I recently sold a Beta Badlands together with an Alpha Underground sea for a total of $6400 on eBay (yeah I know, 'don't sell on eBay.')
The Sea had an issue with the top corner and upper rim being inked by some idiot previous owner attempting to cover up signs of wear. I disclosed this in the auction and was very surprised to see it still sell for over $4,000.
i also sold a Beta Badlands which in my estimation had NO issues with it, and I put it down as condition Lightly Played which is accurate. It sold for $1,400.
One buyer bought both. But has now initiated a return request, he said the inking was a lot worse than I described. I thought about it and realized he probably has a point. If he got the Sea, wasn't comfortable with how much he spent given this issue, and he wants the return, I understand.
But, the kicker is he's also returning the Beta Badlands which doesn't have any issues with it, and he referred to "cards" plural, as if there was something wrong with the badlands which there is not. He also said the inking was widespread, which it is not, so that's another red flag.
So, first, I should mention this buyer has 550 transactions rated, 100% positive reviews, and mostly CCG related, which is a good thing. He's sounded pretty courteous and professional in correspondences, but this of course doesn't mean anything.
So I started reading about how, if selling cards on eBay or any similar platform, if a return is requested there is NOTHING a seller can do if the buyer sends back fakes or badly damaged cards. The only option is to go through a third party when you sell the cards to verify ahead of time what is being sent out. I didn't think to do that for this situation. And I realize I 100% could be in the process of getting scammed out of thousands of dollars. Maybe this guy has a bad condition, inked Beta Badlands that he's about to send in place of the real one.
Aside from a photo of the cards, I took a video of when I was about to ship the cards out. I thought this would add a little weight in case something like this did happen.
I bought these cards when I was 9 years old as a long term investment, and MTG represents some of the fondest memories as a kid. The video was just being reminiscent about the cards and hopefully getting some good shots of the condition of the cards before I send them out. But still, I don't think this would matter much.
So who here has any input on this situation? Besides just "you shouldn't have sold through eBay" or "you should have done x, y, z." Well shoulda / woulda won't help too much now. I hear other people having created police cases after such scams, but still it's like there isn't a way to verify that it was stolen or I wasn't the one trying to initiate a scam by sending the incorrect cards. The only thing that'd prove the card was stolen is if the exact card shows up being sold later on eBay and it can be verified that it was my old card. The Underground Sea does have that very specific inking issue on the upper portion which would make it easily identifiable.
My last option, in the event I am not sent back the proper cards / am scammed, is to maybe create a GoFundMe within the community. I'm not exactly a rich guy, and taking this loss from these cards would be horrific and that's about the only thing I could do in the event I'm scammed.
This guy might not be a scammer at all. But I also think there's a chance it could go south very quickly. I won't know until the cards are returned.
Hi Rencall. Welcome to MTGS. I'm sorry that your introduction was on such a bad note.
Best advice that I can give you is to document, document, document. Once you get the cards back, take them to a professional. If you're near a MagicFest, great. If you're near SCG or another big store, wonderful. If not, take them to your local store. Get lots of opinions and do lots of tests (please not the bend test). Record as much as you can. If you find a difference, take it to eBay and request all the documentation that you can. Once you've got what they're willing to give to you, take that to the police (bring printouts). The dollar amount involved will hopefully make them take notice. Using the postal system to commit a crime is itself a federal offense (mail fraud).
That's the best that I can offer. There are no guarantees in this world; nothing is certain except death and mana screw.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Along with many mods, I've moved shop over to MTGNexus. Come check us out!
I recently sold a Beta Badlands together with an Alpha Underground sea for a total of $6400 on eBay (yeah I know, 'don't sell on eBay.')
The Sea had an issue with the top corner and upper rim being inked by some idiot previous owner attempting to cover up signs of wear. I disclosed this in the auction and was very surprised to see it still sell for over $4,000.
i also sold a Beta Badlands which in my estimation had NO issues with it, and I put it down as condition Lightly Played which is accurate. It sold for $1,400.
One buyer bought both. But has now initiated a return request, he said the inking was a lot worse than I described. I thought about it and realized he probably has a point. If he got the Sea, wasn't comfortable with how much he spent given this issue, and he wants the return, I understand.
But, the kicker is he's also returning the Beta Badlands which doesn't have any issues with it, and he referred to "cards" plural, as if there was something wrong with the badlands which there is not. He also said the inking was widespread, which it is not, so that's another red flag.
So, first, I should mention this buyer has 550 transactions rated, 100% positive reviews, and mostly CCG related, which is a good thing. He's sounded pretty courteous and professional in correspondences, but this of course doesn't mean anything.
So I started reading about how, if selling cards on eBay or any similar platform, if a return is requested there is NOTHING a seller can do if the buyer sends back fakes or badly damaged cards. The only option is to go through a third party when you sell the cards to verify ahead of time what is being sent out. I didn't think to do that for this situation. And I realize I 100% could be in the process of getting scammed out of thousands of dollars. Maybe this guy has a bad condition, inked Beta Badlands that he's about to send in place of the real one.
Aside from a photo of the cards, I took a video of when I was about to ship the cards out. I thought this would add a little weight in case something like this did happen.
I bought these cards when I was 9 years old as a long term investment, and MTG represents some of the fondest memories as a kid. The video was just being reminiscent about the cards and hopefully getting some good shots of the condition of the cards before I send them out. But still, I don't think this would matter much.
So who here has any input on this situation? Besides just "you shouldn't have sold through eBay" or "you should have done x, y, z." Well shoulda / woulda won't help too much now. I hear other people having created police cases after such scams, but still it's like there isn't a way to verify that it was stolen or I wasn't the one trying to initiate a scam by sending the incorrect cards. The only thing that'd prove the card was stolen is if the exact card shows up being sold later on eBay and it can be verified that it was my old card. The Underground Sea does have that very specific inking issue on the upper portion which would make it easily identifiable.
My last option, in the event I am not sent back the proper cards / am scammed, is to maybe create a GoFundMe within the community. I'm not exactly a rich guy, and taking this loss from these cards would be horrific and that's about the only thing I could do in the event I'm scammed.
This guy might not be a scammer at all. But I also think there's a chance it could go south very quickly. I won't know until the cards are returned.
Any thoughts so I don't die from anxiety?
Unfortunately, it's as you said. Nothing can be done. You know all the facts, you know you have to document the arrival of the cards.
What I will say to you is an emotional note however. You're freaking out right now because of what could happen.
I completely sympathize and empathize with that. But what I can say to you is don't let that anxiety get out of hand.
You control your anxiety. Nobody else. This might seem like an odd note to talk about, but I've been in your shoes many times and it's more important than you think. From a procedural perspective for example, there is nothing that can be done because you anticipate he's going to send back fakes.
Consider the perspective of ebay or paypal. Nobody can help you because of your anxiety that he has yet to cheat you. Ultimately, you have to be cheated first before any remedy can be granted in your favor. Yes, he might cheat you. But until he actually does, there isn't a thing you can do. After all you can't tell ebay to disallow a return simply because you are anxious. Even if you know with 100% certainty he will cheat you. Still nothing can be done until it happens.
The realism of the timing of when your anxiety can help you or when it's simply meaningless is a matter of procedure. As a seller I learned, I can't let my anxiety explode out of hand that I might be cheated, if I can''t even pursue a remedy until I am in fact actually cheated.
One time I sat on the other side of the process. I was trying to return a black lotus I purchased off ebay. It looked real to me. But I went and had people at my local gaming shop take a look at it. They thought it was fake. I had my skepticism...because when it comes to these old cards, many will have an opinion, but few will know. I tried to return the card. The seller was furious. As a buyer I didn't let that bother me.
But ultimately I did keep the card, and did not return it. Although I ultimately made the decision based on my own standards, I do believe the seller establishing a phone dialogue with my helped. That is also something you can do at this stage if you have some confidence with your skills. Get to know the guy returning your card.
Well guys the fraud may have been initiated. I was returned just one of the two cards: my Beta Badlands, sans the Underground Sea. I did get to know the guy and became very confident afterall that I wasn't going to get scammed. I think maybe now I was scammed. It's nice to have the real Beta Badlands back, which sold for $1400, but not having the Sea is a big problem.
Under shipping, it showed he shipped only the Sea and not the Badlands, and unless he ships something with a return label on it by the 12th eBay will let me keep the money originally due for the Badlands, and I'll only have to refund the Underground Sea for $4300. But I have to keep my fingers crossed he overlooked this.
Really stunning that after all that, he may have skipped on sending me back one of the cards.
Did you record you opening the return package? If so you will have at least some evidence backing up that the buyer did not return the item purchased. It is hard to be protected by this, but possible.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I recently sold a Beta Badlands together with an Alpha Underground sea for a total of $6400 on eBay (yeah I know, 'don't sell on eBay.')
The Sea had an issue with the top corner and upper rim being inked by some idiot previous owner attempting to cover up signs of wear. I disclosed this in the auction and was very surprised to see it still sell for over $4,000.
i also sold a Beta Badlands which in my estimation had NO issues with it, and I put it down as condition Lightly Played which is accurate. It sold for $1,400.
One buyer bought both. But has now initiated a return request, he said the inking was a lot worse than I described. I thought about it and realized he probably has a point. If he got the Sea, wasn't comfortable with how much he spent given this issue, and he wants the return, I understand.
But, the kicker is he's also returning the Beta Badlands which doesn't have any issues with it, and he referred to "cards" plural, as if there was something wrong with the badlands which there is not. He also said the inking was widespread, which it is not, so that's another red flag.
So, first, I should mention this buyer has 550 transactions rated, 100% positive reviews, and mostly CCG related, which is a good thing. He's sounded pretty courteous and professional in correspondences, but this of course doesn't mean anything.
So I started reading about how, if selling cards on eBay or any similar platform, if a return is requested there is NOTHING a seller can do if the buyer sends back fakes or badly damaged cards. The only option is to go through a third party when you sell the cards to verify ahead of time what is being sent out. I didn't think to do that for this situation. And I realize I 100% could be in the process of getting scammed out of thousands of dollars. Maybe this guy has a bad condition, inked Beta Badlands that he's about to send in place of the real one.
Aside from a photo of the cards, I took a video of when I was about to ship the cards out. I thought this would add a little weight in case something like this did happen.
I bought these cards when I was 9 years old as a long term investment, and MTG represents some of the fondest memories as a kid. The video was just being reminiscent about the cards and hopefully getting some good shots of the condition of the cards before I send them out. But still, I don't think this would matter much.
So who here has any input on this situation? Besides just "you shouldn't have sold through eBay" or "you should have done x, y, z." Well shoulda / woulda won't help too much now. I hear other people having created police cases after such scams, but still it's like there isn't a way to verify that it was stolen or I wasn't the one trying to initiate a scam by sending the incorrect cards. The only thing that'd prove the card was stolen is if the exact card shows up being sold later on eBay and it can be verified that it was my old card. The Underground Sea does have that very specific inking issue on the upper portion which would make it easily identifiable.
My last option, in the event I am not sent back the proper cards / am scammed, is to maybe create a GoFundMe within the community. I'm not exactly a rich guy, and taking this loss from these cards would be horrific and that's about the only thing I could do in the event I'm scammed.
This guy might not be a scammer at all. But I also think there's a chance it could go south very quickly. I won't know until the cards are returned.
Any thoughts so I don't die from anxiety?
Best advice that I can give you is to document, document, document. Once you get the cards back, take them to a professional. If you're near a MagicFest, great. If you're near SCG or another big store, wonderful. If not, take them to your local store. Get lots of opinions and do lots of tests (please not the bend test). Record as much as you can. If you find a difference, take it to eBay and request all the documentation that you can. Once you've got what they're willing to give to you, take that to the police (bring printouts). The dollar amount involved will hopefully make them take notice. Using the postal system to commit a crime is itself a federal offense (mail fraud).
That's the best that I can offer. There are no guarantees in this world; nothing is certain except death and mana screw.
Unfortunately, it's as you said. Nothing can be done. You know all the facts, you know you have to document the arrival of the cards.
What I will say to you is an emotional note however. You're freaking out right now because of what could happen.
I completely sympathize and empathize with that. But what I can say to you is don't let that anxiety get out of hand.
You control your anxiety. Nobody else. This might seem like an odd note to talk about, but I've been in your shoes many times and it's more important than you think. From a procedural perspective for example, there is nothing that can be done because you anticipate he's going to send back fakes.
Consider the perspective of ebay or paypal. Nobody can help you because of your anxiety that he has yet to cheat you. Ultimately, you have to be cheated first before any remedy can be granted in your favor. Yes, he might cheat you. But until he actually does, there isn't a thing you can do. After all you can't tell ebay to disallow a return simply because you are anxious. Even if you know with 100% certainty he will cheat you. Still nothing can be done until it happens.
The realism of the timing of when your anxiety can help you or when it's simply meaningless is a matter of procedure. As a seller I learned, I can't let my anxiety explode out of hand that I might be cheated, if I can''t even pursue a remedy until I am in fact actually cheated.
One time I sat on the other side of the process. I was trying to return a black lotus I purchased off ebay. It looked real to me. But I went and had people at my local gaming shop take a look at it. They thought it was fake. I had my skepticism...because when it comes to these old cards, many will have an opinion, but few will know. I tried to return the card. The seller was furious. As a buyer I didn't let that bother me.
But ultimately I did keep the card, and did not return it. Although I ultimately made the decision based on my own standards, I do believe the seller establishing a phone dialogue with my helped. That is also something you can do at this stage if you have some confidence with your skills. Get to know the guy returning your card.
Under shipping, it showed he shipped only the Sea and not the Badlands, and unless he ships something with a return label on it by the 12th eBay will let me keep the money originally due for the Badlands, and I'll only have to refund the Underground Sea for $4300. But I have to keep my fingers crossed he overlooked this.
Really stunning that after all that, he may have skipped on sending me back one of the cards.