My meta is Infect, Jund, and Burn, with a bunch of brews on top of that. My question is, in your experiences what deck would have a match advantage vs infect and jund at the same time? If its not bad vs burn thats just a bonus.
grixis midrange seem good against infect and jund (plenty of removal against infect, and snapcaster/command for recursion and beat the 2x1 philosophy of jund), problem is that burn is an HORRIBLE match up.
some kind of naya company maybe? where you can add a lot of removal (bolt/path), lifegain (kitchen finks, white SB, etc) and company that is great against burn (and reliquary becomes larger than goyf, loxodon smiter against liliana, etc).
grixis midrange seem good against infect and jund (plenty of removal against infect, and snapcaster/command for recursion and beat the 2x1 philosophy of jund), problem is that burn is an HORRIBLE match up.
some kind of naya company maybe? where you can add a lot of removal (bolt/path), lifegain (kitchen finks, white SB, etc) and company that is great against burn (and reliquary becomes larger than goyf, loxodon smiter against liliana, etc).
I've played Grixis midrange/control and delver and found infect is a pretty good matchup because of the disruption we have
I find jund is pretty back and fourth and can go either way
I hate playing against burn with any form of grixis though. we damage ourself too much
Abzan Company's best matchups are infect and burn. And it has a positive matchup against Jund. Abzan Company is just a hard deck to play, but it is extremely rewarding if you put the time in.
grixis midrange seem good against infect and jund (plenty of removal against infect, and snapcaster/command for recursion and beat the 2x1 philosophy of jund), problem is that burn is an HORRIBLE match up.
some kind of naya company maybe? where you can add a lot of removal (bolt/path), lifegain (kitchen finks, white SB, etc) and company that is great against burn (and reliquary becomes larger than goyf, loxodon smiter against liliana, etc).
The Jeskai lists with Ancestral visions are good against both of those decks and also good against burn.
Jeskai seems right. They have all the removal for Infect and Nahiri plus Visions can be tough for Jund. With access to Timely Reinforcements and Lightning Helix plus Snapcaster Mage then Burn should not be difficult either.
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I'd second that, BW Tokens has hugely favored match vs Jund, favored vs Burn, and 50/50 or slightly favored vs Infect which can be made much better via sideboard options like Celestial Flare, Runed Halo, and Duress. Plus its only downright terrible matchup is Tron, everything else for the most part is winnable with the right board options. Oh and Affinity you can beat on the draw game 1 which is something not many other decks can claim.
I play bw tokens splashed red for helix, bolt, and crackling doom. This makes the infect matchup about 75% favored or more. Jund/ Abzan has always been about 70% due to tokens making spot removals bad, having 4 path to exile, and having a superior late game.
Burn can be rough if you don't draw your lifegain cards and their hand is filled with pure burn. But all the removals and discard, as well as running 5 lifegain cards make the matchup at least 50%. Easily 60 to 70 after sideboard.
The bad matches would be combo and tron decks, due to a slow clock.
I thought Tron had a horrible matchup against Infect?
Me too... Infect and Burn are Tron's worst matchups as far as I know.
typically you run 4 pyroclasm main and have 3-4 spellskite in the sideboard. infect has a harder time fighting through that than burn does. which is why i say what i said.
I thought Tron had a horrible matchup against Infect?
Me too... Infect and Burn are Tron's worst matchups as far as I know.
typically you run 4 pyroclasm main and have 3-4 spellskite in the sideboard. infect has a harder time fighting through that than burn does. which is why i say what i said.
Pyroclasm doesn't hit Inkmoth Nexus, you need it on turn 2 or 3 otherwise it's too late and Infect has plenty of tools to kill Spellskite postboard.
inkmoth nexus is infects slowest creature to kill you with. Mana intensive. you can probably turn 3/4 karn liberated and remove nexus. Sideboard thats something you want pithing needle for over the duration of the game. plus some tron players may run an extra qhostquarter for inkmoth.
Abzan midrange (lingering souls, Lili, path, Siege Rhino, Khalitas (sp?) and all sorts of good stuff). The white splash vs red gives an edge over Jund in the head to head in my opinion, plus white offers some sideboard options that outright destroy the burn matchup while still being useful elsewhere in card such as timely reinforcements.
Grixis midrange/control is the second one, though only if the mana abase is build properly and you don't hurt yourself too much via shocks and fetches. If played smartly you can beat burn, plus an ancestral visions or two resolving is essentially GG vs Jund. This deck is more heavily favored vs Jund than Burn I would say.
Abzan company is of course another people have mentioned, but I personally can't stand the deck and wouldn't have any fun playing it.
I built a rogue brew R/B control deck that does well against both Infect and Jund. I won't bore you with a list unless you are interested but its not Tier 1, its a way to spike a meta. The idea though is that it runs 4 Terminate, 2 Dreadbore, 3 Gatekeeper of Malakir, 4 Geralf's Messenger, and 4 Vampire Hexmage. All that removal gives Jund and Infect fits because they can't get anything going. Hexmage is a great blocker against aggro and takes down Lili with Dreadbore. Messenger is hard for Jund to deal with as well. So yeah.
I guess my point is that you don't have to pick an established Tier 1 or 2 archetype. If its a local FNM meta then a rogue choice might be better than other established decks.
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The deck I play was popular for a month or so at the beginning of the year and I still find it to be very good. It crushes Jund, full stop, and is strongly favored vs, Infect. It is OK against Burn, especially post-board.
I out-Jund Jund with bigger creatures and more disruption, while most of my key creatures are Bolt, Abrupt Decay, and Inquisition-proof. Maindeck Relics neuter Goyf and Scooze while Lingering Souls gives them fits. Infect suffers against three maindeck Ghost Quarters plus four Lingering Souls and lots of disruption and removal.
Might be worth proxying up and trying a few dozen matches. My deck is weak to Scapeshift variants, Tron, and fast and wide aggro e.g. 8Whack. It dominates control and midrange builds and is favored vs. any decks that rely on the graveyard, e.g., Abzan CoCo and Eternal Witness or Reveillark builds. Lingering Souls plus Ghost Quarter and removal is also very good vs. Affinity. My deck list is in my sig and there is a thread for BW Processors in the Modern Deck Creation forum.
If you want to go slightly outside of the box, I play Dredge and my match ups vs jund and infect are very good. Free 1/1 fliers in the form of Narcomoeba are great against both decks, both have trouble dealing with Stinkweed in longer games, and GGT trumps anything jund is going to do without a very early scavenging ooze.
UWR Control is best against these two decks. UWR and the card advantage beats out jund top decks and has enough removal to make infect look like a joke.
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UWR Control is best against these two decks. UWR and the card advantage beats out jund top decks and has enough removal to make infect look like a joke.[/quot[quote from="RoKnRuiN1 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/704236-a-deck-that-has-advantage-vs-infect-and-jund?comment=28"]UWR Control is best against these two decks. UWR and the card advantage beats out jund top decks and has enough removal to make infect look like a joke.
I somewhat disagree about it being good against Jund. The Nahiri variant, in my opinion makes Jund an even (if not slightly positive) match up, but without Nahiri, Jund is difficult.
But otherwise, I totally agree on UWR making Infect look like a joke.
some kind of naya company maybe? where you can add a lot of removal (bolt/path), lifegain (kitchen finks, white SB, etc) and company that is great against burn (and reliquary becomes larger than goyf, loxodon smiter against liliana, etc).
I've played Grixis midrange/control and delver and found infect is a pretty good matchup because of the disruption we have
I find jund is pretty back and fourth and can go either way
I hate playing against burn with any form of grixis though. we damage ourself too much
also: We sideboard out kitchen finks vs. infect because they are miserable at blocking infect critters. Keep one maybe at most.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
The Jeskai lists with Ancestral visions are good against both of those decks and also good against burn.
that deck does decent against both of them.
burn it isn't so strong against.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I'd second that, BW Tokens has hugely favored match vs Jund, favored vs Burn, and 50/50 or slightly favored vs Infect which can be made much better via sideboard options like Celestial Flare, Runed Halo, and Duress. Plus its only downright terrible matchup is Tron, everything else for the most part is winnable with the right board options. Oh and Affinity you can beat on the draw game 1 which is something not many other decks can claim.
Burn can be rough if you don't draw your lifegain cards and their hand is filled with pure burn. But all the removals and discard, as well as running 5 lifegain cards make the matchup at least 50%. Easily 60 to 70 after sideboard.
The bad matches would be combo and tron decks, due to a slow clock.
typically you run 4 pyroclasm main and have 3-4 spellskite in the sideboard. infect has a harder time fighting through that than burn does. which is why i say what i said.
inkmoth nexus is infects slowest creature to kill you with. Mana intensive. you can probably turn 3/4 karn liberated and remove nexus. Sideboard thats something you want pithing needle for over the duration of the game. plus some tron players may run an extra qhostquarter for inkmoth.
Abzan midrange (lingering souls, Lili, path, Siege Rhino, Khalitas (sp?) and all sorts of good stuff). The white splash vs red gives an edge over Jund in the head to head in my opinion, plus white offers some sideboard options that outright destroy the burn matchup while still being useful elsewhere in card such as timely reinforcements.
Grixis midrange/control is the second one, though only if the mana abase is build properly and you don't hurt yourself too much via shocks and fetches. If played smartly you can beat burn, plus an ancestral visions or two resolving is essentially GG vs Jund. This deck is more heavily favored vs Jund than Burn I would say.
Abzan company is of course another people have mentioned, but I personally can't stand the deck and wouldn't have any fun playing it.
I guess my point is that you don't have to pick an established Tier 1 or 2 archetype. If its a local FNM meta then a rogue choice might be better than other established decks.
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I out-Jund Jund with bigger creatures and more disruption, while most of my key creatures are Bolt, Abrupt Decay, and Inquisition-proof. Maindeck Relics neuter Goyf and Scooze while Lingering Souls gives them fits. Infect suffers against three maindeck Ghost Quarters plus four Lingering Souls and lots of disruption and removal.
Might be worth proxying up and trying a few dozen matches. My deck is weak to Scapeshift variants, Tron, and fast and wide aggro e.g. 8Whack. It dominates control and midrange builds and is favored vs. any decks that rely on the graveyard, e.g., Abzan CoCo and Eternal Witness or Reveillark builds. Lingering Souls plus Ghost Quarter and removal is also very good vs. Affinity. My deck list is in my sig and there is a thread for BW Processors in the Modern Deck Creation forum.
Good luck!
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/4mm59g/my_take_on_dredge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/4nnink/undefeated_again_with_dredge/
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I somewhat disagree about it being good against Jund. The Nahiri variant, in my opinion makes Jund an even (if not slightly positive) match up, but without Nahiri, Jund is difficult.
But otherwise, I totally agree on UWR making Infect look like a joke.