I've been playing with the deck for a while now (somewhere between 5 and 6 years), and I'm totally impressed how it turned out. My old Lyzolda deck was quite awesome, but while playing I noticed that (A) the black was doing the heavy lifting anyway, (B) the red was basically only there to deal damage, which meant that I had a couple of cards that were only useful when I was ready to win the game, and (C) as hard as I tried, Lyzolda (the way I envisioned her) was a little underpowered. I decided that I wanted to try it out as a mono black deck to see if I could finish games without the red damage. It was. Even better. On the one side it's more resilient, because there are less situational (red) cards. On the other side it's a lot more explosive because of Endrek's ability.
After seeing Sam Black's Zombie Bombardment deck in action I decided to see if I could make something like that work in EDH. (For those who didn't see the deck, scroll down a bit on http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/a ... welcome#0))
What I really like about this kind of deck is that it relies solely on synergy. It's an engine. It's power is the combined parts of the deck, while it lacks any real haymakers. Sure, some of the engine oarts are good, maybe even TOO good (looking at you Goblin Bombardment..), but they only get rolling when combined with other stuff. And even then, most of the advantage it creates is small and steady instead of big and splashy.
The problem with small and steady in EDH is that it might just not be good enough to run with the big boys. All this carefully crafted engine work might just be Undone with the casting of one big, powerful spell (or said spell might create about the same effect..). Not to mention that parts of an engine are just that. Parts. Without other parts, they're worthless.
One of most common solutions to the above problem is to make the engine an infinite combo that wins on the spot, but that's exactly what I want to aVoid. I want synergy, not combo. Which I understand has a bit of overlap and what some might call combo, others call synergy.
So, will it work? Is it too clunky? Underpowered? Can it win without resorting to combo? Is it even pretentious to call this combo stuff synergy? Is it nothing more than a glass cannon?
I don't know, but wanted to find out. Just to see if what's in my head works out. It doesn't have to be all-powerful, but don't like to sit around all game waiting for that one piece to show up either. Preferably without too many tutors. So, that means redundancy.
For now I've selected black as my main color, because of it's sacrificial nature and self-recurring guys, with red as a second and maybe green as third. I don't really want to Savra as a general, which is nothing more than a personal preference: I don't want to play straight GB as a color combination. I do like GBR though, so that's fine. Other color combinations might work too, I don't know.
The bread and butter of the deck. Without these, especially the ones that are free to use, the deck falls flat. Phyrexian Ghoul/Nantuko Husk/Carrion Feeder might look underpowered, but the fact that they are (A) creatures to trigger Endrek/stuff when it dies, (B) unlimited free sac outlets, (C) cheap, makes them very important to the deck. Note the variety of effects these sac outlets create: from lifegain to removal to mana.
self-recurring creatures - unlimited Gravecrawler, Reassembling Skeleton, Bloodghast, Nether Traitor, Endless Cockroaches.
I think these speak for themselves. Most of the time you only need 1 of these creatures each game, preferably Gravecrawler or Bloodghast because they are free. However, these creatures are so useful you don’t mind the redundancy and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. For example: Endless Cockroaches is the worst of the bunch, but makes the most tokens with Endrek and makes infinite mana/triggers with Phyrexian Altar. Also, you want more than one in the deck to be able to bounce back easier after graveyard removal.
self-recurring creatures – once Corpse Conoisseur, Puppeteer Clique
When Lyzolda was the general, there were some more undying/persisting dudes here, but these were the only 2 left. Both pretty nice though: Corpse Conoisseur is an interesting tutor (the only acceptable type) that can either find one of the creatures in the above category, or a bomb if you have a recursion effect. Puppeteer Clique is one of a few ways for this deck to access effects it doesn’t have in the deck. It’s pretty great to steal someone’s Terastodon for example.
does something when dies Solemn Simulacrum, Filth, Mindslicer,
No explanation needed for Solemn, I think. Filth is nice with Urborg to push potentially large Carrion Feeders through. Mindslicer is a mean card and probably on it’s way out.
2 cards to note in this category are Dark Prophecy and Dross Harvester. I think I can safely say that Dross Harvester is one of the best cards in the deck. It has a very unique and very needed effect. This is mainly because of Dark Prophecy being busted, but very scary as well. When this deck gets its gears going, Dark Prophecy will kill it. Blood Artist/Falkenrath Noble offset this as well, but the added lifegain is what sets Dross Harvester apart because it also makes sure you have a nice life buffer against the attacks that will come your way at this point. (This also is the reason that Disciple of Bolas and Disciple of Griselbrand are in the deck: lifegain can make a difference).
Coffin Queen, Balthor the Defiled, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Phyrexian Reclamation, Victimize, Dread Return, Living Death, Nim Deathmantle, Lifeline, Unholy Grotto, Volrath’s Stronghold
Easy feature for black decks. Especially good in this deck because this deck tends to kill its own men. Especially Balthor, Mikaeus and Living Death are nuts.
Dread Return is often a wild card. I’ve had numerous times where I had all kinds of creatures in play but was facing lethal if I passed the turn unless I found a certain creature (mostly Dross Harvester). If you have an Altar of Dementia in play, you can mill yourself to find the creature and Dread Return to bring it to play. Obviously, if that creature happens to be Balthor, it’s gravy.
Withered Wretch, Shriekmaw, Massacre Wurm, Phyrexian Arena, Damnation, some of the utility lands.
Just adding a bit in area’s where the deck could use some help. Wretch is good when you’re planning on casting Living Death. Shriekmaw is very nice to recur. Massacre Wurm is a nice token sweeper and can actually kill the opponent (with or without the help of a Grave Pact), Damnation is a needed reset button and the lands are just nice to have. Note that I have a couple tutors to find these bullets. Also, with one of the carddraw engines in place, you see a lot of your deck.
Try the deck, it's a total blast to play.
If anyone wants to see the old Lyzolda deck, shoot me a PM.
One thing I was thinking about: would Vengeful Dead be worth it? It obviously does exactly what I want, but I don't know how many zombies I would need to make it work better than, say, Hissing Iguanar.
Also, who has a good idea about what the most synergystic (sp?) way to destroy artifacts would be?
I hope this doesn't come across as "too dumb" but what about Tainted Æther. I've personally never found a better sac outlet.
Nothing's 'too dumb'.
You know, I've never really looked at tainted aether as a sac outlet. What I don't like about the card is that it doesn't really synergize with my other sac outlets. If I have, for example, Goblin Bombardment and Attrition out, I can choose to which I want to sacrifice my Reassembling Skeleton. With Tainted Aether I don't have that flexibility, unless I want to sac a land.
Also, Tainted Aether doesn't produce an additional effect (it just makes me sac stuff) and I can't control timing of it (often I play a waiting game, just putting my creatures and sac outlets on the board and respond to whatever happens). The upside (forcing your opponents to sacrifice too when they play a creature), is something I'm afraid of will annoy people and make me a hate magnet.
Thanks for the suggestion though, it certainly is a card I hadn't thought of myself!
Nothing's 'too dumb'.
You know, I've never really looked at tainted aether as a sac outlet. What I don't like about the card is that it doesn't really synergize with my other sac outlets. If I have, for example, Goblin Bombardment and Attrition out, I can choose to which I want to sacrifice my Reassembling Skeleton. With Tainted Aether I don't have that flexibility, unless I want to sac a land.
Also, Tainted Aether doesn't produce an additional effect (it just makes me sac stuff) and I can't control timing of it (often I play a waiting game, just putting my creatures and sac outlets on the board and respond to whatever happens). The upside (forcing your opponents to sacrifice too when they play a creature), is something I'm afraid of will annoy people and make me a hate magnet.
Thanks for the suggestion though, it certainly is a card I hadn't thought of myself!
I agree and understand that it might not directly fit as the deck stands. With the introduction of Undying and punishment cards like Warstorm Surge give sneaky options for abuse. Couple that with persist for some out of no where plays.
And like you said, it might be annoying to other players, but it does put a stop to flooding tokens and or extremely rampy builds. That being said, as it is an enchantment, it will either slow up the other players boards for a few turns or die to naturalize. Either way, in the mean time, you get potential use out of it and time to establish better board control for your self as your other sac outlets will probably seem waaaayyyy less important targets.
I agree and understand that it might not directly fit as the deck stands. With the introduction of Undying and punishment cards like Warstorm Surge give sneaky options for abuse. Couple that with persist for some out of no where plays.
And like you said, it might be annoying to other players, but it does put a stop to flooding tokens and or extremely rampy builds. That being said, as it is an enchantment, it will either slow up the other players boards for a few turns or die to naturalize. Either way, in the mean time, you get potential use out of it and time to establish better board control for your self as your other sac outlets will probably seem waaaayyyy less important targets.
Agreed, a makeover of the deck would make it a lot more useful.
As for building up my board, that's exactly what I worry about it will work against. So far in the games I've played, my board has a lot of creatures. As long as Tainted Aether is in play, I'm not able to add creatures either unless I sacrifice lands, stunting my own growth as well. It is very good vs tokens however, but I think I'd rather add Goblin Sharpshooter if tokens are a problem.
I'll comment later on some of the individual cards when I havr more time, but for now I was wondering: is your list for multiplayer or 1 on 1?
Indeed it seems you have a bit more stax approach. I imagine people you play with are fine with Contamination? A friend of mine has a really cool Endrek Sahr deck in which he used to run it too, and I have to say it's really unfun to play against.
Mine's for multi but my meta has a ton of combo decks so I think if I'm not running combo I should get the strongest my colors have to offer, we're also ok with mld so if they can play mld I should be able to play mana denial. We're kinda cutthroat, but their decks are not tuned very well so it's not to hard to pull a win even with the combos though I'm thinking of running sadistic sacrament to stop combo decks.
Blood Artist, Falkenrath Noble, Hissing Iguanar, Stalking Vengeance, Vicious Shadows
The whittling squad. Although, Stalking Vengeance and Vicious Shadows don't exactly whittle. Still good, and like Harvester, very good against sweepers (the last guy playing a Wildfire against the table with me having Vicious Shadows out didn't live long afterwards).
Also you said this but worldfire exiles and he would have no cards in hand to take damage from.
Mine's for multi but my meta has a ton of combo decks so I think if I'm not running combo I should get the strongest my colors have to offer, we're also ok with mld so if they can play mld I should be able to play mana denial. We're kinda cutthroat, but their decks are not tuned very well so it's not to hard to pull a win even with the combos though I'm thinking of running sadistic sacrament to stop combo decks.
Also you said this but worldfire exiles and he would have no cards in hand to take damage from.
I see your list is built for a more competitive meta. I might run some of them as well. Braids, Cabal Minion seems allright if I would need an effect like that, and maybe Defiler of Souls. Speaking of which, Defiler seems to appear in more Lyzolda lists. How good is it?
You also run a lot more 'good stuff': more tutors, more generic removal, more generic carddraw. Which obviously is pretty useful, and will make the deck better. I just like to play as much on theme as possible and don't have room for good cards, lol.
You have a couple creatures that seem subpar, especially Hellhole Rats and Sanity Gnawers. Are these any good? You said your playgroup is competitive and plays combo, but targeted unselective diScard does not seem that useful. Is it because they're black and red? Have you thought about Mindslash? It's targeted as well, but you can choose the cards. Even Sadistic Hypnotist seems good, especially with Endrek.
I don't really like Kathari Bomber either, but it's 2 creatures (at least), so I can see that happening.
Oversold Cemetery is a card that's always hit or miss in my experience. In decks without a lot of creatures I don't have 4 creatures that often. Lategame it's very good, but get hit with graveyard removal (which with my deck will happen) and it's down again. I might reconsider it though, because it's cheap free recursion.
Is Rakdos Rite-Knife any good?
Oh, good call on Reprocess by the way. How does that play out? I don't have too many creatures out at the same time, but it IS good thematic carddraw.
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About your adds:
I think you might need a bit more artifacts for Goblin Welder, and a bit more goblins for Goblin Recruiter for both to be really good. I'd add Welder first btw, it gives you something unique. Tutors are in the deck already and I can't spot any goblins worth searching for.
and jeweled amulet allows for turn 2 lyzolda as would sol ring
oh and I'm already looking to buy the autocrat, thanks!
@ Reprocess, will do! Carddraw is always welcome.
@ Jeweled Amulet: is that really necessary? I've never felt the need to rush her out. I'll play her early, but especially in multiplayer, I can't imagine this to really make a difference. Plus, I've enough early plays as is.
@ Autocrat: you're welcome
I changed my list somewhat, mostly because I just don't own all the cards (yet). Still been doing great. For example, I'm without Gravecrawler atm, but I haven't missed it really. I have so many self-recurring creatures that most of the time I can find one. Without tutoring.
I'll post my list up sometime this week.
I still love the amazing synergy of the deck. It seems to have answers to most problems, quite some defense and offense. I like it. I'm hoping that Return to Ravnica brings us some goodies.
Oh, by the way, have you tried Ritual of the Machine? Helm of Possession is one of my favorite, one of the most unique effects in the deck. Ritual isn't Helm by a long shot, but it might be good enough to include. Stealing Consecrated Sphinx, Primeval Titan, Sun Titan, Reveillark or something like Tradewind Rider sounds delicious.
Oh, it's cool allright, and I respect people playing weird cards. That's half the fun of EDH.
On enchantments.. Well, I kinda conceded that point to be honest. Chaos Warp is good enough, but I figured that one enchantment removal spell wouldn't make that much difference and my Chaos Warp is in my mono red deck. Most enchantments don't really bother me as of yet and if they do I'm hoping they bother someone else as well. If I keep losing to enchantments, I might add some answers though.
Those are all pretty good. Especially with Welder, Spine is amazing. I don't think I'm going to run either off these, just because I don't like how they're off theme.
Tortured Existance has been allright for me, but not spectaular and is probably one of the first cards coming out when I see something better.
Akki Blizzard-Herder
Lol, this is nice and janky. Nice with Phyrexian Reclamation I presume? By the way, where's your Crucible of Worlds? That card seems awesome in your build.
I know you're more Stax than me, but this was for multiplayer, right? The landdestroyers I can get behind somewhat, but is Sanity Gnawers really good enough? Have you tried Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker? Seems good with these guys.. And Lyzolda in general. (get it? general? lol, sorry)
Reforge the Soul
Did you run out of Wheel of Fortune, or is there a good reason to be running this over Wheel? (Oh wait, I noticed Wheel in your 'to add' list)
Insidious Dreams
I'm not a fan of tutors in general (!), but unless you're trying to assemble a combo, isn't Diabolic Tutor better?
About your adds:
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed = awesome
fulminator mage = probably awesome
Phyrexian reclamation = very awesome
terminate = good roleplayer if you need it
void = awesome
spine of ish sah = good unique effect, albeit expensive, but good with Welder
mycosynth wellspring = not worth it imo. Only really good with Welder and Post, otherwise a bit meh.
chaos warp = good unique effect, awesome
stranglehold = awesome if you go for Stax
Wheel of Fortune = awesome, especially since you run Reforge already. (I don't run either and don't feel like I need it, but they are really good)
I'm waiting for RAV too, hoping there's some good on-theme stuff in there. Especially hoping new Rakdos will be awesome!
Offtopic: by the way, didn't you use to have a budget Slobad deck on cockatrice? Mind PM-ing me that so I can get some ideas? I'm pondering building a Slobad deck to stuff my fun red/artifact stuff in.
Akki Blizzard-Herder
Lol, this is nice and janky. Nice with Phyrexian Reclamation I presume? By the way, where's your Crucible of Worlds? That card seems awesome in your build.
I know you're more Stax than me, but this was for multiplayer, right? The landdestroyers I can get behind somewhat, but is Sanity Gnawers really good enough? Have you tried Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker? Seems good with these guys.. And Lyzolda in general. (get it? general? lol, sorry)
Reforge the Soul
Did you run out of Wheel of Fortune, or is there a good reason to be running this over Wheel? (Oh wait, I noticed Wheel in your 'to add' list)
Insidious Dreams
I'm not a fan of tutors in general (!), but unless you're trying to assemble a combo, isn't Diabolic Tutor better?
About your adds:
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed = awesome
fulminator mage = probably awesome
Phyrexian reclamation = very awesome
terminate = good roleplayer if you need it
void = awesome
spine of ish sah = good unique effect, albeit expensive, but good with Welder
mycosynth wellspring = not worth it imo. Only really good with Welder and Post, otherwise a bit meh.
chaos warp = good unique effect, awesome
stranglehold = awesome if you go for Stax
Wheel of Fortune = awesome, especially since you run Reforge already. (I don't run either and don't feel like I need it, but they are really good)
I'm waiting for RAV too, hoping there's some good on-theme stuff in there. Especially hoping new Rakdos will be awesome!
Offtopic: by the way, didn't you use to have a budget Slobad deck on cockatrice? Mind PM-ing me that so I can get some ideas? I'm pondering building a Slobad deck to stuff my fun red/artifact stuff in.
To sanity gnawers I just like the card, hellhole rats is coming out, also I had kiki-jiki but had to trade it for my entomb, I'm getting another!
Vengeful Pharoah has been amazing, especially with trading post to discard it to gain life for my life costing cards.
Mindclaw is still testing but it's potentially amazing value, and good to copy.
Don't get me started on my main man trading post, helps to keep my life up (I'm often focused and I use it to gain an average of 20 life a game with squee, unearth cards, recursives like bloodghast) and the other effects are all relevent, favorite card in the deck.
I'm also getting Phyrexia's core to interact with spine and wellspring
Insidious can set up combos which is why I like it, but I like it also because it can stack my grave, also I love the art and want it in foil badly, foiling out the deck btw 34% complete >:D)
also I don't need manaforge cinder, but it's a beautiful foil, and it does help with manafixing
YOU KNOW MY SLOBAD LIST? I'll pm it for sure I have a non budget list too
Ok, so here are the changes I made to the deck in the OP. I haven't changed the decklist yet, because this is what I'm testing at the moment. And partly because some of the cards are in my deck because I have yet to aquire some others.
Sac-outlets
- Gate to Phyrexia
- Diabolic Intent
+ Fallen Angel
Both the cuts are cards I intend to add to the deck sooner or later, I just don't have them. What I did have was a nice minty Fallen Angel from Legends, so I added her. I think she might stay for a while. I like the threat she represents, I like the Legends art, I like that she's an unrestricted sac-outlet, I like that she's a creature.
Cards that benefit from creatures dying
- Hissing Iguanar
- Khabal Ghoul
+ Rage Thrower
+ Dross Harvester
Same reason for cuts, but both Hissing Iguanar and Khabal Ghoul might not make the deck after all. Khabal Ghoul might replace Rockslide Elemental when I find one. Iguanar might go in when I have some free slots and I need the damage. The Rage Thrower I threw in the deck to replace fills this need X2 however, so I probably won't need Iguanar. Dross Harvester, my god is this card awesome. I totally forgot about him, but boy can he gain life! It's a perfect card for a grindy deck like this one.
Creatures that don't mind dying
- Gravecrawler
+ Filth
Yeah, this is awkward. Gravecrawler should definitely be in the deck. The funny thing is though, I haven't missed it a bit. That said, when I find one for cheap it will go in.
Filth got added because I wanted to try him. So far he hasn't made waves. Probably because I don't need the reach. The name is awesome though.
Mana
+ Rakdos Signet
+ Wasteland
Wasteland seemed useful, Rakdos signet is foil.
- Badlands
- Lavaclaw Reaches
- Command Tower
- Jund Panorama
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- Dragonskull Summit
+ Terramorphic Expanse
+ 3 Swamp
+ Mountain
I didn't have all the duals yet, so this is my change for now. The mana is probably a bit worse, but not by a lot. Urborg, hmm, where's my Urborg, that should in..
I'm going to try and find a Balthor too.
Cards I'm on the fence about:
Ashen Ghoul and Brood of Cockroaches
The worst of the self-recurrers. One or both might come out when Gravecrawler gets added.
Filth
Don't know if I need the effect. Most of my creatures are small enough that attacking doesn't really make a difference. It's good with the creatures that get bigger though, so for now I want to try him out. Better when I find my damn Urborg...
Tortured Existence
Cool, but requires me to have a creature in hand. Awesome with Squee.
Mortician Beetle, Rockslide Elemental and Scavenger Drake
I like them a lot, but they are nothing more than stupid beaters which the deck may or may not need. They sometimes win games though, or act as Abyss.
I've been playing with the deck for a while now (somewhere between 5 and 6 years), and I'm totally impressed how it turned out. My old Lyzolda deck was quite awesome, but while playing I noticed that (A) the black was doing the heavy lifting anyway, (B) the red was basically only there to deal damage, which meant that I had a couple of cards that were only useful when I was ready to win the game, and (C) as hard as I tried, Lyzolda (the way I envisioned her) was a little underpowered. I decided that I wanted to try it out as a mono black deck to see if I could finish games without the red damage. It was. Even better. On the one side it's more resilient, because there are less situational (red) cards. On the other side it's a lot more explosive because of Endrek's ability.
The basic premisse of the deck is combining self-recurring creatures like Bloodghast and Gravecrawler together with free sac-outlets like Goblin Bombardment and Carrion Feeder and stuff that benefits from creatures dying like Blood Artist, to create a synergistic Wrecking Ball.
What I really like about this kind of deck is that it relies solely on synergy. It's an engine. It's power is the combined parts of the deck, while it lacks any real haymakers. Sure, some of the engine oarts are good, maybe even TOO good (looking at you Goblin Bombardment..), but they only get rolling when combined with other stuff. And even then, most of the advantage it creates is small and steady instead of big and splashy.
The problem with small and steady in EDH is that it might just not be good enough to run with the big boys. All this carefully crafted engine work might just be Undone with the casting of one big, powerful spell (or said spell might create about the same effect..). Not to mention that parts of an engine are just that. Parts. Without other parts, they're worthless.
One of most common solutions to the above problem is to make the engine an infinite combo that wins on the spot, but that's exactly what I want to aVoid. I want synergy, not combo. Which I understand has a bit of overlap and what some might call combo, others call synergy.
So, will it work? Is it too clunky? Underpowered? Can it win without resorting to combo? Is it even pretentious to call this combo stuff synergy? Is it nothing more than a glass cannon?
I don't know, but wanted to find out. Just to see if what's in my head works out. It doesn't have to be all-powerful, but don't like to sit around all game waiting for that one piece to show up either. Preferably without too many tutors. So, that means redundancy.
For now I've selected black as my main color, because of it's sacrificial nature and self-recurring guys, with red as a second and maybe green as third. I don't really want to Savra as a general, which is nothing more than a personal preference: I don't want to play straight GB as a color combination. I do like GBR though, so that's fine. Other color combinations might work too, I don't know.
1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
Creatures
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Gravecrawler
1 Viscera Seer
1 Blood Artist
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Skirsdag High Priest
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Bloodghast
1 Nether Traitor
1 Withered Wretch
1 Coffin Queen
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Ophiomancer
1 Dross Harvester
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Kuon, Ogre Ascendant
1 Nantuko Husk
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Balthor the Defiled
1 Smothering Abomination
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Corpse Conoisseur
1 Shriekmaw
1 Fallen Angel
1 Ogre Slumlord
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Grave Titan
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Reaper from the Abyss
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Vampiric Rites
1 Bitterblossom
1 Gate to Phyrexia
1 Attrition
1 Dark Prophecy
1 Death Pit Offering
1 Tomstone Stairwell
1 Grave Pact
1 Black Market
1 Dictate of Erebos
Sorceries
1 Victimize
1 Damnation
1 Dread Return
1 Living Death
1 Army of the Damned
Instant
1 Plunge into Darkness
1 Corpse Dance
1 Wake the Dead
Artifacts
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Helm of Possesion
Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 High Market
1 Phyrexian Tower
29 Swamp
1 Temple of the False God
1 Unholy Grotto
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
The cards are basically divided into one or more categories (some cards have changed, but the explanation still holds):
Carrion Feeder, Disciple of Griselbrand, Phyrexian Ghoul, Nantuko Husk, Dimir House Guard, Fallen Angel, Phyrexian Plaguelord, Gate to Phyrexia, Attrition, Skullclamp (sort of), Altar of Dementia, Spawning Pit, Phyrexian Altar, Helm of Possesion, High Market, Phyrexian Tower, Vampiric Rites
The bread and butter of the deck. Without these, especially the ones that are free to use, the deck falls flat. Phyrexian Ghoul/Nantuko Husk/Carrion Feeder might look underpowered, but the fact that they are (A) creatures to trigger Endrek/stuff when it dies, (B) unlimited free sac outlets, (C) cheap, makes them very important to the deck. Note the variety of effects these sac outlets create: from lifegain to removal to mana.
once
Disciple of Bolas, Fleshbag Marauder, Diabolic Intent, Victimize, Dread Return, Ritual of the Machine, Plunge into Darkness
Same story as with the engine cards, but less important. Disciple of Bolas has very nice synergy with the above mentioned Phyrexian Ghoul and pals.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, Pawn of Ulamog, Sengir Autocrat, Ogre Slumlord, Grave Titan, Bitterblossom, Tomstone Stairwell, Army of the Damned
Spearheaded by Endrek, there are a couple of token producers that produce quite a lot of tokens in various ways. Tokens are one of the best ways to go crazy with your unlimited sacrifice outlets and a card that triggers from your creatures dying.
self-recurring creatures - unlimited
Gravecrawler, Reassembling Skeleton, Bloodghast, Nether Traitor, Endless Cockroaches.
I think these speak for themselves. Most of the time you only need 1 of these creatures each game, preferably Gravecrawler or Bloodghast because they are free. However, these creatures are so useful you don’t mind the redundancy and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. For example: Endless Cockroaches is the worst of the bunch, but makes the most tokens with Endrek and makes infinite mana/triggers with Phyrexian Altar. Also, you want more than one in the deck to be able to bounce back easier after graveyard removal.
self-recurring creatures – once
Corpse Conoisseur, Puppeteer Clique
When Lyzolda was the general, there were some more undying/persisting dudes here, but these were the only 2 left. Both pretty nice though: Corpse Conoisseur is an interesting tutor (the only acceptable type) that can either find one of the creatures in the above category, or a bomb if you have a recursion effect. Puppeteer Clique is one of a few ways for this deck to access effects it doesn’t have in the deck. It’s pretty great to steal someone’s Terastodon for example.
does something when dies
Solemn Simulacrum, Filth, Mindslicer,
No explanation needed for Solemn, I think. Filth is nice with Urborg to push potentially large Carrion Feeders through. Mindslicer is a mean card and probably on it’s way out.
The other pillar this deck rests on, finishing the unholy trinity of sac outlet/fodder/benefit. These are some of the cards that usually take a game over when going unanswered. The Grave Pacts essentially Plague Wind the table, Dark Prophecy/Harvester can draw your deck, etc.
2 cards to note in this category are Dark Prophecy and Dross Harvester. I think I can safely say that Dross Harvester is one of the best cards in the deck. It has a very unique and very needed effect. This is mainly because of Dark Prophecy being busted, but very scary as well. When this deck gets its gears going, Dark Prophecy will kill it. Blood Artist/Falkenrath Noble offset this as well, but the added lifegain is what sets Dross Harvester apart because it also makes sure you have a nice life buffer against the attacks that will come your way at this point. (This also is the reason that Disciple of Bolas and Disciple of Griselbrand are in the deck: lifegain can make a difference).
Easy feature for black decks. Especially good in this deck because this deck tends to kill its own men. Especially Balthor, Mikaeus and Living Death are nuts.
Dread Return is often a wild card. I’ve had numerous times where I had all kinds of creatures in play but was facing lethal if I passed the turn unless I found a certain creature (mostly Dross Harvester). If you have an Altar of Dementia in play, you can mill yourself to find the creature and Dread Return to bring it to play. Obviously, if that creature happens to be Balthor, it’s gravy.
Just adding a bit in area’s where the deck could use some help. Wretch is good when you’re planning on casting Living Death. Shriekmaw is very nice to recur. Massacre Wurm is a nice token sweeper and can actually kill the opponent (with or without the help of a Grave Pact), Damnation is a needed reset button and the lands are just nice to have. Note that I have a couple tutors to find these bullets. Also, with one of the carddraw engines in place, you see a lot of your deck.
Try the deck, it's a total blast to play.
If anyone wants to see the old Lyzolda deck, shoot me a PM.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
One thing I was thinking about: would Vengeful Dead be worth it? It obviously does exactly what I want, but I don't know how many zombies I would need to make it work better than, say, Hissing Iguanar.
Also, who has a good idea about what the most synergystic (sp?) way to destroy artifacts would be?
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
Nothing's 'too dumb'.
You know, I've never really looked at tainted aether as a sac outlet. What I don't like about the card is that it doesn't really synergize with my other sac outlets. If I have, for example, Goblin Bombardment and Attrition out, I can choose to which I want to sacrifice my Reassembling Skeleton. With Tainted Aether I don't have that flexibility, unless I want to sac a land.
Also, Tainted Aether doesn't produce an additional effect (it just makes me sac stuff) and I can't control timing of it (often I play a waiting game, just putting my creatures and sac outlets on the board and respond to whatever happens). The upside (forcing your opponents to sacrifice too when they play a creature), is something I'm afraid of will annoy people and make me a hate magnet.
Thanks for the suggestion though, it certainly is a card I hadn't thought of myself!
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
I agree and understand that it might not directly fit as the deck stands. With the introduction of Undying and punishment cards like Warstorm Surge give sneaky options for abuse. Couple that with persist for some out of no where plays.
And like you said, it might be annoying to other players, but it does put a stop to flooding tokens and or extremely rampy builds. That being said, as it is an enchantment, it will either slow up the other players boards for a few turns or die to naturalize. Either way, in the mean time, you get potential use out of it and time to establish better board control for your self as your other sac outlets will probably seem waaaayyyy less important targets.
Agreed, a makeover of the deck would make it a lot more useful.
As for building up my board, that's exactly what I worry about it will work against. So far in the games I've played, my board has a lot of creatures. As long as Tainted Aether is in play, I'm not able to add creatures either unless I sacrifice lands, stunting my own growth as well. It is very good vs tokens however, but I think I'd rather add Goblin Sharpshooter if tokens are a problem.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
1 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
Creatures(25):
1 Balthor the Defiled
1 Bloodghast
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Defiler of Souls
1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Nether Traitor
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Anathemancer
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Kathari Bomber
1 Hellhole Rats
1 Sanity Gnawers
1 Dusk Urchins
1 Braids Cabal Minion
1 Mindclaw Shaman
Enchantments(8):
1 Bitterblossom
1 Contamination
1 Gate to Phyrexia
1 Grave Pact
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Attrition
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Meekstone
1 Jeweled Amulet
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Rakdos Rite-Knife
1 Helm of Possession
1 Expedition Map
1 Trading Post
1 Lightning Greaves
Instants(5):
1 Chaos Warp
1 Terminate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Insidious Dreams
Sorcery(10):
1 Exsanguinate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Buried Alive
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Sign in Blood
1 Reprocess
1 Victimize
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
Lands(37):
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Graven Cairns
1 High Market
1 Kher Keep
1 Marsh Flats
6 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
10 Swamp
1 Tainted Peak
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Vesuva
My current list runs a bit more stax than you do I think
Probably gonna make room for
1 Goblin Recruiter
I'm running a few zombies like Fleshbag Marauder and Anathemancer that I think you can benefit from
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I'll comment later on some of the individual cards when I havr more time, but for now I was wondering: is your list for multiplayer or 1 on 1?
Indeed it seems you have a bit more stax approach. I imagine people you play with are fine with Contamination? A friend of mine has a really cool Endrek Sahr deck in which he used to run it too, and I have to say it's really unfun to play against.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
Also you said this but worldfire exiles and he would have no cards in hand to take damage from.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Wildfire
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
awkward..... ahah thanks for that fix
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I see your list is built for a more competitive meta. I might run some of them as well. Braids, Cabal Minion seems allright if I would need an effect like that, and maybe Defiler of Souls. Speaking of which, Defiler seems to appear in more Lyzolda lists. How good is it?
You also run a lot more 'good stuff': more tutors, more generic removal, more generic carddraw. Which obviously is pretty useful, and will make the deck better. I just like to play as much on theme as possible and don't have room for good cards, lol.
You have a couple creatures that seem subpar, especially Hellhole Rats and Sanity Gnawers. Are these any good? You said your playgroup is competitive and plays combo, but targeted unselective diScard does not seem that useful. Is it because they're black and red? Have you thought about Mindslash? It's targeted as well, but you can choose the cards. Even Sadistic Hypnotist seems good, especially with Endrek.
I don't really like Kathari Bomber either, but it's 2 creatures (at least), so I can see that happening.
You have Siege-Gang Commander, have you considered Sengir Autocrat for a burst of tokens/carddraw?
How is Silent Arbiter in this deck?
Oversold Cemetery is a card that's always hit or miss in my experience. In decks without a lot of creatures I don't have 4 creatures that often. Lategame it's very good, but get hit with graveyard removal (which with my deck will happen) and it's down again. I might reconsider it though, because it's cheap free recursion.
Is Rakdos Rite-Knife any good?
Oh, good call on Reprocess by the way. How does that play out? I don't have too many creatures out at the same time, but it IS good thematic carddraw.
And last: What's up with Jeweled Amulet?
-
About your adds:
I think you might need a bit more artifacts for Goblin Welder, and a bit more goblins for Goblin Recruiter for both to be really good. I'd add Welder first btw, it gives you something unique. Tutors are in the deck already and I can't spot any goblins worth searching for.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
also I had the knife for flavor reasons, but I took it out never really had a reason to play it!
Reprocess is sick, try it out for sure!
and jeweled amulet allows for turn 2 lyzolda as would sol ring
oh and I'm already looking to buy the autocrat, thanks!
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
@ Reprocess, will do! Carddraw is always welcome.
@ Jeweled Amulet: is that really necessary? I've never felt the need to rush her out. I'll play her early, but especially in multiplayer, I can't imagine this to really make a difference. Plus, I've enough early plays as is.
@ Autocrat: you're welcome
I changed my list somewhat, mostly because I just don't own all the cards (yet). Still been doing great. For example, I'm without Gravecrawler atm, but I haven't missed it really. I have so many self-recurring creatures that most of the time I can find one. Without tutoring.
I'll post my list up sometime this week.
I still love the amazing synergy of the deck. It seems to have answers to most problems, quite some defense and offense. I like it. I'm hoping that Return to Ravnica brings us some goodies.
Oh, by the way, have you tried Ritual of the Machine? Helm of Possession is one of my favorite, one of the most unique effects in the deck. Ritual isn't Helm by a long shot, but it might be good enough to include. Stealing Consecrated Sphinx, Primeval Titan, Sun Titan, Reveillark or something like Tradewind Rider sounds delicious.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
Jeweled amulet may not be necessary but I like it :') call me a loser but it's a cool card.
How have you been doing with enchantment removal? I was thinking chaos warp deserves a spot
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
On enchantments.. Well, I kinda conceded that point to be honest. Chaos Warp is good enough, but I figured that one enchantment removal spell wouldn't make that much difference and my Chaos Warp is in my mono red deck. Most enchantments don't really bother me as of yet and if they do I'm hoping they bother someone else as well. If I keep losing to enchantments, I might add some answers though.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
Spine of ish sah - since I'm running goblin welder I'll probably find room for this since he can abuse it
Karn liberated
Capricious Efreet
I'm also looking at tortured existence making my list
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Tortured Existance has been allright for me, but not spectaular and is probably one of the first cards coming out when I see something better.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
1 Goblin Welder
1 Manaforge Cinder
2 Akki Blizzard-Herder
2 Reassembling Skeleton
2 Bloodghast
2 Blood Artist
2 Goblin Recruiter
2 Nether Traitor
3 Anathemancer
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Kathari Bomber
3 Sanity Gnawers
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Dusk Urchins
4 Dimir House Guard
4 Goblin Gardner
4 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Murderous Redcap
4 Hellhole Rats
4 Balthor the Defiled
5 Siege-Gang Commander
5 Puppeteer Clique
5 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
5 Invader Parasite
5 Vengeful Pharaoh
5 Corpse Connoisseur
5 Mindclaw Shaman
6 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
6 Defiler of Souls
6 Deathbringer Thoctar
6 Flayer of the Hatebound
7 Butcher of Malakir
7 Sheoldred, the Whispering one
2 Bitterblossom
2 Gate to Phyrexia
2 Oversold Cemetery
3 Contamination
3 Necropotence
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Attrition
4 Grave Pact
7 Vicious Shadows
Artifacts(11):
0 Jeweled Amulet
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Expedition Map
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Rakdos Signet
2 Nim Deathmantle
3 Ashnod’s Altar
3 Mimic Vat
4 Trading Post
4 Helm of Possession
Sorceries(7):
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Sign in Blood
2x Exsanguinate
4 Reprocess
5 Reforge the Soul
9 Blasphemous Act
Instants(4):
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Entomb
4 Insidious Dreams
4 Wrecking Ball
1 tectonic edge
1 vesuva
1 Kher Keep
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Strip Mine
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Petrified Field
1 Deserted Temple
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Tainted Peak
1 Valakut, Molten Pinnacle
1 Phyrexian tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vault of Whispers
9 Swamp
5 Mountain
current list, looking at addin
waiting for new rav before buying all the cards I want for this, in case somethign gets pushed out for the new stuff
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
You need this?
Akki Blizzard-Herder
Lol, this is nice and janky. Nice with Phyrexian Reclamation I presume? By the way, where's your Crucible of Worlds? That card seems awesome in your build.
I know you're more Stax than me, but this was for multiplayer, right? The landdestroyers I can get behind somewhat, but is Sanity Gnawers really good enough? Have you tried Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker? Seems good with these guys.. And Lyzolda in general. (get it? general? lol, sorry)
Vengeful Pharaoh
How has this been working out?
Mindclaw Shaman
And this?
Trading Post
And this?
Reforge the Soul
Did you run out of Wheel of Fortune, or is there a good reason to be running this over Wheel? (Oh wait, I noticed Wheel in your 'to add' list)
Insidious Dreams
I'm not a fan of tutors in general (!), but unless you're trying to assemble a combo, isn't Diabolic Tutor better?
About your adds:
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed = awesome
fulminator mage = probably awesome
Phyrexian reclamation = very awesome
terminate = good roleplayer if you need it
void = awesome
spine of ish sah = good unique effect, albeit expensive, but good with Welder
mycosynth wellspring = not worth it imo. Only really good with Welder and Post, otherwise a bit meh.
chaos warp = good unique effect, awesome
stranglehold = awesome if you go for Stax
Wheel of Fortune = awesome, especially since you run Reforge already. (I don't run either and don't feel like I need it, but they are really good)
I'm waiting for RAV too, hoping there's some good on-theme stuff in there. Especially hoping new Rakdos will be awesome!
Offtopic: by the way, didn't you use to have a budget Slobad deck on cockatrice? Mind PM-ing me that so I can get some ideas? I'm pondering building a Slobad deck to stuff my fun red/artifact stuff in.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
To sanity gnawers I just like the card, hellhole rats is coming out, also I had kiki-jiki but had to trade it for my entomb, I'm getting another!
Vengeful Pharoah has been amazing, especially with trading post to discard it to gain life for my life costing cards.
Mindclaw is still testing but it's potentially amazing value, and good to copy.
Don't get me started on my main man trading post, helps to keep my life up (I'm often focused and I use it to gain an average of 20 life a game with squee, unearth cards, recursives like bloodghast) and the other effects are all relevent, favorite card in the deck.
I'm also getting Phyrexia's core to interact with spine and wellspring
Insidious can set up combos which is why I like it, but I like it also because it can stack my grave, also I love the art and want it in foil badly, foiling out the deck btw 34% complete >:D)
also I don't need manaforge cinder, but it's a beautiful foil, and it does help with manafixing
YOU KNOW MY SLOBAD LIST?
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sac-outlets
- Gate to Phyrexia
- Diabolic Intent
+ Fallen Angel
Both the cuts are cards I intend to add to the deck sooner or later, I just don't have them. What I did have was a nice minty Fallen Angel from Legends, so I added her. I think she might stay for a while. I like the threat she represents, I like the Legends art, I like that she's an unrestricted sac-outlet, I like that she's a creature.
Cards that benefit from creatures dying
- Hissing Iguanar
- Khabal Ghoul
+ Rage Thrower
+ Dross Harvester
Same reason for cuts, but both Hissing Iguanar and Khabal Ghoul might not make the deck after all. Khabal Ghoul might replace Rockslide Elemental when I find one. Iguanar might go in when I have some free slots and I need the damage. The Rage Thrower I threw in the deck to replace fills this need X2 however, so I probably won't need Iguanar. Dross Harvester, my god is this card awesome. I totally forgot about him, but boy can he gain life! It's a perfect card for a grindy deck like this one.
Creatures that don't mind dying
- Gravecrawler
+ Filth
Yeah, this is awkward. Gravecrawler should definitely be in the deck. The funny thing is though, I haven't missed it a bit. That said, when I find one for cheap it will go in.
Filth got added because I wanted to try him. So far he hasn't made waves. Probably because I don't need the reach. The name is awesome though.
Stuff
- Entomb
- Buried Alive
+ Kuon, Ogre Ascendant
+ Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Mana
+ Rakdos Signet
+ Wasteland
Wasteland seemed useful, Rakdos signet is foil.
- Badlands
- Lavaclaw Reaches
- Command Tower
- Jund Panorama
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- Dragonskull Summit
+ Terramorphic Expanse
+ 3 Swamp
+ Mountain
I didn't have all the duals yet, so this is my change for now. The mana is probably a bit worse, but not by a lot. Urborg, hmm, where's my Urborg, that should in..
I'm going to try and find a Balthor too.
Cards I'm on the fence about:
Ashen Ghoul and Brood of Cockroaches
The worst of the self-recurrers. One or both might come out when Gravecrawler gets added.
Filth
Don't know if I need the effect. Most of my creatures are small enough that attacking doesn't really make a difference. It's good with the creatures that get bigger though, so for now I want to try him out. Better when I find my damn Urborg...
Tortured Existence
Cool, but requires me to have a creature in hand. Awesome with Squee.
Mortician Beetle, Rockslide Elemental and Scavenger Drake
I like them a lot, but they are nothing more than stupid beaters which the deck may or may not need. They sometimes win games though, or act as Abyss.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios