Having just finished listening to Maro's DTW on the development of Guilds of Ravnica, I felt like it's worth throwing out a thread for speculation regarding Ravnica Allegiance.
Planeswalkers: Three Planeswalkers taking over three of the Guilds with some connection/loyal to Bolas. With information on Vraska's murder of Isperia, it's almost certain that Azorius is one of the Bolas Guilds, and almost certain to feature Dovin Baan. We've seen Domri Rade on flavor text, and Kaya on artwork from the novels, so those are also more plausible guesses.
The focus of Maro's DTW were the mechanics, which in Guilds of Ravnica were developed to play well with the adjacent Guilds. So we should expect the following three-color archetypes in draft to have some synergy:
In the last two visits to Ravnica, Simic has received mechanics that use +1/+1 counters. It seems safe to bet that we'll see +1/+1 counters in Simic again, and that gives us a starting point for analyzing the other Guilds.
Temur: Simic -> Gruul. In looking back at the Ravnica mechanics, Rosewater gives Bloodthirst a 3 on the Storm Scale. It's likely to make a comeback eventually and it involves +1/+1 counters. We already saw Convoke, also a 3 on the Storm Scale, come back with Guilds of Ravnica. I'm thinking a return of Bloodthirst or something similar is very likely for Ravnica Allegiance.
Jund: Gruul -> Rakdos. So if Gruul has something like Bloodthirst, Rakdos may have something that encourages attacking. Maybe something like Raid, but it was brought back in Ixalan and that's too recent. Maybe something like Dash? Unleash could also work in making creatures bigger and pushing you into attacking since they can't do anything else.
Mardu: Rakdos -> Orzhov. Haunt was bad, but Extort is on the list of mechanics that could see a return. However it doesn't synergize well with a more aggressive archetype with Rakdos, yet Orzhov needs to be able to also link up with a more controlling archetype with Azorius. Something like Morbid could strike a balance, where Rakdos is attacking and getting into combat, and Orzhov with Azorius may lean towards a Morbid midrange value approach. Alternatively if something like Dash makes an appearance, Orzhov could care about creatures entering the battlefield. This sounds too much like the "creaturefall" that Rosewater discussed with Selesnya on his podcast. So what about a Morbid that cares about creatures leaving the battlefield, regardless of if they are just blinking, going into exile, or into the graveyard?
Esper: Orzhov -> Azorius. This is another hard one, because I suspect Azorius needs to work with the Simic's +1/+1 counters. We should expect some sort of control archetype for Azorius, but it might be worth considering the other aspect of White-Blue in draft: flyers. If we have Kaladesh's Dovin Baan taking over, might we see a subtheme of thopters? Detain could make a come back, but it's hard to see how that fits with +1/+1 counters. If Orzhov cares about creatures leaving the battlefield, with a subtheme of self-sacrifice for value, what about an artifact tokens focus with Azorius, either thopters or servos (like Fabricate)? That could create fodder for a sacrifice outlet, or overlap with Simic's +1/+1. While this doesn't scream "control" like typical White-Blue mechanics, we've seen some deviation before, like when Awaken was the White-Blue mechanic in Battle for Zendikar.
We'll start to see spoilers soon enough, but for now it's just speculation.
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----- "I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
Im hoping for the return of unleash for rakdos and extort for orzhov.
Im not too crazy about evolve for simic but wouldn't be against it either. I'm not sure what else would fit.
Didn't like bloodrush. I see something like ferocious working for gruul. It synergizes with +1/+1 counters too.
As for the azorius, i hated detain. I'm with you that it has to be something with control and artifacts. Something in between fabricate and prowess would be cool.
I didn't follow the lore of the previous ravnica blocks, so would someone be kind enough to tell me what's going on with Rakdos, Lyzolda, Borborygmos, Momir, Zegana, Vorel, Teysa, the Obzedat and any other characters i might have missed? Which ones we might see in this set?
Remember that Guild mechanics don't always directly synergize. Jump-start and Mentor don't have direct synergy, but there are creatures in Izzet colors that can benefit from Mentor, and there are Izzet spells that can raise a creature's power, thereby allowing it to Mentor a wider range of creatures. Plus the fact that the Izzet are more spell-dependent means the Boros can help patch up their primary weakness by providing more combat-efficient creatures, and the Boros' relative lack of card draw is offset by the Izzet being good at card draw.
Also remember that Dovin is not an artificer per se, he's basically a safety inspector combined with a police inspector. He can quickly identify structural flaws, both physical and hierarchical. Given the philosophy of the Consulate, Dovin likely does use artifice as a weapon when necessary, but that is largely a product of serving on Kaladesh. Upon seeing that the Azorius enforce the law with magic, it's plausible that Dovin may seek to learn their brand of law magic and use it to enforce their laws. That said, I expect next time we see him, he'll have donned the Senate's signature blue and silver as opposed to the Consulate's red.
Azorius - Will have a control focus befitting their nature as a law guild. Detain is a possible candidate for returning mechanic; it isn't flashy but gets the job done, and has untapped potential for "detain matters" effects (even something as simple as putting +1/+1 counters on creatures to synergize with Boros and quite possibly Simic). If Azorius has a healthy number of creatures with ETB effects, I think it's safe to assume Dovin will be able to bounce or flicker them.
Rakdos - Will have a suicidically aggressive focus. Unleash is possible, but so too is something like Madness. The Rakdos have had a discard focus in the past, and now they have Jump-start in GRN to further support it in Standard. RNA could feature discard outlets and costs to help enable Madness. Given the carnival or circus-esque aesthetic the Rakdos have developed, their mechanic could have something to do with performance, like my Dramatic mechanic that triggers whenever the creature enters or leaves the battlefield.
Gruul - Will focus on ramp and stomp strategies. I would suggest a more aggressive take on Outlast, but Boros' Mentor mechanic already does something similar, so the Gruul may not play with +1/+1 counters this time, at least not as a dedicated mechanical theme. Bloodrush was considered too Spiky last time. The Gruul were going to get Enrage, but the Ixalan team designed it independently and were allowed to use it instead as Ixalan preceded RNA (incidentally, the same thing happened to Ixalan as Conspiracy: Take the Crown likewise preceded Ixalan and ended up taking the Monarch mechanic from Ixalan).
Another possibility is a power matters mechanic like Ferocious. That would work well with power-boosting effects while not being such an effect itself. But Ferocious leans towards noncreature spells while Gruul wants a creature-centric mechanic. I could see the Gruul getting a mechanic that cares about attacking and fighting.
Orzhov - Either cares about life as a resource or cares about creatures entering or leaving the graveyard. It could be as simple as "When this dies, create a Spirit token", thereby allowing the creature to come back from the dead while leaving a body in the graveyard to feed Undergrowth, but Hunted Witness already did something similar. Exploit could return as the Orzhov mechanic, directly supporting Undergrowth and possibly synergizing with Rakdos. Flavorwise, the guild could care about Gold, but that would likely give it too big an advantage over other Guilds, unless it was a specific type of Gold that only produced W or B. A token that produces C would be more feasible as then it's only ramp and not fixing, but that has the drawback of not playing as well with Extort.
A different idea for Orzhov could be a mechanic where your opponents each may pay 1. For each opponent who does, you create a Gold token. For each opponent who doesn't, something else happens, such as that player losing life or sacrificing creatures. The ability could also simply do one thing if the opponent pays, and another if they don't, with the Gold token being produced by a specific Orzhov card.
Simic - Will do something themed on biology. A +1/+1 counter theme is certainly possible, but it's equally possible they try a new focus. Evolve is more likely to return than Graft. They could try something akin to Heroic that rewards casting spells targeting your own creatures. One of green's specialties is pumping its own creatures, and blue has been known to use the odd creature boost as well.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I didn't follow the lore of the previous ravnica blocks, so would someone be kind enough to tell me what's going on with Rakdos, Lyzolda, Borborygmos, Momir, Zegana, Vorel, Teysa, the Obzedat and any other characters i might have missed? Which ones we might see in this set?
Based on Guilds of Ravnica, we'll see the Bolas aligned Planeswalkers, and then one Guild leader/Guild champion, and the Guilds without a Planeswalker will have two Legendaries, one representing the Guild Leader and the other representing a number two. I think other than Isperia, all previous Guild leaders could show up again. Niv-Mizzet showed up as a card and doesn't seem to have been killed, while Vraska does appear to have gotten rid of Jarad (although not clear since the cards aren't fleshing out the storyline, yet). Reading between the lines, it does seem like Izoni is probably a leader of the anti-Vraska faction, like Niv-Mizzet still resisting Ral in some way or another.
So it's possible some of the Bolas Planeswalkers, like Domri Rade, will still see their Guild leaders, like Borborygmos, show up, or a "resistance" like figure.
For storyline purposes though I'd highly suspect that if Kaya shows up, we'll see a Teysa card instead of the Obzedat.
Lyzolda is dead, Exava was the Rakdos maze runner, and I don't see a strong narrative pushing to have Exava return versus a new character.
Momir Vig is dead, Zegana is the last Simic Guild leader, but I don't know if the narrative is strong enough to keep Zegana versus a new Simic guild leader.
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----- "I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
Remember that Guild mechanics don't always directly synergize. Jump-start and Mentor don't have direct synergy, but there are creatures in Izzet colors that can benefit from Mentor, and there are Izzet spells that can raise a creature's power, thereby allowing it to Mentor a wider range of creatures. Plus the fact that the Izzet are more spell-dependent means the Boros can help patch up their primary weakness by providing more combat-efficient creatures, and the Boros' relative lack of card draw is offset by the Izzet being good at card draw.
Yeah, there's certainly a range between the mechanics that synergized really well versus the ones where they had to put more work in. Three out of five in Guilds of Ravnica did revolve around the graveyard though, it's not implausible that Ravnica Allegiance could have three revolve around +1/+1 counters: Simic (graft), Gruul (bloodthirst), and Rakdos (unleash).
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----- "I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
On Bloodthirst plz no, i think if the norse set turns out to be truth it would be a nice fit there(and it is a mechanic easy to appear on coresets), or as the Rakdos mechanic (but i think this is not possible, cause of the plane and it being the gruul mechanic in dic)
I would like a mechanic like the temur one that checked the power of creatures u control but counting the number of them. Like:
on a permanent
Mountain of Muscles- When ~~~ enters the batlefield up to x target creatures gets +1/+1 until the end of turn where x is the number of creatures with power 4 or more you control.
on a non permanent spell
Mountain of Muscles - Target creature gets +X/+X and trample until the end of turn. Target creature gets +X/+X and trample until the end of turn. X is equal to the number of creatures you control with power 4 or greater.
For Azorius i would like alot for a kind of clash mechanic. Like you choose a card type and reveal the top card, and do something with the outcome. Or maybe a reverse prowers (where you get things when your opponent plays things). But i really don't think they will do things that they will do things much more diferent than detain, the only thing i hope is that it is not a creature only mechanic.
For simic something like Soulbond or like Bestow, maybe something like parasite (same as bestow but not needing enchantment creatures, and maybe giving the P/T of the parasite creature, or maybe just abilities)
Orzhov could have extort that was nice in the last rtr but sadly didn't saw much competitive play. Conspire is a nice mechanic that maybe could fit in the guild but i don't it will return, i just like the mechanic.
A mechanic for Rakdos? do one that has something to do with sacrificing your own creatures if a creature didn't die in the turn.
For the other Bolas Guilds: I think we can say, that it will be Gruul and Orzhov. Kaya seems to be very likely as said several times. For Gruul I hope we will see some new guy - maybe the last chance for Ramaz to play a role in the Bolas conflict? Domri seems like it could be an easy choice, but then we would have all returning Planeswalkers (in both sets and most likely in all 3 sets as Gatewatch plus Bolas seems to be more than likely for the last one) and I can't see Domri really beeing in charge of the Gruul.
@Returning walkers- I hope we don't see any new walkers for a while, we got 8 new ones last year alone and geometry walker might be showing up as well.
@Domri ruling the Gruul- the Gruul dosn't have a guild master per say, they are a bunch of affiliation clan ruled over by clan leaders, Ruric That and Borborygmos are two know clan leaders. Borborygmos is the largest and angriest clan leader of the largest and angriest clan so for card and cycles he is considered the guild master. Bolas could simply help Domri take over his own clan and cycle wise he is just considered guild master.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Wizards first got it wrong with the Gatewatch, then went the opposite direction. But we got returning characters all the time and some of the new ones are fine. I don't dislike the Gatewatach and I absolutely like to have one of the main characters in Standard all the time, but having more than two Nissas etc. was just absurd. Now we just have Jace and Lili and Lili isn't even playable (because of not much Zombie support) - okay Jace isn't too because of power level. A nice mix would be cool. I would love to see just a Kaya reprint, because I really like her design and would like her in Standard and Modern. For the others: I would also like Ramaz as a "new" Walker much more than I do want to see another Returning character for all Ravnica sets and one new isn't that unrealistic.
I'm not talking about the gatewatch, I'm talking about that currently there are 24* planeswalkers who have only 1 planesawlker card, 8 of which have been introduced this year. I'd rather wizards slow down a bit now and develop the character they already have. And we don't need another RG planeswalker honestly, we have Domri, Arlinn, Samut who are those colors, maybe Xenagos if he is alive and possibly Sarkhan and Huatli appearing in them. Only color/ color combos outside of 3+ that need walkers are G, GW and GU
Plus Domri was shown on Street Riot meaning he is on plane already.
* With 3 dead and unlike to every get another card and 1 who fate is unknown. Also not counting Planeswalker decks planeswalkers except for the global series.
For the Gruul: Wasn't it the case, that you just became the Guildmaster, if you have beaten the old one?
No again, the Gruul aren't much of a guild and Guildmaster is a very loose term for them. Guilds of Ravnica also showed that they are playing around with it as well, since Ral is the Guildmaster in terms of card cycles, but in the story Niv is off somewhere experimenting (lead there by Bolas most likely) and Ral is just acting guild master.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
If anything I'd like to see Azorius (Simic maybe?) have cards--or their mechanic as a whole--interact with cards in exile. That's been a big beef of mine lately that there aren't enough to help you recall cards from exile that you own. Processors from BFZ don't count.
I know exile is supposed to be the zone that's the most difficult to retrieve given its hefty effect on the game but at least have something along the lines of Pull from Eternity or castable creatures like Misthollow Griffin/Torrent Elemental/Eternal Scourge a bit more frequent and accessible.
Something of that calibre would have synergy with jump-start in GRN so there's some cross-set functionality given the storyline and set structure.
That's my rant for the moment.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Orzhov+Rakdos and Simic+Azorius seem like the hardest two pairings to design mechanical overlap/synergy for. Selesnya/Golgari and Izzet/Boros had pretty light/indirect synergy in GRN, so I expect something similar here. I could see Rakdos having a suicide theme with a mechanic requiring life payment, which could be offset by lifegain in Orzhov. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Detain returned for Azorius - Simic is a creature-centric guild, and Detain gives your creatures some kind of evasion, making it easier for you to connect with your fish mutant beasts. That being said, the mechanic also works well with Orzhov, a slow and controlling guilds that wants to get to stretch out the game. Design space for Detain is pretty limited though ... maybe they could do something similar to what they did with Convoke and make some cards that care about creatures being detained.
If I understand correctly, the prerelease is January 19th; they usually give the final week with the whole spoiler so that means spoilers will start the week of New Year's (Dec. 31st).
'buster
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I'd be interested to see how Azorius could be made to work with Bolas. both of their mechanics were so boring to me so I hope they get something new, same with Orzhov
I'd like to see Bloodrush/bloodthirst or ferocious return.
I'd be interested to see how Azorius could be made to work with Bolas. both of their mechanics were so boring to me so I hope they get something new, same with Orzhov
I'd like to see Bloodrush/bloodthirst or ferocious return.
Bolas is all about the law, so long as he is the one that writes it.
Rakdos: Spectacle X( When you draw this card, you may cast if for X)
Azorius: Deliberate X (Pay X and exile this card. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this without paying its mana cost. Deliberate only as a sorcery)
Orzhov: Linger(test name only on Inst/Sorc): When you cast a spell with a higher converted mana cost, you may cast this spell from your graveyard without paying its mana cost then exile it.
Simic: Monstrosity returns
Gruul: Bloodthirst Returns
Logic:
Rakdos: Starting with Spectacle and the spoiled card, "light the stage". This seems to be a card that you'd cast for like a miracle card: When you get it. In the disucssions of Miracle, it had been a 4 or 5 on the storm scale before being demoted. The big issue they mention is limited design space in the theme. If they replace the 'This suddenly saves the day" with "We are doing this NOW" theme, then the mechanics' huge hurdle is lifted. As well as the 'feel bad' of only getting miracle at very specific, sometimes hard to track times.
Fiery FLourish 2R
Instant (C)
Spectacle R (When you draw this card, you may cast it for R)
Deal 4 damage to any creature.
Azorious: Their mechanics kinda sucked. Detain was boring but functional. However, if we have the Rakdos, we can contrast them to the Rakdos by casting spells cheaply, but slowly. Suspend was a popular but problematic mechanic, with a lot of fiddly bits, time counter manipulations, intense attention to the exile zone etc. However, a 'suspend 1' mechanic captures the slow an deliberate feel of the Azorious perfectly.
Ledev Bureaumancer 4WW
Deliberate 2W (2W,Exile this card: At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast it without paying its mana cost. Deliberate only as a sorcery
When Ledev Bureaumancer enters the battlefield, target player skips their next untap step.
2/5
Orzhov: Haunt was a bust, and Extort has a few balance problems with 2HG, EDH, and the counterintuitive W mana on a black card but not really problem. So Orzhov likes opulence, Orzhov also likes the graveyard. So what about a mechanic that cares about High CMC spells. Orzhov is rich, they should be playing big things. So my idea is that if they cast a big spell, they can get a free smaller spell as a rider.
Shifty Loophole 2W
Instant Linger-When you cast a spell with a higher converted mana cost, you may cast shifty loophole from your graveyard without paying its mana cost then exile it.
Exile target nontoken creature. At the beginning of the next end step, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.
As for the New Mechanics: Azorious and Rakdos allow you to cast High CMC spells earlier, which can help Orzhov or other CMC matters mechanic. SO the B and W mechanic interactions are there.
Now, by interesting Monstrosity in simic it gives U a mana sink to use its discounted mana on. Monstrosity is well in line with simic, its what they do.. make things bigger. Also, by adding a few +1/+1 counter using/respecting creatures in the mix, especially in green. We can interact with bloodthirst.
Lastly, Bloodthirst was popular, but it needed ways to get trigger more often. Enter the Rakdos as a companion guild. The rakdos style supports bloodthirst more than the mechanic does.
Spectacle R (When you draw this card, you may cast it for R)
That's too easy to cheat. Even Miracle, which required revealing the card, forced you to slow down your drawing so the opponent knew you were being honest.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
As an aside, they've been really hush hush about the third set. We've already passed the half-way point of December and the prerelease for RNA is in just over a month.
It makes me wonder if they'll wait for RNA to be fully revealled before we know the name of the final set in this Ravnica visit. The title is probably very telling about the direction of the story thereafter.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
More of a wish than a spec, bit I really want them to design a successful aggro/zoo planeswalker in Domri. They are all either bad or meant for midrange and control. And I understand that they easily turn out that way because of their inherent mechanics, but still, it must be possible to pull off in a decent way.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
More of a wish than a spec, bit I really want them to design a successful aggro/zoo planeswalker in Domri. They are all either bad or meant for midrange and control. And I understand that they easily turn out that way because of their inherent mechanics, but still, it must be possible to pull off in a decent way.
There was another thread that discussed static abilities on planeswalkers being confirmed as a potential thing in the future. This would be great for aggro decks. Something like:
Domri, Fire of Change 1RG
Legendary Planeswalker - Domri
Creatures you control have haste.
+1 >> Target creature gets +2/+0 and trample until end of turn.
-5 >> All creatures you control get +3/+3 and menace until end of turn.
I personally would see it more as "All creatures you control have Riot" instead of haste. That way it meshes well with existing creatures with Riot and gives you more decisions with non-riot creatures.
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MTG Junky... First packs being a starter of each 4th Edition and Ice Age. Good Grief, I've been playing since 1995? Where does the time go!
Quote from Xcric »
this is mtgs, where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello any more.
Based on Maros words on team bolas is shown by the walkers
It is so weird gatewatch got rakdos for their team and dimir as well that’s two out of three of grixis colors
Well, it does make sense lore wise, since Dimir are actually super spies mixed with selfish paranoia and Rakdos is the chaos carnival circus from hell. The only reason Selesnya was spared is because they are composed of the two things that are absolutely opposed to Bolas himself.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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What we know:
Guilds: Simic (UG), Gruul (GR), Rakdos (RB), Orzhov (BW), Azorius (WB)
Planeswalkers: Three Planeswalkers taking over three of the Guilds with some connection/loyal to Bolas. With information on Vraska's murder of Isperia, it's almost certain that Azorius is one of the Bolas Guilds, and almost certain to feature Dovin Baan. We've seen Domri Rade on flavor text, and Kaya on artwork from the novels, so those are also more plausible guesses.
The focus of Maro's DTW were the mechanics, which in Guilds of Ravnica were developed to play well with the adjacent Guilds. So we should expect the following three-color archetypes in draft to have some synergy:
Temur (Simic, Gruul)
Jund (Gruul, Rakdos)
Mardu (Rakdos, Orzhov)
Esper (Ozhov, Azorius)
Bant (Azorius, Simic)
But what of the mechanics?
In the last two visits to Ravnica, Simic has received mechanics that use +1/+1 counters. It seems safe to bet that we'll see +1/+1 counters in Simic again, and that gives us a starting point for analyzing the other Guilds.
Temur: Simic -> Gruul. In looking back at the Ravnica mechanics, Rosewater gives Bloodthirst a 3 on the Storm Scale. It's likely to make a comeback eventually and it involves +1/+1 counters. We already saw Convoke, also a 3 on the Storm Scale, come back with Guilds of Ravnica. I'm thinking a return of Bloodthirst or something similar is very likely for Ravnica Allegiance.
Jund: Gruul -> Rakdos. So if Gruul has something like Bloodthirst, Rakdos may have something that encourages attacking. Maybe something like Raid, but it was brought back in Ixalan and that's too recent. Maybe something like Dash? Unleash could also work in making creatures bigger and pushing you into attacking since they can't do anything else.
Mardu: Rakdos -> Orzhov. Haunt was bad, but Extort is on the list of mechanics that could see a return. However it doesn't synergize well with a more aggressive archetype with Rakdos, yet Orzhov needs to be able to also link up with a more controlling archetype with Azorius. Something like Morbid could strike a balance, where Rakdos is attacking and getting into combat, and Orzhov with Azorius may lean towards a Morbid midrange value approach. Alternatively if something like Dash makes an appearance, Orzhov could care about creatures entering the battlefield. This sounds too much like the "creaturefall" that Rosewater discussed with Selesnya on his podcast. So what about a Morbid that cares about creatures leaving the battlefield, regardless of if they are just blinking, going into exile, or into the graveyard?
Esper: Orzhov -> Azorius. This is another hard one, because I suspect Azorius needs to work with the Simic's +1/+1 counters. We should expect some sort of control archetype for Azorius, but it might be worth considering the other aspect of White-Blue in draft: flyers. If we have Kaladesh's Dovin Baan taking over, might we see a subtheme of thopters? Detain could make a come back, but it's hard to see how that fits with +1/+1 counters. If Orzhov cares about creatures leaving the battlefield, with a subtheme of self-sacrifice for value, what about an artifact tokens focus with Azorius, either thopters or servos (like Fabricate)? That could create fodder for a sacrifice outlet, or overlap with Simic's +1/+1. While this doesn't scream "control" like typical White-Blue mechanics, we've seen some deviation before, like when Awaken was the White-Blue mechanic in Battle for Zendikar.
We'll start to see spoilers soon enough, but for now it's just speculation.
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
Im not too crazy about evolve for simic but wouldn't be against it either. I'm not sure what else would fit.
Didn't like bloodrush. I see something like ferocious working for gruul. It synergizes with +1/+1 counters too.
As for the azorius, i hated detain. I'm with you that it has to be something with control and artifacts. Something in between fabricate and prowess would be cool.
I didn't follow the lore of the previous ravnica blocks, so would someone be kind enough to tell me what's going on with Rakdos, Lyzolda, Borborygmos, Momir, Zegana, Vorel, Teysa, the Obzedat and any other characters i might have missed? Which ones we might see in this set?
Also remember that Dovin is not an artificer per se, he's basically a safety inspector combined with a police inspector. He can quickly identify structural flaws, both physical and hierarchical. Given the philosophy of the Consulate, Dovin likely does use artifice as a weapon when necessary, but that is largely a product of serving on Kaladesh. Upon seeing that the Azorius enforce the law with magic, it's plausible that Dovin may seek to learn their brand of law magic and use it to enforce their laws. That said, I expect next time we see him, he'll have donned the Senate's signature blue and silver as opposed to the Consulate's red.
Rakdos - Will have a suicidically aggressive focus. Unleash is possible, but so too is something like Madness. The Rakdos have had a discard focus in the past, and now they have Jump-start in GRN to further support it in Standard. RNA could feature discard outlets and costs to help enable Madness. Given the carnival or circus-esque aesthetic the Rakdos have developed, their mechanic could have something to do with performance, like my Dramatic mechanic that triggers whenever the creature enters or leaves the battlefield.
Gruul - Will focus on ramp and stomp strategies. I would suggest a more aggressive take on Outlast, but Boros' Mentor mechanic already does something similar, so the Gruul may not play with +1/+1 counters this time, at least not as a dedicated mechanical theme. Bloodrush was considered too Spiky last time. The Gruul were going to get Enrage, but the Ixalan team designed it independently and were allowed to use it instead as Ixalan preceded RNA (incidentally, the same thing happened to Ixalan as Conspiracy: Take the Crown likewise preceded Ixalan and ended up taking the Monarch mechanic from Ixalan).
Another possibility is a power matters mechanic like Ferocious. That would work well with power-boosting effects while not being such an effect itself. But Ferocious leans towards noncreature spells while Gruul wants a creature-centric mechanic. I could see the Gruul getting a mechanic that cares about attacking and fighting.
Orzhov - Either cares about life as a resource or cares about creatures entering or leaving the graveyard. It could be as simple as "When this dies, create a Spirit token", thereby allowing the creature to come back from the dead while leaving a body in the graveyard to feed Undergrowth, but Hunted Witness already did something similar. Exploit could return as the Orzhov mechanic, directly supporting Undergrowth and possibly synergizing with Rakdos. Flavorwise, the guild could care about Gold, but that would likely give it too big an advantage over other Guilds, unless it was a specific type of Gold that only produced W or B. A token that produces C would be more feasible as then it's only ramp and not fixing, but that has the drawback of not playing as well with Extort.
A different idea for Orzhov could be a mechanic where your opponents each may pay 1. For each opponent who does, you create a Gold token. For each opponent who doesn't, something else happens, such as that player losing life or sacrificing creatures. The ability could also simply do one thing if the opponent pays, and another if they don't, with the Gold token being produced by a specific Orzhov card.
Simic - Will do something themed on biology. A +1/+1 counter theme is certainly possible, but it's equally possible they try a new focus. Evolve is more likely to return than Graft. They could try something akin to Heroic that rewards casting spells targeting your own creatures. One of green's specialties is pumping its own creatures, and blue has been known to use the odd creature boost as well.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Based on Guilds of Ravnica, we'll see the Bolas aligned Planeswalkers, and then one Guild leader/Guild champion, and the Guilds without a Planeswalker will have two Legendaries, one representing the Guild Leader and the other representing a number two. I think other than Isperia, all previous Guild leaders could show up again. Niv-Mizzet showed up as a card and doesn't seem to have been killed, while Vraska does appear to have gotten rid of Jarad (although not clear since the cards aren't fleshing out the storyline, yet). Reading between the lines, it does seem like Izoni is probably a leader of the anti-Vraska faction, like Niv-Mizzet still resisting Ral in some way or another.
So it's possible some of the Bolas Planeswalkers, like Domri Rade, will still see their Guild leaders, like Borborygmos, show up, or a "resistance" like figure.
For storyline purposes though I'd highly suspect that if Kaya shows up, we'll see a Teysa card instead of the Obzedat.
Lyzolda is dead, Exava was the Rakdos maze runner, and I don't see a strong narrative pushing to have Exava return versus a new character.
Momir Vig is dead, Zegana is the last Simic Guild leader, but I don't know if the narrative is strong enough to keep Zegana versus a new Simic guild leader.
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
Yeah, there's certainly a range between the mechanics that synergized really well versus the ones where they had to put more work in. Three out of five in Guilds of Ravnica did revolve around the graveyard though, it's not implausible that Ravnica Allegiance could have three revolve around +1/+1 counters: Simic (graft), Gruul (bloodthirst), and Rakdos (unleash).
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
I would like a mechanic like the temur one that checked the power of creatures u control but counting the number of them. Like:
on a permanent
Mountain of Muscles- When ~~~ enters the batlefield up to x target creatures gets +1/+1 until the end of turn where x is the number of creatures with power 4 or more you control.
on a non permanent spell
Mountain of Muscles - Target creature gets +X/+X and trample until the end of turn. Target creature gets +X/+X and trample until the end of turn. X is equal to the number of creatures you control with power 4 or greater.
For Azorius i would like alot for a kind of clash mechanic. Like you choose a card type and reveal the top card, and do something with the outcome. Or maybe a reverse prowers (where you get things when your opponent plays things). But i really don't think they will do things that they will do things much more diferent than detain, the only thing i hope is that it is not a creature only mechanic.
For simic something like Soulbond or like Bestow, maybe something like parasite (same as bestow but not needing enchantment creatures, and maybe giving the P/T of the parasite creature, or maybe just abilities)
Orzhov could have extort that was nice in the last rtr but sadly didn't saw much competitive play. Conspire is a nice mechanic that maybe could fit in the guild but i don't it will return, i just like the mechanic.
A mechanic for Rakdos? do one that has something to do with sacrificing your own creatures if a creature didn't die in the turn.
@Returning walkers- I hope we don't see any new walkers for a while, we got 8 new ones last year alone and geometry walker might be showing up as well.
@Domri ruling the Gruul- the Gruul dosn't have a guild master per say, they are a bunch of affiliation clan ruled over by clan leaders, Ruric That and Borborygmos are two know clan leaders. Borborygmos is the largest and angriest clan leader of the largest and angriest clan so for card and cycles he is considered the guild master. Bolas could simply help Domri take over his own clan and cycle wise he is just considered guild master.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm not talking about the gatewatch, I'm talking about that currently there are 24* planeswalkers who have only 1 planesawlker card, 8 of which have been introduced this year. I'd rather wizards slow down a bit now and develop the character they already have. And we don't need another RG planeswalker honestly, we have Domri, Arlinn, Samut who are those colors, maybe Xenagos if he is alive and possibly Sarkhan and Huatli appearing in them. Only color/ color combos outside of 3+ that need walkers are G, GW and GU
Plus Domri was shown on Street Riot meaning he is on plane already.
* With 3 dead and unlike to every get another card and 1 who fate is unknown. Also not counting Planeswalker decks planeswalkers except for the global series.
No again, the Gruul aren't much of a guild and Guildmaster is a very loose term for them. Guilds of Ravnica also showed that they are playing around with it as well, since Ral is the Guildmaster in terms of card cycles, but in the story Niv is off somewhere experimenting (lead there by Bolas most likely) and Ral is just acting guild master.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It is so weird gatewatch got rakdos for their team and dimir as well that’s two out of three of grixis colors
I know exile is supposed to be the zone that's the most difficult to retrieve given its hefty effect on the game but at least have something along the lines of Pull from Eternity or castable creatures like Misthollow Griffin/Torrent Elemental/Eternal Scourge a bit more frequent and accessible.
Something of that calibre would have synergy with jump-start in GRN so there's some cross-set functionality given the storyline and set structure.
That's my rant for the moment.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
When do official previews start?
If I understand correctly, the prerelease is January 19th; they usually give the final week with the whole spoiler so that means spoilers will start the week of New Year's (Dec. 31st).
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I'd like to see Bloodrush/bloodthirst or ferocious return.
Bolas is all about the law, so long as he is the one that writes it.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Rakdos: Spectacle X( When you draw this card, you may cast if for X)
Azorius: Deliberate X (Pay X and exile this card. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this without paying its mana cost. Deliberate only as a sorcery)
Orzhov: Linger(test name only on Inst/Sorc): When you cast a spell with a higher converted mana cost, you may cast this spell from your graveyard without paying its mana cost then exile it.
Simic: Monstrosity returns
Gruul: Bloodthirst Returns
Logic:
Rakdos: Starting with Spectacle and the spoiled card, "light the stage". This seems to be a card that you'd cast for like a miracle card: When you get it. In the disucssions of Miracle, it had been a 4 or 5 on the storm scale before being demoted. The big issue they mention is limited design space in the theme. If they replace the 'This suddenly saves the day" with "We are doing this NOW" theme, then the mechanics' huge hurdle is lifted. As well as the 'feel bad' of only getting miracle at very specific, sometimes hard to track times.
Fiery FLourish 2R
Instant (C)
Spectacle R (When you draw this card, you may cast it for R)
Deal 4 damage to any creature.
Azorious: Their mechanics kinda sucked. Detain was boring but functional. However, if we have the Rakdos, we can contrast them to the Rakdos by casting spells cheaply, but slowly. Suspend was a popular but problematic mechanic, with a lot of fiddly bits, time counter manipulations, intense attention to the exile zone etc. However, a 'suspend 1' mechanic captures the slow an deliberate feel of the Azorious perfectly.
Ledev Bureaumancer 4WW
Deliberate 2W (2W,Exile this card: At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast it without paying its mana cost. Deliberate only as a sorcery
When Ledev Bureaumancer enters the battlefield, target player skips their next untap step.
2/5
Orzhov: Haunt was a bust, and Extort has a few balance problems with 2HG, EDH, and the counterintuitive W mana on a black card but not really problem. So Orzhov likes opulence, Orzhov also likes the graveyard. So what about a mechanic that cares about High CMC spells. Orzhov is rich, they should be playing big things. So my idea is that if they cast a big spell, they can get a free smaller spell as a rider.
Shifty Loophole 2W
Instant
Linger-When you cast a spell with a higher converted mana cost, you may cast shifty loophole from your graveyard without paying its mana cost then exile it.
Exile target nontoken creature. At the beginning of the next end step, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.
As for the New Mechanics: Azorious and Rakdos allow you to cast High CMC spells earlier, which can help Orzhov or other CMC matters mechanic. SO the B and W mechanic interactions are there.
Now, by interesting Monstrosity in simic it gives U a mana sink to use its discounted mana on. Monstrosity is well in line with simic, its what they do.. make things bigger. Also, by adding a few +1/+1 counter using/respecting creatures in the mix, especially in green. We can interact with bloodthirst.
Lastly, Bloodthirst was popular, but it needed ways to get trigger more often. Enter the Rakdos as a companion guild. The rakdos style supports bloodthirst more than the mechanic does.
Just some ideas that may work coherently together
That's too easy to cheat. Even Miracle, which required revealing the card, forced you to slow down your drawing so the opponent knew you were being honest.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
It makes me wonder if they'll wait for RNA to be fully revealled before we know the name of the final set in this Ravnica visit. The title is probably very telling about the direction of the story thereafter.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
It’s a alternative cost if a player lost life
And also dovin is 100% confirmed a walker card for this he’s getting a planeswalker deck is why I know this
Edit orzhov mechanic is called afterlife looks like put X 1/1 spirit tokens when the creature dies X is the number on afterlife
Rakdos, the Grim Spectacle BBRR
Legendary Creature - Demon Mythic
Flying, Trample
Spectacle BBBRRR: ~this~ gains Haste until end of turn.
6/6
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
There was another thread that discussed static abilities on planeswalkers being confirmed as a potential thing in the future. This would be great for aggro decks. Something like:
Domri, Fire of Change 1RG
Legendary Planeswalker - Domri
Creatures you control have haste.
+1 >> Target creature gets +2/+0 and trample until end of turn.
-5 >> All creatures you control get +3/+3 and menace until end of turn.
<3>
Well, it does make sense lore wise, since Dimir are actually super spies mixed with selfish paranoia and Rakdos is the chaos carnival circus from hell. The only reason Selesnya was spared is because they are composed of the two things that are absolutely opposed to Bolas himself.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!