The belly is an ungrateful wretch, it never remembers past favors, it always wants more tomorrow" - Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
History
Well when I first saw old Fluffy spoiled I knew that I wanted to build him, I envisioned sacrificing all my creatures and smashing through my opponents defenses for copious ammounts of general damage! When I actually sat down to build the deck I started to get the idea that smashing through might not always be viable, and it can be a fragile and easily disruptable strategy. So I added in some Fling effects to get me some alternate win conditions, and from there the deck started to evolve into a token swarm direct damage combo deck that is constantly evolving to this day.
Resons to/not to play Thromok:
To Play
You might enjoy playing Thromok if you like token stratigies or if you want to try them out. If you like having your deck built around your general but not having to rely on them totally then this will be a good fit as well. If you like ending the game out of nowhere by smashing face or massive direct damage combo plays then this is gonna tickle you in all the right places!
Not to Play
If you are looking for a control deck, then keep on looking because this deck doesn't care about what everyone else has going on...Mostly. If direct damage isn't your thing or you like to play a general just for it's colors then this probably won't work out for you too well. If you need to have a full hand at all times... Play blue.
:science:Stratagems:science:
Your main goal in this deck revolves around getting out tokens and using those in several different ways to outright kill your opponent. You want to do your best to look unassuming and only midline dangerous so that your opponents will focus their energy controlling the more overt players at the table. In the beginning you should be focusing on trying to ramp up as fast as possible with cards like Sol Ring, Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Oracle of Mul Daya, Solemn Simulacrum, and Awakening Zone (Which makes tokens too). After you are ramped or while you are ramping get those tokens out there! Mid game you if you can get Mana Reflection or Gaea's Cradel online it really helps. Also get those enablers out there in the mid game Parallel Lives, and Doubling Season really go a long way in giving you enough tokens to really deliver some devistating amounts of damage, and creature tutors like Birthing Pod, Chord of Calling, Worldly Tutor, Green Sun's Zenith, and Natural Order can help you get the token producers you need into play. In the endgame (which can come pretty quick) when you have enough tokens out if you are not holding a way to end the game Skullclamp can really help you draw into a winner. When you are ready to make a kill move you have a few options available which can all be used either alone or in combination with eachother. First up is overwhelming force If you have any creature tutors available, you can try to get Craterhoof Behemoth into play. Champion of Lambholt also works great here if you got her out earlier. Other cards that enable this kind of win are Beastmaster Ascension which you don't want to drop until you are ready to swing for the win, and Tears of Rage this seems like a high risk card but the upside of it is that you don't sacrifice the creatures until the end of your turn, so you can still eat them in the second main phase. You second option is to go for a direct damage combo. Cards that work for this kind of win are Pandemonium, and Warstorm Surge which work with Thromok when you devour the tokens and he comes in big they deal damage equal to his power to target opponent. you can also use Vicious Shadows for a similar/opposite effect, the massive ammounts of triggers you can get by devouring with Thromok will usually kill at least one opponent outright. Your two other cards that deal damage are Fling, and Soul's Fire. The latter of which is nice because you don't have to sacrifice Thromok by using it which will allow you swing afterwards. You last way of closing the deal is the massive general damage swing, and while this seems like fun, it should be used as a last resort as it's the most easily stoppable technique. You have a few cards in here which will let enable haste for Thromok so you can swing immediatly for the kill since you always want to explode, never wait a turn to attack if you can help it! You haste enablers are Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot boots, Anger, Urabrask the Hidden, Hall of the Bandit Lord, and Sarkhan Vol. The other thing you need when going for the swing strategy is a way to ensure you connect, there are a few ways in the deck to make this happen like Brawn, Kessig Wolfrun, and Rouge's Passage. Aside from that there is also a potential infinite combo victory which is the Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Zealous Conscripts infinite creature combo, and that's about it, have fun and happy casting!
Here I will go through the reasons for picking each card on the current list, this will be updated with current information as the deck evolves. I'm wrapping this in a spoiler to save space. Some redundancy in information will occur from the strategy section but hey you wanted to know right?
Artifacts
Birthing Pod - This can be used throughout the game to sacrifice creatures and bring out more token producers to really get a massive army out there, it can even enable a win if you grab Craterhoof Behemoth if you have Hornet Queen, or Avenger of Zendikar out already.
Lightning Greaves- Has the duel purpose of protecting and giving haste to your creatures... Especially Thromok
Mimic Vat - Since we don't have a lot of recursion in the deck but we also like to eat our creatures this lets us reuse our token generators, especially the ones that produce tokens when they ETB.
Sensei's Divining Top - EDH staple, helps with card quality, getting you what you need when you need it.
Skullclamp - Being in Gruul kinda makes us pron to running out of gas, this gem lets us go crazy on the draw by killing off our tokens with it to refill our hand or dig for a wincon late game.
Sol Ring - EDH staple, turn one mana ramp gets you started quick which is a huge advantage.
Creatures
Acidic Slime - Edible problem solver, you gon't have a lot of ways to deal with major problems in this deck so use it wisely
Anger - haste enabler, it does have to get into the graveyard to work and there are a couple of ways to make that happen like Birthing Pod, Mycoloth, and High market and hey all else failing, you could always eat him.
Avenger of Zendikar - Left alone this guy is a game winner all by himself, but lets not leave that to chance... He is an amazing token generator though
Brawn - Trample enabler, it does have to get into the graveyard to work and there are a couple of ways to make that happen like Birthing Pod, Mycoloth, Natural Order and High market and hey all else failing, you could always eat him.
Champion of Lambholt - This gall is absolutely vicious if you get her out before you really go to town with tokens, but be aware that she may draw unwanted attention so if you don't have the cards in hand for a relatively quick victory expect some hate coming your way.
Citanul Hierophants - Because copious amounts of mana is a really good thing!
Craterhoof Behemoth - Boss and game winner this guy is tutorable in our colors and if you get him out everyone pretty much just says gg.
Deranged Hermit - Excellent token production for the CMC. As a side note you should rarely if ever pay the echo cost, you want the squirrels not the druid.
Dragon Broodmother - Left unchecked she lays enough eggs to get overwhelming in a multiplayer game pretty darn quickly. As a side note you shouldn't use the token's devour ability very often excepting in cases that killing something of yours is valuable to you in other ways
Dragonlair Spider - This seems pretty unassuming at first... Until you have an army of spiders ready to crush your enemies!
Eternal Witness - Edible recursion. We don't have much in the way of recursion in the deck so use her wisely.
Hornet Queen - A little expensive I'll grant you, but instant token generation is a good thing, and it doesn't hurt that they fly and have death touch... Just in case you need to stall
Kessig Cagebreakers - Since we don't do much recurring this guy is in the deck to give us a way to utilize the creatures we have cast off or had wrathed away... He can be dead in your hand, but he is a house in the late game, when you need a comeback.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - We use a lot of instant token generators in this list, and Kiki lets us get more use out of them, making him extremely valuable. He also has an infinite combo with Zealous Conscripts
Master of the Wild Hunt - Fairly cheap and albeit a little slow he has the added value of letting us use our tokens for something while we are waiting for a kill combo.
Mycoloth - This guy is a little bit of a risk to use since if he gets targeted for removal before your upkeep he wastes your board, but man when he sticks it's pretty glorious. He espcially shines when you have some ProtectiveFootwear out.
Oracle of Mul Daya- One of my favorite ramp cards in the game since she also filters for card quality on the cheap. Oh and she's edible in a pinch.
Sakura-Tribe Elder - Ramp turn 2 is never bad, and if you don't need the land then you've got another body to add to the count for cheap.
Siege-Gang Commander - Great token producer, and has the added benefit of allowing us to use the goblins as cannon fodder if you really need it.
Solemn Simulacrum - Edible ramp and card draw all wrapped into one beautifully efficient package? Oh yeah sad robot is for dinner.
Urabrask the Hidden - Great haste enabler that hurts your opponents as well. The great thing about him is that he enables haste for token swarm strategy as well as general beat down.
Wood Elves - Edible ramp that lets you grab your nonbasic forests and bring them in untapped
Wort, the Raidmother - The highly efficient Wort makes tokens for us and has the extremely useful ability to give us copies of our instants and sorceries, YAY!!!!
Doubling Season - This is probably the most effective card in the deck, it really turns you into a powerhouse quickly if left on the battlefield, and it makes your planeswalkers come in with double loyalty counters as well.
Fecundity - Card advantage, it does help your opponents as well, but you will probably have the most creatures out so it will be to your advantage 90% of the time.
Mana Reflection - Double your mana, double your fun! (To the double mint theme song)
Pandemonium - This triggers off of Thromok entering in and generally kills an opponent outright, it does help your opponents as well so try not to play it until you are going to use it!
Vicious Shadows - This should trigger tons of times when it's time to devour your critters... Let that pesky blue mage feel your fury!!!
Warstorm Surge - This triggers off of Thromok entering in and generally kills an opponent outright.
Instants
Artifact Mutation - Helps deal with pesky artifacts and makes tokens at the same time!
Beast Within - One of our few removal spells so use it wisely!
Chaos Warp - This is really only meant to be used wen you desperately need to get rid of something... Or to tuck away a particularly problematic general.
Chord of Calling - Tutor up any creature you need at any given time... The true beauty of this spell lies in the fact that it's at instant speed, and the convoke means that in many cases we will be able to play it for free or almost nothing.
Fling - Pretty straightforward, pick up Thromok and throw him at the face of your most dangerous opponent!
Fresh Meat - This little gem is still in playtest mode but I am expecting big things, you can use it to rebuild your army after a board wipe, or just to combo kill two opponents in the same turn in conjunction with a Pandemonium effect.
Soul's Fire - Cast Thromok, use the power of the heart to burn your enemies to death... Just like Captain Planet!
Tears of rage - Can be used to turn your token swarm into a weapon of mass destruction and then you can even eat them in the second main phase!
Worldly Tutor - Pretty much a staple in green decks, go get any creature, you gotta love it.
Planeswalkers
Garruk, Primal Hunter - This guy can make you some beast tokens and even make a ton of wurm tokens if left unchecked or if you bring him out with Doubling Season in play... But he can also draw you cards if you are running out of gas which is usually what he gets used for.
Sarkhan Vol - pretty versatile card, he can enable haste for all your creatures, grab a problem creature to sacrafice, or if you bring him out with Doubling Season in play he can even make you a ton of dragon tokens!
Sorceries
Cultivate - Ramp and color fixing at the same time is fun!
Decimate - We don't have a ton of removal in the deck, but this one is too fun to pass up, the only downside is not being able to cast it if there aren't enough targets, but that should be a non-issue in most multiplayer games.
Fungal Sprouting - This is here to help you get to that point of having tokens out your ears, or it can also be used in conjunction with a Pandemonium effect after casting Thromok to kill off a second guy.
Genesis Wave - Come on... It breaks the game! Should only be cast with a X of 7 or higher if you can help it!
Green Sun's Zenith - Lets you grab any green creature you happen to need, and as a fun bonus it gets shuffled back in for possible reuse.
Natural Order - Sacrifice a token and get any green creature? Yes please!
Skyshroud Claim - lets you grab your nonbasic forest cards and bring them in untapped.
Wheel of Fortune - Gruul can run out of gas fast, and this will help you get the semi-truck running again!
High Market - This can help us save our creatures from exile effects and our general from tuck effects, and since we are running Anger and Brawn it doesn't hurt to have another way to get them into the graveyard.
Vesuva - Very versatile, becomes whatever you want it to!
Card Options
This is where we will go over options for your deck that I have not included in my build, things that could be used in a build similar to mine and things to change the dynamic of your deck to make it run a little differently.
Under Construction!
I plan on putting a lot of work into this section on 26 January 2013 if nothing crazy comes up!
BIO
My name is Daniel, I am 27 years old and I am in the Air Force. I started playing magic a little over three years ago, when my brother got me to try the game out. He got me started on some 60 card constructed decks that we played around with for a while. Then after I started to show interest he gave me a box of older bulk commons and uncommons to play around with and try to build decks with... And that was the moment I got hooked. I was fascinated with the way you could build decks around interactions. After about three months of that he introduced me to the world of EDH/Commander and my love affair with the format began instantly. Ever since I have spent silly amounts of time on the game either playing or building decks utilizing Cockatrice to build and playtest decks to find out what I liked to play. I currently have 5 EDH decks built IRL and I am working on amassing the cards for a sixth. I know that I haven't been playing long in magic terms, but I have spent a ridiculous amount of my time playing, testing, and tuning decks and this general in particular.
Have you considered Greater Good and Zealous Conscripts? Conscripts can steal a creature that can be easily sacked, especially if Greater Good is out as well.
Have you considered Greater Good and Zealous Conscripts? Conscripts can steal a creature that can be easily sacked, especially if Greater Good is out as well.
My original list had Greater Good in it but I ended up taking it out before it got any party time... It's an amazing card I just didn't feel it was amazing in this deck because of my lack of recycling, and that mostly I'll have small tokens out... It may find it's way back in though for a playtest, thanks
As for the conscripts I kinda hate them... I just feel like they are too expensive, maybe I am wrong, but until I see the light I think they will stay off... Although, I will keep them in mind.
I too have a Thromklok, the Mathematician deck. He's fun ain't he?
I would replace Fauna Shaman with a Defense of the Heart. If Fauna Shaman isn't being as awesome as you want then a one-shot awesome enchantment should be a good replacement. When it goes off you could grab Avenger of Zendikar and Dragonlair Spider! Quite a token production you'll have. Experiment to find your best Dynamic Duo.
Some things that make me giggle in my deck: Sheltering Word : "I'll kill Thromok." "Hexproof and Gain X Life where X is his toughness?" Hamletback Goliath: If he's out when Thromok comes a-munchin' he'll get big just by a-watchin'.
Just some cards I wouldn't add immediately but would definitely experiment with: Zealous Conscripts: He's been mentioned, and he's awesome. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: Creatures that generate tokens love him. Copy Avenger every turn and make more tokens. Also he goes infinite with Zealous Conscripts. Utvara Dragon: If you can get him out he creates big tokens. This is probably my worst suggestion, but hey he could be fun!
Sheltering Word: "I'll kill Thromok." "Hexproof and Gain X Life where X is his toughness?"
Hamletback Goliath: If he's out when Thromok comes a-munchin' he'll get big just by a-watchin'.
I really like these two suggestions. I'd stay away from the Kiki-Jiki + Conscripts combo tho (unless you're in a tourny), it really feels cheap to win that way.
I made a Thromok deck a while back, it's a blast to play him due to the look on peoples faces when I say "Okay, I summon Mokky. Then Stalking Vengeance kills player A, Warstorm Surge/Pandemonium kill player B, and then I Fling him at player C." Is good times.
I never even thought to put Hamletback Goliath in the deck as an alt wincon! That seems perfect for setting up a strong Feed the Pack in case Mokky gets blasted before he can do his magic, have the Giant out and save him in reserve to pop for puppies. Damn, Mokky is a fun General.
Wow, great feedback guys, thank you! In short I'm going to add in Zealous Conscripts, Springjack Pasture, Feed the Pack, and Sheltering Word... But, let me address each of you individually. (Also I'll update the list after this post.) EDIT: I just Realized that Feed the Pack doesn't go off until the end of the turn... Sorry guys, too slow for me for the cost... getting the axe.... I guess old Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker will get his turn... I'll just have to try to resist temptation.. He's soooo good lol
Also Springjack Pasture for more recursive token production in a land slot.
While I like Bloodshot Cyclops well enough, I have to disagree that it "beats" Fling as I just think the cyclops has too high of a CMC... I have thought about running him before but the effect isn't worth the purse to me...
I'm not 100% sold on Feed the Pack for the same reason.. The cost, but I can see the value there and I think it might get some playtest time.
As for Fungal Sprouting, it's a recent addition to the deck and is still in testing mode... It's been dead in my hand before, but it has also won me games so it's staying in for now
And I forgot about the old Springjack Pasture, it's definitely getting slipped in, thanks.
I too have a Thromklok, the Mathematician deck. He's fun ain't he?
I would replace Fauna Shaman with a Defense of the Heart. If Fauna Shaman isn't being as awesome as you want then a one-shot awesome enchantment should be a good replacement. When it goes off you could grab Avenger of Zendikar and Dragonlair Spider! Quite a token production you'll have. Experiment to find your best Dynamic Duo.
Some things that make me giggle in my deck: Sheltering Word : "I'll kill Thromok." "Hexproof and Gain X Life where X is his toughness?" Hamletback Goliath: If he's out when Thromok comes a-munchin' he'll get big just by a-watchin'.
Just some cards I wouldn't add immediately but would definitely experiment with: Zealous Conscripts: He's been mentioned, and he's awesome. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: Creatures that generate tokens love him. Copy Avenger every turn and make more tokens. Also he goes infinite with Zealous Conscripts. Utvara Dragon: If you can get him out he creates big tokens. This is probably my worst suggestion, but hey he could be fun!
I think Defense of the Heart is on my maybe list, I have it in a few other decks and it rarely goes off, as it gets removed before it gets the chance, but I'll keep it in mind.
Sheltering Word is an interesting idea though and I think that I'll try to get this one in the mix.
Hamletback Goliath hmmm, I feel like this guy will more often than not end up in the "win more" category, and while I like that as much as the next guy, I want to go more smoothly and attract a little less attention than this guy will get me... Let me know if I am wrong and he is essential.
Zealous Conscripts Like you said he's been mentioned before, and the fact that you brought him up again makes me wonder if maybe I'm misjudging this one, I will slip it in for a playtest.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, I think I will stay away from this guy, I won't undervalue him... But the temptation to infinite combo with him will be to great for me to withstand and that's not what I'm going for in this deck.
I really like these two suggestions. I'd stay away from the Kiki-Jiki + Conscripts combo tho (unless you're in a tourny), it really feels cheap to win that way.
I have to agree... I run some infinites in some of my other decks... But as I stated above, it's just not where I want to be with this one.
I made a Thromok deck a while back, it's a blast to play him due to the look on peoples faces when I say "Okay, I summon Mokky. Then Stalking Vengeance kills player A, Warstorm Surge/Pandemonium kill player B, and then I Fling him at player C." Is good times.
I never even thought to put Hamletback Goliath in the deck as an alt wincon! That seems perfect for setting up a strong Feed the Pack in case Mokky gets blasted before he can do his magic, have the Giant out and save him in reserve to pop for puppies. Damn, Mokky is a fun General.
Any unblockable/haste cards so you can bring in mok saccing 5 creatures for a 25/25 commander, then instant kill someone, Whispersilk cloak for example.
Also regarding Bakura's post above, it is Utvara Hellkite, though it has an 8cmc and needs to attack first.
Those are all I can think of at the moment, hope it helps.
Also regarding Bakura's post above, it is Utvara Hellkite, though it has an 8cmc and needs to attack first.
Yes, thank you for that. I call it Utvara Dragon, so naturally that's how I typed it.
It's not something I'm saying should go in. However playing a game yesterday it did spark a comeba... nevermind it was 1v1 and that accounts for nothing here.
Any unblockable/haste cards so you can bring in mok saccing 5 creatures for a 25/25 commander, then instant kill someone, Whispersilk cloak for example.
Also regarding Bakura's post above, it is Utvara Hellkite, though it has an 8cmc and needs to attack first.
Those are all I can think of at the moment, hope it helps.
*poke* sorry, I've got more questions... I'm working on my own Thromok list and I've stumbled across a few issues. First, how has Skullclamp worked out for you? I've drawn it in 3 different games (early game every time) and never wanted to use it. I've found that I really want to save my tokens for a Thromok snack vs drawing more cards early. I guess late game it could be good in multi-player (i've only been playing 1v1 so far).
Also, have you had much experience 1v1 with him? I've been playing 1v1 with the standard ban list and 30 life and this deck is a bit clunky. I know you built it for MP so this question is mostly moot. I've still had fairly good luck with a record of 4-5 but I feel like I can't focus on my bigger spells in the time it takes to win or lose.
Next, how's your luck been with Kodama's Reach and Cultivate? Do you think that you might be better off with some creatures that can fetch lands and then get fed to ur general? I swapped them out for Farhaven Elf and Wood Elves and have had decent results so far.
Next suggestion: Is there any reasoning behind not including Genesis in your list? The recursion seems good. Ok, i'm sure I'll think of more later, but that's it for now...
Ok, well looks like I have been a little lazy lately on this thread, sorry guys let me get a response in here. And let me say in advance that if my reasons for not including a card on the list don't make sense to you that's totally fine, there are only 100 slots though and I can't put in everything!
Any unblockable/haste cards so you can bring in mok saccing 5 creatures for a 25/25 commander, then instant kill someone, Whispersilk cloak for example.
Also regarding Bakura's post above, it is Utvara Hellkite, though it has an 8cmc and needs to attack first.
Those are all I can think of at the moment, hope it helps.
Wow thanks for all that in advance, and as for the 99 cards I accidently left out Copperline Gorge, I corrected the OP, good catch.
Eldrazi Monument:Might switch this in for something for a playtest, to be honest I really haven't found myself in need of a lot of wrath protection in the deck because i can generally just start over and get going just as strong, and I'm not sure if I wouldn't rather just have another token generator in the place of this... It feels like it goes against the deck's nature to be on the defensive as well. Also this card draws attention that I just don't want.
NullMage Shepherd: while I like the idea of her, she doesn't fit with what my deck wants... Thromok doesn't care about your crap he just wants you dead.
Fresh Meat: This is actually a little more my speed when it comes to wrath protection, since I can use it as a combo piece with Pandemonium effects as well, I actually think I will use this instead of the Eldrazi Monument
Momentous Fall: This was actually on my original list, and it seems good, but it got playtested out, to be honest if you are playing Mokkie and not winning that turn, then you are probably doing it wrong.
Rouge's Passage: Daddy likey, yeah that is getting switched in for something for sure, thanks.
Fire's of Yavimaya: Like you said, I already have haste effects coming out my ears and I don't think I need another one.
Goblin Bombardment: I'm on the edge with this one, it feels right but it is a little too small scale for my liking, I think I'm already rocking better options.
Insurrection: There aren't many times I say no to this lady, but this deck wants synergy, and while the thought of taking everything and sacrificing it all to my general is nice, I doubt it would ever happen that way.
Hull Breach: Like I said before this deck doesn't want to deal with your crap, it wants you to try to deal with it... even in multiplayer I've yet to wish I had more answers because I can usually combo a win instead.
Chancellor of the Forge: Yeah he's fancy, but he's kinda useless unless I already have tokens out, I feel like e's to expensive for his effect.
Whispersilk Cloak: I honestly rarely even need to swing with Mokkie, I generally use him as a combo piece instead, also there are a couple of cards that need him targetable to work this might get rotated in at some point, but for now it's hitting the benches.
Utvara Hellkite: Man this is so cool that it hurts me to not put it in, but it's just too slow for the cost, and to be honest, I don't really need 6/6 tokens, just a lot of little ones.
Mage Slayer: I don't know why this is so much more appealing to me than whispersilk since it's basically less for more cost but the flavor is perfect for the deck and it does let me target the general if i need to. This might actually see play.
Surestrike Trident: I actually really like this card and I run it in a poison deck I have built, but I just think that it's a little clunky here.
The name of the game for this deck is speed, I want tokens fast Master of the Wild Hunt is a great card but I opted out purely for speed reasons however I am looking to replace Skullmulcher as he has proven mediocre and I'll keep the hunter in mind. Nemata, Grove Guardian is kinda in the same boat nine mana for two creatures? meh. Sprout Swarm never got in because to be honest I just don't like the card, it's only good if I already have four tokens out and then I'd rather not waste a spot in my deck for this. Verdeloth the Ancient has the same problems going for him, I need copious ammounts of mana to make hime work, which means that I need to have the cradle online already for him to be really useful and honestly at that point he is just win more since the anthem effect is kinda negligible. Beastmaster Ascension has been great in the deck, honestly I rarely eat tokens unless A: it wins me the game or B: it gets me even more tokens... You can never have too many aces.
*poke* sorry, I've got more questions... I'm working on my own Thromok list and I've stumbled across a few issues. First, how has Skullclamp worked out for you? I've drawn it in 3 different games (early game every time) and never wanted to use it. I've found that I really want to save my tokens for a Thromok snack vs drawing more cards early. I guess late game it could be good in multi-player (i've only been playing 1v1 so far).
Also, have you had much experience 1v1 with him? I've been playing 1v1 with the standard ban list and 30 life and this deck is a bit clunky. I know you built it for MP so this question is mostly moot. I've still had fairly good luck with a record of 4-5 but I feel like I can't focus on my bigger spells in the time it takes to win or lose.
Next, how's your luck been with Kodama's Reach and Cultivate? Do you think that you might be better off with some creatures that can fetch lands and then get fed to ur general? I swapped them out for Farhaven Elf and Wood Elves and have had decent results so far.
Next suggestion: Is there any reasoning behind not including Genesis in your list? The recursion seems good. Ok, i'm sure I'll think of more later, but that's it for now...
Skullclamp is fantastic in the mid to late game when you are digging for a combo piece to finish off your opponents or even if you run out of gas quickly in the early game, I wouldn't dream of taking it out, not even for 1 vs 1
You play with the ban list for standard? That seems silly... And why would you use 30 life? doesn't that kinda negate the whole point of EDH? Meta choices aside, I have played many games 1 vs. 1 with it and done just fine, although not as well as in multi... The best thing about this deck is it's ability to look reletively harmless... Until you win out of nowhere, and that is negated by playing heads up since you have your opponents complete attention. In heads up just race as fast as you can headlong into a combo, your only chance is to win before your opponent smashes through your lines.
The mana fixers I actually really like having them in there, nothing does the job as effectively as them, although the appeal of having another creature sure is nice, I might switch one out for Farhaven Elf, as for Wood Elves it's already on the list. My reasoning for not including Genesis on the list is purely motivated by speed, It's too mana intensive for me, both to cast and to activate you never know when you might need that 2G for that spell you are going to draw this turn.
What does everyone think of Goblin Rally? I was thinking of switching out Verdant Embrace for it, since it's the same mana cost and it can guarantee me tokens a lot faster, albeit with less potential for greatness.
*poke* sorry, I've got more questions... I'm working on my own Thromok list and I've stumbled across a few issues. First, how has Skullclamp worked out for you? I've drawn it in 3 different games (early game every time) and never wanted to use it. I've found that I really want to save my tokens for a Thromok snack vs drawing more cards early. I guess late game it could be good in multi-player (i've only been playing 1v1 so far).
I just added a Skullclamp to my deck a little bit ago. I felt almost the same way before adding it. Don't sacrifice Thromok's food, he needs it. Though with Skullclamp you can draw more token production and make up for it. At least that's what I think.
Also might I recommend a combo I just put into my deck for fun. It's an Infinite Noms combo just a heads up. It's also a bit demanding I'm just running it to have some fun. Parallel Lives/Doubling Season + Ornithopter/Memnite + Prototype Portal/Soul Foundry + Clock of Omens.
So the less threatening way is using Ornithopter's since they are 0/2s and probably can't kill everyone the next turn after going infinite also they are infinite flying defense on the next turn!
I think Soul Foundry could be a nice addition anyway. Slap one of your token-generators-that's-a-creature on it and get to work pumping them out.
I just added a Skullclamp to my deck a little bit ago. I felt almost the same way before adding it. Don't sacrifice Thromok's food, he needs it. Though with Skullclamp you can draw more token production and make up for it. At least that's what I think.
Also might I recommend a combo I just put into my deck for fun. It's an Infinite Noms combo just a heads up. It's also a bit demanding I'm just running it to have some fun. Parallel Lives/Doubling Season + Ornithopter/Memnite + Prototype Portal/Soul Foundry + Clock of Omens.
So the less threatening way is using Ornithopter's since they are 0/2s and probably can't kill everyone the next turn after going infinite also they are infinite flying defense on the next turn!
I think Soul Foundry could be a nice addition anyway. Slap one of your token-generators-that's-a-creature on it and get to work pumping them out.
While I think that for my particular list and style that's a tough combo to assemble without a way to tutor it up, but it sure sounds like fun! Let me know how Soul Foundry works out for you, it seems a little slow, but might be a viable replacement for Mimic Vat if you have success with it I'll probably give it a spin as well.
While I think that for my particular list and style that's a tough combo to assemble without a way to tutor it up, but it sure sounds like fun! Let me know how Soul Foundry works out for you, it seems a little slow, but might be a viable replacement for Mimic Vat if you have success with it I'll probably give it a spin as well.
Alright will do. Gonna be playing him a little more often since I added a bunch of new stuff to my deck.
how has fresh meat been working for you? I've recently built a Thromok deck and decided against it. It just seems far too situational.
Have you had any trouble with decks that have a lot of flying? I lose to my friends Rakdos deck every time, so i added gravity well. It seems like you would suffer the same as me without it.
how has fresh meat been working for you? I've recently built a Thromok deck and decided against it. It just seems far too situational.
Have you had any trouble with decks that have a lot of flying? I lose to my friends Rakdos deck every time, so i added gravity well. It seems like you would suffer the same as me without it.
To be honest, Fresh Meat just recently got added in and I've yet to draw it but I'll post my complete thoughts on it after it gets more playtime... But it's actually in the deck more as a combo piece than wrath protection... Think of it this way Pandemonium + Thromok + Fresh Meat = Multi kill.
I haven't had any problem with flying decks at the moment, I usually don't pose enough of a threat to warrant their full attention until it's too late... But this is a multiplayer list... Also if your meta is heavy on the flyers and you find it to be a problem then it's a great idea to add in these effects.
As far as Kazandu Tuskcaller, it is a little underwhelming to me, not terrible by any means, but you need to invest six mana to get it online and fourteen total to get it to be really useful. It just seems like a lot, but being able to cast it turn two could offset that a bit I suppose... Have you found it to be exceptional?
Nice to see I'm not the only one rocking a Thromok deck. Completely forgot about Fecundity and I guess I'll try out Vicious Shadows next time I head to my LGS since this is the fourth or fifth deck I've seen with it (I just can't get over paying 6R for an enchantment).
I know you mentioned not wanting to go off with Kiki-Jiki combos, but what about adding Sekki, Season's Guide as a combo piece to go with your Warstorm Surge/Pandemonium? I've been running it (and no tutors for it) in my Thromok deck and like how it can randomly come out of nowhere and win games for me - much as the rest of my deck is designed to do.
The combo basically works like this: 1) Have Warstorm Surge or Pandemonium out in play, 2) Cast Sekki, Season's Guide, 3) Use Sekki's trigger off surge/pandemonium to target itself, 4) Sekki dies and poops out 8 spirit tokens, 5) Target your opponents with the spirit token triggers, 6) Sacrifice 8 spirits to bring back Sekki, 7) Rinse/repeat until everyone else is dead.
It's different, fits with Thromoks theme of making creatures to feed him, and assuming you don't go digging for the combo constantly, it's kinda funny the first few times it goes off since nobody really expects it.
I guess I'll try out Vicious Shadows next time I head to my LGS since this is the fourth or fifth deck I've seen with it (I just can't get over paying 6R for an enchantment).
Trust me when I say that Vicious Shadows is worth it. Yes it is expensive, but when it goes off it doles out silly amounts of damage!
I know you mentioned not wanting to go off with Kiki-Jiki combos, but what about adding Sekki, Season's Guide as a combo piece to go with your Warstorm Surge/Pandemonium? I've been running it (and no tutors for it) in my Thromok deck and like how it can randomly come out of nowhere and win games for me - much as the rest of my deck is designed to do.
It's different, fits with Thromoks theme of making creatures to feed him, and assuming you don't go digging for the combo constantly, it's kinda funny the first few times it goes off since nobody really expects it.
I actually think that this is a fantastic idea, thank you for bringing it up! What I really like about it is that the card is really on theme and can be useful to me even if I don't combo out with it! Although it is really expensive, it might not be a bad thing to have around as a last ditch effort to take out a really annoying player. I think that for now it's going to sub in for Verdant Embrace which I have been looking for a replacement for anyway.
Oh and one more suggestion: Warp World. Considering how many tokens you can potentially pump out, Warp World usually screws everyone else over and gives you an edge by resetting the board. I've had games where I cast Warp World with 20+ permanents (mostly tokens) on the board and managed to kill the board due to Siege-Gang Commander, Deranged Hermit, Craterhoof Behemoth, and a bunch of random dorks flipping over with an Anger in my 'yard (I then cast Overrun with the lands that flipped). That doesn't happen often, but it's funny as hell when it does.
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The belly is an ungrateful wretch, it never remembers past favors, it always wants more tomorrow" - Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
History
Well when I first saw old Fluffy spoiled I knew that I wanted to build him, I envisioned sacrificing all my creatures and smashing through my opponents defenses for copious ammounts of general damage! When I actually sat down to build the deck I started to get the idea that smashing through might not always be viable, and it can be a fragile and easily disruptable strategy. So I added in some Fling effects to get me some alternate win conditions, and from there the deck started to evolve into a token swarm direct damage combo deck that is constantly evolving to this day.
Your main goal in this deck revolves around getting out tokens and using those in several different ways to outright kill your opponent. You want to do your best to look unassuming and only midline dangerous so that your opponents will focus their energy controlling the more overt players at the table. In the beginning you should be focusing on trying to ramp up as fast as possible with cards like Sol Ring, Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Oracle of Mul Daya, Solemn Simulacrum, and Awakening Zone (Which makes tokens too). After you are ramped or while you are ramping get those tokens out there! Mid game you if you can get Mana Reflection or Gaea's Cradel online it really helps. Also get those enablers out there in the mid game Parallel Lives, and Doubling Season really go a long way in giving you enough tokens to really deliver some devistating amounts of damage, and creature tutors like Birthing Pod, Chord of Calling, Worldly Tutor, Green Sun's Zenith, and Natural Order can help you get the token producers you need into play. In the endgame (which can come pretty quick) when you have enough tokens out if you are not holding a way to end the game Skullclamp can really help you draw into a winner. When you are ready to make a kill move you have a few options available which can all be used either alone or in combination with eachother. First up is overwhelming force If you have any creature tutors available, you can try to get Craterhoof Behemoth into play. Champion of Lambholt also works great here if you got her out earlier. Other cards that enable this kind of win are Beastmaster Ascension which you don't want to drop until you are ready to swing for the win, and Tears of Rage this seems like a high risk card but the upside of it is that you don't sacrifice the creatures until the end of your turn, so you can still eat them in the second main phase. You second option is to go for a direct damage combo. Cards that work for this kind of win are Pandemonium, and Warstorm Surge which work with Thromok when you devour the tokens and he comes in big they deal damage equal to his power to target opponent. you can also use Vicious Shadows for a similar/opposite effect, the massive ammounts of triggers you can get by devouring with Thromok will usually kill at least one opponent outright. Your two other cards that deal damage are Fling, and Soul's Fire. The latter of which is nice because you don't have to sacrifice Thromok by using it which will allow you swing afterwards. You last way of closing the deal is the massive general damage swing, and while this seems like fun, it should be used as a last resort as it's the most easily stoppable technique. You have a few cards in here which will let enable haste for Thromok so you can swing immediatly for the kill since you always want to explode, never wait a turn to attack if you can help it! You haste enablers are Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot boots, Anger, Urabrask the Hidden, Hall of the Bandit Lord, and Sarkhan Vol. The other thing you need when going for the swing strategy is a way to ensure you connect, there are a few ways in the deck to make this happen like Brawn, Kessig Wolfrun, and Rouge's Passage. Aside from that there is also a potential infinite combo victory which is the Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Zealous Conscripts infinite creature combo, and that's about it, have fun and happy casting!
5 Thromok the Insatiable
Artifacts
4 Birthing Pod
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Mimic Vat
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
Creatures
5 Acidic Slime
4 Anger
7 Avenger of Zendikar
4 Beetleback Chief
4 Brawn
3 Champion of Lambholt
4 Citanul Hierophants
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
5 Deranged Hermit
6 Dragon Broodmother
6 Dragonlair Spider
3 Eternal Witness
3 Farhaven Elf
3 Fierce Empath
5 Genesis
7 Hornet Queen
5 Kessig Cagebreakers
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Master of the Wild Hunt
5 Mycoloth
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
5 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Urabrask the Hidden
3 Wood Elves
6 Wort, the Raidmother
5 Zealous Conscripts
3 Awakening Zone
3 Beastmaster Ascension
5 Doubling Season
3 Fecundity
6 Mana Reflection
4 Pandemonium
4 Parallel Lives
4 Sneak Attack
7 Vicious Shadows
6 Warstorm Surge
Instants
2 Artifact Mutation
3 Beast Within
3 Chaos Warp
3 Chord of Calling
2 Fling
4 Fresh Meat
3 Soul's Fire
4 Tears of rage
1 Worldly Tutor
Land
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
7 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Khalni Garden
1 Kher Keep
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mosswort Bridge
6 Mountain
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Rouge's Passage
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Stomping Ground
1 Strip Mine
1 Taiga
1 Vesuva
5 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Sarkhan Vol
Sorcery
3 Cultivate
4 Decimate
4 Fungal Sprouting
3 Genesis Wave
1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
4 Skyshroud Claim
3 Wheel of Fortune
Card Explanation
Here I will go through the reasons for picking each card on the current list, this will be updated with current information as the deck evolves. I'm wrapping this in a spoiler to save space. Some redundancy in information will occur from the strategy section but hey you wanted to know right?
Birthing Pod - This can be used throughout the game to sacrifice creatures and bring out more token producers to really get a massive army out there, it can even enable a win if you grab Craterhoof Behemoth if you have Hornet Queen, or Avenger of Zendikar out already.
Lightning Greaves- Has the duel purpose of protecting and giving haste to your creatures... Especially Thromok
Mimic Vat - Since we don't have a lot of recursion in the deck but we also like to eat our creatures this lets us reuse our token generators, especially the ones that produce tokens when they ETB.
Sensei's Divining Top - EDH staple, helps with card quality, getting you what you need when you need it.
Skullclamp - Being in Gruul kinda makes us pron to running out of gas, this gem lets us go crazy on the draw by killing off our tokens with it to refill our hand or dig for a wincon late game.
Sol Ring - EDH staple, turn one mana ramp gets you started quick which is a huge advantage.
Acidic Slime - Edible problem solver, you gon't have a lot of ways to deal with major problems in this deck so use it wisely
Anger - haste enabler, it does have to get into the graveyard to work and there are a couple of ways to make that happen like Birthing Pod, Mycoloth, and High market and hey all else failing, you could always eat him.
Avenger of Zendikar - Left alone this guy is a game winner all by himself, but lets not leave that to chance... He is an amazing token generator though
Beetleback Chief - Efficient token generation early game
Brawn - Trample enabler, it does have to get into the graveyard to work and there are a couple of ways to make that happen like Birthing Pod, Mycoloth, Natural Order and High market and hey all else failing, you could always eat him.
Champion of Lambholt - This gall is absolutely vicious if you get her out before you really go to town with tokens, but be aware that she may draw unwanted attention so if you don't have the cards in hand for a relatively quick victory expect some hate coming your way.
Citanul Hierophants - Because copious amounts of mana is a really good thing!
Craterhoof Behemoth - Boss and game winner this guy is tutorable in our colors and if you get him out everyone pretty much just says gg.
Deranged Hermit - Excellent token production for the CMC. As a side note you should rarely if ever pay the echo cost, you want the squirrels not the druid.
Dragon Broodmother - Left unchecked she lays enough eggs to get overwhelming in a multiplayer game pretty darn quickly. As a side note you shouldn't use the token's devour ability very often excepting in cases that killing something of yours is valuable to you in other ways
Dragonlair Spider - This seems pretty unassuming at first... Until you have an army of spiders ready to crush your enemies!
Eternal Witness - Edible recursion. We don't have much in the way of recursion in the deck so use her wisely.
Farhaven Elf - Edible ramp!!!
Fierce Empath - An edible tutor that gets me all my powerhouse token producers and Craterhoof Behemoth? Yes please.
Genesis This guy brings an element of recursion to the deck that we really need, especially if you are running Survival of the fittest and Sneak Attack
Hornet Queen - A little expensive I'll grant you, but instant token generation is a good thing, and it doesn't hurt that they fly and have death touch... Just in case you need to stall
Kessig Cagebreakers - Since we don't do much recurring this guy is in the deck to give us a way to utilize the creatures we have cast off or had wrathed away... He can be dead in your hand, but he is a house in the late game, when you need a comeback.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - We use a lot of instant token generators in this list, and Kiki lets us get more use out of them, making him extremely valuable. He also has an infinite combo with Zealous Conscripts
Master of the Wild Hunt - Fairly cheap and albeit a little slow he has the added value of letting us use our tokens for something while we are waiting for a kill combo.
Mycoloth - This guy is a little bit of a risk to use since if he gets targeted for removal before your upkeep he wastes your board, but man when he sticks it's pretty glorious. He espcially shines when you have some Protective Footwear out.
Oracle of Mul Daya- One of my favorite ramp cards in the game since she also filters for card quality on the cheap. Oh and she's edible in a pinch.
Sakura-Tribe Elder - Ramp turn 2 is never bad, and if you don't need the land then you've got another body to add to the count for cheap.
Siege-Gang Commander - Great token producer, and has the added benefit of allowing us to use the goblins as cannon fodder if you really need it.
Solemn Simulacrum - Edible ramp and card draw all wrapped into one beautifully efficient package? Oh yeah sad robot is for dinner.
Urabrask the Hidden - Great haste enabler that hurts your opponents as well. The great thing about him is that he enables haste for token swarm strategy as well as general beat down.
Wood Elves - Edible ramp that lets you grab your nonbasic forests and bring them in untapped
Wort, the Raidmother - The highly efficient Wort makes tokens for us and has the extremely useful ability to give us copies of our instants and sorceries, YAY!!!!
Zealous Conscripts - Lets us grab an opponent's creature to devour and it also combos out with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Awakening Zone - Early token producer and mana ramp all rapped into one, I really like the versatility this gives you.
Beastmaster Ascension - There to drop for a last second token army of death!
Doubling Season - This is probably the most effective card in the deck, it really turns you into a powerhouse quickly if left on the battlefield, and it makes your planeswalkers come in with double loyalty counters as well.
Fecundity - Card advantage, it does help your opponents as well, but you will probably have the most creatures out so it will be to your advantage 90% of the time.
Mana Reflection - Double your mana, double your fun! (To the double mint theme song)
Pandemonium - This triggers off of Thromok entering in and generally kills an opponent outright, it does help your opponents as well so try not to play it until you are going to use it!
Parallel Lives - Double tokens heck yeah!
Sneak Attack - This is a great way to power out your etb token generators explosively and also to get Anger, Brawn, and Genesis in your graveyard!
Survival of the Fittest - A great toolbox card and also a great way to get Anger, Brawn, and Genesis in your graveyard!
Vicious Shadows - This should trigger tons of times when it's time to devour your critters... Let that pesky blue mage feel your fury!!!
Warstorm Surge - This triggers off of Thromok entering in and generally kills an opponent outright.
Artifact Mutation - Helps deal with pesky artifacts and makes tokens at the same time!
Beast Within - One of our few removal spells so use it wisely!
Chaos Warp - This is really only meant to be used wen you desperately need to get rid of something... Or to tuck away a particularly problematic general.
Chord of Calling - Tutor up any creature you need at any given time... The true beauty of this spell lies in the fact that it's at instant speed, and the convoke means that in many cases we will be able to play it for free or almost nothing.
Fling - Pretty straightforward, pick up Thromok and throw him at the face of your most dangerous opponent!
Fresh Meat - This little gem is still in playtest mode but I am expecting big things, you can use it to rebuild your army after a board wipe, or just to combo kill two opponents in the same turn in conjunction with a Pandemonium effect.
Soul's Fire - Cast Thromok, use the power of the heart to burn your enemies to death... Just like Captain Planet!
Tears of rage - Can be used to turn your token swarm into a weapon of mass destruction and then you can even eat them in the second main phase!
Worldly Tutor - Pretty much a staple in green decks, go get any creature, you gotta love it.
Garruk, Primal Hunter - This guy can make you some beast tokens and even make a ton of wurm tokens if left unchecked or if you bring him out with Doubling Season in play... But he can also draw you cards if you are running out of gas which is usually what he gets used for.
Sarkhan Vol - pretty versatile card, he can enable haste for all your creatures, grab a problem creature to sacrafice, or if you bring him out with Doubling Season in play he can even make you a ton of dragon tokens!
Cultivate - Ramp and color fixing at the same time is fun!
Decimate - We don't have a ton of removal in the deck, but this one is too fun to pass up, the only downside is not being able to cast it if there aren't enough targets, but that should be a non-issue in most multiplayer games.
Fungal Sprouting - This is here to help you get to that point of having tokens out your ears, or it can also be used in conjunction with a Pandemonium effect after casting Thromok to kill off a second guy.
Genesis Wave - Come on... It breaks the game! Should only be cast with a X of 7 or higher if you can help it!
Green Sun's Zenith - Lets you grab any green creature you happen to need, and as a fun bonus it gets shuffled back in for possible reuse.
Natural Order - Sacrifice a token and get any green creature? Yes please!
Skyshroud Claim - lets you grab your nonbasic forest cards and bring them in untapped.
Wheel of Fortune - Gruul can run out of gas fast, and this will help you get the semi-truck running again!
Cavern of Souls - Can be used to make Thromok immune to counter spells!
Command Tower - Color fixing
Copperline Gorge - Color fixing
Fire-Lit Thicket -Color fixing
Gaea's Cradle - This goes absolutely nuts when you have some tokens out there... If you can afford it, get one.
Hall of the Bandit Lord - Haste enabling land, the 3 life is well worth the ability.
High Market - This can help us save our creatures from exile effects and our general from tuck effects, and since we are running Anger and Brawn it doesn't hurt to have another way to get them into the graveyard.
Homeward Path - This will help protect us against Mind Control effects and can even stop Insurrection dead in it's tracks.
Karplusan Forest - Color fixing... Even if it does hurt you.
Kessig Wolf Run - Trample enabler with the gravy of extra damage if we need it.
Khalni Garden - A land that gives us a token? Perfect.
Kher Keep - Token producer for when you need a mana sink.
Maze of Ith - Sometimes you gotta stop the guys they turn sideways!
Mosswort Bridge - Card advantage on a land, and the 10 power is pretty easy to obtain in this deck.
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood - If we are making tokens we might as well pump them a little in the beginning right?
Rouge's Passage - Makes Thromok unblockable!
Springjack Pasture - Token producer when you need a mana sink
Stomping Ground - Color fixing
Strip Mine - Get rid of those problem lands.
Taiga - Color fixing
Vesuva - Very versatile, becomes whatever you want it to!
This is where we will go over options for your deck that I have not included in my build, things that could be used in a build similar to mine and things to change the dynamic of your deck to make it run a little differently.
Under Construction!
I plan on putting a lot of work into this section on 26 January 2013 if nothing crazy comes up!
BIO
The Maybe Chopping Block Section
Changelog!
21 December 2012 (The end of the world)
-Helm of Kaldra(Too expensive), Fauna Shaman(Lack of recursion),Wolfbriar Elemental(G Kicker made it mediocre), Imperious Perfect(A little slow), and 1 Forest(1 for 1 land swap)
+Lightning Greaves(Needed more protection/haste), Sheltering Word(Shenanigans), Zealous Conscripts(Grabbing treats to eat), Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker(More tokens + combo), and Springjack Pasture(tokens silly)
17 January 2013
- Skullmulcher(Never seemed to want him/expensive) + Master of the Wild Hunt(playtesting)
- Sheltering Word(dead in hand) + Fresh Meat(playtest wrath protection + shenanigans)
- Reliquary Tower(mostly not needed) + Rouge's Passage(Unblockability is fun)
- Kodama's Reach(swapped for edible version) + Farhaven Elf(edible ramp)
21 January 2013
- Verdant Embrace(Been Mediocre/slow) + Sekki, Seasons' Guide(Combo Piece/Token Producer)
23 January 2013
- Sekki, Seasons' Guide(Because I felt dirty) + Citanul Hierophants(For mana!)
- Soul's Majesty(Not good when you need it) + Wheel of fortune(Better hand refill)
- Swiftfoot Boots(dropping the redundancy) + Survival of the Fittest(Needed more toolbox)
- Ant Queen(This was hard but she's a little slow) + Genesis(Much needed recursion)
- Chain Reaction(Sweeping is almost never what we want) + Sneak Attack(trying it out to get stuff out faster)
Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired.
Those who might never meet are pooled together
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon, the Destroyer of Darksteel
BGW Teneb, the Harvester, my Pimped Out Reanimator
GUB The Mimeoplasm Ooze-Mill
GWU Rafiq the Exalted
Have all of them.
Join us on Cardgame Coalition!
My original list had Greater Good in it but I ended up taking it out before it got any party time... It's an amazing card I just didn't feel it was amazing in this deck because of my lack of recycling, and that mostly I'll have small tokens out... It may find it's way back in though for a playtest, thanks
As for the conscripts I kinda hate them... I just feel like they are too expensive, maybe I am wrong, but until I see the light I think they will stay off... Although, I will keep them in mind.
Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired.
Those who might never meet are pooled together
I too have a Thromklok, the Mathematician deck. He's fun ain't he?
I would replace Fauna Shaman with a Defense of the Heart. If Fauna Shaman isn't being as awesome as you want then a one-shot awesome enchantment should be a good replacement. When it goes off you could grab Avenger of Zendikar and Dragonlair Spider! Quite a token production you'll have. Experiment to find your best Dynamic Duo.
Some things that make me giggle in my deck:
Sheltering Word : "I'll kill Thromok." "Hexproof and Gain X Life where X is his toughness?"
Hamletback Goliath: If he's out when Thromok comes a-munchin' he'll get big just by a-watchin'.
Just some cards I wouldn't add immediately but would definitely experiment with:
Zealous Conscripts: He's been mentioned, and he's awesome.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: Creatures that generate tokens love him. Copy Avenger every turn and make more tokens. Also he goes infinite with Zealous Conscripts.
Utvara Dragon: If you can get him out he creates big tokens. This is probably my worst suggestion, but hey he could be fun!
I really like these two suggestions. I'd stay away from the Kiki-Jiki + Conscripts combo tho (unless you're in a tourny), it really feels cheap to win that way.
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon, the Destroyer of Darksteel
BGW Teneb, the Harvester, my Pimped Out Reanimator
GUB The Mimeoplasm Ooze-Mill
GWU Rafiq the Exalted
I never even thought to put Hamletback Goliath in the deck as an alt wincon! That seems perfect for setting up a strong Feed the Pack in case Mokky gets blasted before he can do his magic, have the Giant out and save him in reserve to pop for puppies. Damn, Mokky is a fun General.
Feed the Pack, and Sheltering Word... But, let me address each of you individually. (Also I'll update the list after this post.)EDIT: I just Realized that Feed the Pack doesn't go off until the end of the turn... Sorry guys, too slow for me for the cost... getting the axe.... I guess old Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker will get his turn... I'll just have to try to resist temptation.. He's soooo good lol
While I like Bloodshot Cyclops well enough, I have to disagree that it "beats" Fling as I just think the cyclops has too high of a CMC... I have thought about running him before but the effect isn't worth the purse to me...
I'm not 100% sold on Feed the Pack for the same reason.. The cost, but I can see the value there and I think it might get some playtest time.
As for Fungal Sprouting, it's a recent addition to the deck and is still in testing mode... It's been dead in my hand before, but it has also won me games so it's staying in for now
And I forgot about the old Springjack Pasture, it's definitely getting slipped in, thanks.
I think Defense of the Heart is on my maybe list, I have it in a few other decks and it rarely goes off, as it gets removed before it gets the chance, but I'll keep it in mind.
Sheltering Word is an interesting idea though and I think that I'll try to get this one in the mix.
Hamletback Goliath hmmm, I feel like this guy will more often than not end up in the "win more" category, and while I like that as much as the next guy, I want to go more smoothly and attract a little less attention than this guy will get me... Let me know if I am wrong and he is essential.
Zealous Conscripts Like you said he's been mentioned before, and the fact that you brought him up again makes me wonder if maybe I'm misjudging this one, I will slip it in for a playtest.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, I think I will stay away from this guy, I won't undervalue him... But the temptation to infinite combo with him will be to great for me to withstand and that's not what I'm going for in this deck.
Utvara Dragon... I don't know what this is?
I have to agree... I run some infinites in some of my other decks... But as I stated above, it's just not where I want to be with this one.
I agree he is a blast
Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired.
Those who might never meet are pooled together
NullMage Shepard could be useful for repeatable artifact/enchantment hate.
Fresh Meat for some more wrath protection, or devour all your creatures then recreate your army.
Momentous Fall lets you draw half your deck and gain a lot of life when combined with mok.
Rogue's Passage for an unblockable 21+/21+ mok for instant kill.
Fire's of Yavimaya, although you do already have 6 cards that grant haste.
Goblin Bombardment, if you are making an army of 1/1's it is the equivalent of a reusable fling
Mitotic Slime for more tokens, 7 creatures in total.
Insurrection in case you haven't been able to build up that army and you need a finisher.
Hull Breach if your meta is heavy on enchantment and artifacts like mine is.
Chancellor of the forge, more tokens.
Leyline of Vitality, lots of life.
Trading post, generate some goats.
Any unblockable/haste cards so you can bring in mok saccing 5 creatures for a 25/25 commander, then instant kill someone, Whispersilk cloak for example.
Also regarding Bakura's post above, it is Utvara Hellkite, though it has an 8cmc and needs to attack first.
Those are all I can think of at the moment, hope it helps.
Edit: Looks like your deck has 99 cards in it?
Edit again: mage slayer and surestrike trident look decent with Thromok.
Yes, thank you for that. I call it Utvara Dragon, so naturally that's how I typed it.
It's not something I'm saying should go in. However playing a game yesterday it did spark a comeba... nevermind it was 1v1 and that accounts for nothing here.
I'd be interested to see the OP's response to this post. There are some great suggestions here!
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon, the Destroyer of Darksteel
BGW Teneb, the Harvester, my Pimped Out Reanimator
GUB The Mimeoplasm Ooze-Mill
GWU Rafiq the Exalted
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon, the Destroyer of Darksteel
BGW Teneb, the Harvester, my Pimped Out Reanimator
GUB The Mimeoplasm Ooze-Mill
GWU Rafiq the Exalted
Also, have you had much experience 1v1 with him? I've been playing 1v1 with the standard ban list and 30 life and this deck is a bit clunky. I know you built it for MP so this question is mostly moot. I've still had fairly good luck with a record of 4-5 but I feel like I can't focus on my bigger spells in the time it takes to win or lose.
Next, how's your luck been with Kodama's Reach and Cultivate? Do you think that you might be better off with some creatures that can fetch lands and then get fed to ur general? I swapped them out for Farhaven Elf and Wood Elves and have had decent results so far.
Next suggestion: Is there any reasoning behind not including Genesis in your list? The recursion seems good. Ok, i'm sure I'll think of more later, but that's it for now...
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon, the Destroyer of Darksteel
BGW Teneb, the Harvester, my Pimped Out Reanimator
GUB The Mimeoplasm Ooze-Mill
GWU Rafiq the Exalted
Wow thanks for all that in advance, and as for the 99 cards I accidently left out Copperline Gorge, I corrected the OP, good catch.
Eldrazi Monument:Might switch this in for something for a playtest, to be honest I really haven't found myself in need of a lot of wrath protection in the deck because i can generally just start over and get going just as strong, and I'm not sure if I wouldn't rather just have another token generator in the place of this... It feels like it goes against the deck's nature to be on the defensive as well. Also this card draws attention that I just don't want.
NullMage Shepherd: while I like the idea of her, she doesn't fit with what my deck wants... Thromok doesn't care about your crap he just wants you dead.
Fresh Meat: This is actually a little more my speed when it comes to wrath protection, since I can use it as a combo piece with Pandemonium effects as well, I actually think I will use this instead of the Eldrazi Monument
Momentous Fall: This was actually on my original list, and it seems good, but it got playtested out, to be honest if you are playing Mokkie and not winning that turn, then you are probably doing it wrong.
Rouge's Passage: Daddy likey, yeah that is getting switched in for something for sure, thanks.
Fire's of Yavimaya: Like you said, I already have haste effects coming out my ears and I don't think I need another one.
Goblin Bombardment: I'm on the edge with this one, it feels right but it is a little too small scale for my liking, I think I'm already rocking better options.
Mitotic Slime: Too slow for the price.
Insurrection: There aren't many times I say no to this lady, but this deck wants synergy, and while the thought of taking everything and sacrificing it all to my general is nice, I doubt it would ever happen that way.
Hull Breach: Like I said before this deck doesn't want to deal with your crap, it wants you to try to deal with it... even in multiplayer I've yet to wish I had more answers because I can usually combo a win instead.
Chancellor of the Forge: Yeah he's fancy, but he's kinda useless unless I already have tokens out, I feel like e's to expensive for his effect.
Leyline of Vitality: It's EDH bro... who cares?
Trading Post: Too expensive for the speed.
Whispersilk Cloak: I honestly rarely even need to swing with Mokkie, I generally use him as a combo piece instead, also there are a couple of cards that need him targetable to work this might get rotated in at some point, but for now it's hitting the benches.
Utvara Hellkite: Man this is so cool that it hurts me to not put it in, but it's just too slow for the cost, and to be honest, I don't really need 6/6 tokens, just a lot of little ones.
Mage Slayer: I don't know why this is so much more appealing to me than whispersilk since it's basically less for more cost but the flavor is perfect for the deck and it does let me target the general if i need to. This might actually see play.
Surestrike Trident: I actually really like this card and I run it in a poison deck I have built, but I just think that it's a little clunky here.
The name of the game for this deck is speed, I want tokens fast Master of the Wild Hunt is a great card but I opted out purely for speed reasons however I am looking to replace Skullmulcher as he has proven mediocre and I'll keep the hunter in mind. Nemata, Grove Guardian is kinda in the same boat nine mana for two creatures? meh. Sprout Swarm never got in because to be honest I just don't like the card, it's only good if I already have four tokens out and then I'd rather not waste a spot in my deck for this. Verdeloth the Ancient has the same problems going for him, I need copious ammounts of mana to make hime work, which means that I need to have the cradle online already for him to be really useful and honestly at that point he is just win more since the anthem effect is kinda negligible. Beastmaster Ascension has been great in the deck, honestly I rarely eat tokens unless A: it wins me the game or B: it gets me even more tokens... You can never have too many aces.
Skullclamp is fantastic in the mid to late game when you are digging for a combo piece to finish off your opponents or even if you run out of gas quickly in the early game, I wouldn't dream of taking it out, not even for 1 vs 1
You play with the ban list for standard? That seems silly... And why would you use 30 life? doesn't that kinda negate the whole point of EDH? Meta choices aside, I have played many games 1 vs. 1 with it and done just fine, although not as well as in multi... The best thing about this deck is it's ability to look reletively harmless... Until you win out of nowhere, and that is negated by playing heads up since you have your opponents complete attention. In heads up just race as fast as you can headlong into a combo, your only chance is to win before your opponent smashes through your lines.
The mana fixers I actually really like having them in there, nothing does the job as effectively as them, although the appeal of having another creature sure is nice, I might switch one out for Farhaven Elf, as for Wood Elves it's already on the list. My reasoning for not including Genesis on the list is purely motivated by speed, It's too mana intensive for me, both to cast and to activate you never know when you might need that 2G for that spell you are going to draw this turn.
EDIT: updated the OP, with changes.
Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired.
Those who might never meet are pooled together
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon, the Destroyer of Darksteel
BGW Teneb, the Harvester, my Pimped Out Reanimator
GUB The Mimeoplasm Ooze-Mill
GWU Rafiq the Exalted
@MikeCline83: thanks
Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired.
Those who might never meet are pooled together
I just added a Skullclamp to my deck a little bit ago. I felt almost the same way before adding it. Don't sacrifice Thromok's food, he needs it. Though with Skullclamp you can draw more token production and make up for it. At least that's what I think.
Also might I recommend a combo I just put into my deck for fun. It's an Infinite Noms combo just a heads up. It's also a bit demanding I'm just running it to have some fun. Parallel Lives/Doubling Season + Ornithopter/Memnite + Prototype Portal/Soul Foundry + Clock of Omens.
So the less threatening way is using Ornithopter's since they are 0/2s and probably can't kill everyone the next turn after going infinite also they are infinite flying defense on the next turn!
I think Soul Foundry could be a nice addition anyway. Slap one of your token-generators-that's-a-creature on it and get to work pumping them out.
While I think that for my particular list and style that's a tough combo to assemble without a way to tutor it up, but it sure sounds like fun! Let me know how Soul Foundry works out for you, it seems a little slow, but might be a viable replacement for Mimic Vat if you have success with it I'll probably give it a spin as well.
Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired.
Those who might never meet are pooled together
Alright will do. Gonna be playing him a little more often since I added a bunch of new stuff to my deck.
Have you had any trouble with decks that have a lot of flying? I lose to my friends Rakdos deck every time, so i added gravity well. It seems like you would suffer the same as me without it.
Why no Kazandu Tuskcaller?
To be honest, Fresh Meat just recently got added in and I've yet to draw it but I'll post my complete thoughts on it after it gets more playtime... But it's actually in the deck more as a combo piece than wrath protection... Think of it this way Pandemonium + Thromok + Fresh Meat = Multi kill.
I haven't had any problem with flying decks at the moment, I usually don't pose enough of a threat to warrant their full attention until it's too late... But this is a multiplayer list... Also if your meta is heavy on the flyers and you find it to be a problem then it's a great idea to add in these effects.
As far as Kazandu Tuskcaller, it is a little underwhelming to me, not terrible by any means, but you need to invest six mana to get it online and fourteen total to get it to be really useful. It just seems like a lot, but being able to cast it turn two could offset that a bit I suppose... Have you found it to be exceptional?
Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired.
Those who might never meet are pooled together
I know you mentioned not wanting to go off with Kiki-Jiki combos, but what about adding Sekki, Season's Guide as a combo piece to go with your Warstorm Surge/Pandemonium? I've been running it (and no tutors for it) in my Thromok deck and like how it can randomly come out of nowhere and win games for me - much as the rest of my deck is designed to do.
The combo basically works like this: 1) Have Warstorm Surge or Pandemonium out in play, 2) Cast Sekki, Season's Guide, 3) Use Sekki's trigger off surge/pandemonium to target itself, 4) Sekki dies and poops out 8 spirit tokens, 5) Target your opponents with the spirit token triggers, 6) Sacrifice 8 spirits to bring back Sekki, 7) Rinse/repeat until everyone else is dead.
It's different, fits with Thromoks theme of making creatures to feed him, and assuming you don't go digging for the combo constantly, it's kinda funny the first few times it goes off since nobody really expects it.
Trust me when I say that Vicious Shadows is worth it. Yes it is expensive, but when it goes off it doles out silly amounts of damage!
I actually think that this is a fantastic idea, thank you for bringing it up! What I really like about it is that the card is really on theme and can be useful to me even if I don't combo out with it! Although it is really expensive, it might not be a bad thing to have around as a last ditch effort to take out a really annoying player. I think that for now it's going to sub in for Verdant Embrace which I have been looking for a replacement for anyway.
Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired.
Those who might never meet are pooled together