlist hahaha.
On your tutor suggestions:
Here is where I made a decision early on in deck design. I decided to try to stay away from things that would put my creatures on the graveyard. If I did this, I would be able to reduce my reanimation effects to a minimum (Sun Titan and Eternal Witness are just too good). That’s why I also don’t have have Survival of the Fittest (broken BTW) and Fauna Shaman. If I ran these I feel I’d have to also run more effects that make use of creatures in the grave. I don’t mind doing it but space is limited. Turns out 99 cards isn’t actually that much hahaha.
On your cut suggestions: From Beyond is there to give me creatures reliably even when no one has mana and it’s not a creature itself. The 1 extra mana compared to Awakening Zone is worth it since those tokens are 1/1. This means they can attack and trigger Derevi, Empyrial Tactician and Edric, Spymaster of Trest. They also ramp. Yes they are kinda slow, but I’m not winning fast anyways. If I can lock the board properly I have all the time in the world to kill my opponents by a thousand 1/1 cuts. Sword of the Animist probably can change for a mana dork. The upside is that it provides increasing value (mana dork = 1 more mana per turn, Sword = 1, 2, 3 and so on) and can stick around to equip to those 1/1 tokens after a boardwhipe. I think you are right that it isn’t fast. But it a recurring benefit. Will test more with and without it. Alhammarret's Archive Will take your word on this and blame you if I lose a game. LoL
Garruk for Garruk. Magically I forgot I had some broken lands. I will do this. Thanks. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage Was here to draw off their tapped creatures but it never drew much. You are right, Teferi, Temporal Archmage is way better. Will change this.
also your wrath of god variants are contrary to your own creatureplan
if your metagame is slow enough you can run the ravnica bouncelands as they are great with derevi
mentor of the meek and luminarch ascension are only recommended if you feel manaflooded, as you do not want to tax yourself but others
thalia might be bad for you too as she needs you to be the main creature-deck at the table
what decks are your problems aka finishing turn 6/7? are they relying on artifact mana?
there are
Yes mana dorks seem to be underrated. I am learning that the power they provide is actually noticeable in terms of speed. Will add more efficient ones like Bloom tender. The only issue is the wrath effects.
On the subject of wraths, I added them as a way to deal with heavy creature decks (Meren, Ezuri, and zombies in my meta) and added a bunch of token generators that will refill my side of the board. My game plan is to play a few value creatures and token generators so that I am ready to board whipe in case someone else gets out of hand. That’s also why I have some equipments.
Mentor of the meek does look mana intensive but if I have the mana it can be a pretty valuable draw engine. I will keep this in mind but I want to play test him a bit more before cutting him. Luminarch ascension is a pretty good token engine. I am not trying to win with it, just get some tokens to get attack triggers and recover from boardwhipes. I don’t need to make too many in one turn. The issue is that in my meta it gets targeted a lot so I might take your advice and cut it but only if I can find a replacement token producer.
You’re right on Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. I have found myself in games where she is annoying me. But is it really that bad? I do have other taxing effects. What makes her worse that those? She being a creature allows me to attack and get triggers.
The deck that is killing me fast is my own Momir Vig, Simic Visionary deck hahaha (I want to get it in the primers list). When I playtest against my own deck it can’t win. The only way is to get Hushwing Gryff out but I have to find it.
As for artifact hate, I am a little hesitant to run any since I have 21 artifacts in my current build. That can potentially hurt me more that anyone. Most decks in my meta (except for the odd Daretti, Scrap Savant deck) run just Sol Ring, a signet or two, and 1 or 2 other value artifacts. Spot removal is better in those cases.
You are totally right on Rising Waters. It avoids the emotional damage you cause from using MLD and it does not affect me equally. Thanks. Any other card like this you can think of?
You may want to search around for Glix's Derevi prison primer. It is the best document I've read on Derevi stax/prison. The problems you are having is a result of not having enough acceleration to drop a tax piece T1 or T2. In addition if an opponent has a 5+ permanent T1 you need Null Rod, Stony Silence, or Kataki to reel them back.
Will look into that. There is no Derevi deck in the Primers list, only Roon and Jenara for Bant colors. You're right, mana dork acceleration might be the key here. Like I said to elfric, I am a little hesitant to run artifact hate since I have 21 artifacts in my current build
Thanks guys. As I make changes I will add edits to the main post.
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"He played a Plains, he's getting out of control!"
I don't mind losing. When I really want to win I play cobblepot's Karador deck that wins consistently on turn 4 haha (props to that guy).
Right now I play almost exclusively EDH with some limited in there. I want to have a decent chance to win but I get the most fun out of having card interactions that create interesting situations. For example, Winter Orb and Prophet are very good together. Then using Derevi and other creatures to tap the opponents lands so he can only have 1 open per turn. That kind of stuff is what puts a smile in my face (and steals it from my opponent's face). In fact, the reason I chose Derevi out of other commanders is that I wanted to play Stasis and abuse it hahaha. There are other reasons but that's the main one. I have a tendency to want to make decks around specific cards that aren't the commander. I'm not trying to get Stasis out every game, but that card summarizes my game plan. I want to play stax. I have multiple decks of many kinds (combo, creatureless-ish, artifact, tribal, chaos). My objective here is to add a decent stax deck to the collection. I realize creature decks might give me a hard time but that's ok, I shall try anyways. I want those hard match-ups. They are more fun than winning every time.
I have survived pretty well after wrath effect with the current build so I'm not too worried. I just stay clear of going too creature intensive.
The only issue I have with Arcanis is high CMC. I am trying to stay at around 3. That way I can fill the board with tax effects and be ok since my stuff is cheap. That's also the reason I have doubted putting in Elspeth, Sun's Champion.
I want to reduce non-token creatures to a minimum, playing only high value cards like Prophet, Edric, and Gaddock Teeg, and using tokens to actually bypass untapping restrictions. Agaisnt creature decks, effects that punish casting creatures or putting nontoken creatures into play might be beneficial. Overburden is an example (it's been errated to "nontoken creature"). It won't trigger with tokens and I don't mind it affecting me a bit if it means having Prophet out since having artifact ramp and untap effects will bypass it. It will however, be a burden (hah pun) on my opponents and make them think twice about casting creatures. What do you think?
Since this ends up being a grindy game, I rather not play cards like Tariff that will have a one-time effect and steer more towards something like Meekstone.
On the topic of "fun" card interactions I run Humility and Night of Souls' Betrayal in another deck. Every time I resolve both I tell my opponents I've won the game and that they can now do whatever they want.
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"He played a Plains, he's getting out of control!"
They do run Chaos Warp. They also run Counterspell but there is only one dedicated mono-blue player. Most people play Reclamation Sage instead of Naturalize and I have seen no one playing Disenchant. Most white players also play other colors.
When I said that I told them I win I meant that in my heart I've won. The game usually ends with everyone trying to kill me first, but I don't care because the emotional damage has been done hahaha.
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Yes so that is what I am looking for. Will give Intuition a try. Any idea for getting those back from the grave apart from Sun Titan or Eternal Witness?
Manasinks are a good idea. Centaur Glade is good but expensive. I don't need the tokens to be big, 1 power is enough to trigger Derevi and draw effects. Any other cheaper ideas?
I have plenty or manarocks, I'll add more that can benefit from untaps like Basalt Monolith.
I still wouldn't trow away Yisan. What makes him so good is that the activation is cheap and I can stack untap triggers on him. Having 2 creatures of each CMC is good enough. He's been really good in play testing. I'll give Wargate a try since it can get me specific hate cards for each situation.
After playing some game this week I have decided to take out Trinisphere. It's alright but it doesn't stack well with Sphere of Resistance which is simply cheaper and a much better version. The only difference is that for spells of CMC 1 Trinisphere will add 2 but then it's useless vs. higher CMC spells, which is what commander is all about.
I will replace it with Stony Silence. While in the past I have been hesitant to add artifact hate I think I'll do fine with this one. It does nullify my mana rocks but I find myself flooded when I don't have untap restricting effects. Apart from mana rocks my other artifacts are only static effects with no activated abilities like Static Orb. Lastly, I will only really play Stony Silence if there is an artifact deck in the field (or a specific high threat single artifact) in which case Stony Silence will affect the other guys more than me. For those reasons I can't include Kataki, War's Wage or Energy Flux since those WILL affect me equally and we don't want that, do we? I will also add Null Rod as well as soon as I figure out what to remove.
I will update the main post on this tomorrow most likely.
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"He played a Plains, he's getting out of control!"
01-11-2016 EDIT: new deck list and context changes added and marked in red so you don't have to read older comments. This EDIT covers up to and including post #12
01-20-2016 EDIT: changed a few cards, included some artifact hate, and corrected post for the Prophet of Kruphix ban. This EDIT covers up to and including post #15
Thanks for reading. I'm a huge fan of EDH and have been playing it for a while. I've been using this forum for a long time but only now have I felt the need to post something. I'm trying to make a competitive Derevi stax deck. I've browsed these forums and others trying to find ideas to make it faster or at least stronger. I have a list put together that I have been play testing. It does ok but it's not very consistent and it's very draw dependent. I have since made changes and I will test them next chance I get. I have about 20 tap/taxing effects but I am losing to decks that can go off turn 6 or 7. I need to be able to slow them down with taxing/tapping so that I can gradually lock them out. I also need to get specific hate fast enough. The easy answer is MOAR TUTORS! I think I have enough tutoring. What do you think? Finding good cards to add is not so hard. What's hard is choosing some cards over others. Also, has anyone used Kismet and Frozen Æther? If so were they worth it?
To be specific, what I want is a stax deck that (in that order):
Additional information and FAQ:
What is your meta like and how do you plan to address it?
Most decks in it tend to ramp early without putting too many threats out, then start doing powerful effects turns 6+ or so. There are no super-hyper-competitive decks (except one of mine) so no one really wins too early. It ends up being a very political game because whoever starts putting out threats first gets targeted by the rest. There are only 2 combo players, me and a girl that wins by combo turn 15 or so hahaha so no problem there. About 2 or 3 artifact decks (Daretti, Scrap Savant). There are mostly creature decks like Xenagos, Ezuri, Tasigur, and Roon. My goal is to slow them down so that I can delay their power spikes and build up an even better board that eventually locks them out completely. A big card to beat is Cyclonic Rift since that would screw me over and there are a lot of decks that run it.
Are you trying to win at all costs?
I don't mind losing. When I really want to win I play cobblepott_mtgs's Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck that wins consistently on turn 4 haha (props to that guy). Right now I play almost exclusively EDH with some limited in there. I want to have a decent chance to win but I get the most fun out of having card interactions that create interesting situations. For example, Winter Orb and Seedborn Muse are very good together. Then using Derevi and other creatures to tap the opponent's lands so he can only have 1 open per turn. That kind of stuff is what puts a smile in my face (and steals it from my opponent's face). In fact, the reason I chose Derevi out of other commanders is that I wanted to play Stasis and abuse it hahaha. I'm not trying to get Stasis out every game, but that card summarizes my game plan.
Why don't you play XYZ card?
I might not know about it haha. It is also possible that I've considered it and decided not to. Check the "Cards that didn't make the cut" section to see if I've considered a card and my reasoning for not playing it. If it's not there or if you think I still should feel free to tell me how wrong I am! That's what we are here for.
Why not more mana dorks or Thalia?
I want to reduce non-token creatures to a minimum, playing only high value cards like Seedborn Muse, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, and Gaddock Teeg, and using tokens to actually bypass untapping restrictions. Agaisnt creature decks, effects that punish casting creatures or putting nontoken creatures into play might be beneficial. Overburden is an example (it's been errated to "nontoken creature"). It won't trigger with tokens and I don't mind it affecting me a bit if it means having Prophet out since having artifact ramp and untap effects will bypass it. It will however, be a burden (haha pun) on my opponents and make them think twice about casting creatures. If I can lock the board properly I have all the time in the world to kill my opponents by a thousand 1/1 cuts. Hence the token strategy. Lastly, I currently play 3 mana dorks (Birds of Paradise, Bloom Tender, and Noble Hierarch) and they make the cut because they are simply the best in my colors.
One-time effects like Brainstorm and Tariff
The objective here is to lock the game by reducing my opponents resources to a minimum. If I succeed it ends up being a grindy game, I rather not play cards that will have a one-time effect and steer more towards something like Meekstone that will continuously stop threats. There are some exceptions of course, such as Supreme Verdict and other wrath effects, but those are extremely powerful in term of how they affect the board.
Why not play counterspells?
Yes there is a reason I don’t play counter spells. I HATE them. I will only run them if absolutely necessary. But I will try to avoid them as much as possible. I might run some in this deck (is 3 or 4 a good number?) just to deal with boardwhipes like Merciless Eviction that try to get rid of my lockdown in one swoop.
Here is the current list!
1x Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
Token production
1x Awakening Zone
1x From Beyond
1x Luminarch Ascension
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Ramp
1x Azorius Signet
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Bloom Tender
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Coalition Relic
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Selesnya Signet
1x Simic Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Thran Dynamo
Untap
1x Copperhorn Scout
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nature's Will
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Utility
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Eternal Witness
1x Land Tax
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sun Titan
Tutors
1x Captain Sisay
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
1x Bident of Thassa
1x Coastal Piracy
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1x Mentor of the Meek
1x Mystic Remora
1x Rhystic Study
1x Scroll Rack
1x Skullclamp
Removal
1x Aura Shards
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Wrath of God
STAX effects
1x Aura of Silence
1x Blind Obedience
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
1x Hokori, Dust Drinker
1x Hushwing Gryff
1x Karmic Justice
1x Land Equilibrium
1x Mana Vortex
1x Meekstone
1x Null Rod
1x Overburden
1x Propaganda
1x Rising Waters
1x Root Maze
1x Smokestack
1x Sphere of Resistance
1x Stasis
1x Static Orb
1x Stony Silence
1x Winter Orb
1x Academy Ruins
1x Alchemist's Refuge
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Bant Panorama
1x Breeding Pool
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Strand
4x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Hallowed Fountain
4x Island
1x Krosan Verge
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Plains
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of the False God
1x Windswept Heath
Maybeboard
These are cards that might make the cut but I'm not 100% sure. They might depend on the meta. For most of these the biggest problem is finding what they will replace. Turns out 99 cards isn’t actually that much hahaha.
Cards that didn't make the cut
Change Log
Out
In
Out
In
GWUDerevi, Empyrial TaPticianGWU
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainBGW
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryUG
WUBRGReaper King - Superfriends
WUBRGChild of Alara - The Nauseating Aurora
WUBSharuum the Hegemon - Christmas In Prison
WUBZur the Enchanter - Ow My Face
WRJor Kadeen, the Prevailer - Snow Goats
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden - International Goblin All Purpose Recycling Facility Number 12
WGSaffi Eriksdotter - Saffi Combosdotter
UPatron of the Moon - The Age of Aquarius
BHorobi, Death's Wail - Bring Out Your Dead
GSachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Sneks
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
While it does look good it think it would damage me more. In my meta people don't play their commanders too much. The ones that are played are used for their effects rather than any attack. The effect is just not powerful enough. On the other hand, I am running Captain Sisay and Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, both of which would like to untap. Thanks though. I am actively looking for weird and forgotten cards like that.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion Yes you are right. This card has been on my maybe list for a while. Will put it in an see how it goes.
On your ramp suggestions:
I’ve seen Bloom Tender in many lists recently. I just didn’t get around to adding it. Will do so. Basalt monolith seems solid. I will not add the other two because I want to stay away from expensive cards since I already am spending in other decks (the Gaea's Cradle is a proxy hehe). That is also why I don’t have duo-lands.
As for the land fetching spells, I would prefer to have ramp that also does other things. Creature ramp can also attack, artifact ramp usually produces more than 1 so untapping it is beneficial. The ones you suggested aren’t bad, but I would just cut them in favor of mana dorks.
On your draw suggestions:
Arcanis the Omnipotent seems great. Like you said he might get targeted. Maybe Azami, lady of scrolls would fly under the radar a little more? And it would come in a turn earlier.
Sphinx's Revelation as a rule for myself, I try to stay away from non-repeatable draw effects. It seems to me that if my deck works well I much mana (unless I cheat the untaps) and wouldn’t make this worth it. Honestly I don’t know haha. If I have nothing better I’ll try it but 7-8 draw effects is fine and if they are repeatable it rather have those. Same goes for Brainstorm and those effects.
Mystic Remora sounds good. I’ll give this a try. There are no decks in my meta that play many spells per turn but since we play mostly 4-player pods paying one blue to draw 3 cards is good enough.
Scroll Rack Will definitely get this one. Yesterday I saw it synergize with Land Tax. Broken is all I can say.
On your removal suggestions:
Yes there is a reason I don’t play counter spells. I HATE them. I will only run them if absolutely necessary. But I will try to avoid them as much as possible. I might run some in this deck (is 3 or 4 a good number?) just to deal with boardwhipes like Merciless Eviction that try to get rid of my lockdown in one swoop. I should probably run those two that you suggested with multiple effects. Aura Shards is going in. As for Trygon Predator, I will put him in the waitlist hahaha.
On your tutor suggestions:
Here is where I made a decision early on in deck design. I decided to try to stay away from things that would put my creatures on the graveyard. If I did this, I would be able to reduce my reanimation effects to a minimum (Sun Titan and Eternal Witness are just too good). That’s why I also don’t have have Survival of the Fittest (broken BTW) and Fauna Shaman. If I ran these I feel I’d have to also run more effects that make use of creatures in the grave. I don’t mind doing it but space is limited. Turns out 99 cards isn’t actually that much hahaha.
On your cut suggestions:
From Beyond is there to give me creatures reliably even when no one has mana and it’s not a creature itself. The 1 extra mana compared to Awakening Zone is worth it since those tokens are 1/1. This means they can attack and trigger Derevi, Empyrial Tactician and Edric, Spymaster of Trest. They also ramp. Yes they are kinda slow, but I’m not winning fast anyways. If I can lock the board properly I have all the time in the world to kill my opponents by a thousand 1/1 cuts.
Sword of the Animist probably can change for a mana dork. The upside is that it provides increasing value (mana dork = 1 more mana per turn, Sword = 1, 2, 3 and so on) and can stick around to equip to those 1/1 tokens after a boardwhipe. I think you are right that it isn’t fast. But it a recurring benefit. Will test more with and without it.
Alhammarret's Archive Will take your word on this and blame you if I lose a game. LoL
Garruk for Garruk. Magically I forgot I had some broken lands. I will do this. Thanks.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage Was here to draw off their tapped creatures but it never drew much. You are right, Teferi, Temporal Archmage is way better. Will change this.
Thanks, I’ll cut those cards. Will add Coastal Piracy. As for Azami, Lady of scrolls, do you think it’s better to run her or Arcanis the Omnipotent given that I currently only have 3 wizards in the deck (including Azami)?
Yes mana dorks seem to be underrated. I am learning that the power they provide is actually noticeable in terms of speed. Will add more efficient ones like Bloom tender. The only issue is the wrath effects.
On the subject of wraths, I added them as a way to deal with heavy creature decks (Meren, Ezuri, and zombies in my meta) and added a bunch of token generators that will refill my side of the board. My game plan is to play a few value creatures and token generators so that I am ready to board whipe in case someone else gets out of hand. That’s also why I have some equipments.
Mentor of the meek does look mana intensive but if I have the mana it can be a pretty valuable draw engine. I will keep this in mind but I want to play test him a bit more before cutting him.
Luminarch ascension is a pretty good token engine. I am not trying to win with it, just get some tokens to get attack triggers and recover from boardwhipes. I don’t need to make too many in one turn. The issue is that in my meta it gets targeted a lot so I might take your advice and cut it but only if I can find a replacement token producer.
You’re right on Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. I have found myself in games where she is annoying me. But is it really that bad? I do have other taxing effects. What makes her worse that those? She being a creature allows me to attack and get triggers.
The deck that is killing me fast is my own Momir Vig, Simic Visionary deck hahaha (I want to get it in the primers list). When I playtest against my own deck it can’t win. The only way is to get Hushwing Gryff out but I have to find it.
As for artifact hate, I am a little hesitant to run any since I have 21 artifacts in my current build. That can potentially hurt me more that anyone. Most decks in my meta (except for the odd Daretti, Scrap Savant deck) run just Sol Ring, a signet or two, and 1 or 2 other value artifacts. Spot removal is better in those cases.
You are totally right on Rising Waters. It avoids the emotional damage you cause from using MLD and it does not affect me equally. Thanks. Any other card like this you can think of?
Will look into that. There is no Derevi deck in the Primers list, only Roon and Jenara for Bant colors. You're right, mana dork acceleration might be the key here. Like I said to elfric, I am a little hesitant to run artifact hate since I have 21 artifacts in my current build
Thanks guys. As I make changes I will add edits to the main post.
GWUDerevi, Empyrial TaPticianGWU
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainBGW
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryUG
I don't mind losing. When I really want to win I play cobblepot's Karador deck that wins consistently on turn 4 haha (props to that guy).
Right now I play almost exclusively EDH with some limited in there. I want to have a decent chance to win but I get the most fun out of having card interactions that create interesting situations. For example, Winter Orb and Prophet are very good together. Then using Derevi and other creatures to tap the opponents lands so he can only have 1 open per turn. That kind of stuff is what puts a smile in my face (and steals it from my opponent's face). In fact, the reason I chose Derevi out of other commanders is that I wanted to play Stasis and abuse it hahaha. There are other reasons but that's the main one. I have a tendency to want to make decks around specific cards that aren't the commander. I'm not trying to get Stasis out every game, but that card summarizes my game plan. I want to play stax. I have multiple decks of many kinds (combo, creatureless-ish, artifact, tribal, chaos). My objective here is to add a decent stax deck to the collection. I realize creature decks might give me a hard time but that's ok, I shall try anyways. I want those hard match-ups. They are more fun than winning every time.
I have survived pretty well after wrath effect with the current build so I'm not too worried. I just stay clear of going too creature intensive.
The only issue I have with Arcanis is high CMC. I am trying to stay at around 3. That way I can fill the board with tax effects and be ok since my stuff is cheap. That's also the reason I have doubted putting in Elspeth, Sun's Champion.
I want to reduce non-token creatures to a minimum, playing only high value cards like Prophet, Edric, and Gaddock Teeg, and using tokens to actually bypass untapping restrictions. Agaisnt creature decks, effects that punish casting creatures or putting nontoken creatures into play might be beneficial. Overburden is an example (it's been errated to "nontoken creature"). It won't trigger with tokens and I don't mind it affecting me a bit if it means having Prophet out since having artifact ramp and untap effects will bypass it. It will however, be a burden (hah pun) on my opponents and make them think twice about casting creatures. What do you think?
Since this ends up being a grindy game, I rather not play cards like Tariff that will have a one-time effect and steer more towards something like Meekstone.
On the topic of "fun" card interactions I run Humility and Night of Souls' Betrayal in another deck. Every time I resolve both I tell my opponents I've won the game and that they can now do whatever they want.
GWUDerevi, Empyrial TaPticianGWU
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainBGW
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryUG
When I said that I told them I win I meant that in my heart I've won. The game usually ends with everyone trying to kill me first, but I don't care because the emotional damage has been done hahaha.
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Yes so that is what I am looking for. Will give Intuition a try. Any idea for getting those back from the grave apart from Sun Titan or Eternal Witness?
Manasinks are a good idea. Centaur Glade is good but expensive. I don't need the tokens to be big, 1 power is enough to trigger Derevi and draw effects. Any other cheaper ideas?
I have plenty or manarocks, I'll add more that can benefit from untaps like Basalt Monolith.
I still wouldn't trow away Yisan. What makes him so good is that the activation is cheap and I can stack untap triggers on him. Having 2 creatures of each CMC is good enough. He's been really good in play testing. I'll give Wargate a try since it can get me specific hate cards for each situation.
GWUDerevi, Empyrial TaPticianGWU
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainBGW
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryUG
GWUDerevi, Empyrial TaPticianGWU
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainBGW
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryUG
I will replace it with Stony Silence. While in the past I have been hesitant to add artifact hate I think I'll do fine with this one. It does nullify my mana rocks but I find myself flooded when I don't have untap restricting effects. Apart from mana rocks my other artifacts are only static effects with no activated abilities like Static Orb. Lastly, I will only really play Stony Silence if there is an artifact deck in the field (or a specific high threat single artifact) in which case Stony Silence will affect the other guys more than me. For those reasons I can't include Kataki, War's Wage or Energy Flux since those WILL affect me equally and we don't want that, do we? I will also add Null Rod as well as soon as I figure out what to remove.
I will update the main post on this tomorrow most likely.
GWUDerevi, Empyrial TaPticianGWU
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainBGW
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryUG
GWUDerevi, Empyrial TaPticianGWU
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainBGW
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryUG
GWUDerevi, Empyrial TaPticianGWU
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainBGW
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryUG