Altar of the Brood one of my favorite cards. I started playing magic in 2017 again after stopping in 2004 because the usual, someone stole all my cards. I played an elf, squirrel tokens. When i started playing again i picked up saproling tokens because i found Mycoloth. My modern deck has 4 of them with helm of the host and its soon to be 3 because i am including Bloodspore thrinax.
To the point in my modern deck i use 4 Altar of the Brood. I found this digging around and it has worked wonders in my Token deck. It has won 1v1s and 4v4. The most this card has managed to mill people for was in a 4v4 and everyone had to mill 160 cards at once. There were 2 44/44 Mycoloth and a Parallel lives on the field. They were not happy. The group allowed me to use my modern deck since they all wanted to play commander and i do not have one as of this moment.
What are other opinions, combos, or questions on this card?
2) Use a persist creature like Kitchen Finks, a "free" sac outlet like Viscera Seer, and a means to get rid of the -1/-1 counter like Solemnity. Works with undying creatures, too.
You could run Undead Alchemist and get a zombie token and thus another mill for every creature card your opponents mill. With enough opponents and them playing lots of creature cards, and/or multiples of the Altar and Alchemist, this can get out of hand fast.
If 4 Altars are not enough, Hair-Strung Koto, though costing much more mana, can be additional copies, if your entering permanents are creatures. Just tap them for the mill before you continue the loop.
Those are great combos. I know about the midnight guard+presence of gond never had a deck to use it in, but now that you reminded me i am making a commander deck with Ghave, guru of spores that will be perfect. Thank you
I was really hyped when it first came out, because I had two decks, where it would fit quite well. One is a commander deck I'm still tinkering with, but it shifted in a slightly different direction for the mill and cannot get the full potential anymore. The other uses the Undead Alchemist as well as the triple Fiend Hunter loop (should have mentioned that one in my above post, too), but that deck is very finely tuned and getting the Altar in is quite problematic. Plus again, not really needed, the deck works fine without it.
(To explain the Fiend Hunter loop: you can make a loop of three Hunters exiling and returning each other over and over. You can even substitute one Hunter with a Restoration Angel for the same effect, though the loop works slightly differently then. This loop is nice bacause the pieces are very useful on their own, the loop is just a bonus.)
I've seen the Altar used for a variety of infinite and non-infinite combos in my Commander days. The problem is that there's no way to go two-card-infinite with it; Undead Alchemist (wisely) is designed to only make tokens on creature cards that are milled, meaning hitting a noncreature with the loop stops the loop. Nevertheless, it's still a 1 enabler for combos that can mill many cards and hence is a strong card where these combos are viable.
would mycoloth and altar of the brood be a 2 card combo? Depending on the amount of creatures you devour it can mill everyone at once, or is that not technically 2 card since you have to devour?... Just realized it's not actually an infinite combo just a win.
I hope you have a means to break the loop, otherwise this is a draw, not a win. Players don't lose for having an empty library, they lose for trying to draw a card from one.
My commander is Ghave, Guru of Spores Ill post my decklist maybe you might have some input. Also other people will want to stop the combo.
Or they choose the draw over losing. No one is required to break the loop even if they can. Only if a choice involved in the loop would offer a way to stop the loop must it be broken at some point. Ghave doesn't offer a means to stop the loop. (edit: brainfart on my part) And if another player does have a stop for the combo, they will likely do so right away and you don't get more than a single mill out of it.
Altar of the Brood also combos really well with Oona, Queen of the Fae for UB Milling decks. I like that it triggers off of every permanent I put into play and that it affects all opponents at once making it good in multiplayer.
With Ghave, guru of spores you can sac sporemound and stop it right? I also have 4 or 5 cards to stop it that was just one example. That does raise a question i had never gotten an answer to... if i play Life and limb+Sporemound and no one counters or destroys it before i lay a land.... how many times can i use it before someone destroys the combo? I know that you are allowed in some cases to say i use this 100 times and then do something to stop the combo.
If you control Life and Limb and Sporemound and a Forest enters the battlefield under your control by any means, the game ends in a draw unless someone can make either of those cards leave the battlefield, because it's a non-optional loop. Note that Sporemound says "put" and not "you may put" - you HAVE to do the action, there's no declining.
Im aware that it has to be stopped, and its not a choice. My question is before i stop it or anyone else for that matter. How many times does it tick before its stopped by someone?
Depends on what that player wants. If its your own combo usually you would do it a billion times or so then stop the combo. An opponent would stop it after the first token is made most likely.
That's really a question that has no answer. If no one can interrupt the infinite loop the game just ends. The loop isn't required to iterate a certain number of times to cause a draw, it just has to begin. If you set this in motion there are basically three options:
1) No one can stop the nonoptional sequence and there's a draw.
2) An opponent of yours can stop the nonoptional sequence and most likely will do so immediately by removing one or both of the combo pieces from the battlefield in response to the first instance of the triggered ability, resulting in one token being created and the game proceeding.
3) You can stop the nonoptional sequence and do so after some arbitrarily large number of tokens - let's say twenty billion and eight - have been created, most likely through use of a shortcut. If all goes well you will probably win the game during the combat phase of the first turn in which your tokens can attack, which is probably your next turn.
In Commander, without an infinite combo, it will usually just help the graveyard decks at the table, so it's a bad play. With an infinite combo, it's no more impressive than any other, and gets stopped by cards that get run often in the format; one of the players I play with regularly runs it in his Sharuum deck, and one of his wincons is looping Sharuum with a copy of Sharuum to trigger Altar an arbitrary number of times, but a single Ulamog 1.0 or Kozilek 1.0 in your deck makes that combo useless. A Blue or White Sun's Zenith in your hand will also prevent a loss to infinite mill, among other things.
Two Felidar Guardians also create a loop that triggers the altar. As does liquimetal coating + saheeli rai (which combo's also nice with Felidar Guardian, so quite a few synergies!)
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To the point in my modern deck i use 4 Altar of the Brood. I found this digging around and it has worked wonders in my Token deck. It has won 1v1s and 4v4. The most this card has managed to mill people for was in a 4v4 and everyone had to mill 160 cards at once. There were 2 44/44 Mycoloth and a Parallel lives on the field. They were not happy. The group allowed me to use my modern deck since they all wanted to play commander and i do not have one as of this moment.
What are other opinions, combos, or questions on this card?
1) Deadeye Navigator + Morselhoarder/Prosperous Pirates
2) Use a persist creature like Kitchen Finks, a "free" sac outlet like Viscera Seer, and a means to get rid of the -1/-1 counter like Solemnity. Works with undying creatures, too.
3) the simple loop of Midnight Guard + Presence of Gond doesn't really need the Altar, but can make it go infinite.
You could run Undead Alchemist and get a zombie token and thus another mill for every creature card your opponents mill. With enough opponents and them playing lots of creature cards, and/or multiples of the Altar and Alchemist, this can get out of hand fast.
If 4 Altars are not enough, Hair-Strung Koto, though costing much more mana, can be additional copies, if your entering permanents are creatures. Just tap them for the mill before you continue the loop.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
What is your personal opinion about the card Altar of the Brood?
(To explain the Fiend Hunter loop: you can make a loop of three Hunters exiling and returning each other over and over. You can even substitute one Hunter with a Restoration Angel for the same effect, though the loop works slightly differently then. This loop is nice bacause the pieces are very useful on their own, the loop is just a bonus.)
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I hope you have a means to break the loop, otherwise this is a draw, not a win. Players don't lose for having an empty library, they lose for trying to draw a card from one.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
1 Ghave, Guru of Spores
Creature (24)
1 Fertilid
1 Protean Hydra
1 Primordial Hydra
1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Heroes' Bane
1 Genesis Hydra
1 Lifeblood Hydra
1 Hungering Hydra
1 Psychotrope Thallid
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Managorger Hydra
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Bloodspore Thrinax
1 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
1 Brawn
1 Sporemound
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Mycoloth
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Corpsejack Menace
1 Ivorytusk Fortress
1 Vigor
1 Life and Limb
1 Abundance
1 Aura Shards
1 Parallel Lives
1 Triumph of Ferocity
1 Awakening Zone
1 Doubling Season
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Deathreap Ritual
1 Cryptolith Rite
1 Cathars' Crusade
1 Black Market
1 Myth Unbound
Land (34)
8 Swamp
11 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Reliquary Tower
8 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Opal Palace
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Cabal Stronghold
Artifact (9)
1 Altar of the Brood
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Tamiyo's Journal
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Planar Bridge
1 Mindcrank
1 Skullclamp
1 Helm of the Host
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Putrefy
1 Spoils of Blood
1 Aura Mutation
1 Mortify
Sorcery (15)
1 Armageddon
1 Scouting Trek
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Parallel Evolution
1 Collective Voyage
1 Harmonize
1 Hour of Reckoning
1 Cultivate
1 Fungal Sprouting
1 Jarad's Orders
1 Tempt with Discovery
1 Animist's Awakening
1 Vindicate
1 Genesis Wave
1 Regrowth
Sorry i sent the wrong list at first
Or they choose the draw over losing. No one is required to break the loop even if they can. Only if a choice involved in the loop would offer a way to stop the loop must it be broken at some point.
Ghave doesn't offer a means to stop the loop.(edit: brainfart on my part) And if another player does have a stop for the combo, they will likely do so right away and you don't get more than a single mill out of it.Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
1) No one can stop the nonoptional sequence and there's a draw.
2) An opponent of yours can stop the nonoptional sequence and most likely will do so immediately by removing one or both of the combo pieces from the battlefield in response to the first instance of the triggered ability, resulting in one token being created and the game proceeding.
3) You can stop the nonoptional sequence and do so after some arbitrarily large number of tokens - let's say twenty billion and eight - have been created, most likely through use of a shortcut. If all goes well you will probably win the game during the combat phase of the first turn in which your tokens can attack, which is probably your next turn.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)