NOTE:
Ok, so I believe this is the right place for this (seeing as it deals with the flavor/story of a card), but if it isn't, please feel free to move it to the appropriate location.
--------
So I was playing against a friend and I ended up playing Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and reading his abilities got me thinking; Sorin was one of the first vampires of Innistrad (having been "gifted" with vampirism from his grandfather, Edgar), but after seeing the monsters of Innistrad prey on humans too recklessly, he created Avacyn in order to protect the humans and balance life on Innistrad. This obviously made the rest of the vampires hate him and he isn't welcome in his family's manor anymore and is pretty much widely resented on the plane.
So here's my question:
Why does Sorin, LoI make vampire tokens? In the flavor of the game, I assume this to be him calling on the help from a lesser creature to fight with/for him, but if all the vampires hate him, why do they "answer his call" and show up to fight (i.e., the vampire token coming into play). It just seems to me like it'd make more sense for him to call upon some bats or spirits or something rather than the vampires who hate him for making Avacyn.
Any thoughts on this? Or am I just reading too much into a small ability in the game itself?
Why does Sorin, LoI make vampire tokens? In the flavor of the game, I assume this to be him calling on the help from a lesser creature to fight with/for him, but if all the vampires hate him, why do they "answer his call" and show up to fight (i.e., the vampire token coming into play). It just seems to me like it'd make more sense for him to call upon some bats or spirits or something rather than the vampires who hate him for making Avacyn.
Any thoughts on this? Or am I just reading too much into a small ability in the game itself?
Well, there are a few little tidbits I can share about this.
First, the direct response from Brady when asked this question:
Quote from Brady Dommermuth »
Quote from Cogminded »
If vampires would not follow Sorin because they would be ostracised for supporting him, and he would not make many himself, how come the Sorin, Lord of Innistrad card has him creating vampire tokens?
Because mechanics need to be both more blunt and more elegant than story subtleties would demand. Also, Sorin's ability doesn't necessarily represent only siring, and certainly doesn't work only on Innistrad.
But there's further insight as well into Sorin's psychology:
Quote from Brady Dommermuth »
He has no qualms at all about subjugating other vampires when it suits his purposes. Just think of poor Anowon.
And how, you might ask, can he accomplish this?
He acquired a very powerful artifact known as the Ancient Fang which forces vampires to follow the will of the wielder.
Well, there are a few little tidbits I can share about this.
First, the direct response from Brady when asked this question:
But there's further insight as well into Sorin's psychology:
And how, you might ask, can he accomplish this?
He acquired a very powerful artifact known as the Ancient Fang which forces vampires to follow the will of the wielder.
BARINELLOS KNOWS ALL.
He doesn't need the blade, he can use his sangromancy to bloodbend people.
Like poor Anowon.
That's what his ultimate was on his first card.
Having the Fang probably doesn't hurt though...
He doesn't need the blade, he can use his sangromancy to bloodbend people.
Like poor Anowon.
That's what his ultimate was on his first card.
Having the Fang probably doesn't hurt though...
Actually the Markov line has mental domination as their bloodline limit*. It has nothing to do with his sangromancy. He also never magically did anything to Anowon.
"Sorin Markov is a vampire and a master of sangromancy, a dark corner of black mana specialization. With this blood magic he can drain the lifeforce of other beings, place curses on enemies, and even possess the minds of others."
Not that this is related to the original poster's topic, but it does have to do with Sorin.
I noticed that his Salvation article has been updated and it states that his involvement in Innistrad block's events occurred prior to Zendikar block's events. I was wondering where this timeline of events was confirmed.
Not that this is related to the original poster's topic, but it does have to do with Sorin.
I noticed that his Salvation article has been updated and it states that his involvement in Innistrad block's events occurred prior to Zendikar block's events. I was wondering where this timeline of events was confirmed.
Also to do with Dack and his time getting the Ancient Fang.
Basically, we know that Sorin was on Innistrad, and the fact that he did absolutely nothing actually LOOKING for Avacyn was... well, it makes more sense for him to have run across Dack while he was busy looking for Avacyn.
I should probably change it back though, or at least split it, because Sorin's arrival came after Thraben fell to Geralf according to the trailer. But damn does that stick in my craw wurm because it effectively means Sorin made an appearance for NO BLOODY REASON.
Like Jace, on Zendikar.
What are you talking about? Jace was there to warp every meta conceivable and usher in a new age of expensive cardboard. Seriously, I thought Bolas manipulated Jace and Chandra into going to the Eye because there needed to be three 'walkers there to activate it, and he already had Sarkhan as his lackey.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The imagination is not a State: it is the Human existence itself." - William Blake
Also to do with Dack and his time getting the Ancient Fang.
Basically, we know that Sorin was on Innistrad, and the fact that he did absolutely nothing actually LOOKING for Avacyn was... well, it makes more sense for him to have run across Dack while he was busy looking for Avacyn.
I should probably change it back though, or at least split it, because Sorin's arrival came after Thraben fell to Geralf according to the trailer. But damn does that stick in my craw wurm because it effectively means Sorin made an appearance for NO BLOODY REASON.
Like Jace, on Zendikar.
Ah, so it was mostly a hypothesis on your part?
Sorin being my favorite Magic character, I'm always ecstatic to see/hear/find new information on him.
Speaking of his appearance in the comics,
!{SPOILER WARNING}!
. . .I was rather disappointed the conflict depicted on the cover was nowhere to be found. What a let down. . .
I was also a bit confused why Sorin was so pissed that Dack was revealing his identity as a planeswalker. I just don't see why he would care so much, unless it was just because he didn't want Innistradi humans to find out about planeswalkers. Besides, don't most humanoids think planeswalkers are just too fantastic to believe?
What are you talking about? Jace was there to warp every meta conceivable and usher in a new age of expensive cardboard. Seriously, I thought Bolas manipulated Jace and Chandra into going to the Eye because there needed to be three 'walkers there to activate it, and he already had Sarkhan as his lackey.
The problem there being that the Dragon Scroll was strictly business that Jace had with Chandra THREE YEARS before, something they had to retcon him into taking over the Consortium to make work, and consequently he has ABANDONED the Consortium now that that particular event has happened.
Jace had a HUGE number of things on his plate between the time he encountered Chandra and his sudden and inexplicable interest in the Dragon Scroll. Including a whole lot of not dying and having his heart broken.
In the end, it really made no sense, and continues to make no sense, even with Bolas taking responsibility, for him to have gone to Zendikar.
It's like if you had to make a delivery to another town for your job and three years down the line someone starts to talk about that one time you delivered that package and asking you what you thought was inside. It makes no sense.
Well, I suddenly just had the urge to post some trivial stuffs here about Sorin since OP talks about translating Sorin's abilities to flavor.
For his Lord incarnation, well:
+1: Making Vampires should be easy to explain; He is a vampire, so can vampirize any random dude he can find. Besides, he is a vampire elder (too bad the story is a little vague about how Edgar bequeathed the curse; is it via the demonic ritual also, or is it via biting? If former, he's first generation vampire, if latter, he's still second), so even if we were to incorporate other vampire lores such as younger generation vampires less likely to sire, Sorin should not have such problems. That, or as someone said also, Sorin's Ancient Fang can probably allow him to drag some hapless neonate to the fray to do his bidding. Either way, it's fine.
-2: Now this is tricky. Why would he, a solitary soul, empower those under his rule? We need more explanation on this.
-6: This one can be explained that he knows necromancy. Kill the opposing dudes, raise them as minions. Done.
I also want to yap about his original incarnation's abilities:
+2: Simple. He's a vampire. He eats blood, he becomes happy. No fuss here.
-3: Again, this is tricky. Placing a curse doesn't quite properly translate into making people lose life (the set to 10 thing), and not to mention that can be explained by him simply running his victim through with his sword, which flavor-wise, should either insta-kill or deal set amount of damage.
-7: Based on Traitorous Blood, it seems that some Innistrad vampires control other people by directly controlling their blood instead of invading their mind... unless that flavor text is being stupidly poetic for no reason. Which means that while the Wizards' intro to Sorin saying that he can 'control the minds of other' is not entirely correct, it has some basis.
And to finish my random yapping, there's another fictional character out there who reminds me a LOT to Sorin Markov... Too bad he's made Korean artist; probably Westerners won't care much
Beyer sorta explained his abilities in the Sorin's Homecoming article.
"To that end, Sorin is not afraid to take up arms. His weapons in this battle are those he was graced with as a vampire thousands of years ago: an aura of authority and position, which he uses to gather vassals and inspire servitude (+1); irresistible charisma, which he uses to reinforce those under his sway(-2); and, what is perhaps his most potent weapon, the ability to sire new subservient vampires, which is often Sorin's preferred method of dealing with his enemies.(-6)"
And its been stated that vampires of House Markov tend to be better at psychic magic for the original sorins mind slaver ability.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The problem there being that the Dragon Scroll was strictly business that Jace had with Chandra THREE YEARS before, something they had to retcon him into taking over the Consortium to make work, and consequently he has ABANDONED the Consortium now that that particular event has happened.
Wait, Purifying Fire was 3 years before Zendikar? How old does that make Chandra and Gideon? Actually more curious how old about is Tezzeret?
Wait, Purifying Fire was 3 years before Zendikar? How old does that make Chandra and Gideon?
Mid 20s
Actually more curious how old about is Tezzeret?
Tezzeret is well into his 40s.
I'm sure Barinellos can provide more precise answers.
I know that Duels provided profiles for all of the Planeswalker characters in the game (including their ages upon the time of their introduction), but damned if I can find it on the web.
Ok, so I believe this is the right place for this (seeing as it deals with the flavor/story of a card), but if it isn't, please feel free to move it to the appropriate location.
--------
So I was playing against a friend and I ended up playing Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and reading his abilities got me thinking; Sorin was one of the first vampires of Innistrad (having been "gifted" with vampirism from his grandfather, Edgar), but after seeing the monsters of Innistrad prey on humans too recklessly, he created Avacyn in order to protect the humans and balance life on Innistrad. This obviously made the rest of the vampires hate him and he isn't welcome in his family's manor anymore and is pretty much widely resented on the plane.
So here's my question:
Why does Sorin, LoI make vampire tokens? In the flavor of the game, I assume this to be him calling on the help from a lesser creature to fight with/for him, but if all the vampires hate him, why do they "answer his call" and show up to fight (i.e., the vampire token coming into play). It just seems to me like it'd make more sense for him to call upon some bats or spirits or something rather than the vampires who hate him for making Avacyn.
Any thoughts on this? Or am I just reading too much into a small ability in the game itself?
WB Eldrazi Processors BW
Legacy:
WUBRGLandless DredgeGRBUW
EDH:
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothGB
WUBrago, King Eternal (Budget!)UW
Well, there are a few little tidbits I can share about this.
First, the direct response from Brady when asked this question:
But there's further insight as well into Sorin's psychology:
And how, you might ask, can he accomplish this?
He acquired a very powerful artifact known as the Ancient Fang which forces vampires to follow the will of the wielder.
BARINELLOS KNOWS ALL.
Well assuming the comics are canon than this explains everything.
They are, though the events that happen within it aren't current to the story we see on the cards. All of Dack's exploits happened a while ago.
Hence why, for example, Malfegor is still alive in the comics.
He doesn't need the blade, he can use his sangromancy to bloodbend people.
Like poor Anowon.
That's what his ultimate was on his first card.
Having the Fang probably doesn't hurt though...
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
Actually the Markov line has mental domination as their bloodline limit*. It has nothing to do with his sangromancy. He also never magically did anything to Anowon.
*Just like the Falkenrath grow wings.
It doesn't help that Sorin's sangromancy was described as being the source of the ultimate long before Innistrad was a thing.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
It also doesn't help that it was described in a questionable deck building article rather than an actual creative based column.
"Sorin Markov is a vampire and a master of sangromancy, a dark corner of black mana specialization. With this blood magic he can drain the lifeforce of other beings, place curses on enemies, and even possess the minds of others."
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
I noticed that his Salvation article has been updated and it states that his involvement in Innistrad block's events occurred prior to Zendikar block's events. I was wondering where this timeline of events was confirmed.
Also to do with Dack and his time getting the Ancient Fang.
Basically, we know that Sorin was on Innistrad, and the fact that he did absolutely nothing actually LOOKING for Avacyn was... well, it makes more sense for him to have run across Dack while he was busy looking for Avacyn.
I should probably change it back though, or at least split it, because Sorin's arrival came after Thraben fell to Geralf according to the trailer. But damn does that stick in my craw wurm because it effectively means Sorin made an appearance for NO BLOODY REASON.
Like Jace, on Zendikar.
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."
Ah, so it was mostly a hypothesis on your part?
Sorin being my favorite Magic character, I'm always ecstatic to see/hear/find new information on him.
Speaking of his appearance in the comics,
!{SPOILER WARNING}!
. . .I was rather disappointed the conflict depicted on the cover was nowhere to be found. What a let down. . .
I was also a bit confused why Sorin was so pissed that Dack was revealing his identity as a planeswalker. I just don't see why he would care so much, unless it was just because he didn't want Innistradi humans to find out about planeswalkers. Besides, don't most humanoids think planeswalkers are just too fantastic to believe?
The problem there being that the Dragon Scroll was strictly business that Jace had with Chandra THREE YEARS before, something they had to retcon him into taking over the Consortium to make work, and consequently he has ABANDONED the Consortium now that that particular event has happened.
Jace had a HUGE number of things on his plate between the time he encountered Chandra and his sudden and inexplicable interest in the Dragon Scroll. Including a whole lot of not dying and having his heart broken.
In the end, it really made no sense, and continues to make no sense, even with Bolas taking responsibility, for him to have gone to Zendikar.
It's like if you had to make a delivery to another town for your job and three years down the line someone starts to talk about that one time you delivered that package and asking you what you thought was inside. It makes no sense.
For his Lord incarnation, well:
+1: Making Vampires should be easy to explain; He is a vampire, so can vampirize any random dude he can find. Besides, he is a vampire elder (too bad the story is a little vague about how Edgar bequeathed the curse; is it via the demonic ritual also, or is it via biting? If former, he's first generation vampire, if latter, he's still second), so even if we were to incorporate other vampire lores such as younger generation vampires less likely to sire, Sorin should not have such problems. That, or as someone said also, Sorin's Ancient Fang can probably allow him to drag some hapless neonate to the fray to do his bidding. Either way, it's fine.
-2: Now this is tricky. Why would he, a solitary soul, empower those under his rule? We need more explanation on this.
-6: This one can be explained that he knows necromancy. Kill the opposing dudes, raise them as minions. Done.
I also want to yap about his original incarnation's abilities:
+2: Simple. He's a vampire. He eats blood, he becomes happy. No fuss here.
-3: Again, this is tricky. Placing a curse doesn't quite properly translate into making people lose life (the set to 10 thing), and not to mention that can be explained by him simply running his victim through with his sword, which flavor-wise, should either insta-kill or deal set amount of damage.
-7: Based on Traitorous Blood, it seems that some Innistrad vampires control other people by directly controlling their blood instead of invading their mind... unless that flavor text is being stupidly poetic for no reason. Which means that while the Wizards' intro to Sorin saying that he can 'control the minds of other' is not entirely correct, it has some basis.
And to finish my random yapping, there's another fictional character out there who reminds me a LOT to Sorin Markov... Too bad he's made Korean artist; probably Westerners won't care much
"To that end, Sorin is not afraid to take up arms. His weapons in this battle are those he was graced with as a vampire thousands of years ago: an aura of authority and position, which he uses to gather vassals and inspire servitude (+1); irresistible charisma, which he uses to reinforce those under his sway(-2); and, what is perhaps his most potent weapon, the ability to sire new subservient vampires, which is often Sorin's preferred method of dealing with his enemies.(-6)"
And its been stated that vampires of House Markov tend to be better at psychic magic for the original sorins mind slaver ability.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Wait, Purifying Fire was 3 years before Zendikar? How old does that make Chandra and Gideon? Actually more curious how old about is Tezzeret?
Mid 20s
Tezzeret is well into his 40s.
I'm sure Barinellos can provide more precise answers.
I know that Duels provided profiles for all of the Planeswalker characters in the game (including their ages upon the time of their introduction), but damned if I can find it on the web.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.