Hey guys, just trying to build a competitive Jarad deck both for multiplayer and duel games. I'm using both banlists (fr/us) to be able to play this deck against anybody. I wanted to keep the deck a little bit budget, which explains why I'm not playing Polluted Delta for example. Still playing all the green fetches because of Dryad Arbor mostly and I want lands in my graveyard too for Life from the Loam. Cradle is just too good while expansive.
Put some good synergies here, Woodfall Primus and Mikaeus should be instant wins, Thawing with the Ravnica bounce land is good late game (mostly for multiplayer matchup) and I can get those with Realms Uncharted (or any of Petrified Field, Cradle, Urborg and Coffers).
The goal is basically to sac dudes quickly, do a lot of damage with Jarad's ability and reanimate some guys. Filth is here for swamp walk with Urborg which means that Jarad could just kill one guy in one swing.
Anyway, just give me your thoughts. Average CMC is 2.99 which is really low and that explains the really low land count (with all the mana dorks and don't forget Dryad Arbor in the creature category). Jarad wants to ramp to a turn 3 Terastodon if able but does also like to have creatures in the graveyard so yeah.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
How do you feel about Vengevine? It works very well with creatures like Gravecralwer and your general. Also, with a mana curve so low it'll be easy to return to the battlefield each turn just by playing your numerous mana dorks.
What about Reassembling Skeleton? It's a choice target for clamping, you're always happy to get him in the graveyard and you can do little tricks with Gravepact and Ashnod's Altar (Yes, cleaning the board gets this easy with him).
Shouldn't you be playing some bombs? There are numerous creatures in black especially that triggers when dyeing so they clean up the table, fill your graveyard for Jarad and get rid of your opponent's threats. As the list is right now, the way to deal with those threats are very limited. No Putrefy, no Maelstrom Pulse. The only thing you have early game is Pernicous Deed and you don't have any way to tutor it.
Also, what if your graveyard gets exiled? Do you have any way to recover from that? Can you be able to still killing even if your graveyard is getting wrecked by Rest In Peace, for exemple?
Finally, the number of lands is way too low. I'd understand you play 33 because of the number of mana dorks and the curve, but 31 is clearly a suicide. Furthermore, you don't play Mana Crypt, Sol ring nor Ancient Tomb because of the banlists so this number will surely be a problem.
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How do you feel about Vengevine? It works very well with creatures like Gravecralwer and your general. Also, with a mana curve so low it'll be easy to return to the battlefield each turn just by playing your numerous mana dorks.
But that does Vengevine ever does for me? Gravecrawler has synergy with Skullclamp and does everything Vengevine does when it's time to sac creatures to add mana or make opponents sac dudes too. A 4/3 haste body doesn't do that much of a difference in this deck, I'm mostly going to win matches by some Mikaeus shenanigans or a quick scoop after Terastodon did his job. Yes, Vengevine is better with Greater Good but those are only 2 cards. Gravecrawler is way easier to get back from my graveyard and I found out while playtesting the deck this morning that I don't cast that many creatures (I have so much ways to cheat them in instead). And I can't say this deck has really any aggro strategy right now.
What about Reassembling Skeleton? It's a choice target for clamping, you're always happy to get him in the graveyard and you can do little tricks with Gravepact and Ashnod's Altar (Yes, cleaning the board gets this easy with him).
This spot is actually taken by Bloodghast, so it's either one of the 2. If any of those would be a Zombie, that would be an easy choice but they're not. What I like about Bloodghast is the 2-power body to sac to Jarad, and he comes back for free. The only advantage Reassembling Skeleton has is his ability to block ground creatures and be usable multiple times a turn. I am definetely already considering it but hasn't decided for it yet.
Shouldn't you be playing some bombs? There are numerous creatures in black especially that triggers when dyeing so they clean up the table, fill your graveyard for Jarad and get rid of your opponent's threats. As the list is right now, the way to deal with those threats are very limited. No Putrefy, no Maelstrom Pulse. The only thing you have early game is Pernicous Deed and you don't have any way to tutor it.
Also, what if your graveyard gets exiled? Do you have any way to recover from that? Can you be able to still killing even if your graveyard is getting wrecked by Rest In Peace, for exemple?
Well, a turn-1 Relic of Progenitus obviously changes the whole gameplan but I'm just gonna force my opponent to crack it on turn 2 when trying to resolve something like Entomb + Reanimate (not searching for Terastodon but maybe something a little bit less threathening). So that's basically a 2 for 1 for my opponent but as in every graveyard strategy, you have to accept that this could be a little downside. Rest in Peace doesn't see a lot of play in EDH. And this deck is quite fast... I mean, my opponent has to have this in play by turn 3 if he really wants to screw me up.
Finally, the number of lands is way too low. I'd understand you play 33 because of the number of mana dorks and the curve, but 31 is clearly a suicide. Furthermore, you don't play Mana Crypt, Sol ring nor Ancient Tomb because of the banlists so this number will surely be a problem.
There are 32 lands, not 31 (Dryad Arbor is in the creature's category but it's still a land). I did some playtest this morning and I'm always flooded anyway. You have 7 cards in your starting hand, you want ~3 mana sources.
I play 32 lands, 9 creatures that tap for mana, 3 creatures that search for lands and then 3 land tutoring (Map, Crop and Realms) and 2 other artifacts ramp. Add to this list Life from the Loam (that can be tutored with Entomb or any of the other tutor in there), GSZ, Chord of Calling and remember that this deck only needs 4 mana to win (well, it can win with 2, but we need 4 to get to the top of the curve and to start playing huge threats).
Here are the first 2 starting hands I get while playtesting:
Really decent hand, lot of ramp. The Demon cost 7 and with only 2 lands, those permanents can tap for 5 mana by turn 3. All I need is to Entomb the right card depending on what I draw on turn 1, 2 and 3. If I really no lands and no useful permanents (that would be surprising?), I still can Entomb for Life from the Loam and start dredging a few lands. The Demon can then search for Reanimate or the likes. Really depends. This hand is probably not a turn-3 or even turn-4 win but I think you still have a plan, and if you play with Paris partial mulligan rules, you could mull the Demon, Bloom Tender and probably the shock land.
I forgot about Regrowth + fetchland. Buried Alive + Entomb is obviously a bit redundant, I would probably mull Entomb and Exsanguinate, all I need is to find Genesis with some other small creatures with Buried Alive to get things going but I'm missing a turn-1 acceleration to play Buried Alive on turn 2 (playing it on turn-3 is kinda slow for competitive matters).
I might remove Exsanguinate, already playing Profane Command which does the job of at least knocking one opponent if I really have that much mana for X.
Well, 2 tutors? With 2 lands and a 1-drop and then a 2-drop? So, turn 3 it looks like... Forest, Cradle, Gravecrawler and Tender that tap for 5 mana overall with 2 tutor up? That could hardly be better, except for a fetch land instead of the Forest and Deathrite instead of Gravecrawler, but this hand is still nuts, I could just tutor Entomb on turn 1 and then Terastodon with Entomb on turn 2 (+ Gravecrawler in play and turn 3 I go off with Demonic + Reanimate (in a duel situation obviously, in multiplayer games you want to take more time establishing your board presence and I think Mikaeus will do its job in the long term).
In short, I don't think I really need much more mana because even with only 1 land, it's usually enough, and the fact that I still play around ~45 mana sources with a lot of tutor for more if needed feels enough for me. I got some better hands in my playtest earlier this morning than the 4 above, but I don't feel replacing a spell with any mana source in the above hands would help me to win (I could be wrong).
Now considering to replace Exsanguinate for Reassembling Skeleton for a more consistent lategame plan with my general. Probably going to remove Hero's Downfall too, just need to find something more useful in this spot. Maybe going to follow your advice, Jolote, and add Oblivion Stone or Damnation, but I don't feel really excited about more sweepers because I think this deck has already a lot to deal with troublesome permanents late game (and just don't care early turns because I would usually be dropping the biggest threats anyway).
Thanks for your ideas and sharing your thoughts! If I miss any better sweeper than the O-Stone and Damnation, I would like to know. There could be some really good creatures that I'm missing too, feel free to let me know and I will try to squeeze a spot for those if it's enough good.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
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1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Gravecrawler
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Bloodghast
1 Bloom Tender
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Priest of Titania
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Viridian Emissary
1 Coffin Queen
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Wood Elves
1 Filth
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Savra, Queen of the Golgari
1 Genesis
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Terastodon
1 Woodfall Primus
Artifacts:6
1 Expedition Map
1 Skullclamp
1 Golgari Signet
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Mimic Vat
1 Birthing Pod
Sorceries:11
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Reanimate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Exsanguinate
1 Life from the Loam
1 Profane Command
1 Regrowth
1 Buried Alive
1 Jarad's Orders
1 Natural Order
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Chord of Calling
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Realms Uncharted
Enchantments:10
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Necromancy
1 Necropotence
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Grave Pact
1 Greater Good
Others:1
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands:31
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Deserted Temple
4 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Petrified Field
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Swamp
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Hey guys, just trying to build a competitive Jarad deck both for multiplayer and duel games. I'm using both banlists (fr/us) to be able to play this deck against anybody. I wanted to keep the deck a little bit budget, which explains why I'm not playing Polluted Delta for example. Still playing all the green fetches because of Dryad Arbor mostly and I want lands in my graveyard too for Life from the Loam. Cradle is just too good while expansive.
Put some good synergies here, Woodfall Primus and Mikaeus should be instant wins, Thawing with the Ravnica bounce land is good late game (mostly for multiplayer matchup) and I can get those with Realms Uncharted (or any of Petrified Field, Cradle, Urborg and Coffers).
The goal is basically to sac dudes quickly, do a lot of damage with Jarad's ability and reanimate some guys. Filth is here for swamp walk with Urborg which means that Jarad could just kill one guy in one swing.
Anyway, just give me your thoughts. Average CMC is 2.99 which is really low and that explains the really low land count (with all the mana dorks and don't forget Dryad Arbor in the creature category). Jarad wants to ramp to a turn 3 Terastodon if able but does also like to have creatures in the graveyard so yeah.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
What about Reassembling Skeleton? It's a choice target for clamping, you're always happy to get him in the graveyard and you can do little tricks with Gravepact and Ashnod's Altar (Yes, cleaning the board gets this easy with him).
Shouldn't you be playing some bombs? There are numerous creatures in black especially that triggers when dyeing so they clean up the table, fill your graveyard for Jarad and get rid of your opponent's threats. As the list is right now, the way to deal with those threats are very limited. No Putrefy, no Maelstrom Pulse. The only thing you have early game is Pernicous Deed and you don't have any way to tutor it.
Also, what if your graveyard gets exiled? Do you have any way to recover from that? Can you be able to still killing even if your graveyard is getting wrecked by Rest In Peace, for exemple?
Finally, the number of lands is way too low. I'd understand you play 33 because of the number of mana dorks and the curve, but 31 is clearly a suicide. Furthermore, you don't play Mana Crypt, Sol ring nor Ancient Tomb because of the banlists so this number will surely be a problem.
Certified L1 Magic Judge - Feel free to ask me any questions by PM!
But that does Vengevine ever does for me? Gravecrawler has synergy with Skullclamp and does everything Vengevine does when it's time to sac creatures to add mana or make opponents sac dudes too. A 4/3 haste body doesn't do that much of a difference in this deck, I'm mostly going to win matches by some Mikaeus shenanigans or a quick scoop after Terastodon did his job. Yes, Vengevine is better with Greater Good but those are only 2 cards. Gravecrawler is way easier to get back from my graveyard and I found out while playtesting the deck this morning that I don't cast that many creatures (I have so much ways to cheat them in instead). And I can't say this deck has really any aggro strategy right now.
This spot is actually taken by Bloodghast, so it's either one of the 2. If any of those would be a Zombie, that would be an easy choice but they're not. What I like about Bloodghast is the 2-power body to sac to Jarad, and he comes back for free. The only advantage Reassembling Skeleton has is his ability to block ground creatures and be usable multiple times a turn. I am definetely already considering it but hasn't decided for it yet.
I remove most of those targeted removal from my list and decided to add Hero's Downfall at the end. Creatures shouldn't really be a problem thanks to Grave Pact and Savra, Queen of the Golgari. Non-creature permanents shouldn't be a problem either with Terastodon and Woodfall Primus. Actually, I should probably remove Hero's Downfall for Reassembling Skeleton. Look at my playtest's results below for more on this.
Well, a turn-1 Relic of Progenitus obviously changes the whole gameplan but I'm just gonna force my opponent to crack it on turn 2 when trying to resolve something like Entomb + Reanimate (not searching for Terastodon but maybe something a little bit less threathening). So that's basically a 2 for 1 for my opponent but as in every graveyard strategy, you have to accept that this could be a little downside. Rest in Peace doesn't see a lot of play in EDH. And this deck is quite fast... I mean, my opponent has to have this in play by turn 3 if he really wants to screw me up.
There are 32 lands, not 31 (Dryad Arbor is in the creature's category but it's still a land). I did some playtest this morning and I'm always flooded anyway. You have 7 cards in your starting hand, you want ~3 mana sources.
I play 32 lands, 9 creatures that tap for mana, 3 creatures that search for lands and then 3 land tutoring (Map, Crop and Realms) and 2 other artifacts ramp. Add to this list Life from the Loam (that can be tutored with Entomb or any of the other tutor in there), GSZ, Chord of Calling and remember that this deck only needs 4 mana to win (well, it can win with 2, but we need 4 to get to the top of the curve and to start playing huge threats).
Here are the first 2 starting hands I get while playtesting:
Really decent hand, lot of ramp. The Demon cost 7 and with only 2 lands, those permanents can tap for 5 mana by turn 3. All I need is to Entomb the right card depending on what I draw on turn 1, 2 and 3. If I really no lands and no useful permanents (that would be surprising?), I still can Entomb for Life from the Loam and start dredging a few lands. The Demon can then search for Reanimate or the likes. Really depends. This hand is probably not a turn-3 or even turn-4 win but I think you still have a plan, and if you play with Paris partial mulligan rules, you could mull the Demon, Bloom Tender and probably the shock land.
I forgot about Regrowth + fetchland. Buried Alive + Entomb is obviously a bit redundant, I would probably mull Entomb and Exsanguinate, all I need is to find Genesis with some other small creatures with Buried Alive to get things going but I'm missing a turn-1 acceleration to play Buried Alive on turn 2 (playing it on turn-3 is kinda slow for competitive matters).
I might remove Exsanguinate, already playing Profane Command which does the job of at least knocking one opponent if I really have that much mana for X.
Another example:
Well, 2 tutors? With 2 lands and a 1-drop and then a 2-drop? So, turn 3 it looks like... Forest, Cradle, Gravecrawler and Tender that tap for 5 mana overall with 2 tutor up? That could hardly be better, except for a fetch land instead of the Forest and Deathrite instead of Gravecrawler, but this hand is still nuts, I could just tutor Entomb on turn 1 and then Terastodon with Entomb on turn 2 (+ Gravecrawler in play and turn 3 I go off with Demonic + Reanimate (in a duel situation obviously, in multiplayer games you want to take more time establishing your board presence and I think Mikaeus will do its job in the long term).
One last hand:
It looks like a turn-3 Terastodon to me. Let's see what I draw (I didn't thin the deck with the fetch, that's purely statistical anyway)...
Turn 1: Mikaeus, the Unhallowed (not really a good draw)
Turn 2: Jarad's Order (that's fine if the Natural Order plan doesn't work)
Turn 3: Viridian Emissary
If the Natural Order plan fails, Jarad's Order is going to give me another plan.
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In short, I don't think I really need much more mana because even with only 1 land, it's usually enough, and the fact that I still play around ~45 mana sources with a lot of tutor for more if needed feels enough for me. I got some better hands in my playtest earlier this morning than the 4 above, but I don't feel replacing a spell with any mana source in the above hands would help me to win (I could be wrong).
Now considering to replace Exsanguinate for Reassembling Skeleton for a more consistent lategame plan with my general. Probably going to remove Hero's Downfall too, just need to find something more useful in this spot. Maybe going to follow your advice, Jolote, and add Oblivion Stone or Damnation, but I don't feel really excited about more sweepers because I think this deck has already a lot to deal with troublesome permanents late game (and just don't care early turns because I would usually be dropping the biggest threats anyway).
Thanks for your ideas and sharing your thoughts! If I miss any better sweeper than the O-Stone and Damnation, I would like to know. There could be some really good creatures that I'm missing too, feel free to let me know and I will try to squeeze a spot for those if it's enough good.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.