SCG bumped city of traitors up to $100 and are sold out and have just 9 MP copies at 80.
Manipulate foil is sold out on SCG at $10 as well, not that unusual since it's from invasion.
Misthollow griffin has no supply issue. SCG has 52 NM in stock at 2.49, 21 at 2.25, and 17 MP at 2. Although it could get bought out rather easily at those prices since it's so cheap. But food chain is the right card to target, masques rare that isn't getting reprinted ever end of story/hard to find.
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1) It's a bad idea to panic buy fringe deck staples after one Top 8 at a SCG event. There are lots of big Legacy events and there's nothing new to make Food Chain a Tier 1 deck.
2) It's a somewhat worse idea when that T8 can probably be revoked due to cheating (he failed to remove Submerge from his board for game 1 vs. Maverick)
3) Taiga and Plateau at $80 makes no sense when Badlands is $60.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
But food chain is the right card to target, masques rare that isn't getting reprinted ever end of story/hard to find.
Why wouldn't Food Chain ever get reprinted?
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
But food chain is the right card to target, masques rare that isn't getting reprinted ever end of story/hard to find.
Why wouldn't Food Chain ever get reprinted?
They're not going to want it in Modern. It's either useless or broken.
Seems like it could fit well in a supplemental product though... C14 maybe?
This is my thought.
I love how modern has to be handled with kid gloves. lol
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Don't know if anyone else noticed this today but combo duals like Volcanics and Seas went to 300 over the weekend on SCG. A few other cards like Stifle and the sol lands are now double what they were a few weeks ago.
Yeah if you go back a page or two you'll notice there were plenty of groans about that hike:( i got my lands in the mail already, but this all feels soo wrong
SCG ran out of cash at both Richmond AND LA apparently, and Chas mentioned on today a side effect of Modern's boom is that players are now using the nice buylist prices to convert their Modern staples into Legacy ones. It's a very reasonable explanation, and explains a lot about the timing of this boom and why the liquidity's dying up.
SCG ran out of cash at both Richmond AND LA apparently, and Chas mentioned on today a side effect of Modern's boom is that players are now using the nice buylist prices to convert their Modern staples into Legacy ones. It's a very reasonable explanation, and explains a lot about the timing of this boom and why the liquidity's dying up.
I'm not sure I understand. How does one affect the other? Doesn't SCG running out of cash to buy things means that they have set their buylist prices too high and are going to be flooded with extra stock? How does this mean that "liquidity's dying up"?
SCG ran out of cash at both Richmond AND LA apparently, and Chas mentioned on today a side effect of Modern's boom is that players are now using the nice buylist prices to convert their Modern staples into Legacy ones. It's a very reasonable explanation, and explains a lot about the timing of this boom and why the liquidity's dying up.
I'm not sure I understand. How does one affect the other? Doesn't SCG running out of cash to buy things means that they have set their buylist prices too high and are going to be flooded with extra stock? How does this mean that "liquidity's dying up"?
What appears to be happening is that players who were sitting on Modern stuff that skyrocketed are selling a lot of it to dealers, and then turning around and buying the Legacy cards they need. Since there's more Modern cards than Legacy ones... its resulting in a demand spike.
The reason the buy prices are so high is because people just aren't selling their Legacy staples anymore. I'm an example- I'm working towards a playset of duals (currently 13, about to be 15 deep), and when I buy them, they're not going on the market unless some sort of emergency comes up.
What appears to be happening is that players who were sitting on Modern stuff that skyrocketed are selling a lot of it to dealers, and then turning around and buying the Legacy cards they need. Since there's more Modern cards than Legacy ones... its resulting in a demand spike.
The reason the buy prices are so high is because people just aren't selling their Legacy staples anymore. I'm an example- I'm working towards a playset of duals (currently 13, about to be 15 deep), and when I buy them, they're not going on the market unless some sort of emergency comes up.
Why would that be the case? If the players in Richmond and LA were converting modern to legacy, why would SCG run out of cash? Wouldn't the same people who sold their Modern staples just turn around and immediately buy legacy cards from them? Or even just take the store credit instead of cash?
The fact that SCG ran out of cash would suggest (to me, anyway) that they misjudged their buy prices and overbought. If they ran out of legacy staples, they'd just raise their buy prices on those instead.
What appears to be happening is that players who were sitting on Modern stuff that skyrocketed are selling a lot of it to dealers, and then turning around and buying the Legacy cards they need. Since there's more Modern cards than Legacy ones... its resulting in a demand spike.
The reason the buy prices are so high is because people just aren't selling their Legacy staples anymore. I'm an example- I'm working towards a playset of duals (currently 13, about to be 15 deep), and when I buy them, they're not going on the market unless some sort of emergency comes up.
Why would that be the case? If the players in Richmond and LA were converting modern to legacy, why would SCG run out of cash? Wouldn't the same people who sold their Modern staples just turn around and immediately buy legacy cards from them? Or even just take the store credit instead of cash?
The fact that SCG ran out of cash would suggest (to me, anyway) that they misjudged their buy prices and overbought. If they ran out of legacy staples, they'd just raise their buy prices on those instead.
Running out of cash means a lot of people are selling to them but raising buy prices at the same time means that people aren't selling Legacy cards to them.
There are hundreds of cards that can fit well in supplemental products. Do they ever see print in said supplemental products? Once in a blue moon sure. But food chain is definitely not getting reprinted into standard as it is a repeatable ritual that is broken with something that WotC has been pushing the past 5 years: creatures. Chances of a reprint are slim to none regarding food chain.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Don't know if anyone else noticed this today but combo duals like Volcanics and Seas went to 300 over the weekend on SCG. A few other cards like Stifle and the sol lands are now double what they were a few weeks ago.
If things like that are happening, I think it's safe to say Legacy's reaching its sustainability limit. It's honestly reaching Vintage levels of "you must be super rich to buy into no-proxy events." I think it'll be interesting to see if those prices are a bubble or not.
If things like that are happening, I think it's safe to say Legacy's reaching its sustainability limit. It's honestly reaching Vintage levels of "you must be super rich to buy into no-proxy events." I think it'll be interesting to see if those prices are a bubble or not.
Vintage reached the point a long time ago where the influx of new players slowed to a halt. The format isn't played much any more, especially non-proxy events.
But what happened to Vintage prices? Did power nine prices go down in value like the bursting of a bubble? No, they didn't! As format growth slowed down, so did staple price increase. But the prices didn't drop - they still rise slowly (I'm aware of the recent spikes). So why on earth do people think Legacy prices will suddenly fall through the floor just because hardly any new players will be buying in?
The only way these prices fall (barring huge reprint runs) is if there is a massive exodus from competitive Legacy. This is unlikely - most Legacy players with large card-pools love the format and have a regular game to play in. Maybe the high values will encourage some less devoted players to sell out - but only if the prices stay high. If they start drop that motivation is gone.
Yes - these huge price hikes are going to stagnate format growth at some point (probably very soon). That does not in any way imply that the high prices are unstable or a "bubble". Unless you think the demand is artificially created by market manipulation rather than real demand. Tournament attendance suggests the price hikes are the result of format growth.
I think more and more of the legacy stuff will be hitting collections and edh holders where it is not coming back to competitive Magic.
As far as SCG they are only going to bring so many thousands of dollars in cash to an event without armed guards. They can't buy the fetches/modern staples fast enough, hence the buy prices keep moving up. The people buying those cards aren't paying in cash. It is a logistical nightmare. And I can only imagine the accountants dealing with all of this. It is fine for a small shop to have a couple quick journal lines, but explaining to the government about your inventory changing by hundreds of thousands of dollars, cash payments to dozens of people a day in the thousands, and how the tax liability works on trade in....
No matter how you slice it the demand is on fire right now.
It doesn't have to be "market manipulation." It just has to be some percentage of value being assigned by buyers strictly as an investment. The more that is, the more room you have to fall if confidence crashes.
Think about it this way. If you knew for a fact you could never sell your Misty Rainforest for $100, that the money you spent on it was GONE once you spent it, would you still pay that much? I suspect it would take the most hardcore spike to say "yes" to that question. If we have a market where a good chunk of the buyers are paying for cards ENTIRELY because of the potential resale value, then we have many people who will panic if something happens.
That something is GOING to happen, but no one knows when. If Legacy staples were $500 each, forgery mills would be stupid not to perfect Magic cards and print cash. That's one way it could go down. Another way might be a stupid business decision by Rosewater's successors, or a bankruptcy by Hasbro, or who knows what.
Bottom line: A market built on buyers paying for utility is robust. A market built on the idea that someone will always pay more (greater fool) is fragile.
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Manipulate foil is sold out on SCG at $10 as well, not that unusual since it's from invasion.
Misthollow griffin has no supply issue. SCG has 52 NM in stock at 2.49, 21 at 2.25, and 17 MP at 2. Although it could get bought out rather easily at those prices since it's so cheap. But food chain is the right card to target, masques rare that isn't getting reprinted ever end of story/hard to find.
Currently Playing:
Retired
2) It's a somewhat worse idea when that T8 can probably be revoked due to cheating (he failed to remove Submerge from his board for game 1 vs. Maverick)
3) Taiga and Plateau at $80 makes no sense when Badlands is $60.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Why wouldn't Food Chain ever get reprinted?
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
They're not going to want it in Modern. It's either useless or broken.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Seems like it could fit well in a supplemental product though... C14 maybe?
Legacy
Control
Miracles
All flavors of Stoneblade
Aggro
Grixis Delver
UR Delver
Burn
Combo
Dredge
TES/ANT
UR & UB Reanimator
Belcher
This is my thought.
I love how modern has to be handled with kid gloves. lol
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
RIP Karn EDH
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
I'm not sure I understand. How does one affect the other? Doesn't SCG running out of cash to buy things means that they have set their buylist prices too high and are going to be flooded with extra stock? How does this mean that "liquidity's dying up"?
What appears to be happening is that players who were sitting on Modern stuff that skyrocketed are selling a lot of it to dealers, and then turning around and buying the Legacy cards they need. Since there's more Modern cards than Legacy ones... its resulting in a demand spike.
The reason the buy prices are so high is because people just aren't selling their Legacy staples anymore. I'm an example- I'm working towards a playset of duals (currently 13, about to be 15 deep), and when I buy them, they're not going on the market unless some sort of emergency comes up.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Why would that be the case? If the players in Richmond and LA were converting modern to legacy, why would SCG run out of cash? Wouldn't the same people who sold their Modern staples just turn around and immediately buy legacy cards from them? Or even just take the store credit instead of cash?
The fact that SCG ran out of cash would suggest (to me, anyway) that they misjudged their buy prices and overbought. If they ran out of legacy staples, they'd just raise their buy prices on those instead.
Running out of cash means a lot of people are selling to them but raising buy prices at the same time means that people aren't selling Legacy cards to them.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Currently Playing:
Retired
If things like that are happening, I think it's safe to say Legacy's reaching its sustainability limit. It's honestly reaching Vintage levels of "you must be super rich to buy into no-proxy events." I think it'll be interesting to see if those prices are a bubble or not.
Vintage reached the point a long time ago where the influx of new players slowed to a halt. The format isn't played much any more, especially non-proxy events.
But what happened to Vintage prices? Did power nine prices go down in value like the bursting of a bubble? No, they didn't! As format growth slowed down, so did staple price increase. But the prices didn't drop - they still rise slowly (I'm aware of the recent spikes). So why on earth do people think Legacy prices will suddenly fall through the floor just because hardly any new players will be buying in?
The only way these prices fall (barring huge reprint runs) is if there is a massive exodus from competitive Legacy. This is unlikely - most Legacy players with large card-pools love the format and have a regular game to play in. Maybe the high values will encourage some less devoted players to sell out - but only if the prices stay high. If they start drop that motivation is gone.
Yes - these huge price hikes are going to stagnate format growth at some point (probably very soon). That does not in any way imply that the high prices are unstable or a "bubble". Unless you think the demand is artificially created by market manipulation rather than real demand. Tournament attendance suggests the price hikes are the result of format growth.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
As far as SCG they are only going to bring so many thousands of dollars in cash to an event without armed guards. They can't buy the fetches/modern staples fast enough, hence the buy prices keep moving up. The people buying those cards aren't paying in cash. It is a logistical nightmare. And I can only imagine the accountants dealing with all of this. It is fine for a small shop to have a couple quick journal lines, but explaining to the government about your inventory changing by hundreds of thousands of dollars, cash payments to dozens of people a day in the thousands, and how the tax liability works on trade in....
No matter how you slice it the demand is on fire right now.
A few copies on ebay for as much as 40 dollars... Good lord.
Think about it this way. If you knew for a fact you could never sell your Misty Rainforest for $100, that the money you spent on it was GONE once you spent it, would you still pay that much? I suspect it would take the most hardcore spike to say "yes" to that question. If we have a market where a good chunk of the buyers are paying for cards ENTIRELY because of the potential resale value, then we have many people who will panic if something happens.
That something is GOING to happen, but no one knows when. If Legacy staples were $500 each, forgery mills would be stupid not to perfect Magic cards and print cash. That's one way it could go down. Another way might be a stupid business decision by Rosewater's successors, or a bankruptcy by Hasbro, or who knows what.
Bottom line: A market built on buyers paying for utility is robust. A market built on the idea that someone will always pay more (greater fool) is fragile.