Every sit down at a draft, pre-release, tournament, or at home with some friends to play a game of magic when some annoying habits of the other players rear their ugly head. They might not effect your gameplay but they are there slowly driving you insane. I'm talking more about physical habits, rather than playstyles.
I get fairly annoyed when people mindlessly shuffle their hands at rapids speeds. I never say anything, but geeze man are you in a rush to finish the game? Another aggravating thing is when people arrange their side of the board so that you have trouble seeing what is going on. One one the worst things I've seen is people who rush through their turns, especially when that player does copious actions. I do like it when players calmly play with a moderate pace.
Stop That is my favorite discard spell for a reason, and every set I wish to see a functional reprint of it.
Speaking of which it's insanely powerful in a 4player Un-game. Oh you just killed his BFM? I happen to have a Stop That in my *audible card flick* "Gotcha. I cast Stop That discard a card." *audible card flick* "Gotcha. Time to discard again." repeat till out of black mana.
Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
Some older players seem to have the habit of arranging the cards in play so that the mana base is at the center of the table (closer to the opponent) while the creatures, enchantments, etc. are close to the player. It makes it really hard to see what the creatures are and their abilities. I can see that you have 6 mountains thanks, but I want/need to see the text on your creatures without having to pick them up all the time.
I get fairly annoyed when people mindlessly shuffle their hands at rapids speeds.
This is a popular technique to tilt your opponent.
I hate it when the guy sitting across from me has to read every single card 10 times. I'm sorry but if you can't remember what a card does for the length of a game, let alone a match, you need to stop playing competitve magic until you get better.
Seriously, I've played against deaf guys who read the cards less often than some people I've played against.
This is a popular technique to tilt your opponent.
What exactly does this mean?
Some of the older players I've played with have a lack of social skills. It's amazing how much a card game means to some people. But really using anything outside the game to influence the game is just childish.
now that I know there's a reason for that I will refuse to play people who do it. It's just lame and immature. This isn't poker.
I'd suggest asking them to stop nicely. If they won't call a judge over and request the judge ask them to stop creating a very audible distraction in attempts to cause you to make bad plays with full intention of annoying and distracting you as you play. Especially if they respond with outright hostility to you politely asking them to stop. http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/WPN/Main/Documents/Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules_PDF2.pdf
5.4 Unsporting Conduct
Unsporting conduct will not be tolerated at any time. Tournament participants must behave in a polite and
respectful manner. Unsporting conduct includes, but is not limited to:
• Using profanity
• Acting in a threatening manner
• Arguing with, acting belligerently toward, or harassing tournament officials, players or spectators
• Failure to follow the instructions of a tournament official
All incidents of unsporting conduct are subject to further DCI review.
The Card Flicking is about the most annoying thing.
Playing music on their cell phone is the most annoying thing I've run across.
"Really, I have to call a judge because you won't turn it off after I nicely asked you?"
If I'm listening to music at all during a game it'll be with one earbud in or just one side of the headphones down and the other away from my free ear, and turned down relatively low. If I miss something cause of music it's on me and I won't say anything negative about it towards you.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
About the card flicking thing, I don't think everyone does it to annoy or gain an advantage. I do it just out of force of habit, not to force people into bad plays, but if someone asked me to stop I would.
The ones who argue to death about them being right
Granted I only play against friends for now, but for 2-3 weeks straight we had to explain to a friend (who've played mtg longer than us) how infect works. He keeps insisting infect does the -1/-1 AND combat damage.
And yes, my friends play with their Mana on top part of the playmat and everything else at the bottom part. I keep asking them move your creatures up, don't care about your mana lol. (i'm RDW player so I don't really care haha)
It's amazing how much a card game means to some people. But really using anything outside the game to influence the game is just childish.
I'm happy to let almost anything go during a casual / FNM game, but in a tournament with hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on the line, everything means a lot more to me.
I don't understand how using outside influences (mind tricks?) is childish.
I'm happy to let almost anything go during a casual / FNM game, but in a tournament with hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on the line, everything means a lot more to me.
I don't understand how using outside influences (mind tricks?) is childish.
Because it shows your own lack of ability for one. You can't win on the merit of your knowledge, your skill, and your deck so you rely on what is effectively trying to make your opponent screw up by being annoying on purpose. That's really just poor sportsmanship.
But let's explore that a step further. By using an outside influence to win a game I could, by your assertion, arrange to have the store/event called with an "urgent" message about your car having been stolen. Or your house was broken into. Or you're loved ones got injured. All of these would be outside influences being used to cause you to either rush the game, misplay out of concern, or outright quit mid game. Are you saying all of these are ok? They're all outside influences and none of them specifically violate any thing in the rulebook except for being unsportsmanly conduct.
Let's take it a little less extreme then. Say you're in the final round and your opponent is doing really well. You start with your card flicking to try to mess him up. He nods to a friend who begins talking obnoxiously loud right behind you about other plays throughout the night and making sure to add in discussion of number of mana tapped and damage taken and life totals whenever you try to check any of those in your own game. He's now throwing you off your game by distracting you. It's outside of your game and not directed towards you but it is certainly an outside influence and it's likely having a direct effect on the game. He isn't breaking any rules he's just talking about some matches he's had. People do it constantly. He just happens to be right behind you and speaking loudly. If you say anything to him about distracting you then you become a hypocrite for attempting to do the exact same thing to your opponent, just not as loudly.
Or what if your opponent starts announcing everything he could do with the mana he has, and even things he could do if he had X. And spends your entire turn discussing verbally all the things he could have and could do to impede you. I don't know about you but when opponents do this to me it gets annoying quickly. They aren't actually breaking any rules, but they are being obnoxious. And if it causes you to rush and misplay then they capitalize on it and win? It's your fault for misplaying not theirs for distracting and agitating you until you misplayed.
Either way it's an influence outside of the cards in hand, on the board, and involved in the game and the players own knowledge and skill causing direct effects on the outcome of the game. Which would be termed as "outside influence".
It's childish for the fact that it basically boils down to school yard taunting. You keep taunting and taunting until the other kid slips up and says or does something stupid and gets himself in trouble. In this case you keep taunting until your opponent does something stupid and misplays giving you the edge to win a game, when you didn't actually have an edge to begin with.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
I find that I have a habit of shaking my leg during games. I have no idea what it means, and I don't find it annoying, nor do the other players... Unless the tables are a tad too short and we end up playing 400 card pickup... I know I do it in chess (fairly consciously) possibly to keep track of my tempo and time per move, or something like that, so it might be something similar to do.
I also fell victim to the hand shuffling thing. Mostly for randomizing my hand, due to specific reasons. I'm also viable to do whatever it takes to win in a competitve match as long as it doesn't get me an infraction.
@Card flicking: You're wrong, people don't do it to annoy their opponents. They do it to not give away information to the opponent regarding the content of the hand. If you draw a card from your deck and play it without shuffling your hand, your opponent will know that you drew that card. Secondly, it's just a habit. A lot of players are quite energetic (myself included), and have problems sitting completely still, and will shake their legs and flick cards.
Seriously, I've played against deaf guys who read the cards less often than some people I've played against.
Speaking as a deaf girl, I do wonder what being deaf has to with reading comprehension....
Anyway, I don't shuffle/flick constantly, but I do a little shuffle when I draw a card so its not obvious what card(s) I am playing. I don't want to give away if I am top decking.
@Card flicking: You're wrong, people don't do it to annoy their opponents. They do it to not give away information to the opponent regarding the content of the hand. If you draw a card from your deck and play it without shuffling your hand, your opponent will know that you drew that card. Secondly, it's just a habit. A lot of players are quite energetic (myself included), and have problems sitting completely still, and will shake their legs and flick cards.
To clarify, I'm referring to people who refuse to not do it if asked to stop. And more specifically to people who get angry about being asked to stop. If it's just out of habit that's one thing, and rearranging your cards in hand is another, doing it for your entire turn and after every single card you lay down, and during my entire turn is taking things a bit far.
I do know people who do it purely to annoy their opponents, one of which who is a terrible sport, curses at anyone who beats him, shows a complete disregard for other players, actively goes out of his way to insult people who don't build "t1" decks, and will all but throw a hissy fit if he doesn't get his way. Fortunately I only know of one person that's that bad.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
@Card flicking: You're wrong, people don't do it to annoy their opponents. They do it to not give away information to the opponent regarding the content of the hand.
I would personally probably refuse to stop doing it if asked (depending on my mood and the setting). Like I said, some of us actually have problems sitting completely still in their chair, and flicking cards is a good way to release nervous energy. It's also strategically correct to flick cards for the reason I stated. I've never heard about anyone who deliberately do it to piss others off, and I'm certainly not one of them.
To clarify, I'm referring to people who refuse to not do it if asked to stop. And more specifically to people who get angry about being asked to stop. If it's just out of habit that's one thing, and rearranging your cards in hand is another, doing it for your entire turn and after every single card you lay down, and during my entire turn is taking things a bit far.
I do know people who do it purely to annoy their opponents, one of which who is a terrible sport, curses at anyone who beats him, shows a complete disregard for other players, actively goes out of his way to insult people who don't build "t1" decks, and will all but throw a hissy fit if he doesn't get his way. Fortunately I only know of one person that's that bad.
I do it out of nervousness as well. You know what annoys me? People asking me to stop. Please don't harass me with those requests anymore or get angry when I don't comply. That's being a bit sarcastic, but in reality I've done it since Revised when I started playing. It's completely habit now. Expecting me to stop on command is like asking someone to stop tapping to the left. Besides, if you're my opponent you should be more concerned with what I have on the board, not if I'm flicking cards or not.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
I do it out of nervousness as well. You know what annoys me? People asking me to stop. Please don't harass me with those requests anymore or get angry when I don't comply. That's being a bit sarcastic, but in reality I've done it since Revised when I started playing. It's completely habit now. Expecting me to stop on command is like asking someone to stop tapping to the left. Besides, if you're my opponent you should be more concerned with what I have on the board, not if I'm flicking cards or not.
If it's a causal game I'll ask you to stop. If you don't not much to be done about it. If we're at a tournament and I ask you to stop because of it being annoying and you refuse to, I'll call a judge over and ask him/her to ask you to stop. If it's a constant thing of flicking your cards audibly then it's distracting, if it's distracting me from playing I'm well within my rights to request for you to stop, and to request for a judge to make the same request. I'm not saying anything against reorganizing the cards in your hand, it can be done silently with less effort than flicking them does.
And I'm not being as hardcore about as I can hear the sound of your cards' sleeves brushing against one another. Or you playing the card and it accidentally flicking against another in your hand. I'm talking about the loudly pronounced flicking that you actually have to be trying to do for it to happen. The kind where it serves no practical purpose to be that flashy about it except to create a distracting noise. Rearranging the cards in your hand is a good thing, and I won't say anything about it if you just drew and it wasn't dead silent, but if you're entering Main Phase 1 and I've heard your cards flicking loudly 20 times since you started your turn I'm a little bit less open to the "just sound strategy" and a little bit more open to the "he's just trying to be annoying" side of things.
Also I tap to the right personally. Though I've never really noticed a habit of tapping one way or the other amongst players. Might actually start paying attention to the direction people tap their cards in, and their playstyles to see if there's a correlation, or to their "I started playing" time frame.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
I find that I have a habit of shaking my leg during games. I have no idea what it means, and I don't find it annoying, nor do the other players... Unless the tables are a tad too short and we end up playing 400 card pickup... I know I do it in chess (fairly consciously) possibly to keep track of my tempo and time per move, or something like that, so it might be something similar to do.
I also fell victim to the hand shuffling thing. Mostly for randomizing my hand, due to specific reasons. I'm also viable to do whatever it takes to win in a competitve match as long as it doesn't get me an infraction.
I do the leg tap thing as more of a way to let off some steam (it's probably a tell now that I think about it), though I do it unconsciously. Doing it consciously is a bit... strange.
I also do the card shuffle thing as a nervous habit. Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me.
I'm pretty chill about the nervous tics of my opponent but someone in my playgroup bites his fingernails ans flicks them against his teeth and it bothers some of us to no end.
Edit: I'm not sure calling a judge because your opponent is annoying is legal. I guess it's legal to call him, but I don't think he would have any way in the rules to make you stop other than just asking nicely.
1. Players who place their mana in front of their creatures. I can't see that far away, man. Not even with my glasses on. Especially not when we're near a window and there's glare on your sleeves.
2. Are you done? Is it my go? Casting anything? Nothing? My turn? My go? My turn? Can you play faster, please? No. **** you. I'll take my damn time.
3. Those players that squeeze every last ounce of time out. There's a difference between taking your time making a decision . . . or taking 3min to declare blockers. At our store, the judge won't give infractions or anything for slow play, so I'm constantly waiting 3+ minutes in random scenarios, even where my opponent is tapped out, hand empty, what have you. It's a hard decision, I know. Just make it faster, for the love of god. I'm hungry. Or have to pee. Or something.
I get fairly annoyed when people mindlessly shuffle their hands at rapids speeds. I never say anything, but geeze man are you in a rush to finish the game? Another aggravating thing is when people arrange their side of the board so that you have trouble seeing what is going on. One one the worst things I've seen is people who rush through their turns, especially when that player does copious actions. I do like it when players calmly play with a moderate pace.
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Speaking of which it's insanely powerful in a 4player Un-game. Oh you just killed his BFM? I happen to have a Stop That in my *audible card flick* "Gotcha. I cast Stop That discard a card." *audible card flick* "Gotcha. Time to discard again." repeat till out of black mana.
Some older players seem to have the habit of arranging the cards in play so that the mana base is at the center of the table (closer to the opponent) while the creatures, enchantments, etc. are close to the player. It makes it really hard to see what the creatures are and their abilities. I can see that you have 6 mountains thanks, but I want/need to see the text on your creatures without having to pick them up all the time.
This is a popular technique to tilt your opponent.
I hate it when the guy sitting across from me has to read every single card 10 times. I'm sorry but if you can't remember what a card does for the length of a game, let alone a match, you need to stop playing competitve magic until you get better.
Seriously, I've played against deaf guys who read the cards less often than some people I've played against.
What exactly does this mean?
Some of the older players I've played with have a lack of social skills. It's amazing how much a card game means to some people. But really using anything outside the game to influence the game is just childish.
My Saffi deck
"tilt" is something you do to frustrate the other player into not thinking correctly, and making bad plays.
now that I know there's a reason for that I will refuse to play people who do it. It's just lame and immature. This isn't poker.
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This, incidentally. Visual distractions are one thing. Nasal ones are another.
The Card Flicking is about the most annoying thing.
Playing music on their cell phone is the most annoying thing I've run across.
"Really, I have to call a judge because you won't turn it off after I nicely asked you?"
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I'd suggest asking them to stop nicely. If they won't call a judge over and request the judge ask them to stop creating a very audible distraction in attempts to cause you to make bad plays with full intention of annoying and distracting you as you play. Especially if they respond with outright hostility to you politely asking them to stop.
http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/WPN/Main/Documents/Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules_PDF2.pdf
The underlined bit being the relevant part.
If I'm listening to music at all during a game it'll be with one earbud in or just one side of the headphones down and the other away from my free ear, and turned down relatively low. If I miss something cause of music it's on me and I won't say anything negative about it towards you.
Granted I only play against friends for now, but for 2-3 weeks straight we had to explain to a friend (who've played mtg longer than us) how infect works. He keeps insisting infect does the -1/-1 AND combat damage.
And yes, my friends play with their Mana on top part of the playmat and everything else at the bottom part. I keep asking them move your creatures up, don't care about your mana lol. (i'm RDW player so I don't really care haha)
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I'm happy to let almost anything go during a casual / FNM game, but in a tournament with hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on the line, everything means a lot more to me.
I don't understand how using outside influences (mind tricks?) is childish.
Because it shows your own lack of ability for one. You can't win on the merit of your knowledge, your skill, and your deck so you rely on what is effectively trying to make your opponent screw up by being annoying on purpose. That's really just poor sportsmanship.
But let's explore that a step further. By using an outside influence to win a game I could, by your assertion, arrange to have the store/event called with an "urgent" message about your car having been stolen. Or your house was broken into. Or you're loved ones got injured. All of these would be outside influences being used to cause you to either rush the game, misplay out of concern, or outright quit mid game. Are you saying all of these are ok? They're all outside influences and none of them specifically violate any thing in the rulebook except for being unsportsmanly conduct.
Let's take it a little less extreme then. Say you're in the final round and your opponent is doing really well. You start with your card flicking to try to mess him up. He nods to a friend who begins talking obnoxiously loud right behind you about other plays throughout the night and making sure to add in discussion of number of mana tapped and damage taken and life totals whenever you try to check any of those in your own game. He's now throwing you off your game by distracting you. It's outside of your game and not directed towards you but it is certainly an outside influence and it's likely having a direct effect on the game. He isn't breaking any rules he's just talking about some matches he's had. People do it constantly. He just happens to be right behind you and speaking loudly. If you say anything to him about distracting you then you become a hypocrite for attempting to do the exact same thing to your opponent, just not as loudly.
Or what if your opponent starts announcing everything he could do with the mana he has, and even things he could do if he had X. And spends your entire turn discussing verbally all the things he could have and could do to impede you. I don't know about you but when opponents do this to me it gets annoying quickly. They aren't actually breaking any rules, but they are being obnoxious. And if it causes you to rush and misplay then they capitalize on it and win? It's your fault for misplaying not theirs for distracting and agitating you until you misplayed.
Either way it's an influence outside of the cards in hand, on the board, and involved in the game and the players own knowledge and skill causing direct effects on the outcome of the game. Which would be termed as "outside influence".
It's childish for the fact that it basically boils down to school yard taunting. You keep taunting and taunting until the other kid slips up and says or does something stupid and gets himself in trouble. In this case you keep taunting until your opponent does something stupid and misplays giving you the edge to win a game, when you didn't actually have an edge to begin with.
I also fell victim to the hand shuffling thing. Mostly for randomizing my hand, due to specific reasons. I'm also viable to do whatever it takes to win in a competitve match as long as it doesn't get me an infraction.
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Speaking as a deaf girl, I do wonder what being deaf has to with reading comprehension....
Anyway, I don't shuffle/flick constantly, but I do a little shuffle when I draw a card so its not obvious what card(s) I am playing. I don't want to give away if I am top decking.
To clarify, I'm referring to people who refuse to not do it if asked to stop. And more specifically to people who get angry about being asked to stop. If it's just out of habit that's one thing, and rearranging your cards in hand is another, doing it for your entire turn and after every single card you lay down, and during my entire turn is taking things a bit far.
I do know people who do it purely to annoy their opponents, one of which who is a terrible sport, curses at anyone who beats him, shows a complete disregard for other players, actively goes out of his way to insult people who don't build "t1" decks, and will all but throw a hissy fit if he doesn't get his way. Fortunately I only know of one person that's that bad.
I think it's a bit of both.
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I do it out of nervousness as well. You know what annoys me? People asking me to stop. Please don't harass me with those requests anymore or get angry when I don't comply. That's being a bit sarcastic, but in reality I've done it since Revised when I started playing. It's completely habit now. Expecting me to stop on command is like asking someone to stop tapping to the left. Besides, if you're my opponent you should be more concerned with what I have on the board, not if I'm flicking cards or not.
If it's a causal game I'll ask you to stop. If you don't not much to be done about it. If we're at a tournament and I ask you to stop because of it being annoying and you refuse to, I'll call a judge over and ask him/her to ask you to stop. If it's a constant thing of flicking your cards audibly then it's distracting, if it's distracting me from playing I'm well within my rights to request for you to stop, and to request for a judge to make the same request. I'm not saying anything against reorganizing the cards in your hand, it can be done silently with less effort than flicking them does.
And I'm not being as hardcore about as I can hear the sound of your cards' sleeves brushing against one another. Or you playing the card and it accidentally flicking against another in your hand. I'm talking about the loudly pronounced flicking that you actually have to be trying to do for it to happen. The kind where it serves no practical purpose to be that flashy about it except to create a distracting noise. Rearranging the cards in your hand is a good thing, and I won't say anything about it if you just drew and it wasn't dead silent, but if you're entering Main Phase 1 and I've heard your cards flicking loudly 20 times since you started your turn I'm a little bit less open to the "just sound strategy" and a little bit more open to the "he's just trying to be annoying" side of things.
Also I tap to the right personally. Though I've never really noticed a habit of tapping one way or the other amongst players. Might actually start paying attention to the direction people tap their cards in, and their playstyles to see if there's a correlation, or to their "I started playing" time frame.
I do the leg tap thing as more of a way to let off some steam (it's probably a tell now that I think about it), though I do it unconsciously. Doing it consciously is a bit... strange.
I also do the card shuffle thing as a nervous habit. Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me.
I'm pretty chill about the nervous tics of my opponent but someone in my playgroup bites his fingernails ans flicks them against his teeth and it bothers some of us to no end.
Edit: I'm not sure calling a judge because your opponent is annoying is legal. I guess it's legal to call him, but I don't think he would have any way in the rules to make you stop other than just asking nicely.
2. Are you done? Is it my go? Casting anything? Nothing? My turn? My go? My turn? Can you play faster, please? No. **** you. I'll take my damn time.
3. Those players that squeeze every last ounce of time out. There's a difference between taking your time making a decision . . . or taking 3min to declare blockers. At our store, the judge won't give infractions or anything for slow play, so I'm constantly waiting 3+ minutes in random scenarios, even where my opponent is tapped out, hand empty, what have you. It's a hard decision, I know. Just make it faster, for the love of god. I'm hungry. Or have to pee. Or something.
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