This is a new deck that has been popping up on MTGO in recent weeks and had a couple of finishes in the July 2016 WMCQ tournaments. It's a cantrip-heavy deck that focuses on either flipping a Thing in the Ice early or getting an active Pyromancer Ascension or two and winning with burn spells.
I took the deck for a spin in a few matches and it seems like it has some potential. It felt like a slightly less powerful, slightly more resilient version of the Jeskai Ascendancy deck that's not as explosive but harder to really hate out.
The main problem I can see is that this deck's Jund matchup is abysmal; you have no way to accelerate out a Blood Moon before turn 3 so it isn't too difficult for them to play around it, your threats all die to Abrupt Decay, and discard is pretty tough to deal with when you're going for a critical mass type of win. Something like Young Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor could be a decent sideboard option for this deck, because your deck is naturally built to take advantage of those cards, and it's unlikely people will be siding in sweepers after game 1.
I tried out Mentor/Pyro yesterday and they are way better than Blood Moon. Between the two, I'd say Mentor >> Pyro, it's one more mana but it's just so much more powerful once you get it online.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
In my testing this deck CANNOT beat Abrupt Decay and/or a smart opponent with Spell Snare. I beat Grixis Control twice and Abzan Aggro. But lost to Bant Eldrazi (Thought-Knot Seer was very good against the combo), UW Control, Jund, and Melira Company. That is 3/7 in matches played.
I think against a meta that does not have Rest In Peace or Abrupt Decay then this deck can take off. Until then it either needs tweaks or just luck in dodging bad matchups.
That said, the deck can grind surprisingly well. It made me want to have Kolaghan's Command to continue the grind and bring back my Thing in the Ice. But I don't think a 3 mana card is going to work in a 18 land deck.
Edit: I was referring to the deck grinding even after discard and removal destroys the first or second threat it lays down. I did win games with the 3rd of 4th threat which is something that impressed me.
What is your record with the deck (specific matchups please).
I am not saying that Melira Company is unbeatable, but it is by no means "easy." Even in my Jeskai Geist deck that packs 4 bolts, 4 helix, 4 path, 2 Kolaghan's, and 1 Crackling Doom, with 4 Snapcaster and 3 Restoration Angel (to flicker Snap and get even more removal)... I never found Melira to be "easy."
They have the capability to Collected Company and put 2 combo pieces into play and gain infinite life as early as turn 3 (Turn 2 finks/melira/seer, Turn 3 CoCo). The deck cannot beat infinite life.
I did note that the deck can grind out wins even after the first few win conditions are removed, but that doesn't make beating timely Abrupt Decay or Spell Snare any easier. And an early Rest In Peace single-handedly eliminates half of our win conditions. An opponent's open with Inquisition of Kozilek, to Abrupt Decay, to Any Threat will win the majority of the time against this deck. If the opponent has another hand disruption spell or removal spell, Scavenging Ooze or Rest in Peace then they should win the game.
Played with this deck, with Visions of Beyond, at a PPTQ yesterday going 1-3. It's definitely not a deck you want to take if you're pretty rusty, like I am, and it really seems to run best on 4 mana.
Played against GW aggro 2-0, Storm 0-2, Burn 0-2, and the Death's Shadow aggro 1-2. I didn't have a great sideboard plan for Storm, or the Death's Shadow deck.
Against the GW aggro deck he was able to land multiple Dryad Militant, and was able to develop a full board, but was stuck on 3 land both games, with CoCo in his hand. A flipped TiTi was able to return his board to his hand both games and I won pretty convincingly.
Against Storm, game 1 on the play, I was able to resolve a TiTi, and got him down to 2 by turn 5, but he was able to go off. I felt if I had sequenced and played my Ascension in my hand down 2 instead of the TiTi then I would've won.
Against Burn, he had the nuts, mine was slow, and I scooped Turn 3 game 1. Game 2 went back and forth, we both got flooded, he landed a Bedlam Reveler, I flipped my Titi to return his... Doh!! I realized too late that his reveler was a horror. I landed my own reveler, killed his, went to attack for the win and got deflecting palmed.
Nothing crazy against the Death's Shadow deck, except the game I won, I landed 2 Ascensions, and was able to kill him with 1 lightning bolt while he was at 8.
This deck is a lot of fun to play, but I feel it needs more interaction. It punishes you if you if your sequencing is off just a little, and I felt like I spent more time just trying to choose my land drops on turn 1 correctly than anything else.
Visions of Beyond seems to be like a "win more" and I always wanted something else in my hand each time I drew it, except when I had 2 Ascensions out. I always wanted to save it for later, and it just isn't really worth it most of the time and is awful when you draw into it in the early game. I could see Think Twice being a better option, or I was thinking about Quicken because I see a lot of value in casting Serum Visions, Gitaxian Probe and Faithless Looting on our opponents end step.
Lastly, I feel like Remand too often just sits in my hand and would like to replace it with Izzet Charm instead. It does all the things I want Remand to do whenever I'm holding remand.
How do people feel about Faithless Looting vs Desperate Ravings? Jon Finkel, in his Storm article, argues for Ravings in that deck. I'm just wondering if anybody has tested them both.
I don't know that this deck wants Ravings, as Finkel's list plays Past in Flames. I don't know that it would be worth the chance of pitching a TiTi.
A card I've been thinking about a bit, especially if Reveler becomes a thing, is Nahiri's Wrath. Multiple Planeswalkers seem difficult for this deck to handle, so maybe a wrath that can hit both creatures and Planeswalkers.
In addition to what hate_bear_foil_hunter says, one thing that makes Desperate Ravings excellent for UR Storm is Storm runs Goblin Electromancer. When Electromancer is in play and we cast Ravings, we pay only one red mana, but in turn gain two cards cards. We shouldn't care very much what we discard, because we can use Past in Flames on it.
Since URw Pyromancer/Thing Ascension doesn't run Goblin Electromancer, it's nice that Faithless Looting only costs R. This helps flip Thing in the Ice on turn three more consistently.
With Thing down on turn two along with three lands, flipping it that turn can happen with several combinations of cards in hand. Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose act as catalysts. Generally, hands with at least one catalyst will flip thing.
1x Gitaxian Probe + 3x any 1cmc instant/sorcery (Here your land acts as a limiting factor. Do you have right colors to cast the spells you need?)
With only two lands, Thing can still be flipped with two catalysts and two 1cmc instants/sorceries.
If we replace four 1cmc instant/sorceries with 2cmc instant/sorceries, we'll be less likely to flip Thing.
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What's up with Remand?
The card that feels awkward in my hand is Remand. I don't think I grasp how it wants to be used. Yes, it does return a spell to the opponents hand and digs one card deeper, but the same card can be used again as soon as the opponent untaps. I also understand we can dig through our entire library with two active Pyromancer Ascensions and a Manamorphose. Is that necessary? Isn't that a bit win more? Is there another card that would be better in the same spot?
Yeah, after a week of small (8 man) events, I agree with both of you that Looting is far superior to Ravings. The 1 extra mana makes a HUGE difference.
Regarding Remand, I've been using Izzet Charm and have been liking it. Its removal, a counterspell and more looting.
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[Modern] RBGU Dredge RBGU RG Ponza RG UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR] G Titania, Protector of Argoth G UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
It seems like it's best either as a Time Walk on T2 or when the opponent taps out or with an active Ascension to return your cards. In your experience, what decks are we happiest to have a Remand in hand when we're playing against them? I notice that SaffronOlive tends to board them out in his video series, but I know there must be good match-ups for it.
* * *
This is probably not the best deck for it, but uh, anyone have an idea of the best way to jam the Nahirikul package in here?
I didnt have time to read all the comments, but Bedlam Reveler seems like a great sideboard option against Junk, Jund and grixis type decks. Its decay and bolt-proof and can give you a leg up and a big beater if you run out of steam. I am running a Thing in the ice deck with 3 revelers mainboard and its working great (that deck doesnt want to combo off and has a bunch of other synergies in it, but its similar in casting a huge amount of low cmc spells to flip Thing in the ice)
Sam Black played a list with Reveler mainboard here:
Though in my opinion this deck that RYOICHI TAMADA played in worlds is better.
I didnt have time to read all the comments, but Bedlam Reveler seems like a great sideboard option against Junk, Jund and grixis type decks. Its decay and bolt-proof and can give you a leg up and a big beater if you run out of steam. I am running a Thing in the ice deck with 3 revelers mainboard and its working great (that deck doesnt want to combo off and has a bunch of other synergies in it, but its similar in casting a huge amount of low cmc spells to flip Thing in the ice)
I've been playtesting this deck on xmage to see if its worth it to buy into it on paper. It is definitely fun, but I've been having some problems with certain matchups. Abrupt Decays are atrocious, resolved Karn Liberated is sad and too much control in the form of counter spells could time walk us enough to lose. How can we solve those issues? What are your impressions on BGx, GR Tron, Grixis Delver and other similar matchups?
[edit] After losing hard for GR Tron again, I feel like relying on just 8 threats is insane. Sure, there is the possibility of nut draws and clean kills, but I feel like assembling more threats should be the way to go. Maybe dumping TiTi for pyros and mentors. I'm not even sure if pyromancer ascension is well positioned with the sheer amount of graveyard hate everywhere.
I've been playtesting this deck on xmage to see if its worth it to buy into it on paper. It is definitely fun, but I've been having some problems with certain matchups. Abrupt Decays are atrocious, resolved Karn Liberated is sad and too much control in the form of counter spells could time walk us enough to lose. How can we solve those issues? What are your impressions on BGx, GR Tron, Grixis Delver and other similar matchups?
For Tron you need to be faster (you can kill on turn 4 to 6 given the right draws and going into a loop) or side Blood Moon and Path to Exile in. Then you can surpress their mana base and kill their Wurmcoil Engines, which gives you 2 or 3 extra turn while they have to find and assemble an Oblivion stone. Path to Exile is important for their Wurmcoil Engine. Last time I won with Thing Ascension I simply had a Thing In the Ice on turn 2, turn 3 Pyromancers Ascension and a cantrip, turn 4 flip Thing in the Ice, activate Ascension and Lightning Bolt him/her two times, which got multiplied by 2. So I did 7 damage with Thing attacking and 2 x 2 x 3 equals 12 damage from Lightning Bolt - 29 damage in one turn. He then removed my board with an Oblivion Stone, but before he could get his Tron working and cast Wurmcoil I found that one Bolt to end it (I also had Path to Exile in hand).
So this is a way to beat Tron - be faster and/or disrupt. Tron is currently not that often played so I wouldn't change the SB. Also I thing this MU is atleast even as they rarely interact before turn 3. They might get their Tron working and slamming Karns and Ugin from then on onto the battlefield, but you get your stuff rarely countered which happens way more often with Grixis Delver. Maybe Bedlam Reveler is the answer here. As I wrote a post earlier Sam Black played that list - gonna try it out.
Also consider Thing Ascension is most likeley a fringe Tier 3 deck at the moment tho deck feels very narrow. You know when there was only Pyromancers Ascension the deck was not playable. With Thing in the Ice and given the right piloting you can certainly top 8 some GPs like Ryoichi Tamada did (he also played the deck at worlds, you should try to watch him play the deck on youtube):
Now consider what we could/can do with another card thats good with this archetype. Maybe this card is Reveler or aniother (not yet) existing card. I feel like one other card could push the deck over the edge. Like a better not so much situational cantrip as Visions of Beyond. I don't know.
You can already do wonders with the deck, because you got 8 good cards that can kill and only 4 of them are graveyard based and even that in a weird way that Grafdiggers Cage cannot stop
the combo. The solution could also be a more transformative sideboard - or the reveler.
What are your thoughts on it? I might try to make a primer in the next few weeks as I only play this deck and nothing else anymore
Greetings
King
//edit: As BruleRunnings said earlier Remand might be up to discuss it. While I sometimes had the feeling an Unsubstantiate could help as it effectively can counter uncounterable spells it could also bounce something on the board. But it doesn't cantrip and it's not "hard" countering the spell at all.
The card that feels awkward in my hand is Remand. I don't think I grasp how it wants to be used. Yes, it does return a spell to the opponents hand and digs one card deeper, but the same card can be used again as soon as the opponent untaps. I also understand we can dig through our entire library with two active Pyromancer Ascensions and a Manamorphose. Is that necessary? Isn't that a bit win more? Is there another card that would be better in the same spot?
I had no luck finding Tamada's footage on Worlds. Not sure if he ever got on camera given that he piloted the deck to a 1-3 finish in Modern rounds. Mansfield's Much Abrew About Nothing is what got my attention in the first place, and it is definitely a good watch. It is very unfortunate that he didn't get paired with a lot of problematic decks. I'm sure it would be awesome to listen to his thought process on sideboarding and sequencing.
I definitely feel that the deck has real tools and real threats. Just like UR delver decks, any new tempo tool could do it to push the deck to higher tiers. In my testing, though, I missed more counter spells than just the 3 Remands. Maybe Boros Charm could fix half our problems, and the cool part of it is that every mode is useful to the deck. I just don't know how to properly test these innovations as each cantrip that I take out will eventually make it harder to flip TiTi and turn on Ascension. There is a clear tradeoff between having answers and goldfishing.
A primer to discuss these options is definitely welcome, specially as this deck is getting more attention.
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Modern: BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH: UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
I had no luck finding Tamada's footage on Worlds. Not sure if he ever got on camera given that he piloted the deck to a 1-3 finish in Modern rounds. Mansfield's Much Abrew About Nothing is what got my attention in the first place, and it is definitely a good watch. It is very unfortunate that he didn't get paired with a lot of problematic decks. I'm sure it would be awesome to listen to his thought process on sideboarding and sequencing.
I definitely feel that the deck has real tools and real threats. Just like UR delver decks, any new tempo tool could do it to push the deck to higher tiers. In my testing, though, I missed more counter spells than just the 3 Remands. Maybe Boros Charm could fix half our problems, and the cool part of it is that every mode is useful to the deck. I just don't know how to properly test these innovations as each cantrip that I take out will eventually make it harder to flip TiTi and turn on Ascension. There is a clear tradeoff between having answers and goldfishing.
First I thought about Thought Scour, but I actually like that card partially necause the card is deart cheap and useful to get your counters on Ascension.
I think the solution could be trading 2 to 4 Visions of Beyond for Bedlam Reveler. Bedlam Reveler could be threat 10 to 12. Look at the multiple possible outcomes for Visions of Beyond:
< 20 cards in GY: draw 1 card
Ascebsion + < 20 cards in GY: draw 2cards
=/> 20 cards in GY: draw 3 cards
Ascension + =/> 20 cards in GY: draw 6 cards
While the cases where it really drew a huge margin of cards for me really did happenm, the situation was always me comboing off or winning more.
Now Bedlam gives you always three cards and getting 4 to 6 instants sorceries in your GY is easy as hell with this deck. The tradeoff of Reveler is of course that you lose two valuable instants. On the flipside you get a prowess body that can come down turn 5 easily with only RR as cost and threatens the enemy. The more threat dense the deck is while maintaining his grindy nature and getting more explosive at the same time, the better. You could even make an argument for Swiftspears, but than we are simply playing UR Bedlam Delver which is good, but kinda it makes the deck inconsistent. So Bedlam Reveler + 2, Visions of Beyond - 2.
A primer to discuss these options is definitely welcome, specially as this deck is getting more attention.
Already messaged the mods asking for permission to make one as I am a very new addition to the forum. But you can go ahead if you want You dont have to wait. If you do tho I am gonn do a Primer soon.
Sam Black played a variation of the deck and went 5-0 in an MTGO league. Vids are on SCG Free. Main difference is that he's running Swiftspears and Revellers in the main, and Things in the side. Also, its pure UR, no white splash for helix and other SB cards, but has 2 Noxious Revival for the Unstorm combo.
Sam Black played a variation of the deck and went 5-0 in an MTGO league. Vids are on SCG Free. Main difference is that he's running Swiftspears and Revellers in the main, and Things in the side. Also, its pure UR, no white splash for helix and other SB cards, but has 2 Noxious Revival for the Unstorm combo.
Ah, yes you are right. I missed that he did not splash W. What is your opinion on the two decks? I would like bringing in 2 or 3 Revelers in the UWR build, because 4 Revelers and 4 Swiftspears takes combo potential from us. Your opinion, Kitt?
New in this thread. But I have been toying around with Thing Ascension as well for about a month plus.
I like Sam Black's decision of not including Thing In The Ice MB, as it's kind of a nonbo with Monastery Swiftspear and Bedlam Reveler. Additionally, I like that Swiftspears offer early aggression and Revelers are just really good finisher. His version can technically be more tempo-aggressive than the usual Thing Ascension list.
Sticking to UR offers more consistency in terms of Mana and I like the inclusion of unstorm combo, which can be useful against the recent flood of Abzan lifegain decks.
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Here is an example list:
4 Thing in the Ice
Spells (38)
3 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Helix
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyromancer Ascension
3 Remand
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Dispel
2 Path to Exile
1 Remand
3 Rest for the Weary
2 Stony Silence
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
I took the deck for a spin in a few matches and it seems like it has some potential. It felt like a slightly less powerful, slightly more resilient version of the Jeskai Ascendancy deck that's not as explosive but harder to really hate out.
The main problem I can see is that this deck's Jund matchup is abysmal; you have no way to accelerate out a Blood Moon before turn 3 so it isn't too difficult for them to play around it, your threats all die to Abrupt Decay, and discard is pretty tough to deal with when you're going for a critical mass type of win. Something like Young Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor could be a decent sideboard option for this deck, because your deck is naturally built to take advantage of those cards, and it's unlikely people will be siding in sweepers after game 1.
Thoughts?
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
I think against a meta that does not have Rest In Peace or Abrupt Decay then this deck can take off. Until then it either needs tweaks or just luck in dodging bad matchups.
That said, the deck can grind surprisingly well. It made me want to have Kolaghan's Command to continue the grind and bring back my Thing in the Ice. But I don't think a 3 mana card is going to work in a 18 land deck.
Edit: I was referring to the deck grinding even after discard and removal destroys the first or second threat it lays down. I did win games with the 3rd of 4th threat which is something that impressed me.
I am not saying that Melira Company is unbeatable, but it is by no means "easy." Even in my Jeskai Geist deck that packs 4 bolts, 4 helix, 4 path, 2 Kolaghan's, and 1 Crackling Doom, with 4 Snapcaster and 3 Restoration Angel (to flicker Snap and get even more removal)... I never found Melira to be "easy."
They have the capability to Collected Company and put 2 combo pieces into play and gain infinite life as early as turn 3 (Turn 2 finks/melira/seer, Turn 3 CoCo). The deck cannot beat infinite life.
I did note that the deck can grind out wins even after the first few win conditions are removed, but that doesn't make beating timely Abrupt Decay or Spell Snare any easier. And an early Rest In Peace single-handedly eliminates half of our win conditions. An opponent's open with Inquisition of Kozilek, to Abrupt Decay, to Any Threat will win the majority of the time against this deck. If the opponent has another hand disruption spell or removal spell, Scavenging Ooze or Rest in Peace then they should win the game.
Played against GW aggro 2-0, Storm 0-2, Burn 0-2, and the Death's Shadow aggro 1-2. I didn't have a great sideboard plan for Storm, or the Death's Shadow deck.
Against the GW aggro deck he was able to land multiple Dryad Militant, and was able to develop a full board, but was stuck on 3 land both games, with CoCo in his hand. A flipped TiTi was able to return his board to his hand both games and I won pretty convincingly.
Against Storm, game 1 on the play, I was able to resolve a TiTi, and got him down to 2 by turn 5, but he was able to go off. I felt if I had sequenced and played my Ascension in my hand down 2 instead of the TiTi then I would've won.
Against Burn, he had the nuts, mine was slow, and I scooped Turn 3 game 1. Game 2 went back and forth, we both got flooded, he landed a Bedlam Reveler, I flipped my Titi to return his... Doh!! I realized too late that his reveler was a horror. I landed my own reveler, killed his, went to attack for the win and got deflecting palmed.
Nothing crazy against the Death's Shadow deck, except the game I won, I landed 2 Ascensions, and was able to kill him with 1 lightning bolt while he was at 8.
This deck is a lot of fun to play, but I feel it needs more interaction. It punishes you if you if your sequencing is off just a little, and I felt like I spent more time just trying to choose my land drops on turn 1 correctly than anything else.
Visions of Beyond seems to be like a "win more" and I always wanted something else in my hand each time I drew it, except when I had 2 Ascensions out. I always wanted to save it for later, and it just isn't really worth it most of the time and is awful when you draw into it in the early game. I could see Think Twice being a better option, or I was thinking about Quicken because I see a lot of value in casting Serum Visions, Gitaxian Probe and Faithless Looting on our opponents end step.
Bedlam Reveler seems quite nuts in this deck. I could see Soulfire Grand Master being pretty crazy as well, especially when going off with Manamorphose. Ojutai's Command and Wall of Omens could be solid in the sideboard. I just don't know if 8 burn spells are enough.
Lastly, I feel like Remand too often just sits in my hand and would like to replace it with Izzet Charm instead. It does all the things I want Remand to do whenever I'm holding remand.
Finkel's article, for reference:
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/taking-modern-by-storm/
RBGU Dredge RBGU
RG Ponza RG
UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR]
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB
UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
A card I've been thinking about a bit, especially if Reveler becomes a thing, is Nahiri's Wrath. Multiple Planeswalkers seem difficult for this deck to handle, so maybe a wrath that can hit both creatures and Planeswalkers.
In addition to what hate_bear_foil_hunter says, one thing that makes Desperate Ravings excellent for UR Storm is Storm runs Goblin Electromancer. When Electromancer is in play and we cast Ravings, we pay only one red mana, but in turn gain two cards cards. We shouldn't care very much what we discard, because we can use Past in Flames on it.
Since URw Pyromancer/Thing Ascension doesn't run Goblin Electromancer, it's nice that Faithless Looting only costs R. This helps flip Thing in the Ice on turn three more consistently.
With Thing down on turn two along with three lands, flipping it that turn can happen with several combinations of cards in hand. Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose act as catalysts. Generally, hands with at least one catalyst will flip thing.
With only two lands, Thing can still be flipped with two catalysts and two 1cmc instants/sorceries.
If we replace four 1cmc instant/sorceries with 2cmc instant/sorceries, we'll be less likely to flip Thing.
* * * * *
What's up with Remand?
The card that feels awkward in my hand is Remand. I don't think I grasp how it wants to be used. Yes, it does return a spell to the opponents hand and digs one card deeper, but the same card can be used again as soon as the opponent untaps. I also understand we can dig through our entire library with two active Pyromancer Ascensions and a Manamorphose. Is that necessary? Isn't that a bit win more? Is there another card that would be better in the same spot?
* * * * *
Videos?
I know of the following gameplay videos:
This video and others on the same Channel
And the MTGGoldfish series
Does anyone know of any others?
Yeah, after a week of small (8 man) events, I agree with both of you that Looting is far superior to Ravings. The 1 extra mana makes a HUGE difference.
Regarding Remand, I've been using Izzet Charm and have been liking it. Its removal, a counterspell and more looting.
RBGU Dredge RBGU
RG Ponza RG
UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR]
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB
UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
I can see the value in that.
It seems like it's best either as a Time Walk on T2 or when the opponent taps out or with an active Ascension to return your cards. In your experience, what decks are we happiest to have a Remand in hand when we're playing against them? I notice that SaffronOlive tends to board them out in his video series, but I know there must be good match-ups for it.
* * *
This is probably not the best deck for it, but uh, anyone have an idea of the best way to jam the Nahirikul package in here?
4 Thing in the Ice
Sorcery (11)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
3 Faithless Looting
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Thought Scour
4 Manamorphose
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Remand
4 Pyromancer Ascension
Land (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Rest for the Weary
2 Dispel
1 Swan Song
1 Wear // Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Path to Exile
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
Sam Black played a list with Reveler mainboard here:
Though in my opinion this deck that RYOICHI TAMADA played in worlds is better.
THING ASCENSION from RYOICHI TAMADA
4 Flooded Strand
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Manamorphose
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
4 Pyromancer Ascension
3 Remand
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Serum Visions
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Thought Scour
4 Visions of Beyond
3 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Path to Exile
3 Rest for the Weary
1 Swan Song
1 Wear // Tear
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Sam Black played a list with Reveler mainboard here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fobdULV1TGw
Though in my opinion this deck that RYOICHI TAMADA played in worlds is better.
4 Flooded Strand
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Manamorphose
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
4 Pyromancer Ascension
3 Remand
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Serum Visions
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Thought Scour
4 Visions of Beyond
3 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Path to Exile
3 Rest for the Weary
1 Swan Song
1 Wear // Tear
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I've been playtesting this deck on xmage to see if its worth it to buy into it on paper. It is definitely fun, but I've been having some problems with certain matchups. Abrupt Decays are atrocious, resolved Karn Liberated is sad and too much control in the form of counter spells could time walk us enough to lose. How can we solve those issues? What are your impressions on BGx, GR Tron, Grixis Delver and other similar matchups?
[edit] After losing hard for GR Tron again, I feel like relying on just 8 threats is insane. Sure, there is the possibility of nut draws and clean kills, but I feel like assembling more threats should be the way to go. Maybe dumping TiTi for pyros and mentors. I'm not even sure if pyromancer ascension is well positioned with the sheer amount of graveyard hate everywhere.
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
For Tron you need to be faster (you can kill on turn 4 to 6 given the right draws and going into a loop) or side Blood Moon and Path to Exile in. Then you can surpress their mana base and kill their Wurmcoil Engines, which gives you 2 or 3 extra turn while they have to find and assemble an Oblivion stone. Path to Exile is important for their Wurmcoil Engine. Last time I won with Thing Ascension I simply had a Thing In the Ice on turn 2, turn 3 Pyromancers Ascension and a cantrip, turn 4 flip Thing in the Ice, activate Ascension and Lightning Bolt him/her two times, which got multiplied by 2. So I did 7 damage with Thing attacking and 2 x 2 x 3 equals 12 damage from Lightning Bolt - 29 damage in one turn. He then removed my board with an Oblivion Stone, but before he could get his Tron working and cast Wurmcoil I found that one Bolt to end it (I also had Path to Exile in hand).
So this is a way to beat Tron - be faster and/or disrupt. Tron is currently not that often played so I wouldn't change the SB. Also I thing this MU is atleast even as they rarely interact before turn 3. They might get their Tron working and slamming Karns and Ugin from then on onto the battlefield, but you get your stuff rarely countered which happens way more often with Grixis Delver. Maybe Bedlam Reveler is the answer here. As I wrote a post earlier Sam Black played that list - gonna try it out.
Also consider Thing Ascension is most likeley a fringe Tier 3 deck at the moment tho deck feels very narrow. You know when there was only Pyromancers Ascension the deck was not playable. With Thing in the Ice and given the right piloting you can certainly top 8 some GPs like Ryoichi Tamada did (he also played the deck at worlds, you should try to watch him play the deck on youtube):
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/465906#paper
Now consider what we could/can do with another card thats good with this archetype. Maybe this card is Reveler or aniother (not yet) existing card. I feel like one other card could push the deck over the edge. Like a better not so much situational cantrip as Visions of Beyond. I don't know.
It's as Seth Manfield said in his Much Abrew about Nothing: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/much-abrew-about-nothing-thing-ascension-modern
You can already do wonders with the deck, because you got 8 good cards that can kill and only 4 of them are graveyard based and even that in a weird way that Grafdiggers Cage cannot stop
the combo. The solution could also be a more transformative sideboard - or the reveler.
What are your thoughts on it? I might try to make a primer in the next few weeks as I only play this deck and nothing else anymore
Greetings
King
//edit: As BruleRunnings said earlier Remand might be up to discuss it. While I sometimes had the feeling an Unsubstantiate could help as it effectively can counter uncounterable spells it could also bounce something on the board. But it doesn't cantrip and it's not "hard" countering the spell at all.
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I definitely feel that the deck has real tools and real threats. Just like UR delver decks, any new tempo tool could do it to push the deck to higher tiers. In my testing, though, I missed more counter spells than just the 3 Remands. Maybe Boros Charm could fix half our problems, and the cool part of it is that every mode is useful to the deck. I just don't know how to properly test these innovations as each cantrip that I take out will eventually make it harder to flip TiTi and turn on Ascension. There is a clear tradeoff between having answers and goldfishing.
A primer to discuss these options is definitely welcome, specially as this deck is getting more attention.
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
Yes, he had overall fairly nice matchups.
First I thought about Thought Scour, but I actually like that card partially necause the card is deart cheap and useful to get your counters on Ascension.
I think the solution could be trading 2 to 4 Visions of Beyond for Bedlam Reveler. Bedlam Reveler could be threat 10 to 12. Look at the multiple possible outcomes for Visions of Beyond:
< 20 cards in GY: draw 1 card
Ascebsion + < 20 cards in GY: draw 2cards
=/> 20 cards in GY: draw 3 cards
Ascension + =/> 20 cards in GY: draw 6 cards
While the cases where it really drew a huge margin of cards for me really did happenm, the situation was always me comboing off or winning more.
Now Bedlam gives you always three cards and getting 4 to 6 instants sorceries in your GY is easy as hell with this deck. The tradeoff of Reveler is of course that you lose two valuable instants. On the flipside you get a prowess body that can come down turn 5 easily with only RR as cost and threatens the enemy. The more threat dense the deck is while maintaining his grindy nature and getting more explosive at the same time, the better. You could even make an argument for Swiftspears, but than we are simply playing UR Bedlam Delver which is good, but kinda it makes the deck inconsistent. So Bedlam Reveler + 2, Visions of Beyond - 2.
Already messaged the mods asking for permission to make one as I am a very new addition to the forum. But you can go ahead if you want You dont have to wait. If you do tho I am gonn do a Primer soon.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Link: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/33596_Video-UR-Reveler-In-Modern.html
RBGU Dredge RBGU
RG Ponza RG
UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR]
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB
UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
Ah, yes you are right. I missed that he did not splash W. What is your opinion on the two decks? I would like bringing in 2 or 3 Revelers in the UWR build, because 4 Revelers and 4 Swiftspears takes combo potential from us. Your opinion, Kitt?
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I like Sam Black's decision of not including Thing In The Ice MB, as it's kind of a nonbo with Monastery Swiftspear and Bedlam Reveler. Additionally, I like that Swiftspears offer early aggression and Revelers are just really good finisher. His version can technically be more tempo-aggressive than the usual Thing Ascension list.
Sticking to UR offers more consistency in terms of Mana and I like the inclusion of unstorm combo, which can be useful against the recent flood of Abzan lifegain decks.