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What about the SDCC print? I've got a set and am kind of agonizing over what to do with them.
It's tough to say for sure on the SDCC cards, because none of them have been eternal-playable before, and the supply on all of them is so low. I would guess that, as the pimpest version, it'll command a serious premium. But it's difficult to say whether it'll be more worthwhile to break out the Jace for its individual value or keep the set together for its combined value.
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As a foil, it's particularly attractive for older formats. I can easily see the foil on this card going for 2-3x the current value in a few years.
What about the SDCC print? I've got a set and am kind of agonizing over what to do with them.
For what it's worth, I sold my set for $300 cash late last year for Christmas money. It might have been short-sighted to sell, but considering I got my set for half that, and I completely avoided eBay and PayPal fees, I'm not going to complain at doubling up.
He sees some eternal play, sure, but I've only ever seen him used on Cockatrice, I've never seen one at any of our Legacy events.
If you want the most value out of it, I highly doubt that Jace is going to get any higher than current. Jace currently has found his way as a 4-of in half the top placing decks currently, which is a function of the 3 and 4 color mana-bases going on. Given that Fetches rotate out with SoI, which both make it easier to play him in a wider range of decks as well as flip him, I simply can't see him being played more heavily than current. We will likely return to a more "normal" mana base, restricting the number of decks that can play it significantly. While it'll always be a player in standard, I don't forsee it being as major as right now.
Equally, it's almost unheard to have a $70 Standard staple (And while yes, there is eternal demand, the majority of his demand is coming from Standard). The card just doesn't have anywhere to trend upwards from this point.
I would argue the opposite. While Standard is largely driving the demand for JVP, the card IS played across all older formats, and as such, will maintain a good deal of its price after rotation. Additionally, with no core sets and no ability to print DFCs in supplementals, they have no outlet to reprint him, so long-term the price will go up.
As a foil, it's particularly attractive for older formats. I can easily see the foil on this card going for 2-3x the current value in a few years.
While true, I was arguing from the viewpoint that he is interested in selling it sooner rather than later, based on him asking if he should wait till rotation or not. If he feels as though he wants to sell it soon for maximum value in the short term, selling prior to rotation is a far better idea than waiting till rotation (Where his value will quite likely drop at that point). In the extreme long term, I would certainly agree with you. I was moreso speaking from a short-term standpoint.
The question is if he wants to hold onto it for 3-4 years or not. If he plans on selling it soon (While it's still in Standard), it only makes sense to sell prior to SoI rotation. If he doesn't mind holding onto it for a few years, then absolutely wait.
While true, I was arguing from the viewpoint that he is interested in selling it sooner rather than later, based on him asking if he should wait till rotation or not. If he feels as though he wants to sell it soon for maximum value in the short term, selling prior to rotation is a far better idea than waiting till rotation (Where his value will quite likely drop at that point). In the extreme long term, I would certainly agree with you. I was moreso speaking from a short-term standpoint.
The question is if he wants to hold onto it for 3-4 years or not. If he plans on selling it soon (While it's still in Standard), it only makes sense to sell prior to SoI rotation. If he doesn't mind holding onto it for a few years, then absolutely wait.
Yes, this is true. If the question is now vs a year from now, sell now. If the question is now or "eventually", hold.
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I'm curious...what's with the incredible foil multipliers on Reflector Mage and Stormchaser Mage? Both have around an eight to ten times multiplier for the foil over the non-foil version, which is strange for cards that don't see any play in non-rotating formats. Compare these to other BFZ block cards like Wasteland Strangler, which see play in Modern but only boast a 2x or less foil multiplier and it makes even less sense.
I'm curious...what's with the incredible foil multipliers on Reflector Mage and Stormchaser Mage? Both have around an eight to ten times multiplier for the foil over the non-foil version, which is strange for cards that don't see any play in non-rotating formats. Compare these to other BFZ block cards like Wasteland Strangler, which see play in Modern but only boast a 2x or less foil multiplier and it makes even less sense.
What's going on here?
Both vaguely playable in kitchen table and/or Pauper formats. I've seen those two mentioned as the two obvious main adds to Pauper Cube from OGW.
And where kitchen tables and cubes are, so is pimpage. So there's likely a fair bit of casual demand for the foil copies, hence the price. Same thing happened to Zulaport Cutthroat in BFZ.
Both vaguely playable in kitchen table and/or Pauper formats. I've seen those two mentioned as the two obvious main adds to Pauper Cube from OGW.
And where kitchen tables and cubes are, so is pimpage. So there's likely a fair bit of casual demand for the foil copies, hence the price. Same thing happened to Zulaport Cutthroat in BFZ.
Both vaguely playable in kitchen table and/or Pauper formats. I've seen those two mentioned as the two obvious main adds to Pauper Cube from OGW.
And where kitchen tables and cubes are, so is pimpage. So there's likely a fair bit of casual demand for the foil copies, hence the price. Same thing happened to Zulaport Cutthroat in BFZ.
They are Uncommons- not Pauper legal.
Bah, yes. Peasant.
I always get those two mixed up (says the guy with a Peasant cube... ha ha).
If you examine the prices of very comparable recent cards like Monastery SwiftspearFoil and Young PyromancerFoil it will probably make a bit more sense.
If you examine the prices of very comparable recent cards like Monastery SwiftspearFoil and Young PyromancerFoil it will probably make a bit more sense.
Not quite the same thing. Swiftspear is playable in modern and even legacy, where pimping is king. Young Pyromancer is a staple in those formats as well. Unless Reflector Mage finds a home, the foils will most likely come down over time like Dryad Militant ($10 on release) did.
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If you examine the prices of very comparable recent cards like Monastery SwiftspearFoil and Young PyromancerFoil it will probably make a bit more sense.
I don't know if I'd call those comparable though - Swiftspear is played heavily in Modern, Standard, and Legacy, and Pyromancer in Modern and Legacy. These guys seem fine, but without that eternal appeal I can't see them being that exciting.
Agree with you both. I'm not saying I expect them to stay at the current inflated levels. Without a home, as you say, that simply doesn't happen. I'm just saying I think that this sense of 'familiarity' is probably driving some of the speculative activity on these two.
I have to ask though.. Tacking evasion onto an already very playable (and proven so) guy for the lowest-possible-cost (U), you really don't see any potential for that card in formats where the original is already played?
And Reflector Mage is being discussed positively from what little coverage I've seen. I bet if someone figures out a way to squeeze him into Emeria Control or one of those Blink deck that are being brewed up right now, maybe? Man-o-War effects are playable in eternal and I think this guy pushing that level, if not quiiite there.
I bought three Kozilek, the Great Distortion today; with Shadows Over Innistrad coming, Kozilek will be a great enabler for madness control strategies if they develop.
Think it was a good idea?
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Sure, having a mythic monster in your trade binder is not a bad idea.
No, I don't see him enabling Madness in Shadows. Why? Because of the way madness works. In the past, madness has always had a casting cost, usually a cheaper version of the normal casting cost. The only seriously played madness cards either relied on free enablers (Aquameboa, e.g.), free madness costs (rootwala, e.g.) or both.
For Kozilek to work, you would need madness cards printed that were: (1) free, or close to it; and (2) game-breaking when they resolved. I think it's almost tautological that Wizards will not do this.
If you're looking for cards that might change price based on madness returning, here's what I consider better bets. I actually made sure to pick up a playset of each (they're cheap) just in case any of them see movement.
1. Breakthrough. While legal only in Legacy and Eternal at the moment, this is a very powerful but not totally broken madness enabler. Kind of the ultimate all-in for madness. If we got some new free madness cards, it might see an uptick in older formats. If they make a point of NOT printing any free or super cheap madness cards, it might even be safe to reprint in standard. That might enable an all-in madness deck of some kind to emerge. Since the reprint in Conspiracy made this card ultra-cheap (it wasn't expensive to begin with) I think this is a good pickup.
2. Careful Study. As with Breakthrough, this is an excellent enabler. It's not too broken for standard; the last time we were in Innistrad, we got Faithless Looting, which is an upgrade of Careful Study in every way except being the wrong color. Very easy to reprint and see standard play, which can't help but move it up from how cheap it is currently.
3. Chamber of Manipulation. Yet another very cheap, reprintable madness enabler with a very powerful effect. 2UU theft with conditions is a little ahead of the curve from where WotC likes control effects to be nowadays, but there are a LOT of conditions on this one.
4. Big Game Hunter. I would be really surprised if this card is not in Shadows. Don't forget, they plant answers to prior sets in new sets. BGH is a tailor-made solution to Eldrazi. Well, at least it might look that way to the Future League. Again, for as cheap as it is now, seeing Standard play probably bumps it up.
5. Enclave Cryptologist. It won't be reprinted, sure, but this is one of the better ways to enable Madness and dig for cards that isn't named Jace: The Baby. It probably doesn't see any movement, honestly, but you never know if people priced out of $50 Jaces' might look for something with more upside than Merfolk Looter in this slot. And, unlike the more traditional madness enablers, she's playable in Modern.
6. Circular Logic. Breakthrough can be reprinted if they don't make cheap madness costs; Circular Logic can be reprinted if they don't make cheap discard outlets. This would be a very interesting way to give control a new day in the sun, and even foil copies are dirt cheap.
7. Anvil of Bogardan. This is not a standard pick at all, but more madness cards can only make this awesome old school card more playable.
Sure, having a mythic monster in your trade binder is not a bad idea.
No, I don't see him enabling Madness in Shadows. Why? Because of the way madness works. In the past, madness has always had a casting cost, usually a cheaper version of the normal casting cost. The only seriously played madness cards either relied on free enablers (Aquameboa, e.g.), free madness costs (rootwala, e.g.) or both.
For Kozilek to work, you would need madness cards printed that were: (1) free, or close to it; and (2) game-breaking when they resolved. I think it's almost tautological that Wizards will not do this.
Not to mention that using Kozilek as your madness engine means you need a reliable way to get a 10 CMC creature with CC in their cost online as early as possible. I know control decks play the long game, but 10 CMC spells should win you the game on the spot.
Hey guys just want some input on which cheaper Oath rares should I be speculating on in the long term? I already have quite a few Masterworks and even if they only net a couple of bucks i'd be happy. Just bought a few sets of Eldrazi Obligator. Sea Gate & Outfitter are also on my watch list. I'm fairly new to straight up speculation, but would like to get more into it.
If madness becomes a thing, then the foil promo Fiery Temper may be a good investment.
Honestly, i would (and did) pick up the old Torment ones or maybe the Timeshifted ones. Those *really* pop--the foiling is different and WAY prettier.
I don't see Anvil of Bogardan reprint due to Bogardan being on a different plane and also on Reserved List but I would LOVE to see a functional reprint or a slightly different analog of it. (I honestly DO expect this..)
I would REALLY like to see Gamble get a reprint but not holding my breath. SO fun in a deck full of Madness cards.
Hey guys just want some input on which cheaper Oath rares should I be speculating on in the long term?
As someone who enjoys the penny-stock game, Oath doesn't seem like a good set for this; it doesn't seem like there are a ton of "strong-in-a-vacuum" cards under a dollar a la BFZ or Origins (e.g. Painful Truths, Wasteland Strangler, Parents Nalaar, Hallowed Moonlight). Most of the goodies have been discovered.
Maybe you can pick up the cheap planewalker Oaths at bulk prices and hope one of them is a 4-of in some build. Perhaps Captain's Claws has some legs. Or maybe you think the colorless aggro deck will be a force in Standard, making Ruins of Oran-Rief and Corrupted Crossroads good pickups.
Honestly though, I don't think there's a lot of value to be had in speccing on the cheaper Oath cards.
Thanks man yeah I was debating that and I think devoid aggro will be a thing post rotation but i'm not going to be dumping a ton of $$ into something for little return. I do know people who do trade off on SCG prices though and I do pick up stock cards at tcgplayer prices so I might do that to help out.
What about the SDCC print? I've got a set and am kind of agonizing over what to do with them.
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It's tough to say for sure on the SDCC cards, because none of them have been eternal-playable before, and the supply on all of them is so low. I would guess that, as the pimpest version, it'll command a serious premium. But it's difficult to say whether it'll be more worthwhile to break out the Jace for its individual value or keep the set together for its combined value.
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For what it's worth, I sold my set for $300 cash late last year for Christmas money. It might have been short-sighted to sell, but considering I got my set for half that, and I completely avoided eBay and PayPal fees, I'm not going to complain at doubling up.
He sees some eternal play, sure, but I've only ever seen him used on Cockatrice, I've never seen one at any of our Legacy events.
While true, I was arguing from the viewpoint that he is interested in selling it sooner rather than later, based on him asking if he should wait till rotation or not. If he feels as though he wants to sell it soon for maximum value in the short term, selling prior to rotation is a far better idea than waiting till rotation (Where his value will quite likely drop at that point). In the extreme long term, I would certainly agree with you. I was moreso speaking from a short-term standpoint.
The question is if he wants to hold onto it for 3-4 years or not. If he plans on selling it soon (While it's still in Standard), it only makes sense to sell prior to SoI rotation. If he doesn't mind holding onto it for a few years, then absolutely wait.
Yes, this is true. If the question is now vs a year from now, sell now. If the question is now or "eventually", hold.
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Both vaguely playable in kitchen table and/or Pauper formats. I've seen those two mentioned as the two obvious main adds to Pauper Cube from OGW.
And where kitchen tables and cubes are, so is pimpage. So there's likely a fair bit of casual demand for the foil copies, hence the price. Same thing happened to Zulaport Cutthroat in BFZ.
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They are Uncommons- not Pauper legal.
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Not quite the same thing. Swiftspear is playable in modern and even legacy, where pimping is king. Young Pyromancer is a staple in those formats as well. Unless Reflector Mage finds a home, the foils will most likely come down over time like Dryad Militant ($10 on release) did.
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I don't know if I'd call those comparable though - Swiftspear is played heavily in Modern, Standard, and Legacy, and Pyromancer in Modern and Legacy. These guys seem fine, but without that eternal appeal I can't see them being that exciting.
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I have to ask though.. Tacking evasion onto an already very playable (and proven so) guy for the lowest-possible-cost (U), you really don't see any potential for that card in formats where the original is already played?
And Reflector Mage is being discussed positively from what little coverage I've seen. I bet if someone figures out a way to squeeze him into Emeria Control or one of those Blink deck that are being brewed up right now, maybe? Man-o-War effects are playable in eternal and I think this guy pushing that level, if not quiiite there.
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Think it was a good idea?
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No, I don't see him enabling Madness in Shadows. Why? Because of the way madness works. In the past, madness has always had a casting cost, usually a cheaper version of the normal casting cost. The only seriously played madness cards either relied on free enablers (Aquameboa, e.g.), free madness costs (rootwala, e.g.) or both.
For Kozilek to work, you would need madness cards printed that were: (1) free, or close to it; and (2) game-breaking when they resolved. I think it's almost tautological that Wizards will not do this.
If you're looking for cards that might change price based on madness returning, here's what I consider better bets. I actually made sure to pick up a playset of each (they're cheap) just in case any of them see movement.
1. Breakthrough. While legal only in Legacy and Eternal at the moment, this is a very powerful but not totally broken madness enabler. Kind of the ultimate all-in for madness. If we got some new free madness cards, it might see an uptick in older formats. If they make a point of NOT printing any free or super cheap madness cards, it might even be safe to reprint in standard. That might enable an all-in madness deck of some kind to emerge. Since the reprint in Conspiracy made this card ultra-cheap (it wasn't expensive to begin with) I think this is a good pickup.
2. Careful Study. As with Breakthrough, this is an excellent enabler. It's not too broken for standard; the last time we were in Innistrad, we got Faithless Looting, which is an upgrade of Careful Study in every way except being the wrong color. Very easy to reprint and see standard play, which can't help but move it up from how cheap it is currently.
3. Chamber of Manipulation. Yet another very cheap, reprintable madness enabler with a very powerful effect. 2UU theft with conditions is a little ahead of the curve from where WotC likes control effects to be nowadays, but there are a LOT of conditions on this one.
4. Big Game Hunter. I would be really surprised if this card is not in Shadows. Don't forget, they plant answers to prior sets in new sets. BGH is a tailor-made solution to Eldrazi. Well, at least it might look that way to the Future League. Again, for as cheap as it is now, seeing Standard play probably bumps it up.
5. Enclave Cryptologist. It won't be reprinted, sure, but this is one of the better ways to enable Madness and dig for cards that isn't named Jace: The Baby. It probably doesn't see any movement, honestly, but you never know if people priced out of $50 Jaces' might look for something with more upside than Merfolk Looter in this slot. And, unlike the more traditional madness enablers, she's playable in Modern.
6. Circular Logic. Breakthrough can be reprinted if they don't make cheap madness costs; Circular Logic can be reprinted if they don't make cheap discard outlets. This would be a very interesting way to give control a new day in the sun, and even foil copies are dirt cheap.
7. Anvil of Bogardan. This is not a standard pick at all, but more madness cards can only make this awesome old school card more playable.
Not to mention that using Kozilek as your madness engine means you need a reliable way to get a 10 CMC creature with CC in their cost online as early as possible. I know control decks play the long game, but 10 CMC spells should win you the game on the spot.
Honestly, i would (and did) pick up the old Torment ones or maybe the Timeshifted ones. Those *really* pop--the foiling is different and WAY prettier.
I don't see Anvil of Bogardan reprint due to Bogardan being on a different plane and also on Reserved List but I would LOVE to see a functional reprint or a slightly different analog of it. (I honestly DO expect this..)
I would REALLY like to see Gamble get a reprint but not holding my breath. SO fun in a deck full of Madness cards.
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As someone who enjoys the penny-stock game, Oath doesn't seem like a good set for this; it doesn't seem like there are a ton of "strong-in-a-vacuum" cards under a dollar a la BFZ or Origins (e.g. Painful Truths, Wasteland Strangler, Parents Nalaar, Hallowed Moonlight). Most of the goodies have been discovered.
Maybe you can pick up the cheap planewalker Oaths at bulk prices and hope one of them is a 4-of in some build. Perhaps Captain's Claws has some legs. Or maybe you think the colorless aggro deck will be a force in Standard, making Ruins of Oran-Rief and Corrupted Crossroads good pickups.
Honestly though, I don't think there's a lot of value to be had in speccing on the cheaper Oath cards.