Been playing a Kaalia deck similar to Blackjack68's (he has comments farther down that actually refer to the previous version of this deck, with a link to his 'punisher' style deck) and it's worked, but I decided to go back to Kaalia's roots and go for fast and destructive. Specifically I'm looking at destroying lands after getting Kaalia into play with some artifact mana.
I'm iffy on the Sunforger package. It's a fantastic engine, but might be a little slow for where I want to take this deck and I could just pack more destruction. Gameplan is to drop Kaalia early, if I can protect her great, but no real worries if she dies. In fact I might let her go to the graveyard and recur her.
I'm trying to keep it simple and streamlined, going after the idea of a 'pressure deck' as heard on the Commandercast blog. At the risk of flaming out, put threats out quickly that need to be answered. Keep your opponents busy dealing with what you put out, so that when you're ready to start dropping the fatties with Kaalia and destroy their lands, they have no real board presence.
021512
-1 Warstorm Surge +1 Luminarch Ascension
-1 Insidious Dreams +1 Keldon Firebombers
-1 Promise of Power +1 Sign in Blood
-1 In the Web of War +1 Rings of Brighthearth
This deck needs to hit early and I can't always get that to happen. Part of it might be my skill in mulliganing, and part of it might be the balance of cards I have. The land base is as good as I can afford right now. I realize Crucible of Worlds and some fetchlands would be nice with the land destruction theme, but Crucible is $$$. Looking for suggestions on balancing the ratio of cards performing certain functions, and also specific card replacements.
The balance between Aggro/Fatties and Punishments is a really interesting line to walk with these decks. I doubt there is a "correct" or "optimal" balance, but it's fun to play around with. I'm down to 6 Angeldemondragons now and I'll probably lose one or two more. Punishments are like tattoos, every time you get one you want another.
I think Quicksilver Amulet is a good idea as a backup fatty plan.
Lol, Corpse Dance + Hidetsugu is such a beating, especially with Wound Reflection. I've got all 3 in my deck, but I haven't had the chance to abuse that combo yet. You might work on getting Phyrexian Tower and High Market as additional ways to sac something off after you've corpse danced it.
I probably wouldn't sweat the Painful Quandary. I've enjoyed playing it, but it underperforms a lot since it gives a choice.
My friend built a Kaalia deck recently and he just ended up throwing a gazillion demons, dragons, and angels in there but he has yet to play it. I think he will be less than excited with his results at this point. You have a much different strategy in mind here, and I like it. However with black's HUGE card draw potential, you could certainly get the pieces to dish out the damage much sooner if you put in some of that.
Ambition's Cost and the other card that does the exact same thing with the different name (it's too early to remember) are my two recommendations. Memory Jar would be interesting if you had Kaalia out and no Demons, Angels, or Dragons left in hand.
Thanks for the comments. Phyrexian Tower is on the buy list. High Market is a little spendier. I suppose the reason lands are the most expensive cards is because they're so good. nurse.jason, I have a copy of Promise of Power which might be the other card you're talking about, I just decided to wait to see if I need it with both Phyrexian Arena and the Innistrad Arena on a stick Bloodgift Demon.
What I love about Bloodgift Demon is there's always a player with a couple of life left hanging on... and you can just say "Draw a card!"
^^ I am continually amazed at how many games are decided by a single point or two. I think given his ability and "demon" type, he's pretty much auto-include even in my build with fewer creatures. I'll just have to find some room for him somewhere.
Erratic Portal should be in every Kaalia deck. Being able to bounce your own creatures in non-blue is rare and with her it's really powerful. I've seen a few Kaalia players sit there attacking with a 2/2 flyer, an angel, and no cards in hand... Portal makes it possible to abuse her even more.
I also think that having 10-12 mana rocks with 35 lands might give you a little faster jump. If you aren't swinging on turn 3-4 and cheating big 'uns into play people should be able to stop you. I am biased of course, but I think that I would keep my Oros mana base if I were to make Kaalia (in sig).
Candles of Leng is an obvious switch. I just hadn't seen that one before. Adios Jayemdae!
If my draw isn't enough, I might include more of the lifeloss draw cards, but I'm already using punishments (manabarbs) that'll hit me as well as the rest of the table. Granted War's Toll and Wound Reflection should make it hurt others more.
I might go the mana rocks/LD/aggro route if I don't like how this deck plays. But I'm already honing Jor Kadeen to draw hate in that way, so I thought I'd try Blackjack's strategy of holding back, dropping nasty enchantments, and using Kaalia as a finisher. It'll still make everyone grumble, but I guess I'm okay with that.
By the way Galspanic, seeing Reynolds' illustrations all lined up like that is freakin hilarious. The dude must have some weird fetish. It's not that it's a horrible pose, but I hear variety is the spice of life.
Played this deck a few times last night. I think I tried dropping my punishment cards too early because they got hated out and made me an immediate target. Manabarbson turn 4 got me the attention of the whole table. Need to practice patience and sit back a little more. Kaalia actually won me a 5 player game where I didn't drop any punishments at all. I just wasn't drawing into them, and I had Quicksilver Amulet on the table by turn 4 and a handful of angels. So I just started dropping them. Savage Beating is never leaving this deck. A seeming 9 points of damage in the air doesn't get anyone worried, and then you swing for 36...
Played this deck a few times last night. I think I tried dropping my punishment cards too early because they got hated out and made me an immediate target. Manabarbson turn 4 got me the attention of the whole table. Need to practice patience and sit back a little more. Kaalia actually won me a 5 player game where I didn't drop any punishments at all. I just wasn't drawing into them, and I had Quicksilver Amulet on the table by turn 4 and a handful of angels. So I just started dropping them. Savage Beating is never leaving this deck. A seeming 9 points of damage in the air doesn't get anyone worried, and then you swing for 36...
Go easy on the punishments early. Spiteful Visions, Zo-zu, little stuff like that's ok. The big ones like Barbs start the war.
I like the deck. It's very similar to mine, except you have sunforger and more LD, and I have more beatdown cards. I'm starting to lean towards more mass LD as all of my beatdown cards are 6 cmc. I almost never like seeing them in my hand. It also fits her theme because she seems to love destruction, which these colors are great at.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Black Market is pretty sweet. I think it'll slot into my Karador deck better because I have a lot of sac effects in it. In my meta there aren't usually a lot of creatures on the battlefield, aside from mine, and I'm almost ready to take out all recursion since someone is always ready to exile a card the moment it hits the graveyard. Braid of Fire might be better as a source of mana that doesn't die to land destruction.
Part of my struggle is coming up with a good balance of creatures, ramp, and removal. My initial troop of 20 Angels/Demons/Dragons doesn't work for my meta. I need to be able to remove crippling enchantments and draw out counterspells in order to accomplish my actual game plan. I can't say enough good things about Sunforger. Some people don't like how much messing around you have to do with it, but I find the engine a lot of fun to play with.
Part of my struggle is coming up with a good balance of creatures, ramp, and removal. My initial troop of 20 Angels/Demons/Dragons doesn't work for my meta. I need to be able to remove crippling enchantments and draw out counterspells in order to accomplish my actual game plan. I can't say enough good things about Sunforger. Some people don't like how much messing around you have to do with it, but I find the engine a lot of fun to play with.
I feel the same. I hate having either too much removal, or too many a/d/d's in my hand, especially my opening hand. This deck can die without a tutor or card draw because the synergies are not as strong as other decks. It's annoying, but when it does work, it works well.
I can see a sunforger closing up a hole of not having the right removal in my hand at the right time. It's just hard to fit into the deck at this point. It also doesn't do anything for me when I have too much removal in my hand. Maybe I'll give it a go soon.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Played this deck a few times last night. I think I tried dropping my punishment cards too early because they got hated out and made me an immediate target. Manabarbson turn 4 got me the attention of the whole table. Need to practice patience and sit back a little more. Kaalia actually won me a 5 player game where I didn't drop any punishments at all. I just wasn't drawing into them, and I had Quicksilver Amulet on the table by turn 4 and a handful of angels. So I just started dropping them. Savage Beating is never leaving this deck. A seeming 9 points of damage in the air doesn't get anyone worried, and then you swing for 36...
I like it! Savage Beating will be added. I feel similarly to Sudden Spoiling. Must include. Has won me several games.
My trouble with this deck has been balancing the card draw/utility cards with enough fatties to have something to drop. I'm more of a fan of draw than tutors, generally, though I always have at least two tutors.
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Current EDH Generals:
Animar (Combo >Eldrazi)
Drana (Vamp tribal + big mana)
Vorel (WiP)
Arcanis (Stealy/Combo)
Toshiro (removal.Dek)
Thada (Stealy/ramp/control)
Derevi (WiP)
Kaalia (Fatty)
Teysa (Combo)
Karador (ETB/LTB Reanimate)
Mirko Vosk (Land grind/mill)
Geth (Discard/Gravecasting)
Rhada (Pro blue homebrew)
Oloro (Pillow fort mp)
And about 10 more...
Draw versus tutors is an interesting topic. Tutors thin your deck and turn it into more of a toolbox. If you have a tutor in hand and need a dragon, or you need spot removal, or a sweeper, you're all set. Then again, you're generally trading a card for a card. Promise of Power or Syphon Mind or the awesome Dragon Mage refreshes your entire game, giving you multiple options to choose from. I think tutors are needed more in a deck that needs card x, y, and z to win, and draw is great in a deck like Kaalia where you need dragons and removal, but you have plenty of both so drawing cards is likely to get you what you need. I feel like my deck works best when I have two draw engines like Phyrexian Arena and Bloodgift Demon out. 3 cards a turn really fuels your game.
I'm iffy on the Sunforger package. It's a fantastic engine, but might be a little slow for where I want to take this deck and I could just pack more destruction. Gameplan is to drop Kaalia early, if I can protect her great, but no real worries if she dies. In fact I might let her go to the graveyard and recur her.
I'm trying to keep it simple and streamlined, going after the idea of a 'pressure deck' as heard on the Commandercast blog. At the risk of flaming out, put threats out quickly that need to be answered. Keep your opponents busy dealing with what you put out, so that when you're ready to start dropping the fatties with Kaalia and destroy their lands, they have no real board presence.
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Angels
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Karmic Guide (recursion)
1 Aegis Angel
1 Angel of Despair (removal)
1 Reya Dawnbringer (recursion, Yosei lock)
1 Chancellor of the Annex
Demons
1 Rune-Scarred Demon (tutor)
1 Bloodgift Demon (card draw)
1 Reaper From the Abyss
Dragons
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Flameblast Dragon
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Eternal Dragon (mana fixing)
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Hoarding Dragon (tutor for Sunforger)
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Dragon Mage
Tutor
(Rune-Scarred Demon)
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Liliana Vess
Mana Fix
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Land Tax
Artifact Mana
1 Sol Ring
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Mind Stone (card draw)
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Khalni Gem
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Winter Orb
1 Armageddon
1 Catastrophe
1 Impending Disaster
1 Keldon Firebombers
Protect Kaalia
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Erratic Portal (also good for bouncing Angel of Despair)
1 Mother of Runes
Sunforger Package
(includes enlightened tutor)
1 Sunforger
1 Path to Exile
1 Oblation
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Ghostway
1 Sulfurous Blast
1 Return to Dust
1 Lapse of Certainty
Recursion
(includes Karmic Guide and Reya Dawnbringer, also trying to fit in Necromancy)
1 Unburial Rites
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Animate Dead
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Sun Titan
Card Draw
(includes Bloodgift Demon, need to make room for Promise of Power)
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Faithless Looting
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Other Tricks
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Quicksilver Amulet (Kaalia #2)
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
7 Plains
7 Swamp
6 Mountain
1 Graven Cairns
1 Winding Canyons
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 High Market
1 Vault of the Archangel
Change Log
021512
-1 Warstorm Surge +1 Luminarch Ascension
-1 Insidious Dreams +1 Keldon Firebombers
-1 Promise of Power +1 Sign in Blood
-1 In the Web of War +1 Rings of Brighthearth
This deck needs to hit early and I can't always get that to happen. Part of it might be my skill in mulliganing, and part of it might be the balance of cards I have. The land base is as good as I can afford right now. I realize Crucible of Worlds and some fetchlands would be nice with the land destruction theme, but Crucible is $$$. Looking for suggestions on balancing the ratio of cards performing certain functions, and also specific card replacements.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I think Quicksilver Amulet is a good idea as a backup fatty plan.
Lol, Corpse Dance + Hidetsugu is such a beating, especially with Wound Reflection. I've got all 3 in my deck, but I haven't had the chance to abuse that combo yet. You might work on getting Phyrexian Tower and High Market as additional ways to sac something off after you've corpse danced it.
I probably wouldn't sweat the Painful Quandary. I've enjoyed playing it, but it underperforms a lot since it gives a choice.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Ambition's Cost and the other card that does the exact same thing with the different name (it's too early to remember) are my two recommendations. Memory Jar would be interesting if you had Kaalia out and no Demons, Angels, or Dragons left in hand.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
^^ I am continually amazed at how many games are decided by a single point or two. I think given his ability and "demon" type, he's pretty much auto-include even in my build with fewer creatures. I'll just have to find some room for him somewhere.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Why Candles when you can run quality card draw by B? Promise of Power & Moonlight Bargain are great refills, and Ambition's Cost, and Ancient Craving if you feel you want a little more. Of course our favorite ISD Demon is cool, and if you want some more you can try Graveborn Muse too.
Also, Skeletal Scrying is great instant speed draw X, as can be Necrologia.
I'd avoid Dark Confidant and Dark Tutelage like the plague with a Kaalia deck though. They seem really harmful to your winning ambitions.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I also think that having 10-12 mana rocks with 35 lands might give you a little faster jump. If you aren't swinging on turn 3-4 and cheating big 'uns into play people should be able to stop you. I am biased of course, but I think that I would keep my Oros mana base if I were to make Kaalia (in sig).
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
If my draw isn't enough, I might include more of the lifeloss draw cards, but I'm already using punishments (manabarbs) that'll hit me as well as the rest of the table. Granted War's Toll and Wound Reflection should make it hurt others more.
I might go the mana rocks/LD/aggro route if I don't like how this deck plays. But I'm already honing Jor Kadeen to draw hate in that way, so I thought I'd try Blackjack's strategy of holding back, dropping nasty enchantments, and using Kaalia as a finisher. It'll still make everyone grumble, but I guess I'm okay with that.
By the way Galspanic, seeing Reynolds' illustrations all lined up like that is freakin hilarious. The dude must have some weird fetish. It's not that it's a horrible pose, but I hear variety is the spice of life.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Go easy on the punishments early. Spiteful Visions, Zo-zu, little stuff like that's ok. The big ones like Barbs start the war.
Savage Beating.. I know, aint it awesome!
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Part of my struggle is coming up with a good balance of creatures, ramp, and removal. My initial troop of 20 Angels/Demons/Dragons doesn't work for my meta. I need to be able to remove crippling enchantments and draw out counterspells in order to accomplish my actual game plan. I can't say enough good things about Sunforger. Some people don't like how much messing around you have to do with it, but I find the engine a lot of fun to play with.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I feel the same. I hate having either too much removal, or too many a/d/d's in my hand, especially my opening hand. This deck can die without a tutor or card draw because the synergies are not as strong as other decks. It's annoying, but when it does work, it works well.
I can see a sunforger closing up a hole of not having the right removal in my hand at the right time. It's just hard to fit into the deck at this point. It also doesn't do anything for me when I have too much removal in my hand. Maybe I'll give it a go soon.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
I like it! Savage Beating will be added. I feel similarly to Sudden Spoiling. Must include. Has won me several games.
My trouble with this deck has been balancing the card draw/utility cards with enough fatties to have something to drop. I'm more of a fan of draw than tutors, generally, though I always have at least two tutors.
Animar (Combo >Eldrazi)
Drana (Vamp tribal + big mana)
Vorel (WiP)
Arcanis (Stealy/Combo)
Toshiro (removal.Dek)
Thada (Stealy/ramp/control)
Derevi (WiP)
Kaalia (Fatty)
Teysa (Combo)
Karador (ETB/LTB Reanimate)
Mirko Vosk (Land grind/mill)
Geth (Discard/Gravecasting)
Rhada (Pro blue homebrew)
Oloro (Pillow fort mp)
And about 10 more...
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck: