If Urza were a Planeswalker in Magic now-a-days what color(s) would he be?
I say he'd be Blue, Red, White.
Blue because he's an artificer
Red because he's obviously an angry and revenge seeking person.
White because I think despite being a vengeful person he is a generally heroic and anti-evil sort of person. (maybe I'm wrong, but Sunglasses of Urza also shift's me in this direction too :P)
Edit: Accidentally placed this in the wrong forum, sorry. Please move it for me mods if you don't mind.
white isn't anti-evil... white can be the most evil.... it's just that white is self righteous enough to think that it's unquestionably doing the right thing - religious zealots (i.e. terrorists IRL) are white in magic.
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white isn't anti-evil... white can be the most evil.... it's just that white is self righteous enough to think that it's unquestionably doing the right thing - religious zealots (i.e. terrorists IRL) are white in magic.
Well, Yeah I think some of the new Phyrexia cards can attest to that. That's also kind of my point though. Urza probably considers himself to be a super righteous person because he is fighting against the evils of Old Phyrexia, despite the fact that he's probably only doing it as an act of revenge for them corrupting Mishra.
In the books Serra states that Urza's core colour is white, even though he mainly fiddles with blue-related things. He definitely has some red in there too, so UWR, in that order.
Why not have our first 4 color walker? I mean, you know to truly represent urza in walker form, he needs to be as much as I hate it, a transform card, give him insane abilites on each side with loyality changers that flip him at your choice.
Urza has character revelations, not physical transformations.
He's definitely Blue (All focused on the goal), White (Zealously and dogmatically focused on "the greater good" above individual issues), and Red (His emotional instability and outbursts, especially over Rat, Xancha, and Mishra).
Pre-walker Urza would probably just be Blue and White.
Given that he was blue in Invasion (Blind Seer), I think that he sould be a mono-blue planeswalker with some nice artifact abilities, like Tezzeret, the Seeker.
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
I can imagine him UWR, expensive (maybe 5 or 6 CMC) and having kinda 4 or 5 abilities...
I find it utterly ridiculous that you consider 5 or 6 CMC to be both "expensive" and an adequate cost for the most powerful Planeswalker the Multiverse has ever known. Nicol Bolas costs...what, eight? Well, his power pales in comparison to Urza's.
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
I find it utterly ridiculous that you consider 5 or 6 CMC to be both "expensive" and an adequate cost for the most powerful Planeswalker the Multiverse has ever known. Nicol Bolas costs...what, eight? Well, his power pales in comparison to Urza's.
Pales? I wouldn't say 'pales'. Urza and Bolas never really came into direct conflict or were even active during the same time, so it's hard to say who was definitively stronger. Urza himself was probably weaker than Bolas (at the height of each of their respective powers), though if he was in one of Titan engines or had more artifacts assisting him, it'd be more up in the air. Bolas being an Elder Dragon definitely gets him points though.
On topic, Urza would probably be WURB, in terms of personality.
Pales? I wouldn't say 'pales'. Urza and Bolas never really came into direct conflict or were even active during the same time, so it's hard to say who was definitively stronger. Urza himself was probably weaker than Bolas (at the height of each of their respective powers), though if he was in one of Titan engines or had more artifacts assisting him, it'd be more up in the air. Bolas being an Elder Dragon definitely gets him points though.
On topic, Urza would probably be WURB, in terms of personality.
I don't see how he's particularly Black in most of his appearances. Urza is incredibly self-destructive, and he doesn't really have personal gain as any of his objectives. His methods are mostly Blue (Artifice), White (Organization), and Red (KERBLAM!). He does give in near the end of his life, but that was kinda a special case of corruption by Yawgmoth.
He's definitely not Green, though; Argoth can attest to that.
i think he should definitely have black in him.
the man stopped at absolutely nothing in his quest to destroy phyrexia. he even goes on to talk about how everything is just a pawn. blind ambition at any cost is very much black. yeah, he sought to destroy phyrexia, but only for what they did to his brother.
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
i think he should definitely have black in him.
the man stopped at absolutely nothing in his quest to destroy phyrexia. he even goes on to talk about how everything is just a pawn. blind ambition at any cost is very much black. yeah, he sought to destroy phyrexia, but only for what they did to his brother.
His vengeance is the reason he's Red, not Black. Urza has nothing to gain from using his powers the way he's used them. He is so focused on his anger of Phyrexia that he never enjoys himself. When he thinks of his goals, he thinks of either avenging Mishra, killing Phyrexia, or saving Dominaria. None of those are particularly Black goals.
Urza is willing to do nearly anything to achieve his goals, but that's not exclusively a Black goal; see White's "greater good" or Blue's goal-oriented nature.
Ever since a Mishra card was released in grixis colors, I've thought of Urza as esper colors (even though we didn't have the esper name yet).
Urza is way too machine-like to be red. Red is passionate and impulsive! That is not Urza...
I've read every novel with him and he was always described as detached and emotionless by all the supporting characters. It was his biggest fault.
Everything and everyone was a resource or a pawn. He wanted to acheive his goals and didn't care who it hurt.
When he actually reached Phyrexia, he loved it! He was 100% esper-colored.
This article from 'savor the flavor' explains nicely how black, white blue distort each others principals to make a near-perfect description of Urza.
White: Blue and black make white's themes of order come to the forefront more than its themes of community. White in this context contributes hierarchy, command, and law, bringing the other two colors out of their solipsistic / narcissistic shells and into the realm of society. It adds a theme of striving for enlightenment and perfection to the other colors, a kind of personal virtue filtered through the lens of the other two colors' ethoi. (Er, whatever the plural of ethos is. Belief systems.)
Black: Blue and white bring black's ambition to a grandiose level. They turn black's power-lust into a sort of progress-lust, a need for the self to accomplish at the expense of everything else, rather than to rule at the expense of everything else. Of course, there's a healthy dose of ruling-desire still lurking in Esper. Black's ruthlessness has helped push Esper to the logical conclusion of its quest for progress: utter domination of the natural world.
Blue: White and black pull blue in interesting directions here. Thanks to black, blue gets pulled in the anything-goes direction, the willingness to do whatever it takes to accomplish its intellectual goals, including the willingness to change everything about its external environment to achieve its own desires. Thanks to white, blue gets pulled in a public-focused direction, focusing its thirst for progress into a journey for abstract perfection. In a way, white provides the motivation here—perfection—and black provides the means—whatever it takes.
They contrast with the wild independence and impulse-driven instinct of red and green. In fact, wildness and instinct are Esper's greatest threats, and form the greatest reason for its need of control.
I could see him being U/W/R/b. He's not green in any way, but some of his decisions were pretty heartless and cold (I guess you could make a case that this is blue) but I see a little black in him, even though, he's ultimately the protagonist.
But yeah, we can all agree that he's not green. Other than that, though...
Um... doesn't a version of Yavimaya Elder depict Urza?
(not that I'm arguing Urza should be green; just saying his image has appeared on a green card)
On a similar note, Lim-Dul the Necromancer (not a planeswalker, but a powerful character) was depicted as a legendary all-black card... but has several minions on multicoloured cards including blue and red (i.e. UB and BR multicoloured cards). I think Urza could be depicted on a UW card, despite having some R characteristics. Heck, Jace, Memory Adept's second ability is Glimpse the Unthinkable (UB), and yet Jace is mono-blue.
I say he'd be Blue, Red, White.
Blue because he's an artificer
Red because he's obviously an angry and revenge seeking person.
White because I think despite being a vengeful person he is a generally heroic and anti-evil sort of person. (maybe I'm wrong, but Sunglasses of Urza also shift's me in this direction too :P)
Edit: Accidentally placed this in the wrong forum, sorry. Please move it for me mods if you don't mind.
white isn't anti-evil... white can be the most evil.... it's just that white is self righteous enough to think that it's unquestionably doing the right thing - religious zealots (i.e. terrorists IRL) are white in magic.
Legacy Decks:
Legendary Maverick GW
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Fetchland: Arid Mesa
Shockland: Watery Grave
M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
This is especially true for Urza's Rage
Well, Yeah I think some of the new Phyrexia cards can attest to that. That's also kind of my point though. Urza probably considers himself to be a super righteous person because he is fighting against the evils of Old Phyrexia, despite the fact that he's probably only doing it as an act of revenge for them corrupting Mishra.
I had not thought about comparing him to Mishra's actual card that is neat though.
He's definitely Blue (All focused on the goal), White (Zealously and dogmatically focused on "the greater good" above individual issues), and Red (His emotional instability and outbursts, especially over Rat, Xancha, and Mishra).
Pre-walker Urza would probably just be Blue and White.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
sigh
I miss Urza. I wish his still-alive head was still floating around somewhere. Maybe we need "Mishra's Revenge" or something for a set.
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definitely mono blue
Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
BR RkDW-Aggro | UBR Cruel Grixis-Control
Legacy:
WW Soldier Tribal-Aggro| WW Stax-Control
Modern:
RW Artifact Boros-Aggro | GB The Rock-Midrange
I find it utterly ridiculous that you consider 5 or 6 CMC to be both "expensive" and an adequate cost for the most powerful Planeswalker the Multiverse has ever known. Nicol Bolas costs...what, eight? Well, his power pales in comparison to Urza's.
Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
Pales? I wouldn't say 'pales'. Urza and Bolas never really came into direct conflict or were even active during the same time, so it's hard to say who was definitively stronger. Urza himself was probably weaker than Bolas (at the height of each of their respective powers), though if he was in one of Titan engines or had more artifacts assisting him, it'd be more up in the air. Bolas being an Elder Dragon definitely gets him points though.
On topic, Urza would probably be WURB, in terms of personality.
I don't see how he's particularly Black in most of his appearances. Urza is incredibly self-destructive, and he doesn't really have personal gain as any of his objectives. His methods are mostly Blue (Artifice), White (Organization), and Red (KERBLAM!). He does give in near the end of his life, but that was kinda a special case of corruption by Yawgmoth.
He's definitely not Green, though; Argoth can attest to that.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
Technically that's simply wrong. Phyrexian Arena and Warped Devotion, for instance
the man stopped at absolutely nothing in his quest to destroy phyrexia. he even goes on to talk about how everything is just a pawn. blind ambition at any cost is very much black. yeah, he sought to destroy phyrexia, but only for what they did to his brother.
But yeah, we can all agree that he's not green. Other than that, though...
Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
His vengeance is the reason he's Red, not Black. Urza has nothing to gain from using his powers the way he's used them. He is so focused on his anger of Phyrexia that he never enjoys himself. When he thinks of his goals, he thinks of either avenging Mishra, killing Phyrexia, or saving Dominaria. None of those are particularly Black goals.
Urza is willing to do nearly anything to achieve his goals, but that's not exclusively a Black goal; see White's "greater good" or Blue's goal-oriented nature.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
Gerrard Capashen is mono-White. However his Command is Green, his Verdict is Black, his Lunge is Red and his Jilting of (fake) Hanna was Blue.
Urza is way too machine-like to be red. Red is passionate and impulsive! That is not Urza...
I've read every novel with him and he was always described as detached and emotionless by all the supporting characters. It was his biggest fault.
Everything and everyone was a resource or a pawn. He wanted to acheive his goals and didn't care who it hurt.
When he actually reached Phyrexia, he loved it! He was 100% esper-colored.
This article from 'savor the flavor' explains nicely how black, white blue distort each others principals to make a near-perfect description of Urza.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ESPER:
White: Blue and black make white's themes of order come to the forefront more than its themes of community. White in this context contributes hierarchy, command, and law, bringing the other two colors out of their solipsistic / narcissistic shells and into the realm of society. It adds a theme of striving for enlightenment and perfection to the other colors, a kind of personal virtue filtered through the lens of the other two colors' ethoi. (Er, whatever the plural of ethos is. Belief systems.)
Black: Blue and white bring black's ambition to a grandiose level. They turn black's power-lust into a sort of progress-lust, a need for the self to accomplish at the expense of everything else, rather than to rule at the expense of everything else. Of course, there's a healthy dose of ruling-desire still lurking in Esper. Black's ruthlessness has helped push Esper to the logical conclusion of its quest for progress: utter domination of the natural world.
Blue: White and black pull blue in interesting directions here. Thanks to black, blue gets pulled in the anything-goes direction, the willingness to do whatever it takes to accomplish its intellectual goals, including the willingness to change everything about its external environment to achieve its own desires. Thanks to white, blue gets pulled in a public-focused direction, focusing its thirst for progress into a journey for abstract perfection. In a way, white provides the motivation here—perfection—and black provides the means—whatever it takes.
They contrast with the wild independence and impulse-driven instinct of red and green. In fact, wildness and instinct are Esper's greatest threats, and form the greatest reason for its need of control.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
so was Toshiro. Black doesnt mean bad guy.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
Um... doesn't a version of Yavimaya Elder depict Urza?
(not that I'm arguing Urza should be green; just saying his image has appeared on a green card)
On a similar note, Lim-Dul the Necromancer (not a planeswalker, but a powerful character) was depicted as a legendary all-black card... but has several minions on multicoloured cards including blue and red (i.e. UB and BR multicoloured cards). I think Urza could be depicted on a UW card, despite having some R characteristics. Heck, Jace, Memory Adept's second ability is Glimpse the Unthinkable (UB), and yet Jace is mono-blue.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)