Imagine if you will that at it's inception Magic had been designed like every other game on the market, Chess for example. The game would come bundled in a box with two pre-constructed decks. A few smaller weaker cards, some tricky surprise cards, a vulnerable but important card and one really powerful card each.
The decks would of course need to be identical or else the game wouldn't be fair. (Even the most balanced Duel Decks will show you that). And they would be set up in a predetermined order (just like the pieces in chess).
Of course there would be little room for growth, any expansions would have to hook on to the original game, after one or two the game would be too complex for any more additions.
There might also be different versions or editions of the game each competing with the other for sales. It would have been a pretty fun game, maybe gathered a following and then pittered out with the occasional reprint sold at a discount in Walmart.
Like Tic-Tac-Toe and Chess there would have been right and wrong moves, people would come to the table with 5 variations of the match already planned out.
If Magic were run like chess it would not be the dynamic and deep game it is today. We wouldn't have the joy of deck building. We wouldn't have thousands of cards worth of content.We wouldn't have websites to discuss it. There wouldn't be a play style that fits every personality. There wouldn't be interesting and complex backstory portrayed in novels.
There would be no Magic.
I'm glad Magic was set up the way it was, I'm glad Magic isn't like chess or any other game before it. I don't spend a lot of money on cards but I have real fun with the game. I've even built a Modern deck for $25 and it's been testing pretty well against a good number of other decks online my LGS is starting Modern next month and if it performs as well there I may be taking it to Chicago soon.
That was off topic but the point is Magic is Magic because of the way it was designed, the team at Wizards are interested in making money but they love the game as much as we do and they don't do anything just to sell packs. We are lucky to have the game we do.
Thank you. I really couldn't have said it better. I too love this game. Is it perfect? No. But all the "this game sucks" stuff that I keep reading just shows me one thing.
I am eagerly awaiting the "what if Magic were run like Magic" and "what if Chess were run like Chess" topics
Hmm, "What if Magic were run like hockey".
"Penalty!!! Two minutes for insufficient shuffling"
And then the tournament organizer sends you to the corner of the room, kind of like in grade school where you are sent to the corner if you were bad.
"5 minute Major!!! Stealing people's cards."
And then you have to stand outside, away from the location of where the tournament or league is held.
or how about your drop your cards, and you pull your opponent's shirt over his head, while he does the same to you? In that case, both you and your opponent are ejected from the premises.
THAT ^^ is my favorite part of Magic, always looking for the new "idea".
I remember hearing that Arabian Nights would have different backs but players explained to R. Garfield that it would change the game too much.
Assuming then that all subsequent expansions would have had different backs, ugh...
The great thing about magic is that it is many games. People are constantly coming up with new ways to play it.
Not only the distinctions between constructed and limited, and not just the distinctions between draft/mini master/sealed or standard/modern/legacy/vintage, but deeper.
There's the popular ones like Pauper, EDH, and Cube. But then you can go even deeper.
It's really great, just look at the homebrew formats subforum in casual as an example.
EDIT:
Yomi seems to be a game completely about high level competition. Maybe it's just that it has a much smaller reach, but I think "can't build you own decks" has a lot to do with it.
I read the OP and wanted to mention Yomi, looks like someone beat me to it. :/
Yomi is designed like a fighting game though that is just played out using cards. There are a lot of interesting choices to make throughout the game and the 10 characters are diverse enough.
That being said, Yomi wouldn't be a fun deck-builder if it were allowed. The card differences are very subtle compared to Magic because the foundation of the Attack > Throw > Block/Dodge > Attack system.
Magic on the other hand, has much bigger differences between cards and while it can still be fun with un-alterable preconstructed decks the decision tree isn't as large as it is with Yomi's decks ans the customizability plays perfectly into Magic's strengths.
I'm going on record right now and stating that before the end of 2012 we will see foil dual lands in booster packs (The real, Alpha dual lands). You can quote me on that.
"Penalty!!! Two minutes for insufficient shuffling"
And then the tournament organizer sends you to the corner of the room, kind of like in grade school where you are sent to the corner if you were bad.
"5 minute Major!!! Stealing people's cards."
And then you have to stand outside, away from the location of where the tournament or league is held.
or how about your drop your cards, and you pull your opponent's shirt over his head, while he does the same to you? In that case, both you and your opponent are ejected from the premises.
Yea, even if you loose you can High-Stick the hoser, and the throw off your gloves.
With all the *****ing lately, you might think it was.
A hit, a very palpable hit!!!
Anyway:
1) Early design called for rare=more powerful. By extension, a person who is willing to buy more packs, and therefore spend more money, has an advantage. The game was not made with a completely even playing field (in terms of resources) in mind -- you _can_ spend money to buy more queens.
2) Part of what makes magic successful is the luck factor. Someone with little experience _can_ beat a PT winner. Some people may argue that this shouldn't be the case, but magic, from its inception, has always been like this, and the people played it _because_ of it. Changing it would alienate the players that do like the opportunity to win despite the odds.
3) Part of what makes magic successful is the _customization_. There is NO OTHER genre of gaming more customizable that CCGs. NONE, except maybe calvinball. Again, this was designed from the start, its what attracted players, and changing it would piss off those that like this.
Unfortunately, with nigh-infinite customization, it is unavoidable that some tactics/cards/decks will be better than others.
I don't know guys, with that other thread, it makes this one seem like the "In Soviet Russia" meme. Well it sort of works, except replace either "Chess" or "Magic" with "you".
I don't know guys, with that other thread, it makes this one seem like the "In Soviet Russia" meme. Well it sort of works, except replace either "Chess" or "Magic" with "you".
OP downplays the importance of luck and its ability to enable delusions.
I was about to go into a sch-peal about how luck is an over-used scape-goat then I noticed this isn't the thread where I downplayed the importance of luck, that was in the "Notions others have that bug you" thread.
Luck and it's delusion enabling powers has nothing to do with this conversation.
I don't know guys, with that other thread, it makes this one seem like the "In Soviet Russia" meme. Well it sort of works, except replace either "Chess" or "Magic" with "you".
The decks would of course need to be identical or else the game wouldn't be fair. (Even the most balanced Duel Decks will show you that). And they would be set up in a predetermined order (just like the pieces in chess).
Of course there would be little room for growth, any expansions would have to hook on to the original game, after one or two the game would be too complex for any more additions.
There might also be different versions or editions of the game each competing with the other for sales. It would have been a pretty fun game, maybe gathered a following and then pittered out with the occasional reprint sold at a discount in Walmart.
Like Tic-Tac-Toe and Chess there would have been right and wrong moves, people would come to the table with 5 variations of the match already planned out.
If Magic were run like chess it would not be the dynamic and deep game it is today. We wouldn't have the joy of deck building. We wouldn't have thousands of cards worth of content.We wouldn't have websites to discuss it. There wouldn't be a play style that fits every personality. There wouldn't be interesting and complex backstory portrayed in novels.
There would be no Magic.
I'm glad Magic was set up the way it was, I'm glad Magic isn't like chess or any other game before it. I don't spend a lot of money on cards but I have real fun with the game. I've even built a Modern deck for $25 and it's been testing pretty well against a good number of other decks online my LGS is starting Modern next month and if it performs as well there I may be taking it to Chicago soon.
That was off topic but the point is Magic is Magic because of the way it was designed, the team at Wizards are interested in making money but they love the game as much as we do and they don't do anything just to sell packs. We are lucky to have the game we do.
That is all.
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron
Magic isn't the game for them.
[180 classic cube]
Hmm, "What if Magic were run like hockey".
"Penalty!!! Two minutes for insufficient shuffling"
And then the tournament organizer sends you to the corner of the room, kind of like in grade school where you are sent to the corner if you were bad.
"5 minute Major!!! Stealing people's cards."
And then you have to stand outside, away from the location of where the tournament or league is held.
or how about your drop your cards, and you pull your opponent's shirt over his head, while he does the same to you? In that case, both you and your opponent are ejected from the premises.
THAT ^^ is my favorite part of Magic, always looking for the new "idea".
I remember hearing that Arabian Nights would have different backs but players explained to R. Garfield that it would change the game too much.
Assuming then that all subsequent expansions would have had different backs, ugh...
Not only the distinctions between constructed and limited, and not just the distinctions between draft/mini master/sealed or standard/modern/legacy/vintage, but deeper.
There's the popular ones like Pauper, EDH, and Cube. But then you can go even deeper.
It's really great, just look at the homebrew formats subforum in casual as an example.
I read the OP and wanted to mention Yomi, looks like someone beat me to it. :/
Yomi is designed like a fighting game though that is just played out using cards. There are a lot of interesting choices to make throughout the game and the 10 characters are diverse enough.
That being said, Yomi wouldn't be a fun deck-builder if it were allowed. The card differences are very subtle compared to Magic because the foundation of the Attack > Throw > Block/Dodge > Attack system.
Magic on the other hand, has much bigger differences between cards and while it can still be fun with un-alterable preconstructed decks the decision tree isn't as large as it is with Yomi's decks ans the customizability plays perfectly into Magic's strengths.
Or football.
"Illegal block to the flier! 15-life penalty. Automatic second game."
-True Blood
click
What if Magic were run like a brothel?
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
A hit, a very palpable hit!!!
Anyway:
1) Early design called for rare=more powerful. By extension, a person who is willing to buy more packs, and therefore spend more money, has an advantage. The game was not made with a completely even playing field (in terms of resources) in mind -- you _can_ spend money to buy more queens.
2) Part of what makes magic successful is the luck factor. Someone with little experience _can_ beat a PT winner. Some people may argue that this shouldn't be the case, but magic, from its inception, has always been like this, and the people played it _because_ of it. Changing it would alienate the players that do like the opportunity to win despite the odds.
3) Part of what makes magic successful is the _customization_. There is NO OTHER genre of gaming more customizable that CCGs. NONE, except maybe calvinball. Again, this was designed from the start, its what attracted players, and changing it would piss off those that like this.
Unfortunately, with nigh-infinite customization, it is unavoidable that some tactics/cards/decks will be better than others.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I believe that was the intention.
I don't like a game that lacks the first element of any good game: fun.
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
That's because they're Russian.
DCI Rules Advisor
:symg::symw::symb: Junk Rites
Trades
I was about to go into a sch-peal about how luck is an over-used scape-goat then I noticed this isn't the thread where I downplayed the importance of luck, that was in the "Notions others have that bug you" thread.
Luck and it's delusion enabling powers has nothing to do with this conversation.
In Soviet Russia Magic plays you.
Very astute, I used it as a Rhetorical device to help drive my point home.
GModern Belcher
GGreen Deck Wins
3I'm the King
RBlazeTron