Maze of Ith may seem like an odd pick since I kind of want creatures attacking me in order to feed the vampires, but sometimes they're not ready to feed an need a little bit of extra defense.
Also, I am considering swapping the places of Kalitas and Mirri. Destroying and stealing is always fun, but it's a shame it is so incredibly hard to get generals with him. How many people ever let their generals go to the yard, especially when I would get a copy once it hits the graveyard. So the other option is a hasty first-striking general that gets bigger allowing for larger and larger amounts of possible general damage. Opinions?
So, with all that being said, post some suggestions. More land? More creatures? Get rid of some crap? Let me know.
mirri would make a better general, the other takes too long to come out and once its dead wont remain long. I'll think of more tomarrow... its an interesting concept as the vampire ability often enough has felt too weak, feels more like a psuedo fear.
I have a question in regards to all the discard you are running... is this deck intended for 2 player or 3+ player games. If it is for 2 player games, then by all means keep the Discard in the deck. However if it is for 3+ player games, then my advice is to drop the discard in favor of either more creatures, removal, mana ramp, or other good stuff that should make the deck run more smothly.
The reason I say this is because in 3+ player games, Discard simply is not your friend as it will make the player you use the Discard against into an enemy faster than you can say "1-2-3". Either way, if you must run discard, then run Discard such as Myojin of Night's Reach, or Syphon Mind. The only discard spells that only target one player that are really worth running are the ones that potentially drop an opponents entire hand (or most of it). So in that vein the only ones that are worth running are Persecute, Mind Sludge, and Mind Twist.
Hope that helps a bit?
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
mirri would make a better general, the other takes too long to come out and once its dead wont remain long. I'll think of more tomarrow... its an interesting concept as the vampire ability often enough has felt too weak, feels more like a psuedo fear.
The Ascension is already there, and I like the other suggestions... just don't feel like springing for the Damnation just yet. What would you suggest dropping for these cards?
I have a question in regards to all the discard you are running... is this deck intended for 2 player or 3+ player games. If it is for 2 player games, then by all means keep the Discard in the deck. However if it is for 3+ player games, then my advice is to drop the discard in favor of either more creatures, removal, mana ramp, or other good stuff that should make the deck run more smothly.
The reason I say this is because in 3+ player games, Discard simply is not your friend as it will make the player you use the Discard against into an enemy faster than you can say "1-2-3". Either way, if you must run discard, then run Discard such as Myojin of Night's Reach, or Syphon Mind. The only discard spells that only target one player that are really worth running are the ones that potentially drop an opponents entire hand (or most of it). So in that vein the only ones that are worth running are Persecute, Mind Sludge, and Mind Twist.
Hope that helps a bit?
This is intended for 1 versus 1, so the discard has its place.
I know that people get whiney about discard, but they get whiney about LD and milling, too. Probably because they feel that it's "not fair," and that no one else should be running it, so they don't prepare for it. A constant slate of sweepers and pinpoint removal is equally annoying, but no one ever really seems to get their undies bunched over that one.
My plans for a multiplayer version would be to... leave it in. After all it's only 1/2 of 1% of the deck, not a dedicated strategy.
I disagree with the idea of putting Mirri as the General, if only because to fully use Mirri you kind of have to build around her (specifically she loves loves loves being the target of a well timed Hatred) where as Kalitas is more designed with Vampire EDH in general in mind. Though if you want one of the best Vampire EDH generals in existence, I would always recommend Baron Sengir as he serves a more protective roll. Kallitas and Mirri are both good in that they can both be really effective at pushing through General Damage in their own ways. But Baron Sengir is more designed to work with a pure Aggro Strategy in mind.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I'd prefer Kalitas or Baron Sengir cuz they are more "Vampire General flavored" than Mirri. But yeah, Mirri + Hatred is the best way to win. But not so funny I think... Oh, where is Hatred??? Hatred + Lifelink is funny. Whispersilk Cloak is better than Trailblazer's Boots but Loxodon Warhammer is much better. And Lifelink is well flavored with Vampires.
I'd prefer Kalitas or Baron Sengir cuz they are more "Vampire General flavored" than Mirri. But yeah, Mirri + Hatred is the best way to win. But not so funny I think... Oh, where is Hatred??? Hatred + Lifelink is funny. Whispersilk Cloak is better than Trailblazer's Boots but Loxodon Warhammer is much better. And Lifelink is well flavored with Vampires.
Hatred isn't here because I don't own one. Same with the Warhammer. More lifelink is always welcome, though, so I might need one. I know there's a Whispersill Cloak around here somewhere that can go in... do you think it should be in addition to the Lightning Greaves and the Cloak and Dagger, or replace the Cloak and Dagger?
While the Baron is certainly my favorite vampire in the game, he just comes online so late at 8 mana. Mirri comes out twice as fast. But I may make the swap at some point for flavor reasoning.
Mirri is better, no doubt about that. I made this deck too and I chose Kalitas as general cuz 1) no Kalitas deck here 2) more flavoured. In fact, i've built my deck as more flavoured as possible.
Thought about that one. But unless I'm going against someone with land destruction, I don't see me having the need to get back and lands from the graveyard. Would the Discovery be better than something simple, cheap, and straightforward like, say, Raise Dead?
Thoughts on Patriarch's Bidding? Right now it's in my Darigaaz/Karrthus Big Stomping Dragon EDH deck, but I was thinking it might be a better fit here.
Interestingly enough i had actually created my own vampire deck and though i havn't put it through any testing i did find a few uses of cards that you had, so i will post my own list in a spoiler just in case your interested in checking it out. My deck did use garza zol but thats really just because of colors, if only i could get some alternate art. One thing you NEED in the deck is Arena its just a house if you get it going early enough... all those utility creatures just become tastey morsels.
Still in progress not sure if this will be the final cut or not but i like it. Really wanted some flavorful cards in like Fact or Fiction, Bad Moon but oh well, the deck really needed a speed boost. One thing i did find is that i didn't always need to force an opponent to attack me, sometimes just playing particularly annoying cards, like subversion or polluted bonds would accomplish the effect enough, also those cards in themselves tend to have more an effect on the game than one shot abilities like drain life, and consume spirit.
yep, but some people in the early game wont have a choice in what they choose if used at the right times, it also works wonders with death touching creatures.
For pure flavor reasons I put the Baron back in his rightful place as General.
I think Mirri is quicker and more powerful, but the Baron is, well, the Baron.
But the fact of the matter is that all three of them are equally interchangeable.
In the meantime, any suggestions on three cards to cut? I want to add two more lands and an Expedition Map. I cannot decide what needs to go. Also, would Eldrazi Monument be worthwhile here, or not worth the space?
Why do I never see Patriarch's Bidding in these creature based theme EDH decks. I mean Mono Black with tutors is the simplest but I never see it in any Scion of the Ur-Dragon decks either. I mean name Vampires after a Damnation and watch your opponent(s) jaws drop.
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001 Baron Sengir
PLANESWALKER
002 Sorin Markov
CREATURES
003 Ascendant Evincar
004 Bloodghast
005 Gatekeeper of Malakir
006 Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet
007 Krovikan Vampire
008 Malakir Bloodwitch
009 Mephidross Vampire
010 Mirri the Cursed
011 Moonglove Changeling
012 Nettling Imp
013 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
014 Repentant Vampire
015 Sengir Vampire
016 Soul Collector
017 Spirit of the Night
018 Vampire Hexmage
019 Vampire Nighthawk
020 Vampire Nocturnus
DRAIN LIFE EFFECTS
021 Blood Tribute
022 Bloodchief Ascension
023 Consume Spirit
024 Drain Life
025 Needlebite Trap
026 Sanguine Bond
027 Syphon Soul
028 Demonic Tutor
029 Diabolic Tutor
030 Animate Dead
031 Disturbed Burial
032 Living Death
033 Necromancy
034 Oath of Ghouls
035 Reanimate
036 Return to Battle
REMOVAL
037 Chainer's Edict
038 Contagion
039 Dark Banishing
040 Decree of Pain
041 Diabolic Edict
042 Feast of Blood
043 Tendrils of Corruption
Discard
044 Coercion
045 Deception
046 Duress
047 Hymn to Tourach
048 Mind Twist
Miscellaneous
049 Cover of Darkness
050 Dark Ritual
051 Imprison
052 Imps' Taunt
053 Phyrexian Arena
054 Sadistic Sacrament
055 Sogni del Mondo Sotterraneo
056 Vampire's Bite
057 Blade of the Bloodchief
058 Bullwhip
059 Cloak and Dagger
060 Jet Medallion
061 Life Chisel
062 Lightning Greaves
063 Relic of Progenitus
064 Sol Ring
065 Thornbite Staff
066 Trailblazer's Boots
LAND
067 Cabal Coffers
068 Crypt of Agadeem
069 Leechridden Swamp
070 Maze of Ith
071 Urborg
There are a few cards missing that I want in here, but do not currently have. They include Volrath's Stronghold, Vampiric Tutor, Norritt, and Liliana Vess. And some more removal, perhaps.
Maze of Ith may seem like an odd pick since I kind of want creatures attacking me in order to feed the vampires, but sometimes they're not ready to feed an need a little bit of extra defense.
Also, I am considering swapping the places of Kalitas and Mirri. Destroying and stealing is always fun, but it's a shame it is so incredibly hard to get generals with him. How many people ever let their generals go to the yard, especially when I would get a copy once it hits the graveyard. So the other option is a hasty first-striking general that gets bigger allowing for larger and larger amounts of possible general damage. Opinions?So, with all that being said, post some suggestions. More land? More creatures? Get rid of some crap? Let me know.
Thanks.
mirri would make a better general, the other takes too long to come out and once its dead wont remain long. I'll think of more tomarrow... its an interesting concept as the vampire ability often enough has felt too weak, feels more like a psuedo fear.
The reason I say this is because in 3+ player games, Discard simply is not your friend as it will make the player you use the Discard against into an enemy faster than you can say "1-2-3". Either way, if you must run discard, then run Discard such as Myojin of Night's Reach, or Syphon Mind. The only discard spells that only target one player that are really worth running are the ones that potentially drop an opponents entire hand (or most of it). So in that vein the only ones that are worth running are Persecute, Mind Sludge, and Mind Twist.
Hope that helps a bit?
The Ascension is already there, and I like the other suggestions... just don't feel like springing for the Damnation just yet. What would you suggest dropping for these cards?
This is intended for 1 versus 1, so the discard has its place.
I know that people get whiney about discard, but they get whiney about LD and milling, too. Probably because they feel that it's "not fair," and that no one else should be running it, so they don't prepare for it. A constant slate of sweepers and pinpoint removal is equally annoying, but no one ever really seems to get their undies bunched over that one.
My plans for a multiplayer version would be to... leave it in. After all it's only 1/2 of 1% of the deck, not a dedicated strategy.
but Loxodon Warhammer is much better. And Lifelink is well flavored with Vampires.
Hatred isn't here because I don't own one. Same with the Warhammer. More lifelink is always welcome, though, so I might need one. I know there's a Whispersill Cloak around here somewhere that can go in... do you think it should be in addition to the Lightning Greaves and the Cloak and Dagger, or replace the Cloak and Dagger?
While the Baron is certainly my favorite vampire in the game, he just comes online so late at 8 mana. Mirri comes out twice as fast. But I may make the swap at some point for flavor reasoning.
Thought about that one. But unless I'm going against someone with land destruction, I don't see me having the need to get back and lands from the graveyard. Would the Discovery be better than something simple, cheap, and straightforward like, say, Raise Dead?
Thoughts on Patriarch's Bidding? Right now it's in my Darigaaz/Karrthus Big Stomping Dragon EDH deck, but I was thinking it might be a better fit here.
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
1 Bullwhip
1 Chrome Mox
1 Expedition Map
1 Extra Planar Lense
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Grappling Hook
1 Ivory Tower
1 Jet Medallion
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
Creatures 21
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Baron Sengir
1 Bloodghast
1 Blood tyrant
1 Child of Night
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Guul Draz Vampire
1 Kalitas, Bloodchief of ghet
1 Krovikan Vampire
1 Malakir Bloodwitch
1 Mephidross Vampire
1 Mirri the Cursed
1 Repentant Vampire
1 Sengir Nosferatu
1 Sengir Vampire
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Soul Collector
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Vampire Nocturnus
1 Vein Drinker
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Gravestorm
1 Oath of Ghouls
1 Oversold Cemetary
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Polluted Bonds
1 Subversion
1 Unfulfilled Desires
Instants 3
1 Imp's Taunt
1 Moonlight Bargain
1 Vampiric Tutor
Land 40
1 Arena
1 Strip mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Wasteland
1 reliquary tower
1 Badlands
1 Underground Sea
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Graven Cairns
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
21 Swamp
1 Sorin Markov
Sorcery 13
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Blood Tribute
1 Damnation
1 Decree of Pain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Mutilate
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in blood
Still in progress not sure if this will be the final cut or not but i like it. Really wanted some flavorful cards in like Fact or Fiction, Bad Moon but oh well, the deck really needed a speed boost. One thing i did find is that i didn't always need to force an opponent to attack me, sometimes just playing particularly annoying cards, like subversion or polluted bonds would accomplish the effect enough, also those cards in themselves tend to have more an effect on the game than one shot abilities like drain life, and consume spirit.
Cover of Darkness
Damnation - Yes, you need it.
Liliana Vess
I think Mirri is quicker and more powerful, but the Baron is, well, the Baron.
But the fact of the matter is that all three of them are equally interchangeable.
Cover of Darkness is in.
In the meantime, any suggestions on three cards to cut? I want to add two more lands and an Expedition Map. I cannot decide what needs to go. Also, would Eldrazi Monument be worthwhile here, or not worth the space?
Congrats dude...you just made me want to make a Commander Eesha EDH with Gorgon Flail and Arena. >_>
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.