More comments and questions to come when I have time, but your comments questions and concerns are absolutely welcome before then!
Edit 07/24/2012: Changed a few cards... +Bloodgift Demon, +Herald of War, +Crystal Ball, +Stonehewer Giant. -Mother of Runes, -Urza's Incubator, -Belbe's Portal, -Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Edit 07/24/2012: Added cards I have on hand to potentially swap in!
Thread Title: Shouldn't Kaalia be a pimptress, or a Pimpess, or something? Unlike Olivia, Kaalia's not a shemale.
Weak creatures: Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Sunblast Angel, Platinum Angel. Ob just isn't impressive in Kaalia, Sunblast will actually kill your dudes if you play it off Kaalia, and if you're hardcasting SBA, why is she in a Kaalia deck in the first place? And instead of preventing losses, why not just win? (in regards to Plat Angel)
Rocks: I would definitely consider dropping the not Quicksilver Amulet type cards, Darksteel Ingot and the Lotus (Portal, Incubator etc), for Charcoal Diamond and its two friends etc. Gives you the possibility for a T3 Kaalia (I assume this is an aggro build of KtV).
There are a few cards in here that I find to be too gimmicky for the deck.
Belebe's Portal and Urza's Incubator are neat, but honestly, I wouldn't run them. Angels will be your best choice and you have 14 of them. Which is all fine, but there will be times when you're sitting on an Incubator going "Man, one more mana would be great right now," Staring at 6 lands and a Rune-Scarred Daemon after someone just dropped a Wrath of God. It doesn't do enough, I feel.
The Portal has a little more merit because you can throw something like Conspiracy into the deck and name Demon. That way, you get a TON of mileage out of Bloodspeeker, and admittedly, it also helps the Incubator, though I would still cut it. If you want to go with the whole "I cheat things into play" aspect of Kaalia, I would put in a Cryptic Gateway and I'll tell you why later for some real fun.
Mother of Runes is a card I see in a lot of Kaalia decks and I'm not sure why. It's really not that great. Kaalia gets protection from a single color for a turn and now you have a tapped 1/1 for the other 3-7 turns.
I would leave the Sunblast Angel in for what I'm about to suggest and put Urabrask, the Hidden in place of Mother. Try to squeeze a bunch of Tutors, and then add these two cards:
Have the two out with a graveyard full of creatures (Like Urabrask and Sunblast angel) that are now all the same type of creature. with Warstorm Surge, you probably just killed someone as well as destrying all their tapped creatures that just entered the battlefield. Oh, they all have haste, so go get them!
Weak creatures: Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Sunblast Angel, Platinum Angel. Ob just isn't impressive in Kaalia, Sunblast will actually kill your dudes if you play it off Kaalia, and if you're hardcasting SBA, why is she in a Kaalia deck in the first place? And instead of preventing losses, why not just win? (in regards to Plat Angel).
I agree heartily with these suggestions, particularly that you lose Sunblast Angel, which is not only relatively weak, but also incredibly anti-synergistic with Kaalia.
Mother of Runes is a card I see in a lot of Kaalia decks and I'm not sure why. It's really not that great. Kaalia gets protection from a single color for a turn and now you have a tapped 1/1 for the other 3-7 turns.
I would leave the Sunblast Angel in for what I'm about to suggest and put Urabrask, the Hidden in place of Mother. Try to squeeze a bunch of Tutors, and then add these two cards:
Have the two out with a graveyard full of creatures (Like Urabrask and Sunblast angel) that are now all the same type of creature. with Warstorm Surge, you probably just killed someone as well as destrying all their tapped creatures that just entered the battlefield. Oh, they all have haste, so go get them!
Mother: "Counter your targeted bounce/kill/etc." Which Kaalia decks can have a problem with.
Conspiracy, Patriarch's Bidding, Blood Speaker etc I don't understand. Tricolor to me is already cramped enough for deck space, why do people run such wacky interactions? . Yes I have a competitive streak, but I'm not all Spike.
^ That also applies to your Sunblast strategy. You could run that convoluted mess, or you could just run Terminus...
Mother: "Counter your targeted bounce/kill/etc." Which Kaalia decks can have a problem with.
Conspiracy, Patriarch's Bidding, Blood Speaker etc I don't understand. Tricolor to me is already cramped enough for deck space, why do people run such wacky interactions? . Yes I have a competitive streak, but I'm not all Spike.
^ That also applies to your Sunblast strategy. You could run that convoluted mess, or you could just run Terminus...
I personally don't run that combo (Deck in Signature =P), and I do run Terminus, however it looked like he was going for more of a fun way to put creatures into play with the portals, so you might as well take advantage of it.
Mother of Runes still doesn't look that great to me because you get to use it once per turn. If that guy doesn't do it, the next guy will if she's being that much a problem. I used to run her, but cut her after I realized she really didn't do much. Kaalia should have Boots/Greaves anyway, so the point is moot. That's how I see it at least. If she works out for you, more power to you =)
Thread Title: Shouldn't Kaalia be a pimptress, or a Pimpess, or something? Unlike Olivia, Kaalia's not a shemale.
Weak creatures: Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Sunblast Angel, Platinum Angel. Ob just isn't impressive in Kaalia, Sunblast will actually kill your dudes if you play it off Kaalia, and if you're hardcasting SBA, why is she in a Kaalia deck in the first place? And instead of preventing losses, why not just win? (in regards to Plat Angel)
Rocks: I would definitely consider dropping the not Quicksilver Amulet type cards, Darksteel Ingot and the Lotus (Portal, Incubator etc), for Charcoal Diamond and its two friends etc. Gives you the possibility for a T3 Kaalia (I assume this is an aggro build of KtV).
Portal and Incubator, I agree, they may have to go. They're good for certain cards but they're just not accurate enough 100% of the time. I may go with some form of rocks, like charcoal diamond style...
Ob is too slow, I agree there also. I'll work on cutting him...
I'm having a hard time agreeing with cutting Platinum Angel just save for the fact that it COULD save me if I'm on the ropes and my opponent isn't holding removal, or I have an aegis angel or avacyn or darksteel plate or some other form of protection for him. With GY recursion, I feel I MAY be able to come back with this card...
Sunblast Angel... I'm on the fence for. I totally realize he can't be cheated in effectively, but when hardcast, he feels to me like a one sided wrath. May not hit everything, but can wipe mana dorks/helpers, or potentially remove heavy hitters, and I still have Quicksilver Amulet and Sneak Attack to play him as instant speed removal for cheap if need be.
There are a few cards in here that I find to be too gimmicky for the deck.
Belebe's Portal and Urza's Incubator are neat, but honestly, I wouldn't run them. Angels will be your best choice and you have 14 of them. Which is all fine, but there will be times when you're sitting on an Incubator going "Man, one more mana would be great right now," Staring at 6 lands and a Rune-Scarred Daemon after someone just dropped a Wrath of God. It doesn't do enough, I feel.
The Portal has a little more merit because you can throw something like Conspiracy into the deck and name Demon. That way, you get a TON of mileage out of Bloodspeeker, and admittedly, it also helps the Incubator, though I would still cut it. If you want to go with the whole "I cheat things into play" aspect of Kaalia, I would put in a Cryptic Gateway and I'll tell you why later for some real fun.
Mother of Runes is a card I see in a lot of Kaalia decks and I'm not sure why. It's really not that great. Kaalia gets protection from a single color for a turn and now you have a tapped 1/1 for the other 3-7 turns.
I would leave the Sunblast Angel in for what I'm about to suggest and put Urabrask, the Hidden in place of Mother. Try to squeeze a bunch of Tutors, and then add these two cards:
Have the two out with a graveyard full of creatures (Like Urabrask and Sunblast angel) that are now all the same type of creature. with Warstorm Surge, you probably just killed someone as well as destrying all their tapped creatures that just entered the battlefield. Oh, they all have haste, so go get them!
I will definitely consider an Urabrask, the Hidden, unfortunately I don't have one on hand Conspiracy is another new one for me... that may also have some mileage in this deck, especially with Blood Seeker, which I'm also hesitant to cut due to his recurring demon tutoring (the demons I run, outside of Ob, are pretty big ones to play... Rune-Scarred to tutor more, Harvester/Bloodgift for card draw if needed, Rakdos to swing for a win)
Also, since budget doesn't seem to be a concern for this deck, needs moar Vindicate.
I've already spent a LOT of money on this deck and my two others (when I probably should have printed proxies), so I'm really hesitant to drop another 25 bucks on a vindicate. I don't play serious competitive EDH, and I generally end up loaning my friends my decks so we can all play. That's why I haven't bought it yet.
Going to update the first post with cards I could potentially include that I have on hand...
Made a few changes based on your opinions guys, I will have to see how the curve feels. The Herald of War may be a bit slow, as is the Crystal Ball, but as I may have mentioned earlier this isn't a competition deck, so as long as it's not a failure I'm happy.
From your "cards on hand" list, Bloodgift Demon should DEFINITELY find his way in. He's a great little Phyrexian Arena on legs, with relevant creature types and whatnot.
From your "cards on hand" list, Bloodgift Demon should DEFINITELY find his way in. He's a great little Phyrexian Arena on legs, with relevant creature types and whatnot.
Yep, I included him in the the latest update! Thank you!
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Creature(25)
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sunblast Angel
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Aegis Angel
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Reya Dawnbringer
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Twilight Shepherd
1 Platinum Angel
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Blood Speaker
1 Angelic Arbiter
1 Angel of Despair
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Herald of War
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Anger
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Bloodgift Demon
Planeswalker(3)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Liliana Vess
Enchantment(3)
1 Warstorm Surge
1 Sneak Attack
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Chaos Warp
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Banishing Stroke
1 Mortify
1 Return to Dust
1 Terminate
1 Path to Exile
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery(8)
1 Wrath of God
1 Austere Command
1 Dread Return
1 Day of Judgment
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Earthquake
1 Preator's Grasp
1 Unburial Rites
Artifact(15)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Scroll Rack
1 Expedition Map
1 Mind's Eye
1 Crystal Ball
1 Command Tower
1 Rupture Spire
1 Scrubland
1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Boros Garrison
1 Radkos Carnarium
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Marsh Flats
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vesuva
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Molten Slagheap
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Evolving Wilds
2 Mountain
4 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Ajani Goldmane
Instants
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Condemn
1 Act of Aggression
Sorceries
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Syphon Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Crystal Ball
1 Akroma's Memorial
Creatures
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Sublime Archangel
1 Moonveil Dragon
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Tsabo Tavoc
1 Furyborn Hellkite
1 Flameblast Dragon
1 Pit Spawn
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Herald of War
1 Deathless Angel
1 Malfegor
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Eldrazi Conscription
1 Reconnaissance
1 War's Toll
More comments and questions to come when I have time, but your comments questions and concerns are absolutely welcome before then!
Edit 07/24/2012: Changed a few cards... +Bloodgift Demon, +Herald of War, +Crystal Ball, +Stonehewer Giant. -Mother of Runes, -Urza's Incubator, -Belbe's Portal, -Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Edit 07/24/2012: Added cards I have on hand to potentially swap in!
GRBKarrthus, the CheatinatorBRG
RWGMayael, Who Sneaks her Friends into PartiesGWR
BWRKaalia, Angel PimpRWB
Weak creatures: Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Sunblast Angel, Platinum Angel. Ob just isn't impressive in Kaalia, Sunblast will actually kill your dudes if you play it off Kaalia, and if you're hardcasting SBA, why is she in a Kaalia deck in the first place? And instead of preventing losses, why not just win? (in regards to Plat Angel)
Rocks: I would definitely consider dropping the not Quicksilver Amulet type cards, Darksteel Ingot and the Lotus (Portal, Incubator etc), for Charcoal Diamond and its two friends etc. Gives you the possibility for a T3 Kaalia (I assume this is an aggro build of KtV).
Lands: Hall of the Bandit Lord over Slayers' Stronghold. Once again, the T3 Kaalia possibility but with haste, as opposed to the same but on like T7 or something.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Belebe's Portal and Urza's Incubator are neat, but honestly, I wouldn't run them. Angels will be your best choice and you have 14 of them. Which is all fine, but there will be times when you're sitting on an Incubator going "Man, one more mana would be great right now," Staring at 6 lands and a Rune-Scarred Daemon after someone just dropped a Wrath of God. It doesn't do enough, I feel.
The Portal has a little more merit because you can throw something like Conspiracy into the deck and name Demon. That way, you get a TON of mileage out of Bloodspeeker, and admittedly, it also helps the Incubator, though I would still cut it. If you want to go with the whole "I cheat things into play" aspect of Kaalia, I would put in a Cryptic Gateway and I'll tell you why later for some real fun.
Mother of Runes is a card I see in a lot of Kaalia decks and I'm not sure why. It's really not that great. Kaalia gets protection from a single color for a turn and now you have a tapped 1/1 for the other 3-7 turns.
I would leave the Sunblast Angel in for what I'm about to suggest and put Urabrask, the Hidden in place of Mother. Try to squeeze a bunch of Tutors, and then add these two cards:
Have the two out with a graveyard full of creatures (Like Urabrask and Sunblast angel) that are now all the same type of creature. with Warstorm Surge, you probably just killed someone as well as destrying all their tapped creatures that just entered the battlefield. Oh, they all have haste, so go get them!
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
I agree heartily with these suggestions, particularly that you lose Sunblast Angel, which is not only relatively weak, but also incredibly anti-synergistic with Kaalia.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Mother: "Counter your targeted bounce/kill/etc." Which Kaalia decks can have a problem with.
Conspiracy, Patriarch's Bidding, Blood Speaker etc I don't understand. Tricolor to me is already cramped enough for deck space, why do people run such wacky interactions?
^ That also applies to your Sunblast strategy. You could run that convoluted mess, or you could just run Terminus...
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I personally don't run that combo (Deck in Signature =P), and I do run Terminus, however it looked like he was going for more of a fun way to put creatures into play with the portals, so you might as well take advantage of it.
Mother of Runes still doesn't look that great to me because you get to use it once per turn. If that guy doesn't do it, the next guy will if she's being that much a problem. I used to run her, but cut her after I realized she really didn't do much. Kaalia should have Boots/Greaves anyway, so the point is moot. That's how I see it at least. If she works out for you, more power to you =)
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
Portal and Incubator, I agree, they may have to go. They're good for certain cards but they're just not accurate enough 100% of the time. I may go with some form of rocks, like charcoal diamond style...
Ob is too slow, I agree there also. I'll work on cutting him...
I'm having a hard time agreeing with cutting Platinum Angel just save for the fact that it COULD save me if I'm on the ropes and my opponent isn't holding removal, or I have an aegis angel or avacyn or darksteel plate or some other form of protection for him. With GY recursion, I feel I MAY be able to come back with this card...
Sunblast Angel... I'm on the fence for. I totally realize he can't be cheated in effectively, but when hardcast, he feels to me like a one sided wrath. May not hit everything, but can wipe mana dorks/helpers, or potentially remove heavy hitters, and I still have Quicksilver Amulet and Sneak Attack to play him as instant speed removal for cheap if need be.
I will definitely consider an Urabrask, the Hidden, unfortunately I don't have one on hand
I've already spent a LOT of money on this deck and my two others (when I probably should have printed proxies), so I'm really hesitant to drop another 25 bucks on a vindicate. I don't play serious competitive EDH, and I generally end up loaning my friends my decks so we can all play. That's why I haven't bought it yet.
Going to update the first post with cards I could potentially include that I have on hand...
GRBKarrthus, the CheatinatorBRG
RWGMayael, Who Sneaks her Friends into PartiesGWR
BWRKaalia, Angel PimpRWB
Any other ideas?
GRBKarrthus, the CheatinatorBRG
RWGMayael, Who Sneaks her Friends into PartiesGWR
BWRKaalia, Angel PimpRWB
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Yep, I included him in the the latest update! Thank you!
GRBKarrthus, the CheatinatorBRG
RWGMayael, Who Sneaks her Friends into PartiesGWR
BWRKaalia, Angel PimpRWB