I remember someone telling me that Karn went back in time and disappered? Is this the truth? If it is so, i am on the band wagon that Karn returns this Fall 2010!
if karn went back in time, could it be possible that he got possesed by a small part of yawgmoth?
Its possible, after all the Mirari was corrupted by phyrexian oil and Karn apparently made that, so there is a possibility that the oil could some sort of connection with Yawgmoth, which Karn has been exposed to.
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Karn went into the rift, went back in time, etc etc. He sealed the rift away in the past and as the rift in the present was closing he was trying to make his way back to the present timeline. In that process somehting Karn created (no proof at all Urza had any control ove rKarn, ever) attacked him and pulled him into some timeline in the rift.
So, Karn could be lost forever or Karn could be held captive right now. All we know is he used his power to seal the rift and he is missing. He could still have his spark(just weakened like Bolas) or he could never show up again. The thing is in Planar Chaos they liekd to kill the Walkers in idiotic ways (FREYALISE ROCKET!!!) so for all we know Karn getting stuck in the rift could have been his obscure swan song.
Didnt he say something about Urzas eyes? I thought something to do with his power source he got from urza was corrupting him. Maybe a trap set by yawgmoth set to go off when hes drawing massive amounts of mana , like when he would be dueling? Sorry , its been a long while since I read the time spiral books.
I think it was like "No, not my eyes!!!" or something equally as vague. It hinted to whatever Karn created was attacking him and going after his eyes.
The thing is Urza really didn't create anything that would go after him. The only two things that had sentience were Karn and the Metathran. It makes more sense if it was the Mirari(or Memnarch) going after Karn.
No, Karn sealed the rift before it became impossible to seal, they did it outside of Dominaria (in the blind eternieis).
The rift was recreated by Barrin when he blew up Tolaria, so it would still exist in modern times.
But apparently it wasn't one of the major rifts, since they didn't try to seal the new one created by Barrin.
And since we know that there were many minor rifts going through the multiverse, it could be, that they didn't recognize the new rift as a threat, and thus it wouldn't have mattered to them in that timeline.
...
Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say here?
Almost edit: Or, of course, they sealed it during the "time" when Karn was in the past... But then they didn't have a planeswalker... *sigh* Timetravel only brings confusion with it.
I didn't say, it wasn't sealed. I said, they didn't go on and tried to seal it after Karn was successful. After Venser came back from the blind eternities, he just asked the others what the next stop is going to be. There was no talk about the Tolarian rift or anything. There wasn't even another planeswalker around at the time, so we could assume someone else sealed it offscreen.
No, Karn sealed the rift before it became impossible to seal, they did it outside of Dominaria (in the blind eternieis).
The rift was recreated by Barrin when he blew up Tolaria, so it would still exist in modern times.
We don't actually know if Barrin's obliterate would create a new rift because there was a rift there already. His spell made THAT rift worse instead of creating a new one.
Should it have created a new one?... Maybe. Hell, even probably, but as it is, maybe the planar barrier acted like scar tissue and healed over thicker than the original tissue so it would take more to get through it.
Who knows?
And Karn was very much ON Tolaria when he sealed the rift. He was killing phyrexians with his bare hands and everything.
There wer ehundreds of tiny Rifts in time on Tolaria, in fact they are the first Rifts we are introduced to really overall. It wasn't until Barrin casted Obliterate that the rift became un-sealable. Karn went back in time, sealed the tiny rifts BEFORE Barrin casted Obliterate. Thus the giant un-sealable rift (a combo of the small time rifts and the obliterate spell) never was.
Okay, sorry. I was thinking "Urza had two rifts sealed" and for some reason assumed that they were both on Tolaria. My bad.
Okay, so the tolarian rift was sealed in the past, and thus shouldn't have existed in the present. The effects of it (adding temporal energy into the rifts) would still exist because the rift did exist for some time.
Umm... time travel is weird. The fact that Teferi recalls that the rift existed means that the past was altered without altering anything in the future... So... i don't know. Like most things in Time spiral, don't try to think about it too hard.
Okay, sorry. I was thinking "Urza had two rifts sealed" and for some reason assumed that they were both on Tolaria. My bad.
Okay, so the tolarian rift was sealed in the past, and thus shouldn't have existed in the present. The effects of it (adding temporal energy into the rifts) would still exist because the rift did exist for some time.
Umm... time travel is weird. The fact that Teferi recalls that the rift existed means that the past was altered without altering anything in the future... So... i don't know. Like most things in Time spiral, don't try to think about it too hard.
In order for Teferi to not remember it the author would have had to dip into alternate dimensions that are created by changing the past. Depending on how you feel about time travel, that might seem more realistic, but it would also negate pretty much the entire history of the multiverse as we know it from the point of change onward. No fun in destroying canon.
Like, I think, most people, I figure the reference to Urza's eyes is just an exclamation. Sort of like me saying "Ah sweet holy Jaysus" whenever I get corrupted by stuff.
from the MTGsalvation wiki, ( http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Urza )
----------------------------
"Over their years at Tocasia's camp, Urza and Mishra made several important inventions and discoveries. While the most obvious of these was the ornithopter, the most important turned out to be the Caves of Koilos. A mysterious cave filled with old Thran artifacts, the Caves were also the location of a long-sealed gateway to Phyrexia, used in every Phyrexian infiltration and invasion of Dominaria. On their first visit, Urza and Mishra acquired the Mightstone and the Weakstone respectively, the two halves of the stone that had been holding the portal shut. Mutual desire for the other brother's stone led to a falling-out between Urza and Mishra, as well as the inadvertent death of Tocasia."
---------------------------
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brothers%27_War,
" Ashnod sends a Golgothian sylex to Urza to end the war while she fights the demon Gix. Urza uses the Golgothian sylex to create an enormous blast that cripples the world, ending the war, and devastating all peoples of Dominaria. Gix escaped through the portal to another world of Phyrexia in the cave where the stone was found. Urza becomes a Planeswalker, a being able to travel between worlds, and the Mightstone and Weakstone become his eyes. And with his final words to Tawnos, Urza fades off of Dominaria."
-------------------------------------------
amd from http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Karn,
"Finally, as all hope of victory seemed lost, Karn united with Urza and Gerrard. When Gerrard placed Urza's powerstone eyes, the Mightstone and Weakstone, into Karn, the Legacy released a wave of white mana, destroying the Phyrexians and defeating Yawgmoth. While the two humans were killed, the powerstones turned Karn into the first -- and, so far as is known, only -- artificial planeswalker. "
----------------------------------
Interesting story of the Eyes of Urza.
Could another Phyrexian invasion be coming?
Could the Thran be returning?
Remember the obscure death rule.
No Body? Dont count him as dead.
There was a body for Urza, though (well, as far as old-style planeswalkers could have bodies). Most of it was left behind in the Phyrexian Arena. The head died on board the Weatherlight, when Gerrard extracted his eyes.
The Phyrexians look to be returning for definite, but as an invasion force? That's kind of an interesting question. With Yawgmoth gone, are they even interested in Dominaria anymore?
I was actually referring to Karn.
Karona visited Phyrexia, and a weak Yawgmoth was mentioned, but it "may" have been an alternate timeline. With the closing of the rifts, who knows what overlayed from other realities.
Perhaps Urzas eyes once again opened the way to Phyrexia.
Or perhaps even to the Thran themselves.
They would like Karn I think.
The Phyrexians look to be returning for definite, but as an invasion force? That's kind of an interesting question. With Yawgmoth gone, are they even interested in Dominaria anymore?
"New Phyrexia" could be refering to the Eldrazi. It would be a Meta-reference, but not outside the possibility of an oldwalker to make.
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When he went back, while in the process of closing the rift, he was hit with some sort of corruption that he apparently was responsible for creating.
We don't actually know what it was. Anyways, he ended up vanishing after he sealed the rift.
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Its possible, after all the Mirari was corrupted by phyrexian oil and Karn apparently made that, so there is a possibility that the oil could some sort of connection with Yawgmoth, which Karn has been exposed to.
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Sek'Kuar
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So, Karn could be lost forever or Karn could be held captive right now. All we know is he used his power to seal the rift and he is missing. He could still have his spark(just weakened like Bolas) or he could never show up again. The thing is in Planar Chaos they liekd to kill the Walkers in idiotic ways (FREYALISE ROCKET!!!) so for all we know Karn getting stuck in the rift could have been his obscure swan song.
The thing is Urza really didn't create anything that would go after him. The only two things that had sentience were Karn and the Metathran. It makes more sense if it was the Mirari(or Memnarch) going after Karn.
Shouldn't the rift have never existed to begin with, if Karn went back in time and sealed it?
That's what i got out of that scene.
"Damn, we need to get rid of Karn..."
"Okay have someone scare him away..."
"Who?"
"Just be vague, we'll think of something later."
No, Karn sealed the rift before it became impossible to seal, they did it outside of Dominaria (in the blind eternieis).
The rift was recreated by Barrin when he blew up Tolaria, so it would still exist in modern times.
But apparently it wasn't one of the major rifts, since they didn't try to seal the new one created by Barrin.
And since we know that there were many minor rifts going through the multiverse, it could be, that they didn't recognize the new rift as a threat, and thus it wouldn't have mattered to them in that timeline.
...
Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say here?
Almost edit: Or, of course, they sealed it during the "time" when Karn was in the past... But then they didn't have a planeswalker... *sigh* Timetravel only brings confusion with it.
Yes they did. All the rifts were sealed.
I forget who sealed it (it might have been Karn after he sealed the original), but all the rifts were sealed.
I didn't say, it wasn't sealed. I said, they didn't go on and tried to seal it after Karn was successful. After Venser came back from the blind eternities, he just asked the others what the next stop is going to be. There was no talk about the Tolarian rift or anything. There wasn't even another planeswalker around at the time, so we could assume someone else sealed it offscreen.
Well, since nobody sealed the rift separately, it was ultimatively sealed by Jeska, who sealed all the rifts at the end.
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I don't want to sound *****y, but... Isn't that what I just said?
We don't actually know if Barrin's obliterate would create a new rift because there was a rift there already. His spell made THAT rift worse instead of creating a new one.
Should it have created a new one?... Maybe. Hell, even probably, but as it is, maybe the planar barrier acted like scar tissue and healed over thicker than the original tissue so it would take more to get through it.
Who knows?
And Karn was very much ON Tolaria when he sealed the rift. He was killing phyrexians with his bare hands and everything.
Time travel makes things so messy.
Okay, so the tolarian rift was sealed in the past, and thus shouldn't have existed in the present. The effects of it (adding temporal energy into the rifts) would still exist because the rift did exist for some time.
Umm... time travel is weird. The fact that Teferi recalls that the rift existed means that the past was altered without altering anything in the future... So... i don't know. Like most things in Time spiral, don't try to think about it too hard.
In order for Teferi to not remember it the author would have had to dip into alternate dimensions that are created by changing the past. Depending on how you feel about time travel, that might seem more realistic, but it would also negate pretty much the entire history of the multiverse as we know it from the point of change onward. No fun in destroying canon.
Not sure if I just made any sense.
from the MTGsalvation wiki, ( http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Urza )
----------------------------
"Over their years at Tocasia's camp, Urza and Mishra made several important inventions and discoveries. While the most obvious of these was the ornithopter, the most important turned out to be the Caves of Koilos. A mysterious cave filled with old Thran artifacts, the Caves were also the location of a long-sealed gateway to Phyrexia, used in every Phyrexian infiltration and invasion of Dominaria. On their first visit, Urza and Mishra acquired the Mightstone and the Weakstone respectively, the two halves of the stone that had been holding the portal shut. Mutual desire for the other brother's stone led to a falling-out between Urza and Mishra, as well as the inadvertent death of Tocasia."
---------------------------
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brothers%27_War,
" Ashnod sends a Golgothian sylex to Urza to end the war while she fights the demon Gix. Urza uses the Golgothian sylex to create an enormous blast that cripples the world, ending the war, and devastating all peoples of Dominaria. Gix escaped through the portal to another world of Phyrexia in the cave where the stone was found. Urza becomes a Planeswalker, a being able to travel between worlds, and the Mightstone and Weakstone become his eyes. And with his final words to Tawnos, Urza fades off of Dominaria."
-------------------------------------------
amd from http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Karn,
"Finally, as all hope of victory seemed lost, Karn united with Urza and Gerrard. When Gerrard placed Urza's powerstone eyes, the Mightstone and Weakstone, into Karn, the Legacy released a wave of white mana, destroying the Phyrexians and defeating Yawgmoth. While the two humans were killed, the powerstones turned Karn into the first -- and, so far as is known, only -- artificial planeswalker. "
----------------------------------
Interesting story of the Eyes of Urza.
Could another Phyrexian invasion be coming?
Could the Thran be returning?
Remember the obscure death rule.
No Body? Dont count him as dead.
Heres a Storyline Wiki for more detail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_storylines
I was actually referring to Karn.
Karona visited Phyrexia, and a weak Yawgmoth was mentioned, but it "may" have been an alternate timeline. With the closing of the rifts, who knows what overlayed from other realities.
Perhaps Urzas eyes once again opened the way to Phyrexia.
Or perhaps even to the Thran themselves.
They would like Karn I think.
"New Phyrexia" could be refering to the Eldrazi. It would be a Meta-reference, but not outside the possibility of an oldwalker to make.