I know there has been some retconning going on with the Zendikar vampires but I'm not sure what was old information, and what is new. Can somebody sum it up?
Another thing: it is said that when the Eldrazi first plundered Zendikar, "they took the vampires as a race of servants, adapting their very anatomy for servitude. Hooklike horns grew from the vampires' shoulders, convenient handles for the Eldrazi to dominate their slave race". The Ghet later threatened to turn all of the vampires of Malakir into thralls of the Eldrazi (again). How is this explained, when the Eldrazi are mindless creatures?
I would say - read the rather good Uncharted Realms from yesterday, about Drana. There is some very surprising and new info there.
That only confused me more.
Well, you are not alone.
Virtually the only thing we knew for sure is what you wrote above - the quote from original Zendikar.
After the unfortunate retcon of Nahiri's UR and their supposed feud with Sorin, a theory arose that Sorin has something to do with their creation.
Now, after yesterday, it is hinted that at least Drana (and supposedly other bloodchiefs) splintered from the original Eldrazi hivemind (for lack of better term) long ago, and instead of being just scions/drones, they somehow developed sentience and kind of independence and forgot their original purpose.
How they ended up being humanoid vampires, and why? Well, that is another question. And one to be solved in the future, I hope.
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After the unfortunate retcon of Nahiri's UR and their supposed feud with Sorin
I've read mentions to this a few times and I had read the original UR but possibly not attentively enough. What exactly was retconned? As in what did the article originally say and what was deleted/added?
I know there has been some retconning going on with the Zendikar vampires but I'm not sure what was old information, and what is new. Can somebody sum it up?
Another thing: it is said that when the Eldrazi first plundered Zendikar, "they took the vampires as a race of servants, adapting their very anatomy for servitude. Hooklike horns grew from the vampires' shoulders, convenient handles for the Eldrazi to dominate their slave race". The Ghet later threatened to turn all of the vampires of Malakir into thralls of the Eldrazi (again). How is this explained, when the Eldrazi are mindless creatures?
I believe the implication is that, during the first minor release of the Eldrazi and while Nahiri waited for help from Sorin or Ugin, the Eldrazi spawn that were released formed themselves into humanoid creatures to help the rest of the spawn consume. These proto-vampires were given more intelligence than the other brood and gained sentience, becoming the Bloodchiefs, but it's unclear if ALL vampires are former Eldrazi or just the Bloodchiefs.
I imagine they'll explain this some more as they go.
After the unfortunate retcon of Nahiri's UR and their supposed feud with Sorin
I've read mentions to this a few times and I had read the original UR but possibly not attentively enough. What exactly was retconned? As in what did the article originally say and what was deleted/added?
Thank you. So the partial sequence of events appears to be as follows:
1. Eldrazi get lured and trapped on Zendikar. Nahiri is unaware of any vampires on Zendikar.
1a. (Possible space for something relating to vampire history to occur outside of Nahiri's awareness)
2. Ugin and Sorin leave. Nahiri, still unaware of any vampires on Zendikar, hibernates.
3. Vampires are either introduced to Zendikar from the outside or otherwise appear.
4a. Vampires either appear on Zendikar as a free and proud race and are later enthralled by the Eldrazi from within their prison; or
4b. Vampires were created to be Eldrazi thralls in the first place.
5. In either case enthralled vampires worship the Eldrazi, disrupt the hedron network, cause Eldrazi to reappear and Nahiri to wake up
6. Nahiri becomes aware of vamprires and reseals the Eldrazi
7a. Either the unnatural enthrallment of vampires dissipates and they recover their original independent identity; or
7b. Their natural instinct to serve the Eldrazi is left unfulfilled with the Eldrazi unable to unfluence them and they develop a new identity
8. Sufficient time passes for Drana to forget the early parts of her history and she thinks of herself entirely in terms of independence and own identity. However, with the Eldrazi released again they are able to again enthrall many of the vampires.
Thank you. So the partial sequence of events appears to be as follows:
1. Eldrazi get lured and trapped on Zendikar. Nahiri is unaware of any vampires on Zendikar.
1a. (Possible space for something relating to vampire history to occur outside of Nahiri's awareness)
2. Ugin and Sorin leave. Nahiri, still unaware of any vampires on Zendikar, hibernates.
3. Vampires are either introduced to Zendikar from the outside or otherwise appear.
4a. Vampires either appear on Zendikar as a free and proud race and are later enthralled by the Eldrazi from within their prison; or
4b. Vampires were created to be Eldrazi thralls in the first place.
5. In either case enthralled vampires worship the Eldrazi, disrupt the hedron network, cause Eldrazi to reappear and Nahiri to wake up
6. Nahiri becomes aware of vamprires and reseals the Eldrazi
7a. Either the unnatural enthrallment of vampires dissipates and they recover their original independent identity; or
7b. Their natural instinct to serve the Eldrazi is left unfulfilled with the Eldrazi unable to unfluence them and they develop a new identity
8. Sufficient time passes for Drana to forget the early parts of her history and she thinks of herself entirely in terms of independence and own identity. However, with the Eldrazi released again they are able to again enthrall many of the vampires.
Is that more or less correct?
More or less.
Just wait until they spell everything out since all of this could be retconned in the next story.
I did not see that the vampires were definitively former eldrazi from Drana's story, but I do see how that could be a possibility. Although I think it would make more sense if the vampires evolved from enthralled mortals like on [It that Betrays].
But I've been wondering for a while if the vampires came from Ob Nixilis. Sorin was the result of demonic magic afterall.
We are still unsure of Sorin's role in earning the epithet "Mortifier." Once the Eldrazi created the vampires in our new understanding of Zendikar, perhaps Sorin played this role when he and Ugin returned to assist Nahiri in re-imprisoning them. Actually, this post from 5 years ago sums up my initial thoughts.
However, if the Eldrazi created vampires (perhaps right before or as the Brood emerged on Zendikar when they almost escaped after the first Imprisonment), perhaps Sorin used the vampires to lure or distract the Brood long enough for Ugin and Nahiri to re-imprison them. This would seem wicked enough that the vampires could name him the Mortifier, while also serving the greater good. Interestingly enough, it would benefit the plane as a whole, just as Avacyn benefits the entire plane, but the vampires of Innistrad hate him for it, too.
This could be Sorin's fun doomed fate--save worlds and make the vampires hate him. (just kidding, of course)
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I did not see that the vampires were definitively former eldrazi from Drana's story, but I do see how that could be a possibility. Although I think it would make more sense if the vampires evolved from enthralled mortals like on [It that Betrays].
But I've been wondering for a while if the vampires came from Ob Nixilis. Sorin was the result of demonic magic afterall.
She's pretty explicitly a former Eldrazi spawn according to the story. It may only be the Bloodchiefs that are former Eldrazi, however.
Ob Nixilis isn't a demon in the usual sense, his magic is still just his own black magic and maybe power given by the curse of the Chain Veil. Nothing we know about him indicates that he could have created the Vampires.
We are still unsure of Sorin's role in earning the epithet "Mortifier." Once the Eldrazi created the vampires in our new understanding of Zendikar, perhaps Sorin played this role when he and Ugin returned to assist Nahiri in re-imprisoning them. Actually, this post from 5 years ago sums up my initial thoughts.
I wouldn't think much about the mortifier title anymore. In the Teeth of Akoum is the only place it is mentioned and that book is only canon in the broad strokes sense these days.
I don't think it is likely that the Eldrazi created the Bloodchiefs themselves. That would be too rational for them. It is more likely that Sorin had a hand in it. Earning Nahiri's wrath in the process.
The taking of Vampire slaves by the Eldrazi would then be not at their first incursion, but at their first awakening.
Still not sure about the hooks on the vampire shoulders. Would a spawn or scion be riding them? Maybe, we will we see a new card of Kalitas in Oath, depicting this?
I did not see that the vampires were definitively former eldrazi from Drana's story, but I do see how that could be a possibility. Although I think it would make more sense if the vampires evolved from enthralled mortals like on [It that Betrays].
But I've been wondering for a while if the vampires came from Ob Nixilis. Sorin was the result of demonic magic afterall.
She's pretty explicitly a former Eldrazi spawn according to the story. It may only be the Bloodchiefs that are former Eldrazi, however.
I also got this from the story and I think it's pretty clear, not sure where the confusion is coming from. We know the Eldrazi can have spawns, scions, drones, processors, and other things. I suppose at some point there is the danger of these beings to develop an independent mind, so that's the story line. What bothers me is that I don't like that the only legacy of Eldrazi parts becoming independent is the black Vampires. It makes it seem less Eldrazi if it's a natural evolution for them to become Black creatures. I'd rather see a number of different races that spawned off from the Eldrazi in different colors.
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I did not see that the vampires were definitively former eldrazi from Drana's story, but I do see how that could be a possibility. Although I think it would make more sense if the vampires evolved from enthralled mortals like on [It that Betrays].
But I've been wondering for a while if the vampires came from Ob Nixilis. Sorin was the result of demonic magic afterall.
She's pretty explicitly a former Eldrazi spawn according to the story. It may only be the Bloodchiefs that are former Eldrazi, however.
I also got this from the story and I think it's pretty clear, not sure where the confusion is coming from. We know the Eldrazi can have spawns, scions, drones, processors, and other things. I suppose at some point there is the danger of these beings to develop an independent mind, so that's the story line. What bothers me is that I don't like that the only legacy of Eldrazi parts becoming independent is the black Vampires. It makes it seem less Eldrazi if it's a natural evolution for them to become Black creatures. I'd rather see a number of different races that spawned off from the Eldrazi in different colors.
No it makes scene since as Drana said herself, the eldrazi feed like vampires do. The consept of draining life in order to power yourself is very black.
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No it makes scene since as Drana said herself, the eldrazi feed like vampires do. The consept of draining life in order to power yourself is very black.
Yes, I see how you could get from Eldrazi to vampires, colorless to black, but I'd also like examples of colorless to the non-black colors. Just having Eldrazi to black only makes it feel like the Eldrazi are a little too close to being black, a little too stereotypical bad guys/evil. Not being in white also has this problem.
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No it makes scene since as Drana said herself, the eldrazi feed like vampires do. The consept of draining life in order to power yourself is very black.
Yes, I see how you could get from Eldrazi to vampires, colorless to black, but I'd also like examples of colorless to the non-black colors. Just having Eldrazi to black only makes it feel like the Eldrazi are a little too close to being black, a little too stereotypical bad guys/evil. Not being in white also has this problem.
I think it was mostly Vampire to Eldrazi then colors. Plus you could say because of much Black is about the individual only the more black aligned eldrazi could have the will to seperate.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I did not see that the vampires were definitively former eldrazi from Drana's story, but I do see how that could be a possibility. Although I think it would make more sense if the vampires evolved from enthralled mortals like on [It that Betrays].
But I've been wondering for a while if the vampires came from Ob Nixilis. Sorin was the result of demonic magic afterall.
She's pretty explicitly a former Eldrazi spawn according to the story. It may only be the Bloodchiefs that are former Eldrazi, however.
I also got this from the story and I think it's pretty clear, not sure where the confusion is coming from. We know the Eldrazi can have spawns, scions, drones, processors, and other things. I suppose at some point there is the danger of these beings to develop an independent mind, so that's the story line. What bothers me is that I don't like that the only legacy of Eldrazi parts becoming independent is the black Vampires. It makes it seem less Eldrazi if it's a natural evolution for them to become Black creatures. I'd rather see a number of different races that spawned off from the Eldrazi in different colors.
I'm surprised by all this you are getting.
It's well known that vampires were a race ENSLAVED by Eldrazi. The Eldrazi found them to be good TOOLS for consumption. They were consuming THROUGH vampires. You understand that someone consuming through you must mean a strong link, that not only messes up with your body but also your mind.
Drana, being a bloodchief, and of the most noble family, was probably around during those times. As such, when she gets a glimpse of those memories (she loses memories periodically due to the long life), she feels that in those times she "was an Eldrazi" because Eldrazi were basically into her, but there's absolutely nothing telling that Eldrazi created vampires, or even worse that Vampires are a type of Eldrazi. No no and no. Vampires were just corrupted by the Eldrazi and in those times they, understandably, lost their individuality and felt *AS IF* they were Eldrazi. This is what Drana discovers/remembers.
But vampires just *became* linked to Eldrazi, controlled by Eldrazi, and if you wish "Eldrazi hosts". (We also have a card depicting so: Carrier Thrall.)
This thread is such a massive source of disinformation that I registered to the website just to reply. You can google basically everything I say, and you will see that's the sense of the UR story. There is no retconning anything. Just explaining and describing in first person what it felt to be enslaved by Eldrazi: you felt *as if you were* Eldrazi. That's it.
It's well known that vampires were a race ENSLAVED by Eldrazi. The Eldrazi found them to be good TOOLS for consumption. They were consuming THROUGH vampires. You understand that someone consuming through you must mean a strong link, that not only messes up with your body but also your mind.
Drana, being a bloodchief, and of the most noble family, was probably around during those times. As such, when she gets a glimpse of those memories (she loses memories periodically due to the long life), she feels that in those times she "was an Eldrazi" because Eldrazi were basically into her, but there's absolutely nothing telling that Eldrazi created vampires, or even worse that Vampires are a type of Eldrazi. No no and no. Vampires were just corrupted by the Eldrazi and in those times they, understandably, lost their individuality and felt *AS IF* they were Eldrazi. This is what Drana discovers/remembers.
But vampires just *became* linked to Eldrazi, controlled by Eldrazi, and if you wish "Eldrazi hosts". (We also have a card depicting so: Carrier Thrall.)
This thread is such a massive source of disinformation that I registered to the website just to reply. You can google basically everything I say, and you will see that's the sense of the UR story. There is no retconning anything. Just explaining and describing in first person what it felt to be enslaved by Eldrazi: you felt *as if you were* Eldrazi. That's it.
Dude, take a chill pill and calm down.
We do NOT know about the origins of the vampires on Zendikar.
We know at some point they were enslaved by the Eldrazi, but we also have signs that they may have been created by the Eldrazi, or were at some point Eldrazi spawn.
You have your interpretation of the story, fine. But it isn't misinformation to raise other interpretations.
Get over yourself.
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What Technate said. I didn't get the idea that the vampires used to be physical Eldrazi, but rather were metaphysical aspects of them that got transported into some humans to create the bloodchiefs over an amount of time.
But all that is simply my own interpretation of it, so I wouldn't go out to call others wrong.
I would be completely chilled if it was just my theory, problem is you are saying things against facts, bringing no facts.
Quote me where in the text you have anything saying they were created by Eldrazi or Eldrazi spawn. Also, since Sorin predates them, tell me what a coincidence of parallel evolution would it be to have vampires come from Eldrazi and become just like other pre-existing vampires, save for two horns on shoulders.
tell me what a coincidence of parallel evolution would it be to have vampires come from Eldrazi and become just like other pre-existing vampires, save for two horns on shoulders.
Magic and fantasy settings in general aren't really concerned with this thing.
Furthermore vampirism in Magic is just a collective term for similar afflictions anyway. Some vampires are undead, while others are just cursed. Some can fly naturally while others have to use spells for that.
Another thing: it is said that when the Eldrazi first plundered Zendikar, "they took the vampires as a race of servants, adapting their very anatomy for servitude. Hooklike horns grew from the vampires' shoulders, convenient handles for the Eldrazi to dominate their slave race". The Ghet later threatened to turn all of the vampires of Malakir into thralls of the Eldrazi (again). How is this explained, when the Eldrazi are mindless creatures?
I would say - read the rather good Uncharted Realms from yesterday, about Drana. There is some very surprising and new info there.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
That only confused me more.
The Eldrazi are not mindless, they just have a mind completely unlike anything we know.
Well, you are not alone.
Virtually the only thing we knew for sure is what you wrote above - the quote from original Zendikar.
After the unfortunate retcon of Nahiri's UR and their supposed feud with Sorin, a theory arose that Sorin has something to do with their creation.
Now, after yesterday, it is hinted that at least Drana (and supposedly other bloodchiefs) splintered from the original Eldrazi hivemind (for lack of better term) long ago, and instead of being just scions/drones, they somehow developed sentience and kind of independence and forgot their original purpose.
How they ended up being humanoid vampires, and why? Well, that is another question. And one to be solved in the future, I hope.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I've read mentions to this a few times and I had read the original UR but possibly not attentively enough. What exactly was retconned? As in what did the article originally say and what was deleted/added?
I imagine they'll explain this some more as they go.
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Sorin might have something to do with it, though.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
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This post:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/613573-uncharted-realms-discussion-ii?comment=1257
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
1. Eldrazi get lured and trapped on Zendikar. Nahiri is unaware of any vampires on Zendikar.
1a. (Possible space for something relating to vampire history to occur outside of Nahiri's awareness)
2. Ugin and Sorin leave. Nahiri, still unaware of any vampires on Zendikar, hibernates.
3. Vampires are either introduced to Zendikar from the outside or otherwise appear.
4a. Vampires either appear on Zendikar as a free and proud race and are later enthralled by the Eldrazi from within their prison; or
4b. Vampires were created to be Eldrazi thralls in the first place.
5. In either case enthralled vampires worship the Eldrazi, disrupt the hedron network, cause Eldrazi to reappear and Nahiri to wake up
6. Nahiri becomes aware of vamprires and reseals the Eldrazi
7a. Either the unnatural enthrallment of vampires dissipates and they recover their original independent identity; or
7b. Their natural instinct to serve the Eldrazi is left unfulfilled with the Eldrazi unable to unfluence them and they develop a new identity
8. Sufficient time passes for Drana to forget the early parts of her history and she thinks of herself entirely in terms of independence and own identity. However, with the Eldrazi released again they are able to again enthrall many of the vampires.
Is that more or less correct?
More or less.
Just wait until they spell everything out since all of this could be retconned in the next story.
Your mods are terrified of me.
But I've been wondering for a while if the vampires came from Ob Nixilis. Sorin was the result of demonic magic afterall.
However, if the Eldrazi created vampires (perhaps right before or as the Brood emerged on Zendikar when they almost escaped after the first Imprisonment), perhaps Sorin used the vampires to lure or distract the Brood long enough for Ugin and Nahiri to re-imprison them. This would seem wicked enough that the vampires could name him the Mortifier, while also serving the greater good. Interestingly enough, it would benefit the plane as a whole, just as Avacyn benefits the entire plane, but the vampires of Innistrad hate him for it, too.
This could be Sorin's fun doomed fate--save worlds and make the vampires hate him. (just kidding, of course)
Ob Nixilis isn't a demon in the usual sense, his magic is still just his own black magic and maybe power given by the curse of the Chain Veil. Nothing we know about him indicates that he could have created the Vampires.
I wouldn't think much about the mortifier title anymore. In the Teeth of Akoum is the only place it is mentioned and that book is only canon in the broad strokes sense these days.
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The taking of Vampire slaves by the Eldrazi would then be not at their first incursion, but at their first awakening.
Still not sure about the hooks on the vampire shoulders. Would a spawn or scion be riding them? Maybe, we will we see a new card of Kalitas in Oath, depicting this?
I also got this from the story and I think it's pretty clear, not sure where the confusion is coming from. We know the Eldrazi can have spawns, scions, drones, processors, and other things. I suppose at some point there is the danger of these beings to develop an independent mind, so that's the story line. What bothers me is that I don't like that the only legacy of Eldrazi parts becoming independent is the black Vampires. It makes it seem less Eldrazi if it's a natural evolution for them to become Black creatures. I'd rather see a number of different races that spawned off from the Eldrazi in different colors.
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
No it makes scene since as Drana said herself, the eldrazi feed like vampires do. The consept of draining life in order to power yourself is very black.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yes, I see how you could get from Eldrazi to vampires, colorless to black, but I'd also like examples of colorless to the non-black colors. Just having Eldrazi to black only makes it feel like the Eldrazi are a little too close to being black, a little too stereotypical bad guys/evil. Not being in white also has this problem.
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
I think it was mostly Vampire to Eldrazi then colors. Plus you could say because of much Black is about the individual only the more black aligned eldrazi could have the will to seperate.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm surprised by all this you are getting.
It's well known that vampires were a race ENSLAVED by Eldrazi. The Eldrazi found them to be good TOOLS for consumption. They were consuming THROUGH vampires. You understand that someone consuming through you must mean a strong link, that not only messes up with your body but also your mind.
Drana, being a bloodchief, and of the most noble family, was probably around during those times. As such, when she gets a glimpse of those memories (she loses memories periodically due to the long life), she feels that in those times she "was an Eldrazi" because Eldrazi were basically into her, but there's absolutely nothing telling that Eldrazi created vampires, or even worse that Vampires are a type of Eldrazi. No no and no. Vampires were just corrupted by the Eldrazi and in those times they, understandably, lost their individuality and felt *AS IF* they were Eldrazi. This is what Drana discovers/remembers.
But vampires just *became* linked to Eldrazi, controlled by Eldrazi, and if you wish "Eldrazi hosts". (We also have a card depicting so: Carrier Thrall.)
This thread is such a massive source of disinformation that I registered to the website just to reply. You can google basically everything I say, and you will see that's the sense of the UR story. There is no retconning anything. Just explaining and describing in first person what it felt to be enslaved by Eldrazi: you felt *as if you were* Eldrazi. That's it.
Dude, take a chill pill and calm down.
We do NOT know about the origins of the vampires on Zendikar.
We know at some point they were enslaved by the Eldrazi, but we also have signs that they may have been created by the Eldrazi, or were at some point Eldrazi spawn.
You have your interpretation of the story, fine. But it isn't misinformation to raise other interpretations.
Get over yourself.
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
But all that is simply my own interpretation of it, so I wouldn't go out to call others wrong.
Quote me where in the text you have anything saying they were created by Eldrazi or Eldrazi spawn. Also, since Sorin predates them, tell me what a coincidence of parallel evolution would it be to have vampires come from Eldrazi and become just like other pre-existing vampires, save for two horns on shoulders.
Magic and fantasy settings in general aren't really concerned with this thing.
Furthermore vampirism in Magic is just a collective term for similar afflictions anyway. Some vampires are undead, while others are just cursed. Some can fly naturally while others have to use spells for that.