So over the years I have noticed a few of these types of threads on how to deal with sore winners/losers, how you feel when you misplay, how you react to overly judgemental opponents ect.
So here's my question, how do you handle losing? Do you get defensive, angry, sad, whatever? I'm mostly asking because there was a time when it was a big deal for me. I spent a lot of money on highly competitive, powerful standard cards and it felt like it made the stakes really high when i was playing. I won most of my FNM games, got prizes and had good trades but whenever i lost it was SO much worse, because in the back of my mind i was thinking "this deck cost me way too much money".
Then I had an epiphany.
Magic is a game. Unless you are a pro, you play it to have fun. I decided to cut back on buying the expensive chase mythics and just used what i opened in packs. I started building budget friendly, rogue type decks with little playability outside FNMs. From that point on, no matter how i fared I found the experience of playing magic much more enjoyable. If i lost two games, but won one against a player who was using a deck that cost 10 times mine i still felt like a better player and came away satisfied. Obviously i don't say this out-loud to my opponents, but it was a very liberating transformation and i suggest it to anyone who has been feeling similarly frustrated.
A majority of the time I am playing Goblins so I'm never spending too much money so any loss I take be it a close game or a flat out curb stomp is never too bad at all. I am mostly a kitchen table player and rarely a FNM attendee so, seeking out serious competition and a constant need to win are never really driving me to play this game(I do think winning is a nice bonus but isn't always essential for me). I do it mostly for the fun of being a Goblin Tribesmen, the flavor and the story line, and the art work.
In recent memory, the only time I really got annoyed or close to angry at a loss was the weekend after the game day for Innistrad. My modified Kuldotha Red which destroyed everyone the first night I used it at a FNM just did absolutely nothing to M12/Innistrad Zombie combos, G/W creature decks, and R/G Innistrad/M12 aggro decks. I just couldn't shore up a position against any of them and the burn just couldn't last against the change of the meta.
So, I left that night stewing in anger a little bit though more angry at the situation than the losses really. I mean, going 0-4 before leaving does not feel very good to begin with but, the fact in some of those matches I didn't win even once made it sting worse.
I handle losing fine most of time. Heck, most of the games I lose I thank the person because we both recognize it was such a great game. Sure sometimes I get mad when the person I'm playing against is a male reproductive organ, is a sore winner, and/or wins via 90% luck (not skill or deck construction) but doesn't everybody? Then I forget about it and move on.
My problem is with my winning however, I don't want to sound cocky, but I win the majority of my matches thanks to rules knowledge, deck construction, etc., and it breaks my heart when I have to play someone new, less skilled, etc... Sure I try to turn it into a learning experience about rules and give them pointers so they can at least try to beat me but... Man, it just doesn't feel right. :/
I use the Duels Of The Planeswalkers layout, though I'm right-handed and keep my deck and GY to the left. I dare you to ask me how tempting it is to hold flying creatures in a floating pattern over the table.
I think that a big part of how I handle losing is attributable to how I lost.
If I lost because I couldn't draw a second land in games 2 and 3, I'm going to be pretty upset. Partially at my opponent, partially at myself, and mostly at random variation for not dealing me the right cards (quite literally, in this case).
If it was a close game and I played well, gave it my all, and still came up short, well, I'm going to be a lot less upset, and I will gladly and respectfully tip my hand to an opponent who was the better player in that match.
Sadly, I can't say that I do the greatest of always being as gracious as I ought to be, and it's something that I do need to work on more, since I can come off as rather frustrated / rude when I lose matches that I feel I should have had a chance at but didn't (for whatever reason). I think the best example of me really getting upset was at the AVR prerelease when I pulled absolute crap (3 of my six rares were black and I had hardly any removal of decent sized creatures, in a format where black is borderline unplayable)
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Former Level 2 Judge (Retired / Renounced)
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
I try to be graceful, and smile. Sometimes, though, if my opponent says something akin to "You played well" I'll say "Not my best, I made X error." It often sparks talks about the error, if it was really an error, ect.
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Decks:
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
I actually enjoy losing, as silly as that may sound, because it forces me to think critcally about my play. I always try to look back at the points where victory was snatched and figure out exactly what, if anything, I could have done to change it. I consider myself a good player, but I am certainly no master and losing not only keeps me grounded, but also deepens my knowledge of my deck. I lost to a huge aggro rush? Maybe I need to restructure the board-presence of the deck. I overextended into a sweeper? Maybe next time I can play more conservatively or change the play order of keep threats.
I always thank the opponents for the game, offer a handshake, and then ask if they would like to play again or if I can view their deck. In my experience, the standard players around here are less inclined to agree to either of these, but the Modern, Pauper, and Legacy players just love to show off their deck and answer any questions I have.
Losing is the best way to improve. I will take ten losses at an event over a single win if it helps me improve as a player. That way, when I start winning against very skilled opponents I will have worked for it.
I started playing mono-Black Legacy Pox recently and I learned more in my first tournament that I went 0-3 in than I did last week when I went 3-0. I have a much better understanding of the deck, its weaknesses, and how to mitigate them. Everyone who beats you does so for a reason- find that reason, take it to heart, and make it disappear from the future equations.
Generally I am a sore loser but I am pretty good about it
However I have started getting quite a bit better at MtG and now my friends gang up on me more often and it can get very frustrating at times
When they gang up on me as soon as the game starts I will usually take the loss and leave the room for a bit since our games can go on for a while and they kill me very, very quickly
To me it isn't so much losing, it's losing so fast that I don't get to play while they go at it for another 30 minutes to an hour.
I handle losing fine most of time. Heck, most of the games I lose I thank the person because we both recognize it was such a great game. Sure sometimes I get mad when the person I'm playing against is a male reproductive organ, is a sore winner.
This...to an extent.
My wife and I spend WAY too much on Magic. Part of that is catching up to the current standard situation from a decade long break, and should slow down soon as we've got most of the staples, and those we don't have rotate out. Even still, I have fun PLAYING. I recognize that this is a game, and while there are certain games that aren't fun to play (mana screw/mana flood isn't fun...but happens. Just have to get past it,) and certain phrases/behaviors that just plain tweak me the wrong way, I just know to avoid playing that person again if possible.
Past this, I couldn't really care less if I lose. I go to FNM to play my newest silly, janky idea deck. I like building them, and then I like playing them. I pull out some wins, and I have some fun. Part of what helps is the fact that I don't really care about the prize on the line (some promo card? Cool, but meh,) and I just want to PLAY. I could play budget, and kudos to those who do, but I don't feel particularly constrained to do so just because I'm not running a recognized competitive deck. I want to play with the expensive/cool rares sometimes.
Bottom line, I don't tilt, and I don't get depressed when I lose. I had an extraordinarily full life prior to getting back into Magic, and it's still there. Magic isn't the only thing I derive my sense of self from, so losing isn't a huge hit. At my LGS, the wife and I have made tons of friends, and I've noticed I get a lot of questions about my opinion on card interactions, and deck ideas, so I guess they think I'm at least SOMEWHAT knowledgeable. HA! Got them fooled!
I take losing well. I enjoy playing this game so much, and lose often enough, that losing just doesn't bug me that much. Besides, I'll go 2-2 at a typical FNM and that's more than good enough for me. Now, maybe if I went 0-4 week after week, it would be a different story. But I'm a decent enough player (very average) where I know I can beat the weaker players at our LGS even though I know I have little chance against the better players. Knowing this going in makes the losses a lot easier to take.
Do I ever get upset at a loss? Sure. Once in a while I'll lose in such a way that is so off the wall that I can't help but shake my head at the end of the match. But for the most part, I'm pretty even tempered win or lose.
I think a lot of it has to do with how long I've been playing this game. While it bothers me in general that I'm not better than I am after 19 years, I also have kind of accepted it. Some things people just aren't that good at and these are one of those things for me.
Besides, playing with my friends on Friday night is my highlight of the week. I'm not going to let a couple of losses ruin my one night out. That has something to do with my attitude as well.
Frustration comes from a feeling of impotence. Once you understand that magic is 85% luck, and that everyone else is just as unempowered as you to change their fate, the game stops being frustrating, win or lose.
Of course, that 15% is very difficult to get, and the journey to get it is very rewarding. That's why I play.
I've seen this thread so many times I think we should just get a mod to sticky it sometimes.
As for handling losing?
I don't like it. I hate it. I'm competitive so losing is like dragging nails on a chalkboard while someone plays an organ grinder of that sound to the tune of Justin Bieber's 'Baby.'
However it is something that happens, the key is to learn something from it.
For some reason I dont mind losing to aggro but losing to control from say a lucky termanius draw or a 5 card + life swing from a sphinx's revalationmakes me very bitter.
I dont mind losing its just I would prefer not losing to deck that costs about 100x what mind costs :/
In casual I dont mind generally its fun and its interesting just how many possible ways there are for our decks to beat each other
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
When I lose I try to figure out why. Whether it be casual or competitive. Did I make a misplay early on? Do I need more/less of X in my deck? Should I sideboard in more counters for Y? Did I miss a counter? Did my opponent make any mistakes I didn't take full advantage of?
Magic is a mental game, I handle losing by analyzing the game and what I did right/wrong so that in future games I don't make the same mistakes and make better plays.
Also, my opponent top decking a answer for the win doesn't bother me much. It means I should have killed them 1 turn sooner.
The only times I get visibly upset in a game is when I'm playing a deck with a high land count and I suddenly stall on two lands. Nothing is more enraging to me.
The only times I get visibly upset in a game is when I'm playing a deck with a high land count and I suddenly stall on two lands. Nothing is more enraging to me.
I try not to make excuses. I often hear that from people I play with and against. Examples such as, "I just needed 1 more card!" or "You top decked that win."
I prefer to win, don't get me wrong. But I also accept that I'm a very average player.
An example is a modern PTQ I went to recently. I went 3-3-1 and ended up in 43rd place out of 116 people. Very average.
I tied a match I could have won because I did not see the play. Some better, more skilled players saw it and called me on it afterwards. I admitted to it and now I know a little more about the game.
I have a bunch of expensive cards, but I like playing lots of different decks.
I don't ever want my life to be one where losing at magic makes me that angry.
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
It all depends if money is on the line or not. For example, sealed tournaments generally cost $25. That's a lot of money to spend on one tournament. In order to make your money back, you have to hope to open money cards. Chances are, you won't, in which case you'll have to make top 8 and hope to open money cards in your packs. Then, even if you do open money cards, most stores only buy cards for 50% of the value. This means that you'll have to open $50 worth of rares just to BREAK EVEN. Not an easy task.
It's situations like that that stress me out every time I play magic. When you put money on the line, you have to be stressed out about making your money back. It becomes an impossible task to pull off every time, and you're ultimately losing a lot of money in the long run. When money doesn't come easily to you, it becomes very frustrating to lose. This is why I quit magic (along with the fact that singles are ridiculously overpriced, and magic has become a cardboard stock market).
So to answer the main question, I don't handle losing well. I get pissed, pack up my deck in frustration, and storm off. Of course, I don't usually have a problem losing to someone who I know is clearly better than me. A loss just tells me that I have to work harder to beat them next time. I get REALLY mad though when I lose to some no-name playing 24 creatures and 16 lands, for example. Or if I know my deck is good, but I lose to variance.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
When you put money on the line, you have to be stressed out about making your money back.
I would not reccommend playing MTG if that's your feeling about it. As you said, making your $$ back on MTG is extremely difficult given the average value of the cards and what you can get for them.
I view entry fee's as the cost of the amusement park. I don't count on finding $$ on the street when I go to Disneyland. I pay to have fun. If I do get lucky enough to crack $$ cards and make it back, that's purely a bonus.
Usually, I distract myself from the "pain of loss" by analyzing the decisions I made in game that could have changed my loss into a victory and whether those decisions were right or wrong. I think I've only raged 2, and not at an actual person, just internally. Punting top 8 for states in back to back matches, and going to time in a match do to being to cordial while I was boarding. I would have won the game easily on turn 6. I ended up getting paired up and running into 2 bad matches back to back. Usually though, I don't lose much and I accept my losses as learning experiences so I don't care.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
So here's my question, how do you handle losing? Do you get defensive, angry, sad, whatever? I'm mostly asking because there was a time when it was a big deal for me. I spent a lot of money on highly competitive, powerful standard cards and it felt like it made the stakes really high when i was playing. I won most of my FNM games, got prizes and had good trades but whenever i lost it was SO much worse, because in the back of my mind i was thinking "this deck cost me way too much money".
Then I had an epiphany.
Magic is a game. Unless you are a pro, you play it to have fun. I decided to cut back on buying the expensive chase mythics and just used what i opened in packs. I started building budget friendly, rogue type decks with little playability outside FNMs. From that point on, no matter how i fared I found the experience of playing magic much more enjoyable. If i lost two games, but won one against a player who was using a deck that cost 10 times mine i still felt like a better player and came away satisfied. Obviously i don't say this out-loud to my opponents, but it was a very liberating transformation and i suggest it to anyone who has been feeling similarly frustrated.
A majority of the time I am playing Goblins so I'm never spending too much money so any loss I take be it a close game or a flat out curb stomp is never too bad at all. I am mostly a kitchen table player and rarely a FNM attendee so, seeking out serious competition and a constant need to win are never really driving me to play this game(I do think winning is a nice bonus but isn't always essential for me). I do it mostly for the fun of being a Goblin Tribesmen, the flavor and the story line, and the art work.
In recent memory, the only time I really got annoyed or close to angry at a loss was the weekend after the game day for Innistrad. My modified Kuldotha Red which destroyed everyone the first night I used it at a FNM just did absolutely nothing to M12/Innistrad Zombie combos, G/W creature decks, and R/G Innistrad/M12 aggro decks. I just couldn't shore up a position against any of them and the burn just couldn't last against the change of the meta.
So, I left that night stewing in anger a little bit though more angry at the situation than the losses really. I mean, going 0-4 before leaving does not feel very good to begin with but, the fact in some of those matches I didn't win even once made it sting worse.
I handle losing fine most of time. Heck, most of the games I lose I thank the person because we both recognize it was such a great game. Sure sometimes I get mad when the person I'm playing against is a male reproductive organ, is a sore winner, and/or wins via 90% luck (not skill or deck construction) but doesn't everybody? Then I forget about it and move on.
My problem is with my winning however, I don't want to sound cocky, but I win the majority of my matches thanks to rules knowledge, deck construction, etc., and it breaks my heart when I have to play someone new, less skilled, etc... Sure I try to turn it into a learning experience about rules and give them pointers so they can at least try to beat me but... Man, it just doesn't feel right. :/
Casual game, I don't care, shuffle up and lets play again
Tournament setting, I usually life rage to myself for a few minutes, then go play some EDH and forget about it.
If I lost because I couldn't draw a second land in games 2 and 3, I'm going to be pretty upset. Partially at my opponent, partially at myself, and mostly at random variation for not dealing me the right cards (quite literally, in this case).
If it was a close game and I played well, gave it my all, and still came up short, well, I'm going to be a lot less upset, and I will gladly and respectfully tip my hand to an opponent who was the better player in that match.
Sadly, I can't say that I do the greatest of always being as gracious as I ought to be, and it's something that I do need to work on more, since I can come off as rather frustrated / rude when I lose matches that I feel I should have had a chance at but didn't (for whatever reason). I think the best example of me really getting upset was at the AVR prerelease when I pulled absolute crap (3 of my six rares were black and I had hardly any removal of decent sized creatures, in a format where black is borderline unplayable)
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
I always thank the opponents for the game, offer a handshake, and then ask if they would like to play again or if I can view their deck. In my experience, the standard players around here are less inclined to agree to either of these, but the Modern, Pauper, and Legacy players just love to show off their deck and answer any questions I have.
Losing is the best way to improve. I will take ten losses at an event over a single win if it helps me improve as a player. That way, when I start winning against very skilled opponents I will have worked for it.
I started playing mono-Black Legacy Pox recently and I learned more in my first tournament that I went 0-3 in than I did last week when I went 3-0. I have a much better understanding of the deck, its weaknesses, and how to mitigate them. Everyone who beats you does so for a reason- find that reason, take it to heart, and make it disappear from the future equations.
Generally I am a sore loser but I am pretty good about it
However I have started getting quite a bit better at MtG and now my friends gang up on me more often and it can get very frustrating at times
When they gang up on me as soon as the game starts I will usually take the loss and leave the room for a bit since our games can go on for a while and they kill me very, very quickly
To me it isn't so much losing, it's losing so fast that I don't get to play while they go at it for another 30 minutes to an hour.
This...to an extent.
My wife and I spend WAY too much on Magic. Part of that is catching up to the current standard situation from a decade long break, and should slow down soon as we've got most of the staples, and those we don't have rotate out. Even still, I have fun PLAYING. I recognize that this is a game, and while there are certain games that aren't fun to play (mana screw/mana flood isn't fun...but happens. Just have to get past it,) and certain phrases/behaviors that just plain tweak me the wrong way, I just know to avoid playing that person again if possible.
Past this, I couldn't really care less if I lose. I go to FNM to play my newest silly, janky idea deck. I like building them, and then I like playing them. I pull out some wins, and I have some fun. Part of what helps is the fact that I don't really care about the prize on the line (some promo card? Cool, but meh,) and I just want to PLAY. I could play budget, and kudos to those who do, but I don't feel particularly constrained to do so just because I'm not running a recognized competitive deck. I want to play with the expensive/cool rares sometimes.
Bottom line, I don't tilt, and I don't get depressed when I lose. I had an extraordinarily full life prior to getting back into Magic, and it's still there. Magic isn't the only thing I derive my sense of self from, so losing isn't a huge hit. At my LGS, the wife and I have made tons of friends, and I've noticed I get a lot of questions about my opinion on card interactions, and deck ideas, so I guess they think I'm at least SOMEWHAT knowledgeable. HA! Got them fooled!
I don't think I've raged about losing in mtg. I did have some moments where I got pissed at myself for making a mistake.
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
Do I ever get upset at a loss? Sure. Once in a while I'll lose in such a way that is so off the wall that I can't help but shake my head at the end of the match. But for the most part, I'm pretty even tempered win or lose.
I think a lot of it has to do with how long I've been playing this game. While it bothers me in general that I'm not better than I am after 19 years, I also have kind of accepted it. Some things people just aren't that good at and these are one of those things for me.
Besides, playing with my friends on Friday night is my highlight of the week. I'm not going to let a couple of losses ruin my one night out. That has something to do with my attitude as well.
Of course, that 15% is very difficult to get, and the journey to get it is very rewarding. That's why I play.
As for handling losing?
I don't like it. I hate it. I'm competitive so losing is like dragging nails on a chalkboard while someone plays an organ grinder of that sound to the tune of Justin Bieber's 'Baby.'
However it is something that happens, the key is to learn something from it.
I dont mind losing its just I would prefer not losing to deck that costs about 100x what mind costs :/
In casual I dont mind generally its fun and its interesting just how many possible ways there are for our decks to beat each other
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Magic is a mental game, I handle losing by analyzing the game and what I did right/wrong so that in future games I don't make the same mistakes and make better plays.
Also, my opponent top decking a answer for the win doesn't bother me much. It means I should have killed them 1 turn sooner.
Focus: Omnath, Locus of Mana EDH.
You should probably Mulligan more.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
And then I get stuck with one-land hands with my luck.
Focus: Omnath, Locus of Mana EDH.
I prefer to win, don't get me wrong. But I also accept that I'm a very average player.
An example is a modern PTQ I went to recently. I went 3-3-1 and ended up in 43rd place out of 116 people. Very average.
I tied a match I could have won because I did not see the play. Some better, more skilled players saw it and called me on it afterwards. I admitted to it and now I know a little more about the game.
I have a bunch of expensive cards, but I like playing lots of different decks.
I don't ever want my life to be one where losing at magic makes me that angry.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
It's situations like that that stress me out every time I play magic. When you put money on the line, you have to be stressed out about making your money back. It becomes an impossible task to pull off every time, and you're ultimately losing a lot of money in the long run. When money doesn't come easily to you, it becomes very frustrating to lose. This is why I quit magic (along with the fact that singles are ridiculously overpriced, and magic has become a cardboard stock market).
So to answer the main question, I don't handle losing well. I get pissed, pack up my deck in frustration, and storm off. Of course, I don't usually have a problem losing to someone who I know is clearly better than me. A loss just tells me that I have to work harder to beat them next time. I get REALLY mad though when I lose to some no-name playing 24 creatures and 16 lands, for example. Or if I know my deck is good, but I lose to variance.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
I would not reccommend playing MTG if that's your feeling about it. As you said, making your $$ back on MTG is extremely difficult given the average value of the cards and what you can get for them.
I view entry fee's as the cost of the amusement park. I don't count on finding $$ on the street when I go to Disneyland. I pay to have fun. If I do get lucky enough to crack $$ cards and make it back, that's purely a bonus.