As of unfinity certain cards from un-sets can be eternal legal
silver border is now replaced by a acorn security holo stamp
cards That don't have the acorn on commons/uncommons, or is the classic oval security holo stamp on rares/mythics will be eternal legal. (Aka commander legal)
So with this I realized if they ever reprint cards from unsets they will be like this now.
so which brings to what cards could be reprinted with the acorn symbol missing/oval holo stamp in the future (become eternal legal)
If you read the article Rosewater put out, cards were not sorted into eternal formats because they already follow the rules and there was no reason to make them "silver-bordered" other than flavor. If we are talking about what cards become legal, we are very much looking at cards like Blast from the past, Old Fogey, and Crow Storm, not cards that would force larger changes on the comprehensive rules or make "black-bordered magic" care about things it does not already track (note that tracking things that aren't normally tracked like rarity/art/watermarks/collector numbers/etc was one of the things that Rosewater specifically identified as a specifically "silver-bordered" ability).
1. Cards with multiple mechanical versions (Everythingamajig and the like) are unlikely to see reprints as it limits the ability to recognize cards at a glance. While textless cryptic command was probably a mistake, the fact that an enfranchised player could not see a card's art or immediately recognize which version is on a printed decklist unless they have memorized what Version A and Version B are has the potential to cause serious confusion if someone thinks that they are playing against a different version. It would probably cause more confusion than dryad arbor, IMO.
2. Cards like Rare-be-gone and Jester's Sombrero reference things that black-bordered MTG don't (Rarity and future games, respectively).
3. Curse of the Fire Penguin simply isn't worded properly. We may get a functional reprint but I don't see this card ever coming back.
4. I am not a judge but I believe that Animate Library the type of card that, while totally grokable, would need some changes to the comprehensive rules to actually work as intended.
5. Also, remember that functional reprints exist. As most Un-cards come with a silly flavor, there are few opportunities to directly reprint them and there is a better chance of using those "silly reprint" slots for a card that could not be reprinted in any set. I think that barren glory harms the chance of The Cheese Stands Alone seeing a reprint and that body of research makes Animate Library less likely.
6. Uktabi Kong is based on a sex joke (the background monkeys are the same from ukabi orangutan). Mechanically okay but unlikely to come over except as a functional reprint.
7. Mana Screw leads to terrible game states where Zyndrsplt/Okaun decks can't demonstrate infinite coinflips (as you could with Frenetic Efreet) and instead need to flip coin after coin to see if they somehow get unlucky and fizzle out. This line of play would be about as much fun as one of the old second sunrise decks, except that combo that may fizzle out is holding 3 players hostage... and you can start again next turn if you whiff.
As for my own thoughts of what is possible... Gerrymandering makes sense even though it is out of color pie and the effect seems fairly costed without much need to reflavor. I could see it coming back in a commander deck or supplemental set where the color pie is a bit less strict. The fact that it lets you float all mana beyond the first three and get a bunch of untapped lands early harvest style is fairly powerful, however. Goblin Bookie would be a fairly easy reprint. This is one of the most likely ones, in my opinion. Goblin Tutor Is probably fine. I think that it's a bit less likely as rolling a 2 is useless in commander (where it would probably see the most play) but there's nothing mechanically wrong with it. Organ Harvest is surprisingly okay. Could see it being reprinted in another battlebond-esque set if we ever get one. Blast From the Past Would need to be reprinted in a fairly funky way but I could see it appearing at uncommon in a masters set or Horizon set one day. Probably wouldn't be too exciting. Old Fogey Could probably come back as well, though I have no clue how wizards would print it. Crow Storm would be a mistake by any measure but they tried a smaller version in green so anything is possible.
Mana Screw leads to terrible game states where Zyndrsplt/Okaun decks can't demonstrate infinite coinflips
From a practical viewpoint you don't need many coin flips in order to win (especially if you plan to win with Okaun), also it's not very different from Mana Clash another card that similarly to Mana Screw can randomly require just few flips or dozens before it fizzle out. I can see why they would never do this in standard, but eternal formats can handle a single card like this. From direct experience I can tell you that 50% to fizzle it's really harsh (compare Mana Clash that gives you already the 75% of chances to continue after each coin flip), so you won't waste that much time usually each time you use it.
Mana Screw leads to terrible game states where Zyndrsplt/Okaun decks can't demonstrate infinite coinflips
From a practical viewpoint you don't need many coin flips in order to win (especially if you plan to win with Okaun), also it's not very different from Mana Clash another card that similarly to Mana Screw can randomly require just few flips or dozens before it fizzle out. I can see why they would never do this in standard, but eternal formats can handle a single card like this. From direct experience I can tell you that 50% to fizzle it's really harsh (compare Mana Clash that gives you already the 75% of chances to continue after each coin flip), so you won't waste that much time usually each time you use it.
It’s not 50% chance to fail, though. It’s a separate 50% chance to fizzle for each mana you sink into it. While mana clash will get you more flips for a single mana, the fact that you can keep sinking mana into this thing to get more and more chances to go the distance is what makes this card miserable.
While mana clash will get you more flips for a single mana, the fact that you can keep sinking mana into this thing to get more and more chances to go the distance is what makes this card miserable.
What is your experience with this card? Did you ever played this card with or against or you're just going hypotethical? I do and did regularly for years, because I allow silver border in my groups and most of the times mana screw could be a little annoying, but really, totally manageable time-wise, there's so much worse around in terms of time-consuming. Oh, also most of the times you use the mana screw just to get a single extra mana or 2 to cast a spell, it's actually rare you even manage to do something with the generals since the opponents will usually try to screw you since we're not in magical christmas land but an actual edh game.
I'll bow to your superior experience as this is hypothetical.
I will state that I am referring to a combo version of the deck that basically uses basically no actual coin flipping other than Frenetic Efreet to draw your entire deck before slamming down Thassa's Oracle off of electrodominance with free counterspells as backup, however. In that specific environment, Mana Screw is the second-most efficient "coin flip engine" as far as ability to guarantee a large number of coin flips, to the point where I'd find space for it in an optimized list.
Saying all of that out loud, though, Mana Screw being annoying in that one specific situation doesn't seem like a strong reason to not ever bring it in.
If you read the article Rosewater put out, cards were not sorted into eternal formats because they already follow the rules and there was no reason to make them "silver-bordered" other than flavor. If we are talking about what cards become legal, we are very much looking at cards like Blast from the past, Old Fogey, and Crow Storm, not cards that would force larger changes on the comprehensive rules or make "black-bordered magic" care about things it does not already track (note that tracking things that aren't normally tracked like rarity/art/watermarks/collector numbers/etc was one of the things that Rosewater specifically identified as a specifically "silver-bordered" ability).
1. Cards with multiple mechanical versions (Everythingamajig and the like) are unlikely to see reprints as it limits the ability to recognize cards at a glance. While textless cryptic command was probably a mistake, the fact that an enfranchised player could not see a card's art or immediately recognize which version is on a printed decklist unless they have memorized what Version A and Version B are has the potential to cause serious confusion if someone thinks that they are playing against a different version. It would probably cause more confusion than dryad arbor, IMO.
2. Cards like Rare-be-gone and Jester's Sombrero reference things that black-bordered MTG don't (Rarity and future games, respectively).
3. Curse of the Fire Penguin simply isn't worded properly. We may get a functional reprint but I don't see this card ever coming back.
4. I am not a judge but I believe that Animate Library the type of card that, while totally grokable, would need some changes to the comprehensive rules to actually work as intended.
5. Also, remember that functional reprints exist. As most Un-cards come with a silly flavor, there are few opportunities to directly reprint them and there is a better chance of using those "silly reprint" slots for a card that could not be reprinted in any set. I think that barren glory harms the chance of The Cheese Stands Alone seeing a reprint and that body of research makes Animate Library less likely.
6. Uktabi Kong is based on a sex joke (the background monkeys are the same from ukabi orangutan). Mechanically okay but unlikely to come over except as a functional reprint.
7. Mana Screw leads to terrible game states where Zyndrsplt/Okaun decks can't demonstrate infinite coinflips (as you could with Frenetic Efreet) and instead need to flip coin after coin to see if they somehow get unlucky and fizzle out. This line of play would be about as much fun as one of the old second sunrise decks, except that combo that may fizzle out is holding 3 players hostage... and you can start again next turn if you whiff.
As for my own thoughts of what is possible... Gerrymandering makes sense even though it is out of color pie and the effect seems fairly costed without much need to reflavor. I could see it coming back in a commander deck or supplemental set where the color pie is a bit less strict. The fact that it lets you float all mana beyond the first three and get a bunch of untapped lands early harvest style is fairly powerful, however. Goblin Bookie would be a fairly easy reprint. This is one of the most likely ones, in my opinion. Goblin Tutor Is probably fine. I think that it's a bit less likely as rolling a 2 is useless in commander (where it would probably see the most play) but there's nothing mechanically wrong with it. Organ Harvest is surprisingly okay. Could see it being reprinted in another battlebond-esque set if we ever get one. Blast From the Past Would need to be reprinted in a fairly funky way but I could see it appearing at uncommon in a masters set or Horizon set one day. Probably wouldn't be too exciting. Old Fogey Could probably come back as well, though I have no clue how wizards would print it. Crow Storm would be a mistake by any measure but they tried a smaller version in green so anything is possible.
well to remind on mana screw and that’s Tavern Scoundrel is a better version of it (no mana needed and it’s treasure) so the screw is easily just fine
If you read the article Rosewater put out, cards were not sorted into eternal formats because they already follow the rules and there was no reason to make them "silver-bordered" other than flavor. If we are talking about what cards become legal, we are very much looking at cards like Blast from the past, Old Fogey, and Crow Storm, not cards that would force larger changes on the comprehensive rules or make "black-bordered magic" care about things it does not already track (note that tracking things that aren't normally tracked like rarity/art/watermarks/collector numbers/etc was one of the things that Rosewater specifically identified as a specifically "silver-bordered" ability).
1. Cards with multiple mechanical versions (Everythingamajig and the like) are unlikely to see reprints as it limits the ability to recognize cards at a glance. While textless cryptic command was probably a mistake, the fact that an enfranchised player could not see a card's art or immediately recognize which version is on a printed decklist unless they have memorized what Version A and Version B are has the potential to cause serious confusion if someone thinks that they are playing against a different version. It would probably cause more confusion than dryad arbor, IMO.
2. Cards like Rare-be-gone and Jester's Sombrero reference things that black-bordered MTG don't (Rarity and future games, respectively).
3. Curse of the Fire Penguin simply isn't worded properly. We may get a functional reprint but I don't see this card ever coming back.
4. I am not a judge but I believe that Animate Library the type of card that, while totally grokable, would need some changes to the comprehensive rules to actually work as intended.
5. Also, remember that functional reprints exist. As most Un-cards come with a silly flavor, there are few opportunities to directly reprint them and there is a better chance of using those "silly reprint" slots for a card that could not be reprinted in any set. I think that barren glory harms the chance of The Cheese Stands Alone seeing a reprint and that body of research makes Animate Library less likely.
6. Uktabi Kong is based on a sex joke (the background monkeys are the same from ukabi orangutan). Mechanically okay but unlikely to come over except as a functional reprint.
7. Mana Screw leads to terrible game states where Zyndrsplt/Okaun decks can't demonstrate infinite coinflips (as you could with Frenetic Efreet) and instead need to flip coin after coin to see if they somehow get unlucky and fizzle out. This line of play would be about as much fun as one of the old second sunrise decks, except that combo that may fizzle out is holding 3 players hostage... and you can start again next turn if you whiff.
As for my own thoughts of what is possible... Gerrymandering makes sense even though it is out of color pie and the effect seems fairly costed without much need to reflavor. I could see it coming back in a commander deck or supplemental set where the color pie is a bit less strict. The fact that it lets you float all mana beyond the first three and get a bunch of untapped lands early harvest style is fairly powerful, however. Goblin Bookie would be a fairly easy reprint. This is one of the most likely ones, in my opinion. Goblin Tutor Is probably fine. I think that it's a bit less likely as rolling a 2 is useless in commander (where it would probably see the most play) but there's nothing mechanically wrong with it. Organ Harvest is surprisingly okay. Could see it being reprinted in another battlebond-esque set if we ever get one. Blast From the Past Would need to be reprinted in a fairly funky way but I could see it appearing at uncommon in a masters set or Horizon set one day. Probably wouldn't be too exciting. Old Fogey Could probably come back as well, though I have no clue how wizards would print it. Crow Storm would be a mistake by any measure but they tried a smaller version in green so anything is possible.
well to remind on mana screw and that’s Tavern Scoundrel is a better version of it (no mana needed and it’s treasure) so the screw is easily just fine
Again, my only problem with mana screw is in cases where you want to pump out 60+ coin flips and the mana generated is all but irrelevant (such as if you are trying to draw your entire deck with Zndrsplt before dropping thoracle, which I feel is the optimized version of that deck). I have no worries about this card as a mana generator, only as a coin flip generator.
Tavern scoundrel gives you one coin flip each turn.
Mana clash gives you somewhere in the neighborhood around 4 (though this number is subject to variance).
Frenetic Efreet can give you 1000 free coin flips and let you combo off instantly.
For mana screw, you pay one mana and have a 50% chance of getting 2 more coin flips, at which point there is a 75% chance of continuing that coin flipping with an additional 2 coin flipping. If your luck is terrible, you can just spend one mana and repeat the entire process. I can imagine the agony of someone sinking all of the mana from a mana geyser into flipping as much coins as possible with Zndrsplt on the table, not being able to flip all of the coins at once because each successful flip gets you more mana for more flips (and you’d logically want to spend that new colorless mana on flips before your red mana from the geyser) and not being able to guarantee whether you will dig to the efreet (or another combo piece) successfully or deck yourself successfully off of just the screw or if you will get unlucky and just flip a bunch of bad flips one after another.
That, to me, is hell.
To repeat, though, I don’t think most coin flip decks work like this and that one corner case doesn’t seem like enough to be worth banning a card.
I figure it would be pretty easy for some guy to make a phone app that does the Mana Screw thing for you and saves time, and I don't expect these cards to come to MTGO but if they did, you have to perform repeated operations manually anyway there. (Justice, tbh.)
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As of unfinity certain cards from un-sets can be eternal legal
silver border is now replaced by a acorn security holo stamp
cards That don't have the acorn on commons/uncommons, or is the classic oval security holo stamp on rares/mythics will be eternal legal. (Aka commander legal)
So with this I realized if they ever reprint cards from unsets they will be like this now.
so which brings to what cards could be reprinted with the acorn symbol missing/oval holo stamp in the future (become eternal legal)
What are some of your speculations or Hopes?
My Friend Code is: 0146-9645-8893
Some versions of Garbage Elemental
Goblin Tutor
Jester's Sombrero
Goblin Bookie, but he needs an oracle update
Ricochet
Gerrymandering
Hungry Hungry Heifer
Organ Harvest
Mana Screw
Form of the Squirrel
Uktabi Kong
Rare-B-Gone
Curse of the Fire Penguin
Blast from the Past
World-Bottling Kit
__________
Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug
Goblin Secret Agent
1. Cards with multiple mechanical versions (Everythingamajig and the like) are unlikely to see reprints as it limits the ability to recognize cards at a glance. While textless cryptic command was probably a mistake, the fact that an enfranchised player could not see a card's art or immediately recognize which version is on a printed decklist unless they have memorized what Version A and Version B are has the potential to cause serious confusion if someone thinks that they are playing against a different version. It would probably cause more confusion than dryad arbor, IMO.
2. Cards like Rare-be-gone and Jester's Sombrero reference things that black-bordered MTG don't (Rarity and future games, respectively).
3. Curse of the Fire Penguin simply isn't worded properly. We may get a functional reprint but I don't see this card ever coming back.
4. I am not a judge but I believe that Animate Library the type of card that, while totally grokable, would need some changes to the comprehensive rules to actually work as intended.
5. Also, remember that functional reprints exist. As most Un-cards come with a silly flavor, there are few opportunities to directly reprint them and there is a better chance of using those "silly reprint" slots for a card that could not be reprinted in any set. I think that barren glory harms the chance of The Cheese Stands Alone seeing a reprint and that body of research makes Animate Library less likely.
6. Uktabi Kong is based on a sex joke (the background monkeys are the same from ukabi orangutan). Mechanically okay but unlikely to come over except as a functional reprint.
7. Mana Screw leads to terrible game states where Zyndrsplt/Okaun decks can't demonstrate infinite coinflips (as you could with Frenetic Efreet) and instead need to flip coin after coin to see if they somehow get unlucky and fizzle out. This line of play would be about as much fun as one of the old second sunrise decks, except that combo that may fizzle out is holding 3 players hostage... and you can start again next turn if you whiff.
As for my own thoughts of what is possible...
Gerrymandering makes sense even though it is out of color pie and the effect seems fairly costed without much need to reflavor. I could see it coming back in a commander deck or supplemental set where the color pie is a bit less strict. The fact that it lets you float all mana beyond the first three and get a bunch of untapped lands early harvest style is fairly powerful, however.
Goblin Bookie would be a fairly easy reprint. This is one of the most likely ones, in my opinion.
Goblin Tutor Is probably fine. I think that it's a bit less likely as rolling a 2 is useless in commander (where it would probably see the most play) but there's nothing mechanically wrong with it.
Organ Harvest is surprisingly okay. Could see it being reprinted in another battlebond-esque set if we ever get one.
Blast From the Past Would need to be reprinted in a fairly funky way but I could see it appearing at uncommon in a masters set or Horizon set one day. Probably wouldn't be too exciting.
Old Fogey Could probably come back as well, though I have no clue how wizards would print it.
Crow Storm would be a mistake by any measure but they tried a smaller version in green so anything is possible.
From a practical viewpoint you don't need many coin flips in order to win (especially if you plan to win with Okaun), also it's not very different from Mana Clash another card that similarly to Mana Screw can randomly require just few flips or dozens before it fizzle out. I can see why they would never do this in standard, but eternal formats can handle a single card like this. From direct experience I can tell you that 50% to fizzle it's really harsh (compare Mana Clash that gives you already the 75% of chances to continue after each coin flip), so you won't waste that much time usually each time you use it.
It’s not 50% chance to fail, though. It’s a separate 50% chance to fizzle for each mana you sink into it. While mana clash will get you more flips for a single mana, the fact that you can keep sinking mana into this thing to get more and more chances to go the distance is what makes this card miserable.
LOL Gerrymandering would be pretty crazy.
I'll bow to your superior experience as this is hypothetical.
I will state that I am referring to a combo version of the deck that basically uses basically no actual coin flipping other than Frenetic Efreet to draw your entire deck before slamming down Thassa's Oracle off of electrodominance with free counterspells as backup, however. In that specific environment, Mana Screw is the second-most efficient "coin flip engine" as far as ability to guarantee a large number of coin flips, to the point where I'd find space for it in an optimized list.
Saying all of that out loud, though, Mana Screw being annoying in that one specific situation doesn't seem like a strong reason to not ever bring it in.
well to remind on mana screw and that’s Tavern Scoundrel is a better version of it (no mana needed and it’s treasure) so the screw is easily just fine
Again, my only problem with mana screw is in cases where you want to pump out 60+ coin flips and the mana generated is all but irrelevant (such as if you are trying to draw your entire deck with Zndrsplt before dropping thoracle, which I feel is the optimized version of that deck). I have no worries about this card as a mana generator, only as a coin flip generator.
Tavern scoundrel gives you one coin flip each turn.
Mana clash gives you somewhere in the neighborhood around 4 (though this number is subject to variance).
Frenetic Efreet can give you 1000 free coin flips and let you combo off instantly.
For mana screw, you pay one mana and have a 50% chance of getting 2 more coin flips, at which point there is a 75% chance of continuing that coin flipping with an additional 2 coin flipping. If your luck is terrible, you can just spend one mana and repeat the entire process. I can imagine the agony of someone sinking all of the mana from a mana geyser into flipping as much coins as possible with Zndrsplt on the table, not being able to flip all of the coins at once because each successful flip gets you more mana for more flips (and you’d logically want to spend that new colorless mana on flips before your red mana from the geyser) and not being able to guarantee whether you will dig to the efreet (or another combo piece) successfully or deck yourself successfully off of just the screw or if you will get unlucky and just flip a bunch of bad flips one after another.
That, to me, is hell.
To repeat, though, I don’t think most coin flip decks work like this and that one corner case doesn’t seem like enough to be worth banning a card.