I encourage people to voice their opinion on what is and is not wrong about magic and get a discussion going. There was an older topic like this but its old and im not going to necro it. So here goes mine naysayer be damned.
1. Encourage good control, hose bad control.
Good control would be things like Ensaring Bridge or Sphere of Safety or Forcefield. Cards like these allow the good control player to still control the board but do it in a way that doesn't stop the other player from playing the game. the game becomes deeper as result. take ensnaring bridge for instance. an aggro deck may want side in a spell like divination or such to make the good controller to draw a couple cards so he can attack. There is a way around the good controller's defense. it is hard to deal with and not without risks (in the case of ensnaring bridge, giving to other player cards) but the opponent can find ways around the defense of the control player without simply answering the controllers answers. which is what we have now.
Bad control is what we have now. The 29 counters and removal spells, 4 card draw spells and 2 aetherlings mode of thought (or lack thereof) is a degenerate strategy that sucks fun out of the game because you just sit there and watch a mouth breathing douchebag with an inferiority complex jerk himself off. Now i know that alot of you people enjoy playing these decks, but i get the feeling you also like to burn ants with a magnifying glass when you were young.
The worst part of these decks is that the people who play them, (in my experience, your mileage may vary.) tend to be pretentious jerks who think that playing this way makes them intellectually superior to someone who plays aggro or midrange. you will often see them on these very forums spewing whiny, meaningless, and most importantly, completely INCORRECT statments like "magic is just stupid creature smash" or "control is being nerfed" or "counterspell needs to be reprinted" when a U/X/X draw go control deck has been, in one form or another, a tier one deck in standard for as long as i have played magic. the colors switch around here and there but in the end it means nothing because its always the same deck no matter the colors: counter, counter, destory, Supreme Verdict, destroy, forced sacrifice, counter, Supreme Verdict, counter, drop big creature, I win.
Wizards can end this by printing more intelligent cards like ensnaring bridge and forcefield and stop printing stupid no thought required cards like supreme verdict. And please i know verdict has answers, i know them and use them. but just because a card has an answer or two does not in any way mean its not a degenerate piece of dung.
2. Stop pandering to collectors and investors. No more needs to be said. eliminate the reserved list reprint the dual lands and legacy staples. and continue to reprint them until no card is above $20 in price. only then will legacy and modern be interesting to me or anyone else with a brain bigger than their wallet. If Wotc really wants to make modern and legacy more popular this is the easiest solution.
3. Stop pandering to the "pro" players: the "professional" magic scene is a joke and most of the so called professional level events i see or read about
consist of the same three to five decks in a circle jerk game of paper rock scissors. if no one is willing to be creative with deck building what the hell is the ****ing point? just play tic tac toe and get it done faster.
Omnibus infraction for inappropriate language and censor evasion -Rax
and continue to reprint them until no card is above $20 in price.
When I saw the title of the thread, this was exactly what I was going to propose. To sum up how I feel on this topic, I will simply give another quote:
Omg who cares if they reprint a card? If they reprint the fetches then yes people will buy the packs like crazy and of course the online value will drop, but who cares?
If your worried about the online price changing, then you should invest your money in land (actual land) and not magic cards. It feels like I am in the middle of a stock broker argument. Magic is a card game, a c-a-r-d g-a-m-e.
What would improve magic? More Legacy tournaments.
Plus you asked how to improve Magic... Yet all you do in the whole thread is complain about control... in STANDARD and card prices.. There are other formats man. If you don't like the state of Standard play modern, legacy, vintage or EDH. Just don't start a thread complaining about standard and prices.
Plus you think reprinting Forcefield is actually a good idea...? That would make control insane...
Very subjective thread. What one would say would make the game better for them, probably would ruin the game for others.
My take on this subject is Wotc cant please everyone, so stop trying. Please those that will make you the most money and all the rest will work itself out.
The money issue really irks me. Any hobby you get into from snow skiing to fishing to RC cars to trains, if you want to be competitive or have a better collection then the next guy, you have to spend money. If you cant afford to be competitive, so be it.
First of all, there hasn't been draw go control in standard in years. Standard control is tap-out control, almost entirely. Standard control doesn't run too many counterspells at all, and the ones it does run are generally its worst cards.
Now, I agree with you that W/U control decks running elixir are not much fun to play against. But my point is that if you want to change the meta, you need to understand the meta and you clearly do not. Problematic control decks happen because Wizards has limited the things decks want to do. You say control is unfun when you don't get to execute your deck's game plan. I agree. However, the reason that we get decks like the current ones is because Wizards only allows one game plan right now; dropping creatures and swinging with them.
If combo existed, or alternate win cons, U/W control could not exist because there would be no way for the control deck to prepare for all game plans. Instead, you would get more interesting control decks that would have to be more proactive in order to deal with a wider range of decks. But when ever non-control deck plans to win by swinging with creatures, unfun control decks arise because they can focus so extremely.
I agree with you that Wizards needs to abolish the reserve list, if they have the authority to do so. Saving Legacy would be awesome, and in general, the prices of many staples of several formats are getting out of control.
But I strongly disagree with you characterization of tournament play. First of all, Wizards does not cater to tournament players. 90% of cards in a set are for casual players or drafters, not tournament constructed players. Every spoiler season makes me angry as a tournament player because I have to be so continuously disappointed at inanely bad cards.
Wizards does not cater to tournament play over casual play.
Additionally, tournament play is generally far less rock-paper-scissors than casual play. Most casual decks I've seen just lose to a significant percent of other casual decks; there is always some glaring weakness. Tournament decks rarely have a dead matchup, although it does happen. My standard deck has game against every deck in the format, of which there are 3 to 6 major decks and several minor ones past that. Modern and Legacy are more diverse, although there are more dead matchup in those formats due to huge deck diversity, but even there, you can prepare reasonably well and minimize even that.
Tournament play is far from rock-paper-scissors, (unless you pick a bad deck, or are specifically wanting to try a risky deck) and generally is far more balanced than casual play. Try some competitive play, with proxies if you have to, and rethink your views. It may not be the way you like playing magic, but tournament play isn't rock paper scissors, and it isn't devoid of diversity.
Core sets need to go back to every-other-year. The core needs to stop being viewed as a "Beginner's Guide To Magic." No one learns Magic from the core, and block sets are not viewed by any new player as "too expert" for them.
The core needs to return to being just that: THE CORE.
This is where the essential, standard, needed reprints go. The core should be at least HALF reprints, if not more. Cards can rotate in, rotate out, change and even be added, but this should be the core component of cards for MTG.
I'm getting so sick of people complaining about prices. They should reprint them if there is a reason besides making things cheaper (ie flavor). Who says 20 dollars is a good price? Why not make every card worth one penny? HOBBIES COST MONEY
I'm getting so sick of people complaining about prices. They should reprint them if there is a reason besides making things cheaper (ie flavor). Who says 20 dollars is a good price? Why not make every card worth one penny? HOBBIES COST MONEY
Prices are determined by supply and demand. Legacy staples are pretty clearly under-supplied: their prices simply go up at faster than inflation, faster than other MtG prices, and the only explanation is a shortage. It isn't that we want free cards, it's that the player base would be bigger if there were a bigger supply. Make legacy as accessible as modern and it would be a much more demanded format, and Wizards makes more money.
1) Stop re-printing cards from previous Core Sets in Core Sets. (Enough Giant Growths..)
2) Re-print cards from expansions in Core Sets. (Respite instead of Fog..)
3) Core sets boxes cost cheaper.
4) Expansions.. I agreed with OP. Return my control cards!
1. Encourage good control, hose bad control.
Good control would be things like Ensaring Bridge or Sphere of Safety or Forcefield. Cards like these allow the good control player to still control the board but do it in a way that doesn't stop the other player from playing the game. the game becomes deeper as result. take ensnaring bridge for instance. an aggro deck may want side in a spell like divination or such to make the good controller to draw a couple cards so he can attack. There is a way around the good controller's defense. it is hard to deal with and not without risks (in the case of ensnaring bridge, giving to other player cards) but the opponent can find ways around the defense of the control player without simply answering the controllers answers. which is what we have now.
Bad control is what we have now. The 29 counters and removal spells, 4 card draw spells and 2 aetherlings mode of thought (or lack thereof) is a degenerate strategy that sucks fun out of the game because you just sit there and watch a mouth breathing douchebag with an inferiority complex jerk himself off. Now i know that alot of you people enjoy playing these decks, but i get the feeling you also like to burn ants with a magnifying glass when you were young.
The worst part of these decks is that the people who play them, (in my experience, your mileage may vary.) tend to be pretentious jerks who think that playing this way makes them intellectually superior to someone who plays aggro or midrange. you will often see them on these very forums spewing whiny, meaningless, and most importantly, completely INCORRECT statments like "magic is just stupid creature smash" or "control is being nerfed" or "counterspell needs to be reprinted" when a U/X/X draw go control deck has been, in one form or another, a tier one deck in standard for as long as i have played magic. the colors switch around here and there but in the end it means nothing because its always the same deck no matter the colors: counter, counter, destory, Supreme Verdict, destroy, forced sacrifice, counter, Supreme Verdict, counter, drop big creature, I win.
Wizards can end this by printing more intelligent cards like ensnaring bridge and forcefield and stop printing stupid no thought required cards like supreme verdict. And please i know verdict has answers, i know them and use them. but just because a card has an answer or two does not in any way mean its not a degenerate piece of dung.
2. Stop pandering to collectors and investors. No more needs to be said. eliminate the reserved list reprint the dual lands and legacy staples. and continue to reprint them until no card is above $20 in price. only then will legacy and modern be interesting to me or anyone else with a brain bigger than their wallet. If Wotc really wants to make modern and legacy more popular this is the easiest solution.
3. Stop pandering to the "pro" players: the "professional" magic scene is a joke and most of the so called professional level events i see or read about
consist of the same three to five decks in a circle jerk game of paper rock scissors. if no one is willing to be creative with deck building what the hell is the ****ing point? just play tic tac toe and get it done faster.
Omnibus infraction for inappropriate language and censor evasion -Rax
When I saw the title of the thread, this was exactly what I was going to propose. To sum up how I feel on this topic, I will simply give another quote:
Plus you asked how to improve Magic... Yet all you do in the whole thread is complain about control... in STANDARD and card prices.. There are other formats man. If you don't like the state of Standard play modern, legacy, vintage or EDH. Just don't start a thread complaining about standard and prices.
Plus you think reprinting Forcefield is actually a good idea...? That would make control insane...
I don't think that that's an apt description of ensnaring bridge
My take on this subject is Wotc cant please everyone, so stop trying. Please those that will make you the most money and all the rest will work itself out.
The money issue really irks me. Any hobby you get into from snow skiing to fishing to RC cars to trains, if you want to be competitive or have a better collection then the next guy, you have to spend money. If you cant afford to be competitive, so be it.
First of all, there hasn't been draw go control in standard in years. Standard control is tap-out control, almost entirely. Standard control doesn't run too many counterspells at all, and the ones it does run are generally its worst cards.
Now, I agree with you that W/U control decks running elixir are not much fun to play against. But my point is that if you want to change the meta, you need to understand the meta and you clearly do not. Problematic control decks happen because Wizards has limited the things decks want to do. You say control is unfun when you don't get to execute your deck's game plan. I agree. However, the reason that we get decks like the current ones is because Wizards only allows one game plan right now; dropping creatures and swinging with them.
If combo existed, or alternate win cons, U/W control could not exist because there would be no way for the control deck to prepare for all game plans. Instead, you would get more interesting control decks that would have to be more proactive in order to deal with a wider range of decks. But when ever non-control deck plans to win by swinging with creatures, unfun control decks arise because they can focus so extremely.
I agree with you that Wizards needs to abolish the reserve list, if they have the authority to do so. Saving Legacy would be awesome, and in general, the prices of many staples of several formats are getting out of control.
But I strongly disagree with you characterization of tournament play. First of all, Wizards does not cater to tournament players. 90% of cards in a set are for casual players or drafters, not tournament constructed players. Every spoiler season makes me angry as a tournament player because I have to be so continuously disappointed at inanely bad cards.
Wizards does not cater to tournament play over casual play.
Additionally, tournament play is generally far less rock-paper-scissors than casual play. Most casual decks I've seen just lose to a significant percent of other casual decks; there is always some glaring weakness. Tournament decks rarely have a dead matchup, although it does happen. My standard deck has game against every deck in the format, of which there are 3 to 6 major decks and several minor ones past that. Modern and Legacy are more diverse, although there are more dead matchup in those formats due to huge deck diversity, but even there, you can prepare reasonably well and minimize even that.
Tournament play is far from rock-paper-scissors, (unless you pick a bad deck, or are specifically wanting to try a risky deck) and generally is far more balanced than casual play. Try some competitive play, with proxies if you have to, and rethink your views. It may not be the way you like playing magic, but tournament play isn't rock paper scissors, and it isn't devoid of diversity.
The core needs to return to being just that: THE CORE.
This is where the essential, standard, needed reprints go. The core should be at least HALF reprints, if not more. Cards can rotate in, rotate out, change and even be added, but this should be the core component of cards for MTG.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
/Thread
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Prices are determined by supply and demand. Legacy staples are pretty clearly under-supplied: their prices simply go up at faster than inflation, faster than other MtG prices, and the only explanation is a shortage. It isn't that we want free cards, it's that the player base would be bigger if there were a bigger supply. Make legacy as accessible as modern and it would be a much more demanded format, and Wizards makes more money.
1) Stop re-printing cards from previous Core Sets in Core Sets. (Enough Giant Growths..)
2) Re-print cards from expansions in Core Sets. (Respite instead of Fog..)
3) Core sets boxes cost cheaper.
4) Expansions.. I agreed with OP. Return my control cards!
With that said, I'm going to go ahead and close this.
(Also known as Xenphire)