OK, so I'm trying to understand how to work around/against Manabarbs. Here's the scenario, I have 5 untapped Islands and 5 untapped Mountains in play. I am at 1 life and my opponent is at 5 life. I have Banefire in hand on my turn, during my main phase, with an empty stack.
First, am I correct that given no other factors, there is no way to kill my opponent with Banefire right now? If I try to "float" the mana by tapping my lands before I announce the Banefire, the Manabarbs triggers will go on the stack preventing me from adding the sorcery to the stack, right? And if I announce the Banefire first, then tap the mana, the Manabarbs triggers will go on the stack above the Banefire, resolving first and killing me before Banefire resolves, right?
The part I'm iffy about is if I can maneuver this situation if I have Twincast available as well. Can I announce the Banefire for X=5, tap the 6 mana required, allow Banefire and the 6 Manabarbs triggers to go on the stack, THEN cast Twincast targetting my Banefire to kill my opponent? This seems like it should work, but I have a sinking feeling that I'm missing something, as usually when you're at 1 and Manabarbs is out, you're likely done for. Am I missing something, or does this work?
OK, so I'm trying to understand how to work around/against Manabarbs. Here's the scenario, I have 5 untapped Islands and 5 untapped Mountains in play. I am at 1 life and my opponent is at 5 life. I have Banefire in hand on my turn, during my main phase, with an empty stack.
First, am I correct that given no other factors, there is no way to kill my opponent with Banefire right now? If I try to "float" the mana by tapping my lands before I announce the Banefire, the Manabarbs triggers will go on the stack preventing me from adding the sorcery to the stack, right? And if I announce the Banefire first, then tap the mana, the Manabarbs triggers will go on the stack above the Banefire, resolving first and killing me before Banefire resolves, right?
The part I'm iffy about is if I can maneuver this situation if I have Twincast available as well. Can I announce the Banefire for X=5, tap the 6 mana required, allow Banefire and the 6 Manabarbs triggers to go on the stack, THEN cast Twincast targetting my Banefire to kill my opponent? This seems like it should work, but I have a sinking feeling that I'm missing something, as usually when you're at 1 and Manabarbs is out, you're likely done for. Am I missing something, or does this work?
You are correct that you cannot have Banefire resolve before Manabarbs triggers in the first scenario, but you can win with Twincast as long as you tap the necessary Islands after announcing Banefire but before annoucing Twincast.
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I disagree. Once you've put the mana into your mana pool, the stack has to empty for you to be able to play a sorcery. So, you'd have to allow the Manabarbs triggers to resolve before playing Banefire. With no Banefire, Twincast would have nothing to target. You would have to use an instant.
Ghitu Fire would get you out of this scenario, though. Pay R7 and cast it as an instant while the Manabarbs triggers are still on the stack, dealing four damage to your opponent. Assuming that would kill him before the Manabarbs kills you.
Incorrect. You are allowed to activate mana abilities during the payment portion of playing a spell or ability. All the manabarb triggers wait to be put on the stack after banefire is played. Then you can tap two lands, put the manabarb triggers on the stack, and respond with twincast.
I disagree. Once you've put the mana into your mana pool, the stack has to empty for you to be able to play a sorcery. So, you'd have to allow the Manabarbs triggers to resolve before playing Banefire. With no Banefire, Twincast would have nothing to target. You would have to use an instant.
Ghitu Fire would get you out of this scenario, though. Pay R6 and cast it as an instant while the Manabarbs triggers are still on the stack, dealing four damage to your opponent. Assuming that would kill him before the Manabarbs kills you.
wow, I really need to learn to type faster.
You are missing the rule that allows you to activate mana abilities in the process of casting a spell.
605.3a A player may activate an activated mana ability whenever he or she has priority, whenever he or she is casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect asks for a mana payment, even if it’s in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or resolving an ability.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
First, am I correct that given no other factors, there is no way to kill my opponent with Banefire right now? If I try to "float" the mana by tapping my lands before I announce the Banefire, the Manabarbs triggers will go on the stack preventing me from adding the sorcery to the stack, right? And if I announce the Banefire first, then tap the mana, the Manabarbs triggers will go on the stack above the Banefire, resolving first and killing me before Banefire resolves, right?
The part I'm iffy about is if I can maneuver this situation if I have Twincast available as well. Can I announce the Banefire for X=5, tap the 6 mana required, allow Banefire and the 6 Manabarbs triggers to go on the stack, THEN cast Twincast targetting my Banefire to kill my opponent? This seems like it should work, but I have a sinking feeling that I'm missing something, as usually when you're at 1 and Manabarbs is out, you're likely done for. Am I missing something, or does this work?
You are correct that you cannot have Banefire resolve before Manabarbs triggers in the first scenario, but you can win with Twincast as long as you tap the necessary Islands after announcing Banefire but before annoucing Twincast.
Incorrect. You are allowed to activate mana abilities during the payment portion of playing a spell or ability. All the manabarb triggers wait to be put on the stack after banefire is played. Then you can tap two lands, put the manabarb triggers on the stack, and respond with twincast.
You are missing the rule that allows you to activate mana abilities in the process of casting a spell.
I knew better but typed without thinking.
Thanks.
MTGO has ruined me. It makes it too easy to be complacent.