So the idea here is to cast zombies, cycle gempalm polluter and bash face, then bring them all bake to do it again. using ghoulraisers and grave scrabbler allow along with TE, allow you to grind out value while smashing face with Pimps and carrion feeders and infectious host and polluters allow you to deal essentially unstoppable damage since there's very little in pauper to do against polluter.
New version:
Idea is to get some zombies and deal damage quickly then finish off with polluter who is ustoppable in pauper (not a spell, not combat, life loss not damage)
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
ghoulraiser since its not all that great is on the chopping block and anyway you want to be recuring creatures, specifically, the gempalm with it.
Infectious host while it looks really utterly terrible on paper, is actually not terrible in actual games. most people don't block it because its a 1/1 and even when they do, its a 1/1 that you can recur later for extra points of damage. its not extremely aggressive, but its more a of a crude but effective body.
I'm defiantly looking at the shepard for a spot in the deck, as well as splashing green for putrid imp and possibly sideboarded brownscales. (if using both 2 drop cutting butcher ghoul and infectious host)
aside from just using TE with the normal dredgers, It still provides advantage in the same way looting does by providing better card quality, as well as with the scabbler . I do want to test an iteration using the dredgers to allow chaining of gempalm polluters together by using TE to get back polluter, cycle for damage and replace the craw with dredging then repeat.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Don't bother splashing green. Most TE decks with Brownscale just ignore casting it since it's basically just free life that can recur any creature in your yard. Putrid Leech is nice, but not worth the worse mana base.
It's not a Zombie, but Soulcage Fiend is very aggressive and can easily be recurred and sacced with Feeder for some reach. Organ Grinder is similar and a Zombie, but ultimately less effective IMO.
As said, Chant is pretty powerful especially with the Polluter. I also like Shepherd of Rot for the reach.
It's not a Zombie, but Soulcage Fiend is very aggressive and can easily be recurred and sacced with Carrion Feeder for some reach. Organ Grinder is similar and a Zombie, but ultimately less effective IMO.
As said, Ghoulcaller's Chant is pretty powerful especially with the Polluter. I also like Shepherd of Rot for the reach.
Tagged your cards for you. Its a pet peeve of mine when you mention something with no tags so we have no idea what it is without looking it up and hopefully finding it.
I agree no splashing unless its completely worth it and I don't think any other colored zombies are currently.One zombie that does the same kind of thing as Soulcage Fiend is Maggot Carrier if you prefer.
You should try out creatures that do things when they die.
Having never tried it myself, how bad is Sangrophage? It's kind of clunky for proper Legacy but for Pauper it seems like it would solidly outclass most attackers/blockers for a bargain price.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
I was against splashing, but its usually not great to run a playset of cards you can't cast (brownscales) Leech actually is worth it because it outclasses every other 2 drop in the format, as well as killing guardian of the guildpact which is nearly impossible to stop other wise. It put major pressure on opponent early on. Its sort of like sangrophage but with +1/+1.
I do have a list thats still mono black if the green splash doesn't work well. basically its just -4 leech +4 butcher ghoul; 22 swamps, +1 ghoulraiser
soulcage fiend is an interesting idea, but its hard enough to achieve a critical mass of zombies.
My original list had black cat and it was the first thing cut because it was just plain bad. I always had high hopes for it, but the fact is that its a 1/1 so its not a threat and it just sits there as a 2cmc 1/1 unless you have carrion feeder out. the same goes for the festering goblin which is why I replaced it with Putrid imp.
I'm finding that the best strategy with this is to put on some early pressure with beaters then once you find a TE and Polluter, the games over in a turn or two.
____________
Edit: mono black version has been preforming well. better than green splash
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
I like the Putrid Leech a lot for it's aggro potential and being a Zombie which fits the deck theme, but have to agree that it may not be enough of a reason to play green.
That said, I like adding green for the potential to include Scattershot Archers in the SB. They can really help to shut down MUC Faeries and WW - but really shine with the inclusion of Quirion Rangers. Unfortunately I don't think the ranger really fits this deck at all. Green may be best left out.
I like the 1.35 list with only a few issues.
I'm not a fan of Ghoulraiser. While it is a zombie and pulls one zombie from the GY to your hand it's random. What I really want back from the yard most of the time is the Polluter. I think it should be replaced with Ghoulcaller's Chant - which can recur 2 zombies from the yard or a single creature of your choice.
Golgari Brownscale as mentioned is good with TE and helps regain some life, but most TE decks only run 2 of them...unless I'm mistaken.
Shepherd of Rot - nice. Hurts you as well, but can turn a loss into a tie and can get extra damage through. Just weak to removal - especially sweepers like Seismic Shudder, Holy Light, etc. Still, it just feels like you have to run these. Maybe not so many though.
I'm thinking about the following changes:
-2 Golgari Brownscale
-1 Shepherd of Rot
-1 Ghoul Raiser
+4 Ghoulcaller's Chant
or possibly +3 Ghoulcaller's Chant and leave the extra Shepherd of add another Echoing Decay.
In your testing so far how has it faired vs Storm decks or Aggro?
The only other thing I wish could fit would be Unearth. It puts all of your creature back on the board except Grave Scrabbler, Brownscale and Gempalm (the last two which you don't really want on the board anyway) - plus it cycles. I just can't think of what I would pull for it - and with Ghoulcaller's Chant already included it's not really needed.
I'm interested to see your matchups and see some testing samples.
I've been having some nice success in testing the list 1.35 I have posted. I defenitly want all 4 brownscales. I think of the 12 games I lost, 6 of them can be blamed on me not having a brownscale, and 3 of the others are due to infect where its not relevant. Its a huge part of the strategy especially chaining it with polluters once you have 3 mana.
One thing I'll definitely agree with is that the ghoulraiser sucks the big one. I never want to pay 3 for a creature and usually the random return effect is irrelevant. It got sideboarded out every match. It would be much better as another 1-2 drop. I want to cut it for another echoing decay or a ghoulcaller's chant, but one of the issues I've had is getting to 3 zombies on the battlefield to make the polluter and shepherd relevant.
went through the common legal zombies again, this time only ones that cost 1-2 cmc. highborn ghoul seems to be the next previously uplayable card to step up to the plate.
Crypt Creeper - 2/1 grave hate? not sure if thats relevant at all except vs other TE decks. meh. maybe sideboard
Carnophage - 2/2 for 1. its solid, not to enthused about more suicide, especially when it gets outclassed fairly easily. meh
Sangrophage - similar to carnophage just more mana and more pain. pretty much a really bad putrid leech. super meh
festering goblin - i guess it could be good... scraping the bottom of the barrel.
dredgescape zombie - unearthable 2/1. meh
highborn ghoul - 2/1 inftimidate. possibly relevant against a number of decks. unfortunatly he trades with rats. most likely of these to get called up and called "playable" nightscape familiar/walking dead a 1/1 regenerator isn't terrible, but I'm not thrilled at having both 1 power and 1 toughness. very meh. Null Champion (again a 1/1 but I could see this stealing a game or 2 as a mana sink. once it hits 7/3 regen, its somewhat tough to answer Rotting rats - discard doesn't hurt this deck as bad sicne everything comes back... another possible madness enabler plus it unearths? Skinthinner - 2/1 that can be a late game removal spell
These are my results so far:
4-3 vs UB Control (rats/drifter/teaching)
2-1 vs burn
6-2 vs UR Post (standard)
2-0 vs UR Post (w Sprout swarm)
1-0 UR burn/delver
4-2 goblins
0-2 white aggro
2-3 Infect
2-4 Storm
Against aggro decks its pretty much a matter of tossing dudes out there, finding a brownshell then widdling down their life total till they die.
control is landing a TE making pretty much all the removal and counterspells they have irrelevant then using the uncounterable wincon of polluter to kill them while they watch helplessly. against cloudpost i did have some games that just went carrion feeder, shepherd, then just layout more zombies and smash face since they don't have many early threats.
combo
Storm.... sideboard in duresses and echoing decays, smash face asap and pray you kill them first.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Highborn ghoul is certainly playable, intimidation is excellent. There aren't that many black decks in the meta and if you're really bothered by it you can board it out in those matches.
so two problems:
1) I was apparently getting lucky during my first day or so of testing, but all of a sudden, I'm not drawing tortured existences in 85% of my games. not sure why but I'm going to test forbidden alchemy in the deck (and splashing blue)
2)evasive beaters. I've been having game after game of turn 1 delver, turn to flip, counter stinkweed imp and just smash face. Or guardian of the guildpact/squadron hawk/skyfisher/pretty much any flying, equip bonesplitter, smash face in. stinkweed imp is awesome but all those decks seem to have endless supplies of flyings, removal, and/or counterspells. I've been trying boarding in death's head buzzard to trade with delvers/kill hawks but i can never seem to stop them all.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Not drawing TE can be an issue, which is an issue for normal TE decks too I think. I'd add Sign in Blood before splashing blue for card drawing spells.
Honestly, a T1 Delver flipped on T2 and backed up by counters is hard for any deck to handle. The counters can be played around thanks to the low CC of your spells, but if you can't deal with the flipped delver you're toast.
WW on the other hand is not going to be easy to handle for the reasons you stated. The current deck you're playing doesn't have enough removal - which MonoBlack decks tend to pack in large quantities.
Additionally WW is the bane of MBC. Too many varied threats coming from all directions and color hate to boot. I imagine Goblins and Stompy may pose similar issues even though you've posted a 4-2 record vs Goblins.
I was looking towards alchemy, because it digs 4 cards deep, flashes back later, and also fills the graveyard up. it also doesn't deal damage to yourself.
goblins are easier because their strategy is to just throws non evasive dudes at you on the ground making it easy to clog the board they stabilize off of graveshells.
How much do you think adding some MBC stuff to deal with the aggro decks would help? putting in some stuff like tendrils of corruption and/or crypt rats?
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
I'd look at Doom Blade, Diabolic Edict, Geth's Verdict, Tragic Slip, etc. Tendrils is a good one as well since you can target yourself to get life if needed and drop a zombie in the GY, but watch using it on opponents...some will sac/kill their creature to prevent you from getting live.
Crypt Rats is also nice since it's a sweeper that hits everything and everyone...but it's another source of damage to you too. Just watch your life count.
I'm kind of wary of using some of those, especially the edict effects, because theyre all 1 for 1 or oppoenent getting to chose which dies while the problem is against swarms.
crypt rats was mostly because it also gives another way to combat storm decks with ETW.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
The plan isn't really aggro anymore. Its more of clog up the board, stabilize, with removal and life gain, then slowly grind out the win using tortured existence and gempalm. once you get that going, there's not much to do to stop it except dealing a lot of damage in one turn before you can gain it back with brownscale.
It still has trouble with white weenie and other really fast decks, but its more win-able than before.
The best matchups are Rats/UB Control. they basically try to win with removal and discard, which are fairly useless since 1/1s and 2/2s don't put enough pressure on to stop from recovering.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
New version:
Idea is to get some zombies and deal damage quickly then finish off with polluter who is ustoppable in pauper (not a spell, not combat, life loss not damage)
4 putrid imp
4 grave scabbler
4 gempalm polluter
4 golgari brownscale
3 stinkweed imp
4 butcher ghoul
3 shepard of rot
2 highborn ghoul
2 echoing decay
22 swamp
2 geth's verdict
4 faerie macabre
4 duress
2 echoing decay
3 snuff out
4 putrid imp
4 butcher ghoul
4 ghoul raiser
4 infectious host
4 grave scabbler
4 gempalm polluter
4 duress
3 Snuff out
21 swamp
4 fumespitter
1 snuff out
so lets develop this.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
Infectious host while it looks really utterly terrible on paper, is actually not terrible in actual games. most people don't block it because its a 1/1 and even when they do, its a 1/1 that you can recur later for extra points of damage. its not extremely aggressive, but its more a of a crude but effective body.
I'm defiantly looking at the shepard for a spot in the deck, as well as splashing green for putrid imp and possibly sideboarded brownscales. (if using both 2 drop cutting butcher ghoul and infectious host)
aside from just using TE with the normal dredgers, It still provides advantage in the same way looting does by providing better card quality, as well as with the scabbler . I do want to test an iteration using the dredgers to allow chaining of gempalm polluters together by using TE to get back polluter, cycle for damage and replace the craw with dredging then repeat.
Newest itteration testing dredgers:
4 putrid imp
4 grave scabbler
4 gempalm polluter
4 golgari brownscale
3 stinkweed imp
4 putrid leech
3 shepard of rot
3 echoing decay
13 swamp
2 terramorphic expanse
5 forest
3 evolving wild
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
It's not a Zombie, but Soulcage Fiend is very aggressive and can easily be recurred and sacced with Feeder for some reach. Organ Grinder is similar and a Zombie, but ultimately less effective IMO.
As said, Chant is pretty powerful especially with the Polluter. I also like Shepherd of Rot for the reach.
Tagged your cards for you. Its a pet peeve of mine when you mention something with no tags so we have no idea what it is without looking it up and hopefully finding it.
I agree no splashing unless its completely worth it and I don't think any other colored zombies are currently.One zombie that does the same kind of thing as Soulcage Fiend is Maggot Carrier if you prefer.
You should try out creatures that do things when they die.
I do have a list thats still mono black if the green splash doesn't work well. basically its just -4 leech +4 butcher ghoul; 22 swamps, +1 ghoulraiser
soulcage fiend is an interesting idea, but its hard enough to achieve a critical mass of zombies.
My original list had black cat and it was the first thing cut because it was just plain bad. I always had high hopes for it, but the fact is that its a 1/1 so its not a threat and it just sits there as a 2cmc 1/1 unless you have carrion feeder out. the same goes for the festering goblin which is why I replaced it with Putrid imp.
I'm finding that the best strategy with this is to put on some early pressure with beaters then once you find a TE and Polluter, the games over in a turn or two.
____________
Edit: mono black version has been preforming well. better than green splash
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
That said, I like adding green for the potential to include Scattershot Archers in the SB. They can really help to shut down MUC Faeries and WW - but really shine with the inclusion of Quirion Rangers. Unfortunately I don't think the ranger really fits this deck at all. Green may be best left out.
I like the 1.35 list with only a few issues.
I'm not a fan of Ghoulraiser. While it is a zombie and pulls one zombie from the GY to your hand it's random. What I really want back from the yard most of the time is the Polluter. I think it should be replaced with Ghoulcaller's Chant - which can recur 2 zombies from the yard or a single creature of your choice.
Golgari Brownscale as mentioned is good with TE and helps regain some life, but most TE decks only run 2 of them...unless I'm mistaken.
Shepherd of Rot - nice. Hurts you as well, but can turn a loss into a tie and can get extra damage through. Just weak to removal - especially sweepers like Seismic Shudder, Holy Light, etc. Still, it just feels like you have to run these. Maybe not so many though.
I'm thinking about the following changes:
-2 Golgari Brownscale
-1 Shepherd of Rot
-1 Ghoul Raiser
+4 Ghoulcaller's Chant
or possibly +3 Ghoulcaller's Chant and leave the extra Shepherd of add another Echoing Decay.
In your testing so far how has it faired vs Storm decks or Aggro?
The only other thing I wish could fit would be Unearth. It puts all of your creature back on the board except Grave Scrabbler, Brownscale and Gempalm (the last two which you don't really want on the board anyway) - plus it cycles. I just can't think of what I would pull for it - and with Ghoulcaller's Chant already included it's not really needed.
I'm interested to see your matchups and see some testing samples.
-RBJr on MTGO.
The primary wincon is Gempalm Polluter, not the Shepherd - who I'm not really all that thrilled about including.
One thing I'll definitely agree with is that the ghoulraiser sucks the big one. I never want to pay 3 for a creature and usually the random return effect is irrelevant. It got sideboarded out every match. It would be much better as another 1-2 drop. I want to cut it for another echoing decay or a ghoulcaller's chant, but one of the issues I've had is getting to 3 zombies on the battlefield to make the polluter and shepherd relevant.
went through the common legal zombies again, this time only ones that cost 1-2 cmc. highborn ghoul seems to be the next previously uplayable card to step up to the plate.
Crypt Creeper - 2/1 grave hate? not sure if thats relevant at all except vs other TE decks. meh. maybe sideboard
Carnophage - 2/2 for 1. its solid, not to enthused about more suicide, especially when it gets outclassed fairly easily. meh
Sangrophage - similar to carnophage just more mana and more pain. pretty much a really bad putrid leech. super meh
festering goblin - i guess it could be good... scraping the bottom of the barrel.
dredgescape zombie - unearthable 2/1. meh
highborn ghoul - 2/1 inftimidate. possibly relevant against a number of decks. unfortunatly he trades with rats. most likely of these to get called up and called "playable"
nightscape familiar/walking dead a 1/1 regenerator isn't terrible, but I'm not thrilled at having both 1 power and 1 toughness. very meh.
Null Champion (again a 1/1 but I could see this stealing a game or 2 as a mana sink. once it hits 7/3 regen, its somewhat tough to answer
Rotting rats - discard doesn't hurt this deck as bad sicne everything comes back... another possible madness enabler plus it unearths?
Skinthinner - 2/1 that can be a late game removal spell
These are my results so far:
4-3 vs UB Control (rats/drifter/teaching)
2-1 vs burn
6-2 vs UR Post (standard)
2-0 vs UR Post (w Sprout swarm)
1-0 UR burn/delver
4-2 goblins
0-2 white aggro
2-3 Infect
2-4 Storm
Against aggro decks its pretty much a matter of tossing dudes out there, finding a brownshell then widdling down their life total till they die.
control is landing a TE making pretty much all the removal and counterspells they have irrelevant then using the uncounterable wincon of polluter to kill them while they watch helplessly. against cloudpost i did have some games that just went carrion feeder, shepherd, then just layout more zombies and smash face since they don't have many early threats.
combo
Storm.... sideboard in duresses and echoing decays, smash face asap and pray you kill them first.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
1) I was apparently getting lucky during my first day or so of testing, but all of a sudden, I'm not drawing tortured existences in 85% of my games. not sure why but I'm going to test forbidden alchemy in the deck (and splashing blue)
2)evasive beaters. I've been having game after game of turn 1 delver, turn to flip, counter stinkweed imp and just smash face. Or guardian of the guildpact/squadron hawk/skyfisher/pretty much any flying, equip bonesplitter, smash face in. stinkweed imp is awesome but all those decks seem to have endless supplies of flyings, removal, and/or counterspells. I've been trying boarding in death's head buzzard to trade with delvers/kill hawks but i can never seem to stop them all.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
Honestly, a T1 Delver flipped on T2 and backed up by counters is hard for any deck to handle. The counters can be played around thanks to the low CC of your spells, but if you can't deal with the flipped delver you're toast.
WW on the other hand is not going to be easy to handle for the reasons you stated. The current deck you're playing doesn't have enough removal - which MonoBlack decks tend to pack in large quantities.
Additionally WW is the bane of MBC. Too many varied threats coming from all directions and color hate to boot. I imagine Goblins and Stompy may pose similar issues even though you've posted a 4-2 record vs Goblins.
goblins are easier because their strategy is to just throws non evasive dudes at you on the ground making it easy to clog the board they stabilize off of graveshells.
How much do you think adding some MBC stuff to deal with the aggro decks would help? putting in some stuff like tendrils of corruption and/or crypt rats?
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
Crypt Rats is also nice since it's a sweeper that hits everything and everyone...but it's another source of damage to you too. Just watch your life count.
crypt rats was mostly because it also gives another way to combat storm decks with ETW.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
4 Butcher ghoul
4 stinkweed imp
3 golgari brownscale
4 gempalm polluter
4 grave scabbler
4 tortured existence
4 sign in blood
3 echoing decay
The plan isn't really aggro anymore. Its more of clog up the board, stabilize, with removal and life gain, then slowly grind out the win using tortured existence and gempalm. once you get that going, there's not much to do to stop it except dealing a lot of damage in one turn before you can gain it back with brownscale.
It still has trouble with white weenie and other really fast decks, but its more win-able than before.
The best matchups are Rats/UB Control. they basically try to win with removal and discard, which are fairly useless since 1/1s and 2/2s don't put enough pressure on to stop from recovering.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff