I've been playing MTG since Ixalan was out , so I never played cards that had the proliferate abillity on them , but now since War of The Spark is almost there , Proliferate is a genuine thing. As this allows you ( please correct me when I'm wrong ) to choose for either myself and/or the opponent(s) I am playing against , to have any permanents with any sort of counters on them to get another counter of that kind. So talking about counters , there can be any sort of counter , right ? a silver counter with Karn, Scion of Urza , a phylactery counter with Phylactery Lich or even a landmark counter on a treasure map , a corpse counter , an aim counter a , prey counter ,etc.... and a loyalty counter on a planeswalker and ofcourse the +1/+1 Counters we all know. So If I proliferate in a two person match, and my opponent has a two creatures , both leonin vanguard , one of them has two +1/+1 counters on it and the other one none. He also has a Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants planeswalker with a loyalty counter standing on 2. On my side I have a treasure map with 2 landmark counters on it and also a Liliana, Untouched by Death planeswalker with loyalty counter on 5.
Now if I play a Banewhip punisher , and when it enters , I want it to target the Leonin with the two +1/+1 counters on it to give it the -1/-1 counter. Does one of these positive +1/+1 counters level out one negative-1/-1 counter , so it dissapears ? ( not only showing its result in strength and toughness ) and thus making it impossible to pay the price for two mana and to sacrifice the banewhip punisher which allows me to destroy a creature with a -1/-1 counter on it ?
Is a +1/+1 counter a different sort of counter than a -1/-1 counter in the same way a phylactery counter is different from a landmark counter or an energy counter ? So if you would proliferate and a creature an opponent controls that allready has a -1/-1 counter on it , would it then get an additional -1/-1 counter it ? Just as the treasure map would get an extra landmark counter ?Or would it get a +1/+1 counter balancing both the positive +1/+1 and the negative -1/-1 counter out to zero ?( because in essence a +1/+1 counter is the same sort of counter than a -1/-1 counter, just that in one case it's either on positive , negative or zero ? ) And why do the loyalty counters of a planeswalker always go up when you proliferate ? because having one planeswalker entering the field at 5 , reducing the loyalty counter in my turn to 2 by doing the -3 abbility does this in fact mean ; put 3 neative loyalty counters on it ?, will it then actually have a -3 counter , or do we just deal with the fact that the loyalty counter is reduced by 3 and now stands on 2 ?
Under current rules, to "proliferate means to choose any number of permanents and/or players that have a counter, then give each exactly one additional counter of a kind" already there (C.R. 701.26a). The permanents chosen this way need not all be controlled by the same player, and more than one player can be chosen this way.
What will beis new with War of the Spark is that while proliferating, if a permanent or player has counters of two or more different kinds (e.g., a phylactery counter and two +1/+1 counters), that permanent or player is given a counter of each such kind (in this example, one phylactery counter and one +1/+1 counter) rather than one counter of only one such kind (C.R. 701.26a). Proliferating still involves "choos[ing] any number of permanents and/or players that have a counter"; the permanents chosen this way need not all be controlled by the same player, and more than one player with counters can be chosen this way (C.R. 701.26a).
Proliferating doesn't let you put a -1/-1 counter on a permanent or player without any -1/-1 counters on it, or a counter of any other kind on a permanent or player without that kind of counter on it (C.R. 701.26a).
In any case, if a -1/-1 counter is put on a permanent with a +1/+1 counter on it, or vice versa, +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters are removed from that permanent in pairs as a state-based action (C.R. 704.5q). For the purposes of proliferating, +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters are two different "kinds" of counters (C.R. 121.1, 121.1a).
Also, the "-3" loyalty symbol means "Remove three loyalty counters from this permanent", not, say, "Put three negative loyalty counters on this permanent" (C.R. 107.7).
EDIT (May 1): Edited.
EDIT (May 3): Edited now that War of the Spark is released.
EDIT (Jun. 20): Further edited.
Now if I play a Banewhip punisher , and when it enters , I want it to target the Leonin with the two +1/+1 counters on it to give it the -1/-1 counter. Does one of these positive +1/+1 counters level out one negative-1/-1 counter , so it dissapears ? ( not only showing its result in strength and toughness ) and thus making it impossible to pay the price for two mana and to sacrifice the banewhip punisher which allows me to destroy a creature with a -1/-1 counter on it ?
Is a +1/+1 counter a different sort of counter than a -1/-1 counter in the same way a phylactery counter is different from a landmark counter or an energy counter ? So if you would proliferate and a creature an opponent controls that allready has a -1/-1 counter on it , would it then get an additional -1/-1 counter it ? Just as the treasure map would get an extra landmark counter ?Or would it get a +1/+1 counter balancing both the positive +1/+1 and the negative -1/-1 counter out to zero ?( because in essence a +1/+1 counter is the same sort of counter than a -1/-1 counter, just that in one case it's either on positive , negative or zero ? ) And why do the loyalty counters of a planeswalker always go up when you proliferate ? because having one planeswalker entering the field at 5 , reducing the loyalty counter in my turn to 2 by doing the -3 abbility does this in fact mean ; put 3 neative loyalty counters on it ?, will it then actually have a -3 counter , or do we just deal with the fact that the loyalty counter is reduced by 3 and now stands on 2 ?
Under current rules, to "proliferate means to choose any number of permanents and/or players that have a counter, then give each exactly one additional counter of a kind" already there (C.R. 701.26a). The permanents chosen this way need not all be controlled by the same player, and more than one player can be chosen this way.What
will beis new with War of the Spark is that while proliferating, if a permanent or player has counters of two or more different kinds (e.g., a phylactery counter and two +1/+1 counters), that permanent or player is given a counter of each such kind (in this example, one phylactery counter and one +1/+1 counter) rather than one counter of only one such kind (C.R. 701.26a). Proliferating still involves "choos[ing] any number of permanents and/or players that have a counter"; the permanents chosen this way need not all be controlled by the same player, and more than one player with counters can be chosen this way (C.R. 701.26a).Proliferating doesn't let you put a -1/-1 counter on a permanent or player without any -1/-1 counters on it, or a counter of any other kind on a permanent or player without that kind of counter on it (C.R. 701.26a).
In any case, if a -1/-1 counter is put on a permanent with a +1/+1 counter on it, or vice versa, +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters are removed from that permanent in pairs as a state-based action (C.R. 704.5q). For the purposes of proliferating, +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters are two different "kinds" of counters (C.R. 121.1, 121.1a).
Also, the "-3" loyalty symbol means "Remove three loyalty counters from this permanent", not, say, "Put three negative loyalty counters on this permanent" (C.R. 107.7).
EDIT (May 1): Edited.
EDIT (May 3): Edited now that War of the Spark is released.
EDIT (Jun. 20): Further edited.