Whelming Wave. Does anyone else see this being the new Supreme Verdict after rotation? My girlfriend thinks I'm crazy, and not a lot of other people have bought into it either. Am I just delusional? Right now it seems pretty solid.
No. Bouncing cards is not the same as removal. It's actually card disadvantage. Your losing one card while your opponents lost no cards. Card advantage by the way is cards in hand + cards in play. Supreme actually removes the threats from play/hand. Whelming will just cause a delay.
I guess that's true. However, I'm thinking of using it in a Bant control deck, under the impression I could be able to control big threats that come out later. I dunno. I'm probably going to playtest it and find it's crap.
Not really, no. It'd be worse than a wrath effect, because you don't even get the option of paying life to stop the creatures going back to their hand.
And if you're playing white, you have so many tools to remove gods, that the occasional situation where you get to bounce him as well is not so important that you want to gimp yourself in other departments.
1) Token decks are popular
2) They print some constructed playable krakens/serpents/whatever (more than one or two)
3) You can abuse it with ETB triggers
unfortunately right now none of those things apply
I don't think this is the worst card and might have a place in decks in the future. Whelming Wave+Mnemonic Wall is a decent combo, I've locked games out with it before, casually of course.
Chastity: "I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever be just whelmed?"
Bianca: "I think you can in Europe."
- Ten Things I Hate About You
And the card is abysmal to be honest, but refer to the quote for clarification. It's a good theme deck card.
Chastity: "I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever be just whelmed?"
Bianca: "I think you can in Europe."
- Ten Things I Hate About You
And the card is abysmal to be honest, but refer to the quote for clarification. It's a good theme deck card.
I wouldn't call it abysmal just like that. It has its uses, it can definitely be used to regain some tempo/momentum, but a Verdict replacement it is not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
If standard had some decent ETB triggers (ie: coiling oracle) and cards worth ramping into(ie: simic sky swallower) this card might actually be viable.
Unfortunately that's not the case, so it's marginal edh fodder at best.
Alas, I still love the flavor...
Sea Monsters Of The Megaverse Unite!
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
I guess that's true. However, I'm thinking of using it in a Bant control deck, under the impression I could be able to control big threats that come out later. I dunno. I'm probably going to playtest it and find it's crap.
Would be awesomesauce against Athreos, though.
How is it better than Supreme Verdict against Atheros? You could bounce everything if you wanted to with Verdict, too, but you don't have the option of paying life to kill something for good.
I guess that's true. However, I'm thinking of using it in a Bant control deck, under the impression I could be able to control big threats that come out later. I dunno. I'm probably going to playtest it and find it's crap.
Would be awesomesauce against Athreos, though.
How is it better than Supreme Verdict against Atheros? You could bounce everything if you wanted to with Verdict, too, but you don't have the option of paying life to kill something for good.
I guess I see it as awesomesauce against Athreos because I figure Athreos is going to lead to either mono-black decks into B/W decks, or B/W decks will shoot up in popularity as decks of those color tend to do when spiffy new cards are waiting to be overplayed. Paying 3 life per creature to cause it to stay in the graveyard sucks dude, especially when on their T4 you should expect them to drop a Whip of Erebos. Btdubs, good luck Hero's Downfall or Dark Betrayal-ing the T5 Obzedat and then paying 3 life on top of the 2 you took when he hit the batlefield. On T6, Whip will throw him back out and the process repeats until you kill yourself.
Plus, the Wave will bounce the gods, so it's one more way to get a chance to counter them if you couldn't the first time. Gods suck.
Paying 3 life per creature to cause it to stay in the graveyard sucks dude
Even if that were true, Whelming Wave would still be worse than Verdict because Verdict can also just bounce everything to their hand without paying any life.
Anyway, in response to your original question, you probably are just being delusional. Think of it this way: would Supreme Verdict be good if every time you used it the opponent got to draw a card for every creature you destroyed? That's pretty much how Whelming Wave stacks up to Verdict, except it's even worse because the cards they get are guaranteed to be non-lands.
Whelming Wave is also embarrassingly bad against Haste. Now, by rotation we'll be rid of cards like Ash Zealot and possibly Chandra's Phoenix (Phoenix might get reprinted in M15), but Supreme Verdict happens to be one of U/W's only answers to Stormbreath Dragon, and Whelming the dragon won't accomplish anything unless you have enough land on the table to Whelm with a counter up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Would be awesomesauce against Athreos, though.
Not really, no. It'd be worse than a wrath effect, because you don't even get the option of paying life to stop the creatures going back to their hand.
And if you're playing white, you have so many tools to remove gods, that the occasional situation where you get to bounce him as well is not so important that you want to gimp yourself in other departments.
1) Token decks are popular
2) They print some constructed playable krakens/serpents/whatever (more than one or two)
3) You can abuse it with ETB triggers
unfortunately right now none of those things apply
Bianca: "I think you can in Europe."
- Ten Things I Hate About You
And the card is abysmal to be honest, but refer to the quote for clarification. It's a good theme deck card.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
I wouldn't call it abysmal just like that. It has its uses, it can definitely be used to regain some tempo/momentum, but a Verdict replacement it is not.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Unfortunately that's not the case, so it's marginal edh fodder at best.
Alas, I still love the flavor...
Sea Monsters Of The Megaverse Unite!
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
How is it better than Supreme Verdict against Atheros? You could bounce everything if you wanted to with Verdict, too, but you don't have the option of paying life to kill something for good.
I guess I see it as awesomesauce against Athreos because I figure Athreos is going to lead to either mono-black decks into B/W decks, or B/W decks will shoot up in popularity as decks of those color tend to do when spiffy new cards are waiting to be overplayed. Paying 3 life per creature to cause it to stay in the graveyard sucks dude, especially when on their T4 you should expect them to drop a Whip of Erebos. Btdubs, good luck Hero's Downfall or Dark Betrayal-ing the T5 Obzedat and then paying 3 life on top of the 2 you took when he hit the batlefield. On T6, Whip will throw him back out and the process repeats until you kill yourself.
Plus, the Wave will bounce the gods, so it's one more way to get a chance to counter them if you couldn't the first time. Gods suck.
Even if that were true, Whelming Wave would still be worse than Verdict because Verdict can also just bounce everything to their hand without paying any life.
Anyway, in response to your original question, you probably are just being delusional. Think of it this way: would Supreme Verdict be good if every time you used it the opponent got to draw a card for every creature you destroyed? That's pretty much how Whelming Wave stacks up to Verdict, except it's even worse because the cards they get are guaranteed to be non-lands.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion Combo
GUEzuri, Claw of progress Morph
GUBSidisi, Brood tyrant
RWGisela, Blade of Goldnight Random red white cards i dont use.dec
GBLoam Pox
Modern
UBFaeries
GBWGoyfless Abzan
On Squirrels
On Risen Executioner