parc2 asked: is it possible for multiple creatures to hold a spark? such that we might see a saproling swarm as a planeswalker? (flavor wise, it'd probably be similar to the tetravus abilities with an ult)....if not, how about as squirrels in an un set?
It is theoretically possible.
Of course, it being theoretically possible doesn't mean it will happen, but it certainly opens up some interesting ideas. A planeswalking Sliver hive maybe?
People have been clamoring for a sliver planeswalker for a long time, nearly as long as there have been planeswalkers. So I'd say it is going to happen, sooner or later. Personally I just hope it comes in a commander product with the "~ Can be your commander" line.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
If it is not a human or a human looking characters forget
Ysan the bard could become a walker that uses slivers thought
In all seriousness if they ever do it, they will probably use shandalarian sliver design so people can relate more to it.
In all seriousness if they ever do it, they will probably use shandalarian sliver design so people can relate more to it.
Don't think so, the almighty market research has shown they are unpopular. And it would be pretty hard to relate to a swarm intelligence anyway, so going with the original design could also serve to accent its inhumanity.
* M15 Sliver are humanoid looking (check)
* Some sliver are sentient and intelligent like the Queen (so check again)
* They are not mana constructs so the can hold a spark (check)
I can imagine a planeswalking humanoid looking Queen moving from plain to plain and birthing new hives into existence. Also a planeswalker centered around the theme of motherhood sound interesting.
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Drop your knees to the floor
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
If it is not a human or a human looking characters forget
Ysan the bard could become a walker that uses slivers thought
In all seriousness if they ever do it, they will probably use shandalarian sliver design so people can relate more to it.
The Shandalarian Sliver design was a mistake, and WotC knows it after the *****storm that happened when they were printed. It was enough of a controversy that it harmed the sales of the two sets they were in enough that they eventually cancelled the core sets for a while.
As for planeswalkers being humanoid: We have several dragon planeswalkers, two of which have multiple cards (the others have zero cards so far) and two known Sphinx planeswalkers (one with a card). More non-humanoid planeswalkers is an inevitability because MaRo and R&D know that people want them. They are just a rare treat, because most people who play the game are humanoid. In the mtg lore it can be easily explained because humanoids are so much more common than non-humanoid sapients, therefore logically there would be more humanoid planeswalkers than non-humanoid ones.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
If it is not a human or a human looking characters forget
Ysan the bard could become a walker that uses slivers thought
In all seriousness if they ever do it, they will probably use shandalarian sliver design so people can relate more to it.
The Shandalarian Sliver design was a mistake, and WotC knows it after the *****storm that happened when they were printed. It was enough of a controversy that it harmed the sales of the two sets they were in enough that they eventually cancelled the core sets for a while.
As for planeswalkers being humanoid: We have several dragon planeswalkers, two of which have multiple cards (the others have zero cards so far) and two known Sphinx planeswalkers (one with a card). More non-humanoid planeswalkers is an inevitability because MaRo and R&D know that people want them. They are just a rare treat, because most people who play the game are humanoid. In the mtg lore it can be easily explained because humanoids are so much more common than non-humanoid sapients, therefore logically there would be more humanoid planeswalkers than non-humanoid ones.
It is almost a joke to think that every walker they would make will be humanoid looking but it looks more and more right(and just saying Bolas and Ugin can be classified both as humanoid looking dragons). Ye we have sphinx walkers, but none with a planeswalker card. We have 3 dragon planeswalkers with cards counting the heroes of the realm U/R dragon walker. Aside from those rare cases all the others are human looking humanoids being either gorgon, elf, satyr, moonfolk etc... I guess we have to be greatfull that Ajani is a main character
When they redesigned the slivers to look more humanoid the backlash was great cause it put in check the theory of humanoid is good no humanoid is not liked, but idk if they trashed the theory or just adapted it to main characters because some menbers of the R&D, and because of that, part of the community think that main character should all be relatable in apparence to real people and ethinic groups (and i don't think it is bad, in reality it is great) but this imo leaves no roon for unorthodoxal characters to appear and shine in the game.
If they have the balls to make a sliver planeswalker that is not a humanoid looking sliver sure i will be happy but i just can't see this possibility.
The Art Director before Brady was fired because he forced a lot of changes that were widely disliked (case in point, Eight edition Tundra Wolves and the controversial "there are no grizzly bears/real animals in fantasy".)
The sliver art change was done with good intentions, but missed the reality that the original slivers had a very distinct look that was part of their identity that made them easily recognizable as slivers. Although they didn't have the time to fix all of it, they did manage to fix the art for the two rare sliver related cards in M15 to look like slivers, but by then the damage was already done, and it was too little, too late. If slivers return (and they will return), it is extremely likely that they will look like actual slivers instead of alien dogs and/or predators. They'll still have the "only affects your slivers" share ability though, which honestly was a good change, because it doesn't make sense for rival hive minds to share abilities.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
IIRC the core set slivers change was to give them more variety since the original design didn't give much variation and the new slivers thing is they are made up of armor like parts that can move and shift around. Nothing at all about trying to make them more human-like, heck half the neo-slivers are barley humanoid.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
IIRC the core set slivers change was to give them more variety since the original design didn't give much variation and the new slivers thing is they are made up of armor like parts that can move and shift around. Nothing at all about trying to make them more human-like, heck half the neo-slivers are barley humanoid.
As I said, the reasons for the change was understandable, it was just that it took away what made the slivers recognizable and distinctive, which is why it was met with such resistance and loathing. Bottom line, it hurt sales, so when slivers return, expect them to look closer to the originals.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
If it is not a human or a human looking characters forget
Ysan the bard could become a walker that uses slivers thought
In all seriousness if they ever do it, they will probably use shandalarian sliver design so people can relate more to it.
The Shandalarian Sliver design was a mistake, and WotC knows it after the *****storm that happened when they were printed. It was enough of a controversy that it harmed the sales of the two sets they were in enough that they eventually cancelled the core sets for a while.
As for planeswalkers being humanoid: We have several dragon planeswalkers, two of which have multiple cards (the others have zero cards so far) and two known Sphinx planeswalkers (one with a card). More non-humanoid planeswalkers is an inevitability because MaRo and R&D know that people want them. They are just a rare treat, because most people who play the game are humanoid. In the mtg lore it can be easily explained because humanoids are so much more common than non-humanoid sapients, therefore logically there would be more humanoid planeswalkers than non-humanoid ones.
It is almost a joke to think that every walker they would make will be humanoid looking but it looks more and more right(and just saying Bolas and Ugin can be classified both as humanoid looking dragons). Ye we have sphinx walkers, but none with a planeswalker card. We have 3 dragon planeswalkers with cards counting the heroes of the realm U/R dragon walker. Aside from those rare cases all the others are human looking humanoids being either gorgon, elf, satyr, moonfolk etc... I guess we have to be greatfull that Ajani is a main character
When they redesigned the slivers to look more humanoid the backlash was great cause it put in check the theory of humanoid is good no humanoid is not liked, but idk if they trashed the theory or just adapted it to main characters because some menbers of the R&D, and because of that, part of the community think that main character should all be relatable in apparence to real people and ethinic groups (and i don't think it is bad, in reality it is great) but this imo leaves no roon for unorthodoxal characters to appear and shine in the game.
If they have the balls to make a sliver planeswalker that is not a humanoid looking sliver sure i will be happy but i just can't see this possibility.
Come to think of it, I'm starting to fear that if they ever actually make a swarm planeswalker, it's going to be something like a swarm of bugs that takes on humanoid shape. Such creatures are a pretty common fantasy trope and it doesn't stray that far from regular humanoid. If they decide to go all in on the idea and ditch the humanoid shape and possibly even make the swarm comprised of bigger and more discrete parts (like a Sliver hive), I would be pleasantly surprised.
If it is not a human or a human looking characters forget
Ysan the bard could become a walker that uses slivers thought
In all seriousness if they ever do it, they will probably use shandalarian sliver design so people can relate more to it.
The Shandalarian Sliver design was a mistake, and WotC knows it after the *****storm that happened when they were printed. It was enough of a controversy that it harmed the sales of the two sets they were in enough that they eventually cancelled the core sets for a while.
As for planeswalkers being humanoid: We have several dragon planeswalkers, two of which have multiple cards (the others have zero cards so far) and two known Sphinx planeswalkers (one with a card). More non-humanoid planeswalkers is an inevitability because MaRo and R&D know that people want them. They are just a rare treat, because most people who play the game are humanoid. In the mtg lore it can be easily explained because humanoids are so much more common than non-humanoid sapients, therefore logically there would be more humanoid planeswalkers than non-humanoid ones.
It is almost a joke to think that every walker they would make will be humanoid looking but it looks more and more right(and just saying Bolas and Ugin can be classified both as humanoid looking dragons). Ye we have sphinx walkers, but none with a planeswalker card. We have 3 dragon planeswalkers with cards counting the heroes of the realm U/R dragon walker. Aside from those rare cases all the others are human looking humanoids being either gorgon, elf, satyr, moonfolk etc... I guess we have to be greatfull that Ajani is a main character
When they redesigned the slivers to look more humanoid the backlash was great cause it put in check the theory of humanoid is good no humanoid is not liked, but idk if they trashed the theory or just adapted it to main characters because some menbers of the R&D, and because of that, part of the community think that main character should all be relatable in apparence to real people and ethinic groups (and i don't think it is bad, in reality it is great) but this imo leaves no roon for unorthodoxal characters to appear and shine in the game.
If they have the balls to make a sliver planeswalker that is not a humanoid looking sliver sure i will be happy but i just can't see this possibility.
Come to think of it, I'm starting to fear that if they ever actually make a swarm planeswalker, it's going to be something like a swarm of bugs that takes on humanoid shape. Such creatures are a pretty common fantasy trope and it doesn't stray that far from regular humanoid. If they decide to go all in on the idea and ditch the humanoid shape and possibly even make the swarm comprised of bigger and more discrete parts (like a Sliver hive), I would be pleasantly surprised.
Why not both? As in more than one Swarm planeswalker. WotC are keenly aware that people want a sliver planeswalker, and if that means it has to be an entire hive, then so be it.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I think humanoid Slivers could be to "lower form" Slivers what Leonin are to Cats. They could be more intelligent and potentially even self-aware while retaining the ability to share information via hive mind connection. And thus a WUBRG Sliver planeswalker could be a humanoid shown to be capable of commanding "lower form" Slivers. They could produce a Sliver token, exile a creature and replace it with a Sliver clone you control, and maybe even emulate Gideon by being a 7/7 Sliver creature that grants indestructible to Slivers you control during your turn.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
It's kind of ironic, because I'm all for more non-humanoid characters, but to be honest, for slivers a non-sliver planeswalker studying/protecting/whatever slivers would make more sense. They'd still have sliver-related abilities, like fetching slivers and producing tokens, and they could summon slivers in a fight, but they wouldn't be a sliver themselves.
For one, slivers are all defined by their ability to share abilities. A planeswalker that is a sliver but doesn't get the sliver abilities would feel a bit off. Plus, somewhat less importantly but still, slivers seem to be a very invasive species, only kept in check on Rath by Volrath. Having a planeswalking hive or brooding sliver out and about in the multiverse sounds a little like another multiversal crisis.
They'll still have the "only affects your slivers" share ability though, which honestly was a good change, because it doesn't make sense for rival hive minds to share abilities.
I mean, I get that and I understand what Wizards was trying to do. But one goal was to reduce complexity in sliver mirror matches. The problem is, by changing how an existing tribe works, they've made it even MORE complicated. Slivers are most popular in the casual crowd and casual decks tend to have cards from all over. Having a mirror match with cards both from old and new slivers makes the whole thing several magnitudes worse, complexity wise.
I suppose this is a situation where you can only lose, but still, I think it was a bit of a mistake to switch to "you control" abilities for slivers. But that's not a hill I want to die on. (Sliver appearance is though. )
IIRC the core set slivers change was to give them more variety since the original design didn't give much variation and the new slivers thing is they are made up of armor like parts that can move and shift around. Nothing at all about trying to make them more human-like, heck half the neo-slivers are barley humanoid.
The thing is, while Rathi/Dominarian slivers have a distinct anatomy, you can easily make new slivers by just following the general leitmotifs that slivers established. Slivers are serpentine (more long than wide and tall), have long thin tentacles and narrow sharp shapes (head, claws and barbs at the tip of their tails). Put that all together and you can deviate a lot from the established sliver anatomy while still have something distinctly sliver.
WotC artistic direction got destroyed over the neoslivers, which is why they are back looking like they're supposed to.
As for the Slivers on Rath. The Evincar prior to Volrath brought them there to experiment upon to try and make them into weapons for the Phyrexians. Volrath realized it was a foolish endeavor and kept them as glorified guard dogs. He didn't really expect the sliver hive to be intelligent and capable of empathy, because the smaller slivers he interacted with were on an individual level about as intelligent as dogs.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I think it's entirely feasible to have a planeswalker with a feral mindset who finds a way to trigger the spark and then has difficulty controlling where and when it planeswalks. That could be an interesting side story bit.
I could totally see something like Ilharg getting something like that: A wild, feral, ferocious boar who suddenly can traverse the multiverse but doesn't know how or when it can do it.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I had been recently thinking about a spider walker or insect based walker along the lines of D'vorah from Mortal Kombats 10 and 11. Her concept is a living hive in one body that can also summon other creepy crawlies to help in combat. Her fighting abilities also draw on other insect motifs like wasp wings to fly, venomous fangs and stingers, and additional legs that function like Doc Ock arms. She does have a humanoid body, but Creative could easily adapt that to be more insect or spider like.
I think it's entirely feasible to have a planeswalker with a feral mindset who finds a way to trigger the spark and then has difficulty controlling where and when it planeswalks. That could be an interesting side story bit.
I could totally see something like Ilharg getting something like that: A wild, feral, ferocious boar who suddenly can traverse the multiverse but doesn't know how or when it can do it.
'buster
Unfortunately, having a spark requires a certain level of sapience that most boars (and other animals) are unable to reach. Would be cool though.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
On the slivers subjet i got a taste lately on thinking about a walker (maybe old walker) using and summoning Slivers.
For the Swarm walker i guess Wren and Six is the closest we have today. Maybe they could make a group of walkers that can only walker while they are together or something in those lines. A walker that is a collective of "mindless" things is less likely i think
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Of course, it being theoretically possible doesn't mean it will happen, but it certainly opens up some interesting ideas. A planeswalking Sliver hive maybe?
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Ysan the bard could become a walker that uses slivers thought
In all seriousness if they ever do it, they will probably use shandalarian sliver design so people can relate more to it.
Don't think so, the almighty market research has shown they are unpopular. And it would be pretty hard to relate to a swarm intelligence anyway, so going with the original design could also serve to accent its inhumanity.
* M15 Sliver are humanoid looking (check)
* Some sliver are sentient and intelligent like the Queen (so check again)
* They are not mana constructs so the can hold a spark (check)
I can imagine a planeswalking humanoid looking Queen moving from plain to plain and birthing new hives into existence. Also a planeswalker centered around the theme of motherhood sound interesting.
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
The Shandalarian Sliver design was a mistake, and WotC knows it after the *****storm that happened when they were printed. It was enough of a controversy that it harmed the sales of the two sets they were in enough that they eventually cancelled the core sets for a while.
As for planeswalkers being humanoid: We have several dragon planeswalkers, two of which have multiple cards (the others have zero cards so far) and two known Sphinx planeswalkers (one with a card). More non-humanoid planeswalkers is an inevitability because MaRo and R&D know that people want them. They are just a rare treat, because most people who play the game are humanoid. In the mtg lore it can be easily explained because humanoids are so much more common than non-humanoid sapients, therefore logically there would be more humanoid planeswalkers than non-humanoid ones.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
It is almost a joke to think that every walker they would make will be humanoid looking but it looks more and more right(and just saying Bolas and Ugin can be classified both as humanoid looking dragons). Ye we have sphinx walkers, but none with a planeswalker card. We have 3 dragon planeswalkers with cards counting the heroes of the realm U/R dragon walker. Aside from those rare cases all the others are human looking humanoids being either gorgon, elf, satyr, moonfolk etc... I guess we have to be greatfull that Ajani is a main character
When they redesigned the slivers to look more humanoid the backlash was great cause it put in check the theory of humanoid is good no humanoid is not liked, but idk if they trashed the theory or just adapted it to main characters because some menbers of the R&D, and because of that, part of the community think that main character should all be relatable in apparence to real people and ethinic groups (and i don't think it is bad, in reality it is great) but this imo leaves no roon for unorthodoxal characters to appear and shine in the game.
If they have the balls to make a sliver planeswalker that is not a humanoid looking sliver sure i will be happy but i just can't see this possibility.
The sliver art change was done with good intentions, but missed the reality that the original slivers had a very distinct look that was part of their identity that made them easily recognizable as slivers. Although they didn't have the time to fix all of it, they did manage to fix the art for the two rare sliver related cards in M15 to look like slivers, but by then the damage was already done, and it was too little, too late. If slivers return (and they will return), it is extremely likely that they will look like actual slivers instead of alien dogs and/or predators. They'll still have the "only affects your slivers" share ability though, which honestly was a good change, because it doesn't make sense for rival hive minds to share abilities.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
As I said, the reasons for the change was understandable, it was just that it took away what made the slivers recognizable and distinctive, which is why it was met with such resistance and loathing. Bottom line, it hurt sales, so when slivers return, expect them to look closer to the originals.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Come to think of it, I'm starting to fear that if they ever actually make a swarm planeswalker, it's going to be something like a swarm of bugs that takes on humanoid shape. Such creatures are a pretty common fantasy trope and it doesn't stray that far from regular humanoid. If they decide to go all in on the idea and ditch the humanoid shape and possibly even make the swarm comprised of bigger and more discrete parts (like a Sliver hive), I would be pleasantly surprised.
Why not both? As in more than one Swarm planeswalker. WotC are keenly aware that people want a sliver planeswalker, and if that means it has to be an entire hive, then so be it.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
For one, slivers are all defined by their ability to share abilities. A planeswalker that is a sliver but doesn't get the sliver abilities would feel a bit off. Plus, somewhat less importantly but still, slivers seem to be a very invasive species, only kept in check on Rath by Volrath. Having a planeswalking hive or brooding sliver out and about in the multiverse sounds a little like another multiversal crisis.
I mean, I get that and I understand what Wizards was trying to do. But one goal was to reduce complexity in sliver mirror matches. The problem is, by changing how an existing tribe works, they've made it even MORE complicated. Slivers are most popular in the casual crowd and casual decks tend to have cards from all over. Having a mirror match with cards both from old and new slivers makes the whole thing several magnitudes worse, complexity wise.
I suppose this is a situation where you can only lose, but still, I think it was a bit of a mistake to switch to "you control" abilities for slivers. But that's not a hill I want to die on. (Sliver appearance is though. )
The thing is, while Rathi/Dominarian slivers have a distinct anatomy, you can easily make new slivers by just following the general leitmotifs that slivers established. Slivers are serpentine (more long than wide and tall), have long thin tentacles and narrow sharp shapes (head, claws and barbs at the tip of their tails). Put that all together and you can deviate a lot from the established sliver anatomy while still have something distinctly sliver.
As for the Slivers on Rath. The Evincar prior to Volrath brought them there to experiment upon to try and make them into weapons for the Phyrexians. Volrath realized it was a foolish endeavor and kept them as glorified guard dogs. He didn't really expect the sliver hive to be intelligent and capable of empathy, because the smaller slivers he interacted with were on an individual level about as intelligent as dogs.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I could totally see something like Ilharg getting something like that: A wild, feral, ferocious boar who suddenly can traverse the multiverse but doesn't know how or when it can do it.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Unfortunately, having a spark requires a certain level of sapience that most boars (and other animals) are unable to reach. Would be cool though.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
For the Swarm walker i guess Wren and Six is the closest we have today. Maybe they could make a group of walkers that can only walker while they are together or something in those lines. A walker that is a collective of "mindless" things is less likely i think