We did it!!!!!!!! You did it! The new Modern Horizons set! Certainly more people were a part of this than I was. We all did our part and we have made the game better by voicing our concerns for the health of all of the formats. Standard, for as much as I have loathed it for the problems it has presented for so long, may become a better format itself due to this change. This will help Standard stand on its own, as I described a few years ago in the links below.
I did my part in getting WoTC to adopt a policy for printing format-bypassing cards, specifically eternal format cards that skip the loathsome Standard format.
August 13th 2017 is when I shared this idea, and at the time there was no (apparent) talk elsewhere on these forums about such a novel concept being applied beyond Commander. Format-bypassing cards directly into Eternal formats. I'm glad for all of us! This means everything for the future of Magic.
I brought it up again here too, and my estimation of the situation was essentially correct. Battlebond was the first step to getting where we are today. Congrats everyone, we ALL worked hard for this. YOU get to enjoy the results of that hard work now!
I imagine we'll see more cards like Nexus of Fate or True-Name Nemesis in the future, then. The problem is that the relatively limited nature of the cards in question means increases to price are magnified compared to cards from a regular expansion. It's a move that's interesting from a purely game design standpoint but is ultimately harmful given how the Magic market works.
I expect it's only a matter of time before "supplementary product" is the new "mythic rare" in terms of dumping grounds for cards that don't really deserve to be there other than not breaking Limited or stuffing the intended chase cards.
Wait, you're taking credit for the "idea" to print Modern-legal cards outside of Standard?
That has literally been in every Modern player's mind since the rule was announced that Modern cards must enter by way of Standard. Since the moment the format was announced.
Wait, you're taking credit for the "idea" to print Modern-legal cards outside of Standard?
That has literally been in every Modern player's mind since the rule was announced that Modern cards must enter by way of Standard. Since the moment the format was announced.
I did my part in getting WoTC to adopt a policy for printing format-bypassing cards
More than anything, I want to express my thanks to every person who was fighting for the expansion of format-bypassing cards.
I'm wanting to celebrate the moment, there's no intent for snobbery
If you were a voice online like I was, then thank you for your contributions too! I wouldn't mind hearing how other people did their part too. This is a cathartic moment for me... likely others too!
EDIT: also, I brought all of this up in the Commander forum, I honestly have never owned a Modern deck. I made those threads while unaware of any movement within the Modern community for the same goal, so to hear you confirm others were fighting the good fight makes me very happy
When I posted 2 years ago it was after an internal thought process not at all influenced from any already-existing movements for the same goal. It was parallel thought, from the perspective of an EDH, Legacy and Vintage player
I feel that this could provide a great way for them to experiment with new printinsg and reprinting old cards without the fear of how they will impact standard. Hopefully they also use this as a way to keep prices down as well.
no really, because of the demand that'll be there due to legacy/modern/edh players in bypassing standard, and the scarcity of these only appearing there... i mean we already see it with the plants in the commander precons, so this brings it up to a whole new scale by including modern
Its a good thing as they can print cards with an higher power level that would not work in standard.
But its also bad, as they produce cards that do not appeal for an entire portion of players (aka the standard people).
However, they already did this with the Commander product and that worked totally fine as the Commander people can play pretty much any card, especially in the casual crowd.
----
The usual problem for Modern is that they print like ~1 and maybe a handful of cards that could remotely do anything in modern per set, which is laughable low amount of cards that could potentially do something in modern and older formats.
Designing sets with that in mind is quite restricting, as rarely a card is good enough in all the formats its allowed in, and when it is, its so pushed to a power level that it messes with standard A LOT or appeals to a very very narrow special need of the format it wants to appeal to.
Also they can print cards without the need to connect it to a specific plane or story ; unless they still want to build a story around these sets (lets hope they dont).
So this turns into a set of cards that could also just be Commander decks, but with Booster packs.
I mean, they totally could simply not sell preconstructed Commander decks and slot the cards into a booster product and call it done ; thats most likely what they are doing anyway.
----
So yes i can see issues with this product, but i also like to see more cards that have a proper power level that is at least somewhat reasonable and not 99% crap cards that have no chance at all to see play outside of a draft deck.
The formats have always started with a new set in standard (type 2) and then been grandfathered into the other formats. This idea of "bypassing" the most popular and sought after format (standard)by new players and veteran players, and the format through which most tournaments are played is "idiotic" at best. Once they will see how many will actually buy these "modern" card sets they will go back to doing it the old way again.
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Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
I'll reserve judgement until I see how it's implemented. Personally, I'd much rather see this used in new "masters" sets that combine important reprints, new cards, and crucially for modern introducing certain older reprints into the format.
Certainly it would draw more interest in such supplemental booster based sets, as well as things like conspiracy and battlebond. I'm less than thrilled about such cards showing up in precons.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
It does confirm that Standard will forever be absolute arse-wipe, destined to be free of "unfun" experiences. The same vanilla draft experience scaled up into 60 cards.
Planeswalkers- tick
Creatures - tick, tick, tick
Landkill err, what now
Discard - err too unfun
Counterspells - fine- on turn 3
And the value of your cards? Congrats people, you just paid for me to go part time. Yes, you can enjoy paying for everyone else to enjoy Mtg at your expense. Enjoy your Mtg.
Personally, I'd much rather see this used in new "masters" sets that combine important reprints, new cards, and crucially for modern introducing certain older reprints into the format.
If they put Force of Will or Wasteland into Modern, I'd play that format more.
On one hand, hurray we can finally get a large surge of busted cards instead of being drip-fed. On the other hand, it is kind of sad that standard won't have these cards and it will just be another nail in the coffin, at least for me, on why I don't play that format.
The formats have always started with a new set in standard (type 2) and then been grandfathered into the other formats. This idea of "bypassing" the most popular and sought after format (standard)by new players and veteran players, and the format through which most tournaments are played is "idiotic" at best. Once they will see how many will actually buy these "modern" card sets they will go back to doing it the old way again.
.... Idiotic at best?
I'm intrigued. What makes you such an authority on the matter?
Your use of language presents the idea that modern is a minor distraction from standard and nobody really plays it, and nobody will really buy this product either. Is that how you feel?
Unfortunately, the reality of the matter is quite different. Standard is in a nice place right now (awesome in fact) but before this current period there was an extended time of what was widely considered to be sub-par standard formats. Standard events stopped firing, people looked elsewhere, and this was a likely contributor to:
Modern has been the most popular magic format over the last couple of years. Currently we're seeing an amazing boom of players into standard through Arena and into to this current excellent standard environment, but we're just a couple of months out of what has been a modern-dominated few years. Modern events attracted the most players, viewership of coverage was highest for modern events. Records were broken on both of these fronts, due to modern's popularity. Modern has been the way for the global community to play competitive mtg, until this year when Arena really started to take off and took back some of that share, as well as bringing in new players.
So I think it's fair to say that there is definite interest in Modern as a format. We shouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
And I don't think it's fair to call this new set 'idiotic' or suggest that it won't sell. Oh, it'll sell. You can quote me on that! It doesn't take much observation to see that there's a real demand and community interest in this sort of product.
I suggest having a re-think and a look at the wider landscape of the mtg community. Modern is the bedrock of many local competitive scenes around the world and continues to be a large part of paper magic. It might not be on arena (yet) but that doesn't mean people have forgotten it exists.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
For LGS stores the standard people are the most important as they buy packs and build lots of decks.
Any standard legal set is also modern legal.
A modern legal set that is not standard legal does indeed alienate a customer base, the promise is that there are enough people that will buy the modern only cards (which are fine for commander and the like too).
It can be done without an issue, as long as the set carries enough cards that people want to actually buy.
Even if there are no modern players at all in a region, the set still will sell simply because people want the "stronger" cards if they play casually anyway and/or Commander decks (which you can bet hard on that they will ensure Commander people will find a good selection of cards that are simply good for everything).
----
Its still more of a gamble, as all this set does, a standard set would do better, simply for the reason that a standard set is actually standard legal, which this is not.
All the potential bonus banks on that the cards are simply better than the ones from a standard set ; in which case this product will deal some side-damage to standard sets.
At least 1 set each year is like that now, they produce some special cards that are not standard legal, so far these sets turned out to be overall good for value, and especially for the foils to pimp some commander decks.
I did my part in getting WoTC to adopt a policy for printing format-bypassing cards, specifically eternal format cards that skip the loathsome Standard format.
August 13th 2017 is when I shared this idea, and at the time there was no (apparent) talk elsewhere on these forums about such a novel concept being applied beyond Commander. Format-bypassing cards directly into Eternal formats. I'm glad for all of us! This means everything for the future of Magic.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/781415-the-rule-of-56-originals-in-commander-is-a
I brought it up again here too, and my estimation of the situation was essentially correct. Battlebond was the first step to getting where we are today. Congrats everyone, we ALL worked hard for this. YOU get to enjoy the results of that hard work now!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/789425-wotc-breaks-its-56-card-shackles-for-commander
More than anything, I want to express my thanks to every person who was fighting for the expansion of format-bypassing cards.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
I expect it's only a matter of time before "supplementary product" is the new "mythic rare" in terms of dumping grounds for cards that don't really deserve to be there other than not breaking Limited or stuffing the intended chase cards.
That has literally been in every Modern player's mind since the rule was announced that Modern cards must enter by way of Standard. Since the moment the format was announced.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I'm wanting to celebrate the moment, there's no intent for snobbery
If you were a voice online like I was, then thank you for your contributions too! I wouldn't mind hearing how other people did their part too. This is a cathartic moment for me... likely others too!
EDIT: also, I brought all of this up in the Commander forum, I honestly have never owned a Modern deck. I made those threads while unaware of any movement within the Modern community for the same goal, so to hear you confirm others were fighting the good fight makes me very happy
When I posted 2 years ago it was after an internal thought process not at all influenced from any already-existing movements for the same goal. It was parallel thought, from the perspective of an EDH, Legacy and Vintage player
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
no really, because of the demand that'll be there due to legacy/modern/edh players in bypassing standard, and the scarcity of these only appearing there... i mean we already see it with the plants in the commander precons, so this brings it up to a whole new scale by including modern
But its also bad, as they produce cards that do not appeal for an entire portion of players (aka the standard people).
However, they already did this with the Commander product and that worked totally fine as the Commander people can play pretty much any card, especially in the casual crowd.
----
The usual problem for Modern is that they print like ~1 and maybe a handful of cards that could remotely do anything in modern per set, which is laughable low amount of cards that could potentially do something in modern and older formats.
Designing sets with that in mind is quite restricting, as rarely a card is good enough in all the formats its allowed in, and when it is, its so pushed to a power level that it messes with standard A LOT or appeals to a very very narrow special need of the format it wants to appeal to.
Also they can print cards without the need to connect it to a specific plane or story ; unless they still want to build a story around these sets (lets hope they dont).
So this turns into a set of cards that could also just be Commander decks, but with Booster packs.
I mean, they totally could simply not sell preconstructed Commander decks and slot the cards into a booster product and call it done ; thats most likely what they are doing anyway.
----
So yes i can see issues with this product, but i also like to see more cards that have a proper power level that is at least somewhat reasonable and not 99% crap cards that have no chance at all to see play outside of a draft deck.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
Certainly it would draw more interest in such supplemental booster based sets, as well as things like conspiracy and battlebond. I'm less than thrilled about such cards showing up in precons.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Planeswalkers- tick
Creatures - tick, tick, tick
Landkill err, what now
Discard - err too unfun
Counterspells - fine- on turn 3
And the value of your cards? Congrats people, you just paid for me to go part time. Yes, you can enjoy paying for everyone else to enjoy Mtg at your expense. Enjoy your Mtg.
If they put Force of Will or Wasteland into Modern, I'd play that format more.
.... Idiotic at best?
I'm intrigued. What makes you such an authority on the matter?
Your use of language presents the idea that modern is a minor distraction from standard and nobody really plays it, and nobody will really buy this product either. Is that how you feel?
Unfortunately, the reality of the matter is quite different. Standard is in a nice place right now (awesome in fact) but before this current period there was an extended time of what was widely considered to be sub-par standard formats. Standard events stopped firing, people looked elsewhere, and this was a likely contributor to:
Modern has been the most popular magic format over the last couple of years. Currently we're seeing an amazing boom of players into standard through Arena and into to this current excellent standard environment, but we're just a couple of months out of what has been a modern-dominated few years. Modern events attracted the most players, viewership of coverage was highest for modern events. Records were broken on both of these fronts, due to modern's popularity. Modern has been the way for the global community to play competitive mtg, until this year when Arena really started to take off and took back some of that share, as well as bringing in new players.
So I think it's fair to say that there is definite interest in Modern as a format. We shouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
And I don't think it's fair to call this new set 'idiotic' or suggest that it won't sell. Oh, it'll sell. You can quote me on that! It doesn't take much observation to see that there's a real demand and community interest in this sort of product.
I suggest having a re-think and a look at the wider landscape of the mtg community. Modern is the bedrock of many local competitive scenes around the world and continues to be a large part of paper magic. It might not be on arena (yet) but that doesn't mean people have forgotten it exists.
Any standard legal set is also modern legal.
A modern legal set that is not standard legal does indeed alienate a customer base, the promise is that there are enough people that will buy the modern only cards (which are fine for commander and the like too).
It can be done without an issue, as long as the set carries enough cards that people want to actually buy.
Even if there are no modern players at all in a region, the set still will sell simply because people want the "stronger" cards if they play casually anyway and/or Commander decks (which you can bet hard on that they will ensure Commander people will find a good selection of cards that are simply good for everything).
----
Its still more of a gamble, as all this set does, a standard set would do better, simply for the reason that a standard set is actually standard legal, which this is not.
All the potential bonus banks on that the cards are simply better than the ones from a standard set ; in which case this product will deal some side-damage to standard sets.
At least 1 set each year is like that now, they produce some special cards that are not standard legal, so far these sets turned out to be overall good for value, and especially for the foils to pimp some commander decks.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮