Edit: I checked his complete auctions. I'd open a case with PayPal; it looks fake, and so do all his other foils.
You know what it looks like? A transparency with a shooting star glued onto a regular card. Can you take a picture with a digital camera? I also can't see any items for sale.
No, doesn't mean anything. If anything, a card with an altered color background is harder to fake. I got a mox ruby with a "dust speck" dot a while back and learned that the easiest things to fake look identical to the original. If everything else is real (dots, light test, wax coat), but some things are obviously off (color, alignment, whatever), it's most likely real. Nobody is going to spend a ton of money making high quality fakes and mess up on something like changing the position of the background.
Going by that list, clearly the Troll and Toad foils are fake, because their star is hugely disproportionate. (They probably used some photoshop tool to foil scans of existing card images.)
if he is perpetrating counterfeit goods and fraud through the US Mail, then it's probably a case for Ebay, paypal and US Postal Inspectors. Those guys are federal agents - and if they built a good case against him, he'll be in for a world of hurt.
Huh? I was viewing this thread a while back. What made you decide they were fake, and do you have pics? Make sure it's 100% fake before anything else, because you don't want to slander his name without being sure.
Edit: Oh, I see the pics you uploaded...hm. I would say that it looks pretty real. If anything, the one on the right seems more fake than the one on the left. Maybe he sold you 3 fakes and 1 real instead of the opposite? It's hard to tell without a higher-resolution pic, but you should take that it's hard to print white without a commercial-grade printer. The white on your home printer is just without ink, since it assumes you're printing on white paper. If you look at the right one, it looks like the white text is missing, and it's transparent. Try to take higher-resolution pics please.
Edit 2: It does seem like the background pattern is off for the one on the left. It seems to be a very high-quality fake, if it is real. If you really discover that it's fake, I would pressure wizards to threaten legal action against this bastard.
The OP was kind enough to message me on eBay and inform me that my winnings might be fakes, and let me just say I nearly sh*t a brick when I woke up this morning. Anyways, I checked them out with my jeweler scope, and they have the dot pattern on the front and back that real magic cards have, I just would like to verify with the rest of you, maybe for a little peace of mind that these are good here.
Pics:
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**Trades** "Practice compassion and mercy. But know when they must end." -Aurelia
it might be me, but i noticed A LOT of auction on Daze, Dark ritual and Foil fetch land(polluted delta to be precise) recently... there might be something fishy :S
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Kakwann, Lvl 39 Sorcerer
Currently Playing
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
The actual art of the border looks off. Is it just me or are the little bubbles in the frame not quite right? It could just be the photo, but compare the placing of the bubbles to a known card.
Could you take a real Dark Ritual card from Mercadian Masques, and then do a fake foiling on top of it? That could explain how the dot patterns look legit
The final straw for me was the big black dot on the border that is behind the foil star this is on every foil black older card. That dot was missing on mine pic in the OP. And the whole front had a gloss to it, picture box as well as the text box.
As a matter of fact a bunch of the border dots are off. Big one above the Eye is pretty obvious.
Those missing bubbles in the black frame make it pretty conclusive. I checked all my foil old-border black cards and they all look like your dark ritual on the right.
This is pretty scary. I looked at this guy's ebay auctions and he sold a bunch of very high value foils, including all 5 onslaught fetchlands, brainstorms, dark rituals, dazes, etc. And he's received all positive feedback from his buyers.
jake556, If it were not for the old black frames having those distinctive bubbles, would you have caught the fakes? I imagine it would be very hard to spot the non-black frame fakes, especially lands.
360addiction, you might want to double check your rituals. Could you post a better picture of them that clearly shows the bubbles in the frames?
The lawsuit referenced is for breach of contract. You have to pay to get the actual text of the suit, so I'm not sure what exactly is alleged to have happened. You might be able to get some more info by mailing ABU and asking them what exactly he is supposed to have done. That said, I don't know what a card retailer would sue (as a contract suit) for other than selling them fakes.
You know I really got to hand it to both Jake and Wizards of the Coast or whoever printed the original magic cards.
You can't just get away with printing a foil holographic layer over the original magic card and produce a legit fake.
The differing bubble structure is a major difference that's easy and obvious to spot, at least for the black foils. I'm sure the other foils of this era have similar indicia.
Just look for the black bubbles.
As for the lawsuit. You do indeed have to pay to access the documents, but basically this guy is being sued as we speak.
Since I can't actually view any of the court documents, I can only comment on generally knowledge of law.
I didn't see if this was only a breach of contract suit.
Basically in a lawsuit, the plaintiff drafts a a complaint with a summons which is essentially a document alleging facts that give rise to the cause of action and a subpoena of the guy to appear in court.
In a breach of contract suit generally, the only relief you can only ask for the losses you incurred had the contract been properly fulfilled.
Those missing bubbles in the black frame make it pretty conclusive. I checked all my foil old-border black cards and they all look like your dark ritual on the right.
This is pretty scary. I looked at this guy's ebay auctions and he sold a bunch of very high value foils, including all 5 onslaught fetchlands, brainstorms, dark rituals, dazes, etc. And he's received all positive feedback from his buyers.
jake556, If it were not for the old black frames having those distinctive bubbles, would you have caught the fakes? I imagine it would be very hard to spot the non-black frame fakes, especially lands.
360addiction, you might want to double check your rituals. Could you post a better picture of them that clearly shows the bubbles in the frames?
It was a dang good fake but as picky as I am I look over extensively EVERY card I purchase even junk commons lol. I think I would have noticed W/out the bubbles, Turn it sideways in the light and it looked like an even sheen across the whole card (Nothing like all the other foils I own).
Right wrong or indifferent I notified Ebay and have been slowly notifying people as they leave feedback for him. Unfortunately everyone is leaving positive Feedback, even me. (So yes they are damn good fakes). I left feedback just glancing at the card thinking nothing of it then I took it to put in my deck with the others and said WTF????
I probably wouldn't have thought much of it until he sent me a return address of John Smith, I said that name stands out so I looked up the Paypal payment and it was to Ryan O'koren--> Googled it for some reason and BAM he owns a Holographic printing business????
I just wanted to notify everyone I could so less people are taken advantage of.
The lawsuit referenced is for breach of contract. You have to pay to get the actual text of the suit, so I'm not sure what exactly is alleged to have happened. You might be able to get some more info by mailing ABU and asking them what exactly he is supposed to have done. That said, I don't know what a card retailer would sue (as a contract suit) for other than selling them fakes.
ABU used to sell the same kinds of foil overlay sticker'd cards that turn up on eBay; that guy could easily have been their supplier.
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Guess I was pretty close.
Edit:
Oops. Careful to not fall victim to scams like these, guys.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Edit: Oh, I see the pics you uploaded...hm. I would say that it looks pretty real. If anything, the one on the right seems more fake than the one on the left. Maybe he sold you 3 fakes and 1 real instead of the opposite? It's hard to tell without a higher-resolution pic, but you should take that it's hard to print white without a commercial-grade printer. The white on your home printer is just without ink, since it assumes you're printing on white paper. If you look at the right one, it looks like the white text is missing, and it's transparent. Try to take higher-resolution pics please.
Edit 2: It does seem like the background pattern is off for the one on the left. It seems to be a very high-quality fake, if it is real. If you really discover that it's fake, I would pressure wizards to threaten legal action against this bastard.
I did Galspanic dont know where it will go from there.
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
Pics:
**Trades**
"Practice compassion and mercy. But know when they must end." -Aurelia
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
As a matter of fact a bunch of the border dots are off. Big one above the Eye is pretty obvious.
Can someone smarter than my figure out more info about this lawsuit? http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/other-contract/idaho-district-court/565576/alpha-beta-unlimited-inc-v-ryan-o-039-koren/summary/
EDIT: For reference
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
This is pretty scary. I looked at this guy's ebay auctions and he sold a bunch of very high value foils, including all 5 onslaught fetchlands, brainstorms, dark rituals, dazes, etc. And he's received all positive feedback from his buyers.
jake556, If it were not for the old black frames having those distinctive bubbles, would you have caught the fakes? I imagine it would be very hard to spot the non-black frame fakes, especially lands.
360addiction, you might want to double check your rituals. Could you post a better picture of them that clearly shows the bubbles in the frames?
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain
You can't just get away with printing a foil holographic layer over the original magic card and produce a legit fake.
The differing bubble structure is a major difference that's easy and obvious to spot, at least for the black foils. I'm sure the other foils of this era have similar indicia.
Just look for the black bubbles.
As for the lawsuit. You do indeed have to pay to access the documents, but basically this guy is being sued as we speak.
Since I can't actually view any of the court documents, I can only comment on generally knowledge of law.
I didn't see if this was only a breach of contract suit.
Basically in a lawsuit, the plaintiff drafts a a complaint with a summons which is essentially a document alleging facts that give rise to the cause of action and a subpoena of the guy to appear in court.
In a breach of contract suit generally, the only relief you can only ask for the losses you incurred had the contract been properly fulfilled.
It was a dang good fake but as picky as I am I look over extensively EVERY card I purchase even junk commons lol. I think I would have noticed W/out the bubbles, Turn it sideways in the light and it looked like an even sheen across the whole card (Nothing like all the other foils I own).
Right wrong or indifferent I notified Ebay and have been slowly notifying people as they leave feedback for him. Unfortunately everyone is leaving positive Feedback, even me. (So yes they are damn good fakes). I left feedback just glancing at the card thinking nothing of it then I took it to put in my deck with the others and said WTF????
I probably wouldn't have thought much of it until he sent me a return address of John Smith, I said that name stands out so I looked up the Paypal payment and it was to Ryan O'koren--> Googled it for some reason and BAM he owns a Holographic printing business????
I just wanted to notify everyone I could so less people are taken advantage of.
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Playset-4-foil-Dark-Ritual-Mercadian-Masques-/300952327402?nma=true&si=OaOD8hqczahqIrL%252FBkI2t%252Fd0%252BI4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
They were also on sale on ABU for a while, but they seem to be gone. The lawsuit thing made me think of it.
All your Ice Age Foil Basics are belong to us
If you have any foil 7ED Island #334 I am very interested!
ABU used to sell the same kinds of foil overlay sticker'd cards that turn up on eBay; that guy could easily have been their supplier.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I already sent it back and got a refund 360addiction might be able to do that.
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=capncader&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560&rt=nc&iid=380670818566&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
CardboardCreationism
ETSY COUNTERS
Listed another bunch of foils
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL