This is a midly competitive Stonebrow list I'd like to build.
It's aim isn't to be super broken, but I'd like it to be exceptionally strong and explosive.
I've favoured "goodstuff" over theme in most cases, so I'm not looking to cram the list with as many tramplers as possible, but there are plenty of good cards that are on theme anyway.
- Squee, Goblin Nabob
- Skullclamp
- Sword of Feast and Famine
- Bear Umbra
- Nature's Will
- Sword of Vengeance
- Fanning the Flames
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Hoarding Dragon
+ Scavenging Ooze
+ Sword of Fire and Ice
+ Sword of Light and Shadow
+ Chaos Warp
+ Lightning Greaves
+ Fires of Yavimaya
+ Comet Storm
+ Vines of Vastwood
+ Stonewood Invocation
Decree also seems like random LD...unless you do plan to use it as a total reset.
I think the list should be alright for Breakers. Everything I could return is solid value mostly. The ramp might be a bit of a downer late game, but I could include Panglacial Wurm if it was a problem.
Decree is random, but I don't want to jam the list with LD. If I hit it, and it wins me a game, so be it. I see your point though, it may be better to get another "finisher" in here of the same style I have already for redundancy.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Stonebrow is a beating. My bro runs it as his main and god does it hurt.
This is a very solid list. Most people who build Stonebrow (including my bro, at first) tend to overcommit to his ability, just putting in fat tramplers. I like the direction you've taken with the deck.
If price is not an issue, I would work to getting both Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Light and Shadow in here. They absolutely murder people when attached to one of your tramplers and the draw and recursion are extremely beneficial to the deck as a whole. More fire power + utility = good.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
First list in awhile that's gotten some attention. Will reply in more depth later in the day when I have time.
Some food for thought:
I need to replace Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger in the list. Apparently my meta has a deep seated hatred for this card whereby if he doesn't win you the game in the range of say the next turn, everyone at the table will gun for you. His nick name is Boringclux. Need something exceptionally solid to fill his shoes. I might keep him in the theoretical list, because I believe he is a optimal choice over a meta call.
I also might have to cut the infinites out, but not sure yet. Have a few ideas to exploit the list the same way, but without necessarily going infinite.
EDIT with more responses:
@Molten Disaster suggestion from Orpheos, good suggestion, but global damage can be scary in a race. I'd hate to be looking for a finisher, drawing this and not be able to use it because it puts me in a equally fragile position.
@Dramaturtle
I agree, both Swords are good, but I don't want to overload on non-threats, so what do you cut into? I could possibly cut Sword of Vengeance for one, which, I'm not sure.
I definitely want to fit in Fires of Yavimaya. I hadn't initially valued haste high enough, but after watching a few games last night where people continually played threats that were answered almost immediately, my opinion changed quite a bit. I've always considered Fires itself a bit underwhelming, but what I'm appreciating now is it's CMC cost. It comes down before turn 5 (Stonebrow time) and later increases the chance I can play it and a threat simultaneously. I wish it didn't clash with the Cultivate -> Stonebrow flow, but I have to consider when doing that, I can go Cultivate -> Fires/In the Web of War -> Stonebrow and still be swinging on the same turn (turn 5).
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
@Molten Disaster suggestion from Orpheos, good suggestion, but global damage can be scary in a race. I'd hate to be looking for a finisher, drawing this and not be able to use it because it puts me in a equally fragile position.
IDK for me, when I play this kind of deck i just go balls to the walls aggro. its not meant to win necessarily, its meant to turn guys sideways and DO things other than hoard resources. its more of a break from the tryharding that my other decks do.
in my stonebrow deck i value haste over pretty much everything. it is EXTREMELY important. it essentially adds an ETB ability to all your dudes.
i run lightning greaves, swiftfoot boots, fires of yavimaya, urabrask, in the web of war, and most importantly, hall of the bandit lord. i never regret having redundant forms of haste. because if they ever kill my haste provider I want it back immediately.
also something that has served me extremely well as another "haste" source is warstorm surge. I love playing it with rampaging baloths and making my own valakut. I have also finished a game by terastadon-ing my own lands to 18 them and then swinging in with haste.
No rage reflection? You need that, IMO, as someone else who plays stonebrow- 6 cmc double strike is awesome. I don't think that Squee does enough at all, and I think that instigator gang could be interesting. At the very least he gives guys +1/+0, and forces players to kill him or play around him- he's one of the cards I'm testing at the moment.
Rage Reflection and/or Gratuitous Violence are cards I’m stumped on. Are they better or worse then the cards that provide extra attack steps (possibly World at War?) which are the cards they have the most overlap with? I’m just not sure how many damage multipliers I want to run without cutting into everything else the list can do.
Packleader is always an excellent addition, I'd say, giving you repeatable draw, as is Mimic vat for recursion shenanigans (Ever seen a Primus on a vat? 'tis fun!). Primordial hydra is a card that your opponents HAVE to deal with, because he gets out of hand really, really fast.While I like the charger, I find that the other extra combat phase stuff just doesn't quite do enough, and I'd personally drop most of your dragons for big tramply stuff, as well as Ubarask and spawnwrithe (spawnwrithe seems too small to be able to connect, I think).
Packleader gets a pass because it requires me to over extend to get lots of value out of it. This list is trying to do more with less, then the vice versa.
Primordial Hydra is worth looking at, along with a lot of other fatties you’ve mentioned as well.
I don’t think I’ll cut Urabrask, haste is awesome and his second effect is pretty strong too.
I like the Dragons, they fall into the “more for less” category. Hoarding Dragon is being watched though.
Yeah, some people are like that with Vorinclex- the metagame I was in initially hated him, but was fine while I wasn't being a dick with him, although nobody was happy to see him. Dark or Blightsteel colossi may be decent ideas for big dudes to replace him, or you could go with caged sun et al for the ramp if you need it by then.
I'd say that there's enough stuff like Moldgraf, weatherseed treefolk, rampaging baloths etc. that you can fit in as efficiant beaters with extra value tacked on, though
Agree that I’ll find something, reviewing all the suggestions so far.
Response to DramaTurtle
Okay, upon second inspection, I would cut:
Sword of Vengeance
Seize the Day
Mana Geyser
Fanning the Flames
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
for:
Chaos Warp
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Comet Storm
Fires of Yavimaya
I think this would significantly strengthen your deck while lowering your curve by a whole bunch.
Some cuts I agree, and I forgot about Chaos Warp, which should be an auto include.
However I don’t think I can cut Fanning the Flames if I keep my mana untappers (it’s a source of free damage when I can’t combo).
Vorinclex needs to be replaced with a threat IMO.
I’m contemplating cutting out one half of the infinite combo, so this opens up some possibilities
If I cut say Hellkite Charger and Aggravated Assault, and keep the mana untappers, I want more mana sinks. Things I can shove a bunch of mana into.
If I cut the mana untappers, I want more ramp, and more mana multipliers to still use cards like Aggravated Assault and Hellkite Charger effectively (though not infinitely).
Not sure what direction to take. At the moment I can't find a lot of high value mana sinks but I can find mana multipliers and ramp easily enough.
Response to Draco Cracona:
Rage Reflection and/or Gratuitous Violence are cards I’m stumped on. Are they better or worse then the cards that provide extra attack steps (possibly World at War?) which are the cards they have the most overlap with? I’m just not sure how many damage multipliers I want to run without cutting into everything else the list can do.
Rage Reflection and Gratuitous Violence are inherently weaker in Stonebrow as the extra combat will trigger an extra +2 off of stonebrow himself. The do stack up of course, and they do stick around (?) if your meta isn't heavy on clearing the board. I prefer the extra combat steps as they are a bit more hidden, so you don't appear as threatening.
Stonebrow + Panglacial Wurm + Rage Reflection out looks extremely threatening. (34 damage visible on the board).
Stonebrow + Panglacial Wurm out looks moderately dangerous, but manageable. World at War added in does more damage. (38 damage).
Rage Reflection and Gratuitous Violence are inherently weaker in Stonebrow as the extra combat will trigger an extra +2 off of stonebrow himself. The do stack up of course, and they do stick around (?) if your meta isn't heavy on clearing the board. I prefer the extra combat steps as they are a bit more hidden, so you don't appear as threatening.
This was my reasoning as well, and in line with why I hadn't included them.
Still open to them as an idea and await any further discussion in their favour.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I say cut the Charger and keep the Assault, simply because it is more versatile.
I agree, I cut Charger ages ago because I hated paying 5RR when I declare attacks only to get blown out. Paying 3RR is not only more reasonable, but I can do it post-combat so I don't get time walked. Also, it's only 5RRR to cast and activate it in the same turn post-combat, versus the 5RR it is to activate Dragon on declare.
Okay, decided to cut the infinite combat steps. The mana untappers got the knock as I felt they were the cards I least wanted to draw and suddenly the most situational.
Following cuts were made:
- Squee, Goblin Nabob
- Skullclamp
- Sword of Feast and Famine
- Bear Umbra
- Nature's Will
- Sword of Vengeance
- Fanning the Flames
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Hoarding Dragon
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
+ Scavenging Ooze
+ Sword of Fire and Ice
+ Sword of Light and Shadow
+ Chaos Warp
+ Lightning Greaves
+ Fires of Yavimaya
+ Comet Storm
+ Vines of Vastwood
+ Stonewood Invocation
+ Balefire Dragon
List has definitely evolved to be a bit more fast and efficient I think.
Since I took out the infinite, I kept Seize the Day for the potential explosive play.
Mana Geyser & Charmbreaker Devils are being watched.
I think you could cut Mana Geyser for Sword of Feast and Famine tbh, the untap all lands is huge, almost like a time walk. I also think, with maybe a little more search for consistency, that Panglacial Wurm can work, "flash it in" on your opponent's end step via fetchland or Survival activation or a surprise blocker they didn't think about. I would cut Flameblast Dragon for him. Panglacial is also a 9 power trampling beatstick for 7 mana, which is pretty damn good on it's own. Since you still have Aggravated Assault in your list, note this still combos with SoFaF, but Nature's Will(which I realize you just cut). I can't emphasize how huge the untap lands is relevant, but this also taps your opponents lands. It's like super-SoFaF that only cares about any of your creatures connecting for at least 1 point. It's also an enchantment, which is a bit more resilient. I would cut Hellkite Charger to slot this back in.
If you want more graveyard hate, there's always Relic of Progenitus, which I detest because I hate knocking out my own graveyard. Night Soil has proved invaluable, especially as the exile clause is part of the cost making it nigh-impossible to respond to. Sadly, it only exiles creatures(which admittedly is what most people abuse in the yard anyway). Another option is Ground Seal, which gives you a card when it EtB...however, this can cause some conflict with your Regrowth effects. The only other options left at this point for you are Tormod's Crypt-like effects, which I hate for being one-shot, and Phyrexian Furnace, which while slow, is like a better Relic of Progenitus.
It may just be my own personal preference, but I like Arrogant Wurm and Reckless Wurm, they interact favorably with Survival of the Fittest(essentially 4 mana for a 4/4 trample at instant speed) and they have the same stats as Stonebrow. While I'm not excited to hardcast them, I'm still okay with it as a 4/4 trample for 5 that is a 6/6 when it matters is still pretty aggressive.
Sorry to get so long-winded on you, hope this is helpful for you though!
I think you could cut Mana Geyser for Sword of Feast and Famine tbh, the untap all lands is huge, almost like a time walk. I also think, with maybe a little more search for consistency, that Panglacial Wurm can work, "flash it in" on your opponent's end step via fetchland or Survival activation or a surprise blocker they didn't think about. I would cut Flameblast Dragon for him. Panglacial is also a 9 power trampling beatstick for 7 mana, which is pretty damn good on it's own. Since you still have Aggravated Assault in your list, note this still combos with SoFaF, but Nature's Will(which I realize you just cut). I can't emphasize how huge the untap lands is relevant, but this also taps your opponents lands. It's like super-SoFaF that only cares about any of your creatures connecting for at least 1 point. It's also an enchantment, which is a bit more resilient. I would cut Hellkite Charger to slot this back in.
I purposely cut the infinite combat steps out (per the post above yours), so either the Sword of Feast of Famine and Nature's Will come in and Aggravated Assault and Hell Charger go out, or vice versa. I basically can't have both sets of cards in the list.
In a ideal list, I'd include the infinite, but I have to make a meta call here like I did cutting Vorinclux. The reaction to the infinite combat steps was worse then I had anticipated.
I cut the land untappers over the attack step cards because I felt they stood better on their own then the other two.
The land untappers without the infinite I felt only encouraged me to over commit the board to use the resources. I'm open to ideas though, I'm just not clear on how much value these cards provide me without the infinite.
If you want more graveyard hate, there's always Relic of Progenitus, which I detest because I hate knocking out my own graveyard. Night Soil has proved invaluable, especially as the exile clause is part of the cost making it nigh-impossible to respond to. Sadly, it only exiles creatures(which admittedly is what most people abuse in the yard anyway). Another option is Ground Seal, which gives you a card when it EtB...however, this can cause some conflict with your Regrowth effects. The only other options left at this point for you are Tormod's Crypt-like effects, which I hate for being one-shot, and Phyrexian Furnace, which while slow, is like a better Relic of Progenitus.
Yes, considered all those, but also considering Loaming Shaman since it's the most tutorable (and recurable) card type I have.
It may just be my own personal preference, but I like Arrogant Wurm and Reckless Wurm, they interact favorably with Survival of the Fittest(essentially 4 mana for a 4/4 trample at instant speed) and they have the same stats as Stonebrow. While I'm not excited to hardcast them, I'm still okay with it as a 4/4 trample for 5 that is a 6/6 when it matters is still pretty aggressive.
Don't think I could find the cuts for these and they are too conditional on having Survival out to be super useful IMO.
Sorry to get so long-winded on you, hope this is helpful for you though!
Ya, Charmbreaker Devils are being watched, but theoretically I do like them a lot.
I will try and fit Panglacial Wurm in. I feel I'd have to up my fetch land count to make it work, which isn't a problem, just another adjustment to make.
A small gem I pulled out for the Stonebrow I'm building is wilderness elemental.
Know of him, his spot is currently taken by Spawnwrithe or Chameleon Colossus. Either of these three are suitable for that spot and will probably be tested, currently Spawnwrithe is up to bat.
Worth it in this list? It's 9 mana for essentially two creatures, but I'm not sure if fetching any two creatures (in this list) are exceptional enough to warrant its spot. If I was running Kiki Jiki (which isn't bad in the list come to think about it...) maybe...
Either I'm characteristically under valuing the card (no one has questioned it) or I'd possibly consider putting something heavy in it's spot. It would need to be a big impact card that helps win the game though
Run Kiki (do it, seriously) and keeps T&N in. One of my absolute favourite plays is Prime Time + Kiki. You get 4 lands from your deck, thus solving mana problems for the rest of the game, and it's not half as threatening as something like Avenger of Zendikar + Kiki (though this is what I often search up when the game needs ending).
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
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It's aim isn't to be super broken, but I'd like it to be exceptionally strong and explosive.
I've favoured "goodstuff" over theme in most cases, so I'm not looking to cram the list with as many tramplers as possible, but there are plenty of good cards that are on theme anyway.
1 Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Creatures:
1 Scavenging Ooze (Graveyard hate)
1 Loaming Shaman (Graveyard hate)
1 Eternal Witness (Recursion)
1 Wood Elves (Ramp)
1 Oracle of Mul Daya (Ramp)
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Urabrask the Hidden (Haste)
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (Haste)
1 Acidic Slime (Board control)
1 Hystrodon (Draw)
1 Deus of Calamity
1 Vigor
1 Primeval Titan (Ramp)
1 Mana-Charged Dragon
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord (Tutor)
1 Charmbreaker Devils (Recursion)
1 Panglacial Wurm
1 Balefire Dragon (Board control)
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Avatar of Fury
1 Woodfall Primus (Board control)
1 Terastodon (Board control)
1 Greater Gargadon (Sac outlet)
Additional Combat:
1 Aggravated Assault
1 Savage Beating
1 Seize the Day
1 World at War
1 Rancor
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Brawn
1 Triumph of the Hordes
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Anger
1 In the Web of War
Draw & Recursion:
1 Regrowth
1 Genesis
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Harmonize
1 Greater Good (Sac outlet)
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Tutors:
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Tooth and Nail
Acceleration:
1 Sol Ring
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Reap and Sow
Spot Removal:
1 Hull Breach
1 Krosan Grip
1 Beast Within
1 Chaos Warp
1 Oblivion Stone
1 All is Dust
Finisher:
1 Comet Storm
1 Insurrection
1 Decree of Annihilation
Lands:
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Gruul Turf
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Mossfire Valley
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Treetop Village
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Strip Mine
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
9 Mountain
9 Forest
Deckstats:
http://deckstats.net/deck-903002-b8d8f1366fee5f9fdf01ed34afb7a0a7-en.html
Change Log:
Changes 01.11.11
- Vines of Vastwood
- Stonewood Invocation
- Mana Geyser
- Momentous Fall
- Flameblast Dragon
- Hellkite Charger
- Spawnwrithe
- Forest
- Mountain
+ Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
+ Loaming Shaman
+ Loxodon Warhammer
+ Greater Good
+ Avatar of Fury
+ Panglacial Wurm
+ Chameleon Collosus
+ Arid Mesa
+ Misty Rainforest
Changes 18.10.11
- Squee, Goblin Nabob
- Skullclamp
- Sword of Feast and Famine
- Bear Umbra
- Nature's Will
- Sword of Vengeance
- Fanning the Flames
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Hoarding Dragon
+ Scavenging Ooze
+ Sword of Fire and Ice
+ Sword of Light and Shadow
+ Chaos Warp
+ Lightning Greaves
+ Fires of Yavimaya
+ Comet Storm
+ Vines of Vastwood
+ Stonewood Invocation
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
Decree also seems like random LD...unless you do plan to use it as a total reset.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I think the list should be alright for Breakers. Everything I could return is solid value mostly. The ramp might be a bit of a downer late game, but I could include Panglacial Wurm if it was a problem.
Decree is random, but I don't want to jam the list with LD. If I hit it, and it wins me a game, so be it. I see your point though, it may be better to get another "finisher" in here of the same style I have already for redundancy.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
[CARD]
Baru, Fist of Krosa[/CARD] seems good, as does: Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Primal Rage and Rancor.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I like the Ooze a lot, will try to squeeze him in.
Rancor is in.
Not sure what I would cut for Green Sun's Zenith, price isn't an issue.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
Mana Geyser while cute, could likely be cut, it's too conditional.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
This is a very solid list. Most people who build Stonebrow (including my bro, at first) tend to overcommit to his ability, just putting in fat tramplers. I like the direction you've taken with the deck.
If price is not an issue, I would work to getting both Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Light and Shadow in here. They absolutely murder people when attached to one of your tramplers and the draw and recursion are extremely beneficial to the deck as a whole. More fire power + utility = good.
I would also work towards adding Fervor and Fires of Yavimaya as additional haste outlets.
I was going to suggest things to cut by this is a really tight list. I will be back when I can use my brain better.
Some food for thought:
I need to replace Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger in the list. Apparently my meta has a deep seated hatred for this card whereby if he doesn't win you the game in the range of say the next turn, everyone at the table will gun for you. His nick name is Boringclux. Need something exceptionally solid to fill his shoes. I might keep him in the theoretical list, because I believe he is a optimal choice over a meta call.
I also might have to cut the infinites out, but not sure yet. Have a few ideas to exploit the list the same way, but without necessarily going infinite.
EDIT with more responses:
@Molten Disaster suggestion from Orpheos, good suggestion, but global damage can be scary in a race. I'd hate to be looking for a finisher, drawing this and not be able to use it because it puts me in a equally fragile position.
@Dramaturtle
I agree, both Swords are good, but I don't want to overload on non-threats, so what do you cut into? I could possibly cut Sword of Vengeance for one, which, I'm not sure.
I definitely want to fit in Fires of Yavimaya. I hadn't initially valued haste high enough, but after watching a few games last night where people continually played threats that were answered almost immediately, my opinion changed quite a bit. I've always considered Fires itself a bit underwhelming, but what I'm appreciating now is it's CMC cost. It comes down before turn 5 (Stonebrow time) and later increases the chance I can play it and a threat simultaneously. I wish it didn't clash with the Cultivate -> Stonebrow flow, but I have to consider when doing that, I can go Cultivate -> Fires/In the Web of War -> Stonebrow and still be swinging on the same turn (turn 5).
Look forward to the rest of your feedback.
More responses when I can.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
Sword of Vengeance
Seize the Day
Mana Geyser
Fanning the Flames
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
for:
Chaos Warp
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Comet Storm
Fires of Yavimaya
I think this would significantly strengthen your deck while lowering your curve by a whole bunch.
IDK for me, when I play this kind of deck i just go balls to the walls aggro. its not meant to win necessarily, its meant to turn guys sideways and DO things other than hoard resources. its more of a break from the tryharding that my other decks do.
in my stonebrow deck i value haste over pretty much everything. it is EXTREMELY important. it essentially adds an ETB ability to all your dudes.
i run lightning greaves, swiftfoot boots, fires of yavimaya, urabrask, in the web of war, and most importantly, hall of the bandit lord. i never regret having redundant forms of haste. because if they ever kill my haste provider I want it back immediately.
also something that has served me extremely well as another "haste" source is warstorm surge. I love playing it with rampaging baloths and making my own valakut. I have also finished a game by terastadon-ing my own lands to 18 them and then swinging in with haste.
Rage Reflection and/or Gratuitous Violence are cards I’m stumped on. Are they better or worse then the cards that provide extra attack steps (possibly World at War?) which are the cards they have the most overlap with? I’m just not sure how many damage multipliers I want to run without cutting into everything else the list can do.
Packleader gets a pass because it requires me to over extend to get lots of value out of it. This list is trying to do more with less, then the vice versa.
Primordial Hydra is worth looking at, along with a lot of other fatties you’ve mentioned as well.
I don’t think I’ll cut Urabrask, haste is awesome and his second effect is pretty strong too.
I like the Dragons, they fall into the “more for less” category. Hoarding Dragon is being watched though.
I’ll test Spawnwrithe before cutting him.
Agree that I’ll find something, reviewing all the suggestions so far.
Response to DramaTurtle
Some cuts I agree, and I forgot about Chaos Warp, which should be an auto include.
However I don’t think I can cut Fanning the Flames if I keep my mana untappers (it’s a source of free damage when I can’t combo).
Vorinclex needs to be replaced with a threat IMO.
I’m contemplating cutting out one half of the infinite combo, so this opens up some possibilities
If I cut say Hellkite Charger and Aggravated Assault, and keep the mana untappers, I want more mana sinks. Things I can shove a bunch of mana into.
If I cut the mana untappers, I want more ramp, and more mana multipliers to still use cards like Aggravated Assault and Hellkite Charger effectively (though not infinitely).
Not sure what direction to take. At the moment I can't find a lot of high value mana sinks but I can find mana multipliers and ramp easily enough.
Hope that makes sense.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
Rage Reflection and Gratuitous Violence are inherently weaker in Stonebrow as the extra combat will trigger an extra +2 off of stonebrow himself. The do stack up of course, and they do stick around (?) if your meta isn't heavy on clearing the board. I prefer the extra combat steps as they are a bit more hidden, so you don't appear as threatening.
Stonebrow + Panglacial Wurm + Rage Reflection out looks extremely threatening. (34 damage visible on the board).
Stonebrow + Panglacial Wurm out looks moderately dangerous, but manageable. World at War added in does more damage. (38 damage).
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
This was my reasoning as well, and in line with why I hadn't included them.
Still open to them as an idea and await any further discussion in their favour.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
I agree, I cut Charger ages ago because I hated paying 5RR when I declare attacks only to get blown out. Paying 3RR is not only more reasonable, but I can do it post-combat so I don't get time walked. Also, it's only 5RRR to cast and activate it in the same turn post-combat, versus the 5RR it is to activate Dragon on declare.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Following cuts were made:
- Squee, Goblin Nabob
- Skullclamp
- Sword of Feast and Famine
- Bear Umbra
- Nature's Will
- Sword of Vengeance
- Fanning the Flames
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Hoarding Dragon
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
+ Scavenging Ooze
+ Sword of Fire and Ice
+ Sword of Light and Shadow
+ Chaos Warp
+ Lightning Greaves
+ Fires of Yavimaya
+ Comet Storm
+ Vines of Vastwood
+ Stonewood Invocation
+ Balefire Dragon
List has definitely evolved to be a bit more fast and efficient I think.
Since I took out the infinite, I kept Seize the Day for the potential explosive play.
Mana Geyser & Charmbreaker Devils are being watched.
Want more graveyard hate.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
If you want more graveyard hate, there's always Relic of Progenitus, which I detest because I hate knocking out my own graveyard. Night Soil has proved invaluable, especially as the exile clause is part of the cost making it nigh-impossible to respond to. Sadly, it only exiles creatures(which admittedly is what most people abuse in the yard anyway). Another option is Ground Seal, which gives you a card when it EtB...however, this can cause some conflict with your Regrowth effects. The only other options left at this point for you are Tormod's Crypt-like effects, which I hate for being one-shot, and Phyrexian Furnace, which while slow, is like a better Relic of Progenitus.
It may just be my own personal preference, but I like Arrogant Wurm and Reckless Wurm, they interact favorably with Survival of the Fittest(essentially 4 mana for a 4/4 trample at instant speed) and they have the same stats as Stonebrow. While I'm not excited to hardcast them, I'm still okay with it as a 4/4 trample for 5 that is a 6/6 when it matters is still pretty aggressive.
Sorry to get so long-winded on you, hope this is helpful for you though!
edit: I think you have more than enough support for Charmbreaker Devils just recurring Harmonize is gravy, or Savage Beating is GG. Recurring Triumph of the Hordes is sick too. Or just recur Regrowth to recur whatever you want.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I purposely cut the infinite combat steps out (per the post above yours), so either the Sword of Feast of Famine and Nature's Will come in and Aggravated Assault and Hell Charger go out, or vice versa. I basically can't have both sets of cards in the list.
In a ideal list, I'd include the infinite, but I have to make a meta call here like I did cutting Vorinclux. The reaction to the infinite combat steps was worse then I had anticipated.
I cut the land untappers over the attack step cards because I felt they stood better on their own then the other two.
The land untappers without the infinite I felt only encouraged me to over commit the board to use the resources. I'm open to ideas though, I'm just not clear on how much value these cards provide me without the infinite.
Yes, considered all those, but also considering Loaming Shaman since it's the most tutorable (and recurable) card type I have.
Don't think I could find the cuts for these and they are too conditional on having Survival out to be super useful IMO.
Long winded the better!
Ya, Charmbreaker Devils are being watched, but theoretically I do like them a lot.
I will try and fit Panglacial Wurm in. I feel I'd have to up my fetch land count to make it work, which isn't a problem, just another adjustment to make.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Know of him, his spot is currently taken by Spawnwrithe or Chameleon Colossus. Either of these three are suitable for that spot and will probably be tested, currently Spawnwrithe is up to bat.
It's just a matter of room otherwise.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
Maybe it's just me, but his low rear end always causes problems for me. I prefer Spawnwrithe to him personally for his "army in a can".
edit: I hear ya Psyces, In guess I would go with the extra combat stuff over the untap lands, as you said so you don't over-commit to the board.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I'll give him a whirl and see how he runs. It'll be a while before my deck is pulled together though.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Worth it in this list? It's 9 mana for essentially two creatures, but I'm not sure if fetching any two creatures (in this list) are exceptional enough to warrant its spot. If I was running Kiki Jiki (which isn't bad in the list come to think about it...) maybe...
Either I'm characteristically under valuing the card (no one has questioned it) or I'd possibly consider putting something heavy in it's spot. It would need to be a big impact card that helps win the game though
Thoughts?
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas