Okay. Here is the scenario. There is a player at my LGS that plays Delver. He always has. Whenever I'm doing particularly well, I have to face him in the late rounds. It is good playing him because he is a good player and plays a good deck. So, the competition is good for me. I am currently something like 4-5 vs. him.
Here is the problem. He seems to get Delver of Secrets an extraordinarily amount of times on turn 1. Sometimes, this is followed by turn 2 Delver. Now that is all right. Maybe he is lucky. However, when he was playing next to me the round before I actually played him, I noticed him putting a clear sleeve on his FOIL Delver and then putting it into the regular card sleeve (ie. double sleeving). I asked him about it and he said he did it to protect it. However, when I shuffled his deck the next round, it didn't seem double sleeved. He doesn't use the flip cards; he uses the Delver. Now I can't blame him for having the FOIL Delver, as I do too. But, I am wondering if this makes it easier for him to cheat.
I am thinking about asking a judge about this, as we have a level 3 Judge at our LGS. I don't want the judge to give any information about me. Basically, I don't want this player to know I brought it up. Especially if he really isn't cheating. I just don't want to be taken advantage of.
My background is that I go to all PTQs around my area and have been "grinder" status before. I know how many times people have "tried stuff" at PTQs, so I know a lot of tricks. I am really curious about whether he is cheating or not.
What should I do? Should I ask him? Should I ask the Judge about this or to check this particular person? What would you do personally?
(Just as an estimate, in about 25 games in our 9 matches, he's had 1st turn Delver probably 20 times.) That seems above averages to me.
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If you suspect a player of cheating, please tell the Judge. You can do so privately, it doesn't have to be a public accusation but it is in everyone's best interest that any tournament officials are aware of your suspicions so they can investigate.
On the subject of double sleeving. This has the potential to mark the card.
On the subject of your observations: Consider that the purpose of a Delver deck is to drop Delver turn one (kind of its thing). Are you taking into account the fact that your opponent is very likely mulliganing hands that won't achieve this?
Edit:
To conclude, tell a Judge. Tell a Judge. Tell. A. Judge.
If you suspect a player of cheating, please tell the Judge. You can do so privately, it doesn't have to be a public accusation but it is in everyone's best interest that any tournament officials are aware of your suspicions so they can investigate.
On the subject of double sleeving. This has the potential to mark the card.
On the subject of your observations: Consider that the purpose of a Delver deck is to drop Delver turn one (kind of its thing). Are you taking into account the fact that your opponent is very likely mulliganing hands that won't achieve this?
Edit:
To conclude, tell a Judge. Tell a Judge. Tell. A. Judge.
You're very right. He has mulled a few times to 6. He has kept some mana light hands, maybe just because of Delver. That was something that I didn't even consider because I personally don't mull like that.
But, I think with my suspicions, it would be smart to tell the Judge. I just really don't want the player to know who brought it up. He always tells me that the matches against me are fun because he really has to try hard and make good decisions. I actually like playing against him too, but am VERY wary of cheating because I've been to probably 300 big tournaments (PTQs, Opens, Grand Prixs) in my life. I also can't forget a Game Day (only time I didn't make top 8 at a Game Day) when a new player that I didn't know stacked his deck and mysteriously had amazing draws to beat me.
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If that is the only card in his entire deck that he is double sleeving, then yes bring it up as that can easily be seen as marked cards. Are the rest of his delvers foil or just the one? Does it seem that that is the one that hits play most often turn 1?
I also can't forget a Game Day (only time I didn't make top 8 at a Game Day) when a new player that I didn't know stacked his deck and mysteriously had amazing draws to beat me.
How do you know he stacked his deck? I mean, it's entirely possible to get amazing draws and flatten someone entirely by luck. I won the finals of the last Game Day by drawing 5 anthems with my Tokens deck, no cheating involved, yet I could tell my opponent thought that event a bit too fortuitous in my favour. And if I saw that guy posting on a forum that I'd stacked my deck, I'd be understandably a bit choked at someone leaping to ugly, baseless conclusions.
Even if he isn't intentionally cheating double sleeving one card is marking your deck. At the very least he should fix it.
I've doubled sleeved and entire deck for 1 card before (frites, I did it because I ds my foil elesh norn as it belongs in my pimped edh deck).
TBH this is pretty shaky ground for assuming he's cheating. Turn 1 delver isn't really that hard for a deck since 4/60= 1 out of every 15 cards is a delver meaning if he mulligans into one he has a fair chance to get one turn 1 every game without having to mulligan more than once.
But yeah you might want to let him know that ds only the foil delver in his deck is technically considered marked cards and is at lightest a warning (FNM and its unintentional) and he should change it.
If you double sleeve 4 cards and nothing else in your deck you are marking your deck. I have a friend who does this in Yugioh and hasn't been caught yet and knows a multitude of different ways to cheat, and he's not the sharpest knife in the droor (and is 15) so if he can do it then i'm sure an older magic player can easily do this.
Yes, tell a Judge dude. 2 Delvers before turn three is bonkers. I highly doubt the guy is mulling hands like Ponder, Snag, Land, Land, Leak, SNapcaster, Geist etc just to get a sub par hand with Delver.
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Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
He has 3 FOIL Delvers. I know because when he saw mine, he asked if I had extras. I told him I did but couldn't trade them because I collect FOIL Delvers.
I saw him specifically double sleeving a FOIL Delver. When I shuffle his deck, it doesn't feel like the deck is double sleeved, so I feel like it's only those cards. I'm not totally sure that he knows he has to double sleeve the whole deck if at all.
@Teia - Someone told me later on that he stacked his deck. It makes a lot of sense considering how he was acting and what he drew. I just thought he was nervous as I had never seen him before and Game Day was somewhat "big" at that time. Nowadays, I always shuffle someone's deck if I don't know them, suspect that they have any chance of cheating, or sometimes I do it because I just like how their sleeves shuffle.
The 1st Delver that he draws is always FOIL. Usually the 2nd one too, but that makes sense since 3 are FOIL out of 4.
I think I just need to bring it up with the judge. If the judge DOES tell the guy that I brought it up, I'll just say that I'm sorry if I was wrong. I just wanted to make sure.
@Infallible - Exsam brought up a good point that he may be mulling hands in order to get Delver. No, he would not mulligan that particular hand because it is awesome, but if it had 1 or 2 cards less, he may. I don't know how he mulls. Personally I've had so many mulls, so many 0 land hands or 7 land hands, that I usually only mull if I'm screwed. I try to work my way out of slow hands or low mana hands. But he is definitely different in that aspect. Actually last week when I beat him, he failed to draw a White source in both games until it was too late. All he pretty much had was 1st turn Delvers and ended up chumping because my hands were amazing.
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On the subject of double sleeving. This has the potential to mark the card.
It is marking a card. It also makes it more likely to be cut to the top. Same with slightly warped foils. Thicker cards naturally get cut to the top more. I know this because when i used to play a Boros deck my Promo Ajani and foil Ranger of eos were both slightly warped, not enough to be considered marked as couldn't really tell to you flipped the card over but enough so it made the card slightly thicker. As you know you do a lot of shuffling with that deck. Both the slightly warped foils would end up in my hand almost every game. I actually ended up trading the ranger and Ajani for non-foil versions after a week because it felt like cheating... If you don't believe me sleeve up a deck of 60 cards with a couple of slightly warped foils and shuffle/cut a bunch of times. I'm sure you find the Foils on top like 10 times as often as any other card.
@Teia - Someone told me later on that he stacked his deck. It makes a lot of sense considering how he was acting and what he drew. I just thought he was nervous as I had never seen him before and Game Day was somewhat "big" at that time. Nowadays, I always shuffle someone's deck if I don't know them, suspect that they have any chance of cheating, or sometimes I do it because I just like how their sleeves shuffle.
That someone was obviously lying and the guy must be a moron.:rolleyes:
It was me right?
The 1st Delver that he draws is always FOIL. Usually the 2nd one too, but that makes sense since 3 are FOIL out of 4.
I have a feeling it because the foils are slightly warped. Could be wrong. He might be completely oblivious too this.
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Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Marked cards is something that can only be determined by physical examination of the cards and not remotely which is why my statement was qualified.
It is very likely that double sleeving a single card will make it stand out from the rest of the deck but it is also possible that it will have no impact depending on the sleeves involved. This determination can only be made on site.
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That someone was obviously lying and the guy must be a moron.:rolleyes:
It was me right?
No it wasn't you. I played you in Round 2. It was a UR Runeflare Trap deck in Round 1. (I guess you could say that my loss in Round 2 also prevented me from top 8ing...)
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Marked cards is something that can only be determined by physical examination of the cards and not remotely which is why my statement was qualified.
It is very likely that double sleeving a single card will make it stand out from the rest of the deck but it is also possible that it will have no impact depending on the sleeves involved. This determination can only be made on site.
I don't know about you but if someone has 4 cards double sleeved in a deck with no others doubled up you can EASILY pick them out. Ive also seen players use some slightly longer than the rest sleeves that are easily picked out.
I wouldn't play against this person until a judge goes through the deck. especially if there are prizes on the line. Also are the delvers the only foil in the deck?
I wouldn't play against this person until a judge goes through the deck. especially if there are prizes on the line. Also are the delvers the only foil in the deck?
As far as I know, yes, there are only 3 FOIL Delvers in his deck and they are the only FOILs. But I can't really complain just about that fact too much because I only have 4 FOIL Delver and 3 FOIL Geist of Saint Traft (won them in a tournament) in my deck. I prefer to play with FOIL Delver myself because it's a card that I collect, it being the 1st flip card to be amazing.
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Regarding stacked decks; I riffle pretty well. A stacked deck is typically Card-Card-Land. So I cut and smooth riffle four times. A controlled split and perfect riffle results in the deck going like this:
C-C-C-C-L-L then CCCCCCCC-LLLL then CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC-LLLLLLLL then finally all cards, all lands. I hand it back afterwards and let them mulligan lose game one. While I doubt I get the perfect split of Cards to Lands when I riffle, the effect is close. Lots of lands or lots of no lands.
Ugh, I got that draw in my tokens, but unfortunately, I got its bad cousin. 5 anthems, but only 3 land and 1 token producer (a doomed traveller which refused to die). Missed top 8 because of it.
Yeah, my draw was something like 5 anthems, 3 lands, Gather, and Lingering Souls.
I also managed to kill a Miracle deck with a pair of Doomed Travelers because the guy couldn't find an Entreat and ran himself out of ways to recur Bonfire, so he just kinda sat there and took 2 damage a turn for like 5-6 turns. My Tokens misadventures are mind-boggling sometimes.
@Teia - Someone told me later on that he stacked his deck. It makes a lot of sense considering how he was acting and what he drew. I just thought he was nervous as I had never seen him before and Game Day was somewhat "big" at that time. Nowadays, I always shuffle someone's deck if I don't know them, suspect that they have any chance of cheating, or sometimes I do it because I just like how their sleeves shuffle.
Honestly, I wouldn't really believe someone's cheating solely based on hearsay. And what I don't get is how he could get away with something like deck-stacking to begin with because the minute I see someone do anything remotely weird (even pile-shuffle a number of piles divisible into the total deck size), I thoroughly shuffle their deck before giving it back to them. And even if I don't suspect anything, I always shuffle instead of cut, even in the middle of a game. Just like periodically checking cards in hand against how many cards they should have at any given point, it's a good practice to get into to avoid shenanigans.
Edit:
Quote from heroicraptor »
Good job cheating.
As far as I know, what the guy described (trying to manascrew someone who mana-weaved) is actually against tournament rules.
No it wasn't you. I played you in Round 2. It was a UR Runeflare Trap deck in Round 1. (I guess you could say that my loss in Round 2 also prevented me from top 8ing...)
I meant i was the one that brought it to your attention that he was mana-weaving and some other stuff. Not that i was the one who stacked a deck against you. The whole moron thing was my failed attempt at self deprecating humor.
If i remember correctly i warned Mink prior to playing the guy and you happened to be part of the conversation. When i had played the guy in the first round of top 8 i witnessed him both mana-weave and weave his sideboard cards. Then without shuffling presented me the deck. I figured that since it was kinda of a casual event i would just shuffle up is deck and let him know that what he did is against the rules. I just figured he didn't know. After the round I let Mink know to watch out and possible call a judge if he did it again. I don't know what happened past that point since i left prior to them playing.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
It's a lot easier to stack your deck if you do it that way (e.g. a 60-card deck being shuffled into 4, 5, or 6 piles). Doing it in 7 means you've got uneven piles, which while still abuseable if you do nothing but pile shuffling means the ease of doing so is much lower.
Regarding stacked decks; I riffle pretty well. A stacked deck is typically Card-Card-Land. So I cut and smooth riffle four times. A controlled split and perfect riffle results in the deck going like this:
C-C-C-C-L-L then CCCCCCCC-LLLL then CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC-LLLLLLLL then finally all cards, all lands. I hand it back afterwards and let them mulligan lose game one. While I doubt I get the perfect split of Cards to Lands when I riffle, the effect is close. Lots of lands or lots of no lands.
Would you riffle your deck in that manner? It seams to me that this could result in manascrew even in a properly randomized deck. Which is probably why it is illegal.
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I think one day they are going to have to have a judge shuffle all the decks, so the shuffle is impartial.
Would you riffle your deck in that manner? It seams to me that this could result in manascrew even in a properly randomized deck. Which is probably why it is illegal.
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I think one day they are going to have to have a judge shuffle all the decks, so the shuffle is impartial.
If I am reading correctly all he does is just cut and riffle shuffle 4 times, which is a perfectly acceptable method of shuffling an opponent's deck. If that happens to mana screw someone who mana weaved before the round, that's what they get for mana weaving without sufficient shuffling afterward (which IS cheating).
Considering that I've played against a guy at FNM who complained about me shuffling his deck, got mana screwed game one, then proceeded to mana weave right in front of me after the round was over, I find it hard to feel bad.
If I am reading correctly all he does is just cut and riffle shuffle 4 times, which is a perfectly acceptable method of shuffling an opponent's deck. If that happens to mana screw someone who mana weaved before the round, that's what they get for mana weaving without sufficient shuffling afterward (which IS cheating).
Considering that I've played against a guy at FNM who complained about me shuffling his deck, got mana screwed game one, then proceeded to mana weave right in front of me after the round was over, I find it hard to feel bad.
If you suspect a player of mana weaving and intentionally shuffle in such a way that you mana screw them YOU have now cheated.
If you suspect someone of cheating, call a judge. That is ALWAYS the right call.
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
If I am reading correctly all he does is just cut and riffle shuffle 4 times, which is a perfectly acceptable method of shuffling an opponent's deck. If that happens to mana screw someone who mana weaved before the round, that's what they get for mana weaving without sufficient shuffling afterward (which IS cheating).
Except that if that is your intention then you are deliberately attempting to stack your opponent's deck (i.e. cheating)
It's a lot easier to stack your deck if you do it that way (e.g. a 60-card deck being shuffled into 4, 5, or 6 piles). Doing it in 7 means you've got uneven piles, which while still abuseable if you do nothing but pile shuffling means the ease of doing so is much lower.
Just because you CAN stack your deck that way doesn't make it weird. I pile shuffle in piles of 5 and 6, and each time I grab a pile I side shuffle them together. Since pile shuffling isn't even randomizing unless other shuffling is involved, using numbers that divide into 60 makes sense as a means of counting your deck.
As I understand it, if your opponent mana weaves and presents, it is your responsibility to call judge on them for failing to randomize their deck properly. If you don't, it can be a cheating violation on both players.
I meant i was the one that brought it to your attention that he was mana-weaving and some other stuff. Not that i was the one who stacked a deck against you. The whole moron thing was my failed attempt at self deprecating humor.
If i remember correctly i warned M prior to playing the guy and you happened to be part of the conversation. When i had played the guy in the first round of top 8 i witnessed him both mana-weave and weave his sideboard cards. Then without shuffling presented me the deck. I figured that since it was kinda of a casual event i would just shuffle up is deck and let him know that what he did is against the rules. I just figured he didn't know. After the round I let Mink know to watch out and possible call a judge if he did it again. I don't know what happened past that point since i left prior to them playing.
Well it's not hearsay. It's my eyewitness account.
I probably remembered it wrong. I thought that M was the one who told me that he may be cheating. Any way, I should just let that one go. I've learned from it.
@heroicraptor - I actually didn't know that you can't shuffle an opponent's deck in a certain way. I've had a few opponents try to mana weave their decks, I shuffled in a manner like ColonelCoo said, obviously not perfectly but close. The guy kept the hand and only played 2 lands the whole game.
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Here is the problem. He seems to get Delver of Secrets an extraordinarily amount of times on turn 1. Sometimes, this is followed by turn 2 Delver. Now that is all right. Maybe he is lucky. However, when he was playing next to me the round before I actually played him, I noticed him putting a clear sleeve on his FOIL Delver and then putting it into the regular card sleeve (ie. double sleeving). I asked him about it and he said he did it to protect it. However, when I shuffled his deck the next round, it didn't seem double sleeved. He doesn't use the flip cards; he uses the Delver. Now I can't blame him for having the FOIL Delver, as I do too. But, I am wondering if this makes it easier for him to cheat.
I am thinking about asking a judge about this, as we have a level 3 Judge at our LGS. I don't want the judge to give any information about me. Basically, I don't want this player to know I brought it up. Especially if he really isn't cheating. I just don't want to be taken advantage of.
My background is that I go to all PTQs around my area and have been "grinder" status before. I know how many times people have "tried stuff" at PTQs, so I know a lot of tricks. I am really curious about whether he is cheating or not.
What should I do? Should I ask him? Should I ask the Judge about this or to check this particular person? What would you do personally?
(Just as an estimate, in about 25 games in our 9 matches, he's had 1st turn Delver probably 20 times.) That seems above averages to me.
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Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
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Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)On the subject of double sleeving. This has the potential to mark the card.
On the subject of your observations: Consider that the purpose of a Delver deck is to drop Delver turn one (kind of its thing). Are you taking into account the fact that your opponent is very likely mulliganing hands that won't achieve this?
Edit:
To conclude, tell a Judge. Tell a Judge. Tell. A. Judge.
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You're very right. He has mulled a few times to 6. He has kept some mana light hands, maybe just because of Delver. That was something that I didn't even consider because I personally don't mull like that.
But, I think with my suspicions, it would be smart to tell the Judge. I just really don't want the player to know who brought it up. He always tells me that the matches against me are fun because he really has to try hard and make good decisions. I actually like playing against him too, but am VERY wary of cheating because I've been to probably 300 big tournaments (PTQs, Opens, Grand Prixs) in my life. I also can't forget a Game Day (only time I didn't make top 8 at a Game Day) when a new player that I didn't know stacked his deck and mysteriously had amazing draws to beat me.
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How do you know he stacked his deck? I mean, it's entirely possible to get amazing draws and flatten someone entirely by luck. I won the finals of the last Game Day by drawing 5 anthems with my Tokens deck, no cheating involved, yet I could tell my opponent thought that event a bit too fortuitous in my favour. And if I saw that guy posting on a forum that I'd stacked my deck, I'd be understandably a bit choked at someone leaping to ugly, baseless conclusions.
I've doubled sleeved and entire deck for 1 card before (frites, I did it because I ds my foil elesh norn as it belongs in my pimped edh deck).
TBH this is pretty shaky ground for assuming he's cheating. Turn 1 delver isn't really that hard for a deck since 4/60= 1 out of every 15 cards is a delver meaning if he mulligans into one he has a fair chance to get one turn 1 every game without having to mulligan more than once.
But yeah you might want to let him know that ds only the foil delver in his deck is technically considered marked cards and is at lightest a warning (FNM and its unintentional) and he should change it.
Yes, tell a Judge dude. 2 Delvers before turn three is bonkers. I highly doubt the guy is mulling hands like Ponder, Snag, Land, Land, Leak, SNapcaster, Geist etc just to get a sub par hand with Delver.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
I saw him specifically double sleeving a FOIL Delver. When I shuffle his deck, it doesn't feel like the deck is double sleeved, so I feel like it's only those cards. I'm not totally sure that he knows he has to double sleeve the whole deck if at all.
@Teia - Someone told me later on that he stacked his deck. It makes a lot of sense considering how he was acting and what he drew. I just thought he was nervous as I had never seen him before and Game Day was somewhat "big" at that time. Nowadays, I always shuffle someone's deck if I don't know them, suspect that they have any chance of cheating, or sometimes I do it because I just like how their sleeves shuffle.
The 1st Delver that he draws is always FOIL. Usually the 2nd one too, but that makes sense since 3 are FOIL out of 4.
I think I just need to bring it up with the judge. If the judge DOES tell the guy that I brought it up, I'll just say that I'm sorry if I was wrong. I just wanted to make sure.
@Infallible - Exsam brought up a good point that he may be mulling hands in order to get Delver. No, he would not mulligan that particular hand because it is awesome, but if it had 1 or 2 cards less, he may. I don't know how he mulls. Personally I've had so many mulls, so many 0 land hands or 7 land hands, that I usually only mull if I'm screwed. I try to work my way out of slow hands or low mana hands. But he is definitely different in that aspect. Actually last week when I beat him, he failed to draw a White source in both games until it was too late. All he pretty much had was 1st turn Delvers and ended up chumping because my hands were amazing.
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Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)It is marking a card. It also makes it more likely to be cut to the top. Same with slightly warped foils. Thicker cards naturally get cut to the top more. I know this because when i used to play a Boros deck my Promo Ajani and foil Ranger of eos were both slightly warped, not enough to be considered marked as couldn't really tell to you flipped the card over but enough so it made the card slightly thicker. As you know you do a lot of shuffling with that deck. Both the slightly warped foils would end up in my hand almost every game. I actually ended up trading the ranger and Ajani for non-foil versions after a week because it felt like cheating... If you don't believe me sleeve up a deck of 60 cards with a couple of slightly warped foils and shuffle/cut a bunch of times. I'm sure you find the Foils on top like 10 times as often as any other card.
That someone was obviously lying and the guy must be a moron.:rolleyes:
It was me right?
I have a feeling it because the foils are slightly warped. Could be wrong. He might be completely oblivious too this.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Marked cards is something that can only be determined by physical examination of the cards and not remotely which is why my statement was qualified.
It is very likely that double sleeving a single card will make it stand out from the rest of the deck but it is also possible that it will have no impact depending on the sleeves involved. This determination can only be made on site.
Ever wanted to know what guidelines Judges use to make rulings? Find out at the DCI Document Center.
You can also find the latest Comprehensive Rules here.
No it wasn't you. I played you in Round 2. It was a UR Runeflare Trap deck in Round 1. (I guess you could say that my loss in Round 2 also prevented me from top 8ing...)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I don't know about you but if someone has 4 cards double sleeved in a deck with no others doubled up you can EASILY pick them out. Ive also seen players use some slightly longer than the rest sleeves that are easily picked out.
I wouldn't play against this person until a judge goes through the deck. especially if there are prizes on the line. Also are the delvers the only foil in the deck?
As far as I know, yes, there are only 3 FOIL Delvers in his deck and they are the only FOILs. But I can't really complain just about that fact too much because I only have 4 FOIL Delver and 3 FOIL Geist of Saint Traft (won them in a tournament) in my deck. I prefer to play with FOIL Delver myself because it's a card that I collect, it being the 1st flip card to be amazing.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Good job cheating.
Yeah, my draw was something like 5 anthems, 3 lands, Gather, and Lingering Souls.
I also managed to kill a Miracle deck with a pair of Doomed Travelers because the guy couldn't find an Entreat and ran himself out of ways to recur Bonfire, so he just kinda sat there and took 2 damage a turn for like 5-6 turns. My Tokens misadventures are mind-boggling sometimes.
Honestly, I wouldn't really believe someone's cheating solely based on hearsay. And what I don't get is how he could get away with something like deck-stacking to begin with because the minute I see someone do anything remotely weird (even pile-shuffle a number of piles divisible into the total deck size), I thoroughly shuffle their deck before giving it back to them. And even if I don't suspect anything, I always shuffle instead of cut, even in the middle of a game. Just like periodically checking cards in hand against how many cards they should have at any given point, it's a good practice to get into to avoid shenanigans.
Edit:
As far as I know, what the guy described (trying to manascrew someone who mana-weaved) is actually against tournament rules.
Yes, that's why I called him out on it.
I meant i was the one that brought it to your attention that he was mana-weaving and some other stuff. Not that i was the one who stacked a deck against you. The whole moron thing was my failed attempt at self deprecating humor.
If i remember correctly i warned Mink prior to playing the guy and you happened to be part of the conversation. When i had played the guy in the first round of top 8 i witnessed him both mana-weave and weave his sideboard cards. Then without shuffling presented me the deck. I figured that since it was kinda of a casual event i would just shuffle up is deck and let him know that what he did is against the rules. I just figured he didn't know. After the round I let Mink know to watch out and possible call a judge if he did it again. I don't know what happened past that point since i left prior to them playing.
Well it's not hearsay. It's my eyewitness account.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
It's a lot easier to stack your deck if you do it that way (e.g. a 60-card deck being shuffled into 4, 5, or 6 piles). Doing it in 7 means you've got uneven piles, which while still abuseable if you do nothing but pile shuffling means the ease of doing so is much lower.
Would you riffle your deck in that manner? It seams to me that this could result in manascrew even in a properly randomized deck. Which is probably why it is illegal.
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I think one day they are going to have to have a judge shuffle all the decks, so the shuffle is impartial.
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If I am reading correctly all he does is just cut and riffle shuffle 4 times, which is a perfectly acceptable method of shuffling an opponent's deck. If that happens to mana screw someone who mana weaved before the round, that's what they get for mana weaving without sufficient shuffling afterward (which IS cheating).
Considering that I've played against a guy at FNM who complained about me shuffling his deck, got mana screwed game one, then proceeded to mana weave right in front of me after the round was over, I find it hard to feel bad.
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If you suspect a player of mana weaving and intentionally shuffle in such a way that you mana screw them YOU have now cheated.
If you suspect someone of cheating, call a judge. That is ALWAYS the right call.
Except that if that is your intention then you are deliberately attempting to stack your opponent's deck (i.e. cheating)
Just because you CAN stack your deck that way doesn't make it weird. I pile shuffle in piles of 5 and 6, and each time I grab a pile I side shuffle them together. Since pile shuffling isn't even randomizing unless other shuffling is involved, using numbers that divide into 60 makes sense as a means of counting your deck.
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I probably remembered it wrong. I thought that M was the one who told me that he may be cheating. Any way, I should just let that one go. I've learned from it.
@heroicraptor - I actually didn't know that you can't shuffle an opponent's deck in a certain way. I've had a few opponents try to mana weave their decks, I shuffled in a manner like ColonelCoo said, obviously not perfectly but close. The guy kept the hand and only played 2 lands the whole game.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)