Sundial of the Infinite is such an unusual card that I feel compelled to do strange things with it. Obviously we can use it to abuse many effects, but which cards work the best?
Here are some general categories. More ideas are appreciated.
Evoke Creatures
Sundial has a positive interaction with pact cards you cast, correct? (eg. pact of negation). Its a bit awkward because you have to end the turn during your own upkeep, but just a thought
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The foolish wish for that which they desire. The cunning wish for that which they require.
1 - End of Turn effects
2 - Instant negative effects that are added on to the stack that you can cast at the end of your second main phase and not really miss out on anything.
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9/22/2011: If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep).
You'll still lose the Kiki token (and anything else with that same type of trigger) during your opponent's end step. Of the things you've listed here only the evoke stuff can be abused.
Edit:
Hmmm, but if you activate the dial when the end step begins and you exile the exile trigger, then it seems you can get around what I just mentioned above. Question is, will it trigger again at the next end step?
The tech last standard season was to use Venser, the Sojourner to blink O-Rings, then end the turn in response to the LTB trigger. The O-Ring comes down your opponent's end step and eats his best thing.
You can also use Sundial to keep the angel tokens off of Geist of St. Traft.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Most of those are fair, but wouldn't your opponent have to be pretty terrible to crack a fetch EOT when you had mana and sundial up? I guess they could also just not understand how sundial works, though that will only work once on a given opponent ha.
If you were trying to make a deck out of it, i might look at legacy Stiflenaught for inspiration.... the concept is the same even if the cards really aren't.
EDIT: Would this actually work with evoke creatures? I don't consider myself a rules expert, but i was under the impression that you sacrified the creature as a cost upon resolution, which then put the etb effect on the stack. Thus not abusable with sundial.
Most of those are fair, but wouldn't your opponent have to be pretty terrible to crack a fetch EOT when you had mana and sundial up? I guess they could also just not understand how sundial works, though that will only work once on a given opponent ha.
If you were trying to make a deck out of it, i might look at legacy Stiflenaught for inspiration.... the concept is the same even if the cards really aren't.
EDIT: Would this actually work with evoke creatures? I don't consider myself a rules expert, but i was under the impression that you sacrified the creature as a cost upon resolution, which then put the etb effect on the stack. Thus not abusable with sundial.
You will catch a lot of people at least once, as it's pretty much muscle memory to cast things EoT, or in response.
It does work with evoke: When you pay an evoke cost you create a triggered ability which uses the stack and can be responded to. In fact when an evoke'd creature comes into play you can stack its own trigger to resolve first and then end your turn before you resolve the sacrifice trigger.
Just remember some evoke creatures don't trigger unless they LEAVE the battlefield. Torpor orb will stop an evoked creature both from being sacrificed AND having it's own ability go off. Ingot Chewer:Combos with Sundial, is just undercosted with Torpor Orb Spitebellows: Is undercosted with Sundial, combos with Torpor Orb.
How about goryo's vengeance with sundial. Pitch an emrakul, goryo's it, sundial. If there's a 1 mana permanent that lets you discard a card when you need it, it's an easy turn 3 emrakul.
How about goryo's vengeance with sundial. Pitch an emrakul, goryo's it, sundial. If there's a 1 mana permanent that lets you discard a card when you need it, it's an easy turn 3 emrakul.
Since Goryo's lets you actually hit them with said Emrakul, I doubt the Sundial would be necessary.
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Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Lol @ Sudden Disappearance. That is a thoroughly wicked and hilarious plan
Sad face that it is non land permanents. I was hoping for a one sided armageddon as well.
Just remember if you use the evoke creatures you need to put the sacrifice trigger on the stack first so you can let the draw / kill effect resolve and then respond to the sacrifice effect with sundial.
I do not know if it was said but it works with the unearth mechanic well
Also you can battalion and keep it such as forever stronger boros elite, same goes for battle cry such as Accorder Paladin
Perhaps a white red agro deck could work around that and the acts, such as act of treason allowing forever take over
to bad you can't use final fortune and last chance
"If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)."
So you will still loose, at least as I interpret it.
Sundial has a positive interaction with pact cards you cast, correct? (eg. pact of negation). Its a bit awkward because you have to end the turn during your own upkeep, but just a thought
Not really, because you're effectively timewalking yourself.
I do not know if it was said but it works with the unearth mechanic well
Also you can battalion and keep it such as forever stronger boros elite, same goes for battle cry such as Accorder Paladin
Perhaps a white red agro deck could work around that and the acts, such as act of treason allowing forever take over
to bad you can't use final fortune and last chance
Can you use Timesifter and end the turn if they get the trigger to stop them from getting the extra turn?
*I might have to try out that agro idea seems funny but not good if you can't get sundial, worth a shot
You are confusing "At End of Turn" with "Until End of Turn". Sundial is capable of abusing "At End of Turn" effects, not "Until End of Turn" effects.
It is not possible to abuse Waterveil with it because the counter is not placed until after the Colon. If you had a planeswalker that was plused in loyalty for a negative effect you could grow the walker and dodge the effect, this might be interesting with LOTV in the corner case where you don't want to force symmetrical discard.
You can't abuse Timesifter unless you have a card that allows you to see the top of their library. However it seems like you'd still be losing out because denying him a turn denies you a drawstep and the rest of your turn.
You could use this in the sideboard of a control deck for mirror matches.
It would basically act as a permanent counter spell to stop people from flashing in a clique or a snapcaster, or even just trying to bolt you on your end step.
It's not super powerful, and it could easily be played around, but it would work. And it would force your opponent to play those cards on their turn wich would mean that they might not be able to hold up counter magic.
Not sure if that's worth testing or not. It's still an intresting card, and there are some cool combos that you could pull off.
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Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
You could use this in the sideboard of a control deck for mirror matches.
It would basically act as a permanent counter spell to stop people from flashing in a clique or a snapcaster, or even just trying to bolt you on your end step.
It's not super powerful, and it could easily be played around, but it would work. And it would force your opponent to play those cards on their turn wich would mean that they might not be able to hold up counter magic.
Not sure if that's worth testing or not. It's still an intresting card, and there are some cool combos that you could pull off.
So what are you going to do when they try to upkeep these things against you? Timewalk yourself?
It's an on-board trick that only works on your turn. You better have something good to abuse it with if you're putting it into your 75.
I do not know if it was said but it works with the unearth mechanic well
Also you can battalion and keep it such as forever stronger boros elite, same goes for battle cry such as Accorder Paladin
Perhaps a white red agro deck could work around that and the acts, such as act of treason allowing forever take over
to bad you can't use final fortune and last chance
Can you use Timesifter and end the turn if they get the trigger to stop them from getting the extra turn?
*I might have to try out that agro idea seems funny but not good if you can't get sundial, worth a shot
None of these work.
The battalion and Battlecry abilities don't end as triggered abilities, and thus can't be exiled from the stack by ending your turn.
Megosi doesn't work either because the effect that puts the counter on it is the same effect that causes you to skip a turn. If one part resolves the other does.
Timesifter, however, is weird. In normal situations you cannot activate Sundial mid-resolution of Timesifter's reveal ability, but what you CAN do is know the top card of your library is going to be a loser and end your turn. If you end your turn before Timesifter gives out a bonus turn, the person whose turn it was going to be BEFORE the Timesifter gave out bonus turns will have the next turn. Since Timesifter activates first during your opponent's upkeep that would make the next turn yours. (Usually this doesn't matter since Timesifter puts bonus turns on top of bonus turns and you never return to the natural turn order)
"If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)."
So you will still loose, at least as I interpret it.
If you activate Sundial before the endstep, yes you will lose.
However, if you wait for the delayed triggered ability to go onto the stack and THEN end your turn, the ability will be exiled and thus countered. The key is waiting for the abilities to trigger before ending your turn.
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What's the big deal? You could have played multiple Righteous Avengers for years now.
Here are some general categories. More ideas are appreciated.
Evoke Creatures
Echo Creatures
Next-End-Step Creatures
Next-End-Step Non-Creature
It will probably end up something like a blink deck, albeit with some occasionally crushing interactions (like Sudden Disappearance).
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Legacy: B currently brewing... W
EDH: RRosheen Meanderer G
1 - End of Turn effects
2 - Instant negative effects that are added on to the stack that you can cast at the end of your second main phase and not really miss out on anything.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
You'll still lose the Kiki token (and anything else with that same type of trigger) during your opponent's end step. Of the things you've listed here only the evoke stuff can be abused.
Edit:
Hmmm, but if you activate the dial when the end step begins and you exile the exile trigger, then it seems you can get around what I just mentioned above. Question is, will it trigger again at the next end step?
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
Edit: it wont trigger again if the text sais "at ... of the NEXT ..." if it sais next it opnly triggers once.
You can also use Sundial to keep the angel tokens off of Geist of St. Traft.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
The Hunted Cycle
and when an opponet tries an EOT fetchland.
Most of those are fair, but wouldn't your opponent have to be pretty terrible to crack a fetch EOT when you had mana and sundial up? I guess they could also just not understand how sundial works, though that will only work once on a given opponent ha.
If you were trying to make a deck out of it, i might look at legacy Stiflenaught for inspiration.... the concept is the same even if the cards really aren't.
EDIT: Would this actually work with evoke creatures? I don't consider myself a rules expert, but i was under the impression that you sacrified the creature as a cost upon resolution, which then put the etb effect on the stack. Thus not abusable with sundial.
You will catch a lot of people at least once, as it's pretty much muscle memory to cast things EoT, or in response.
It does work with evoke: When you pay an evoke cost you create a triggered ability which uses the stack and can be responded to. In fact when an evoke'd creature comes into play you can stack its own trigger to resolve first and then end your turn before you resolve the sacrifice trigger.
Just remember some evoke creatures don't trigger unless they LEAVE the battlefield. Torpor orb will stop an evoked creature both from being sacrificed AND having it's own ability go off.
Ingot Chewer:Combos with Sundial, is just undercosted with Torpor Orb
Spitebellows: Is undercosted with Sundial, combos with Torpor Orb.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=429682
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Since Goryo's lets you actually hit them with said Emrakul, I doubt the Sundial would be necessary.
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Sad face that it is non land permanents. I was hoping for a one sided armageddon as well.
Just remember if you use the evoke creatures you need to put the sacrifice trigger on the stack first so you can let the draw / kill effect resolve and then respond to the sacrifice effect with sundial.
Also you can battalion and keep it such as forever stronger boros elite, same goes for battle cry such as Accorder Paladin
Perhaps a white red agro deck could work around that and the acts, such as act of treason allowing forever take over
to bad you can't use final fortune and last chance
anyone know if it is possible to abuse Magosi, the Waterveil with it?
Can you use Timesifter and end the turn if they get the trigger to stop them from getting the extra turn?
*I might have to try out that agro idea seems funny but not good if you can't get sundial, worth a shot
"If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)."
So you will still loose, at least as I interpret it.
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Nope. If you let the card's "beginning of the next end step" trigger occur, then end the turn in response, it won't trigger again.
except in the case of ball lightning specifically:
2/1/2007: The creature is sacrificed at the end of every turn in which it is on the battlefield. There is no choice about what turn to sacrifice it.
So, you can save it on your turn, but cannot save it on the opponents, thus it dies. Unlike Geist of saint traft and the angel tokens
Not really, because you're effectively timewalking yourself.
You are confusing "At End of Turn" with "Until End of Turn". Sundial is capable of abusing "At End of Turn" effects, not "Until End of Turn" effects.
It is not possible to abuse Waterveil with it because the counter is not placed until after the Colon. If you had a planeswalker that was plused in loyalty for a negative effect you could grow the walker and dodge the effect, this might be interesting with LOTV in the corner case where you don't want to force symmetrical discard.
You can't abuse Timesifter unless you have a card that allows you to see the top of their library. However it seems like you'd still be losing out because denying him a turn denies you a drawstep and the rest of your turn.
It would basically act as a permanent counter spell to stop people from flashing in a clique or a snapcaster, or even just trying to bolt you on your end step.
It's not super powerful, and it could easily be played around, but it would work. And it would force your opponent to play those cards on their turn wich would mean that they might not be able to hold up counter magic.
Not sure if that's worth testing or not. It's still an intresting card, and there are some cool combos that you could pull off.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
So what are you going to do when they try to upkeep these things against you? Timewalk yourself?
It's an on-board trick that only works on your turn. You better have something good to abuse it with if you're putting it into your 75.
None of these work.
The battalion and Battlecry abilities don't end as triggered abilities, and thus can't be exiled from the stack by ending your turn.
Megosi doesn't work either because the effect that puts the counter on it is the same effect that causes you to skip a turn. If one part resolves the other does.
Timesifter, however, is weird. In normal situations you cannot activate Sundial mid-resolution of Timesifter's reveal ability, but what you CAN do is know the top card of your library is going to be a loser and end your turn. If you end your turn before Timesifter gives out a bonus turn, the person whose turn it was going to be BEFORE the Timesifter gave out bonus turns will have the next turn. Since Timesifter activates first during your opponent's upkeep that would make the next turn yours. (Usually this doesn't matter since Timesifter puts bonus turns on top of bonus turns and you never return to the natural turn order)
If you activate Sundial before the endstep, yes you will lose.
However, if you wait for the delayed triggered ability to go onto the stack and THEN end your turn, the ability will be exiled and thus countered. The key is waiting for the abilities to trigger before ending your turn.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.