If the one set block continues a return to kamigawa is not farfetch. But I do think this will probably be more cards that could go into a kamigawa set being printed in a commander set
They could do a Magic Origins type set with fewer planes. Kamigawa featured prominently. The issue I have is that we've received such a small trickle of cards themed after Kamigawa in the last 13 years, and it's becoming frustrating to not just be told we won't be returning, but to be assured and promised we'll see it in supplemental sets... only to have a card or two every few years hold that promise. Ramp it up.
They could do a Magic Origins type set with fewer planes. Kamigawa featured prominently. The issue I have is that we've received such a small trickle of cards themed after Kamigawa in the last 13 years, and it's becoming frustrating to not just be told we won't be returning, but to be assured and promised we'll see it in supplemental sets... only to have a card or two every few years hold that promise. Ramp it up.
Not to mention being told how we don't like Kamigawa and will not enjoy a return set.
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Protection from reason (Decadent_Creed can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by reason.)
I think the point is more when they did it the first time it was more Classically inspired but now if they did it to justify it to the higher ups who care about money it have to be far more Anime/Manga influenced.
As MaRo has said multiple times, Kamigawa has everything going against it. It does not test high enough in surveys, both in the past and in the present. The block was also unpopular mechanically and thematically. The three sets also did not sell well. That is a mountain of problems pushing against a Return to Kamigawa.
The way you skirt that is to do something small. Like making one of the four Commander Decks Kamigawa-themed. You sate the desire to see new Kamigawa content for the tiny - but vocal - minority of people who desperately want it, while at the same time reintroducing the setting to a modern audience, while also testing the waters to see if Kamigawa can be popular/successful.
Seems smart on WotC's part. Hopefully the Kamigawa Hipsters put their money where their mouths are and actually support a Kamigawa product... But I kind of doubt it. One of the big reasons Kamigawa attracts so many hipsters is precisely because it is so unpopular and undervalued. The minute it becomes popular or mainstream to like Kamigawa again, those fair-weather hipsters will abadon ship, fleeing the oncoming storm of "filthy casuals". The "I liked Kamigawa before it was cool" motto will reign supreme until the self loathing misanthropes find another plane to call home (most likely Lorwyn/Shadowmore).
At this point I think WotC has gotten the message pretty clear that while doing a full Return to Kamigawa is not and never will be economically viable, there's a hardcore-dedicated fanbase among the enfranchised crowd. I'd expect we continue to get thrown bones like this in supplemental sets on the regular, but don't expect more than that.
poor Choryu
Choyru was a rat-bastard and deserved everything he got coming to him, sorry not sorry.
I still think a return for one set should be done. The universe rewards risk. And WOTC shouldn't be afraid to take one as minor as a single set on a plane like Kamigawa. But I don't mind getting Kamigawa themed cards in supplemental sets either, so long as we get all the characters from the novels on cards. Maybe some new Soratami and Ninjas while we're at it. Of all the places to implement Kamigawa themed cards and past characters, Commander products are definitely the place to do it. Kamigawa is a hit in Commander and with its Vorthos crowd, like myself.
Killing Kobo was admittedly a terrible thing. But he wasn't deserving of such a horrible fate.
Once they get the mechanics of the one block set down, I am sure they will feel more adventurous. Maybe not Kamigawa adventurous but adventurous all the same.
Seems smart on WotC's part. Hopefully the Kamigawa Hipsters put their money where their mouths are and actually support a Kamigawa product... But I kind of doubt it. One of the big reasons Kamigawa attracts so many hipsters is precisely because it is so unpopular and undervalued. The minute it becomes popular or mainstream to like Kamigawa again, those fair-weather hipsters will abadon ship, fleeing the oncoming storm of "filthy casuals". The "I liked Kamigawa before it was cool" motto will reign supreme until the self loathing misanthropes find another plane to call home (most likely Lorwyn/Shadowmore).
Or...maybe some people actually liked it?
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Protection from reason (Decadent_Creed can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by reason.)
It was a lovely idea, just most cards with it were not well made or over-costed. Able to add function(s) to a spell without spending additional cards, and allow effects to take on different colors, had a lot of potential. Killed many pro-red creatures by splicing Glacial Ray onto a non-red spell. In current standard, I could see splice spells greatly cheapened.
Kamigawa was a great block, though there were indeed lack of optimism towards a Japanese themed set. Storying involving Umezawa and Bolas was merely a small portion of Legend set, not enough to predict Kamigawa's popularity or the lack of. I think the greatest downfall of Kamigawa was because it came after the powerful Mirrodin block, weakened to balance the standard, only to be succeeded by the all-popular Ravnica block which again rose in power.
Regarding Tamiyo, I just hope they give her a different hairstyle some time. I know chances are slim since they don't often change minor character details, but although I love the Soratami concept-wise and most of their Kamigawa card arts, ever since her first card, there's just something that has been bugging me about Tamiyos weird hair horns that don't even look like they're made out of hair 70% of the time.
The All-Consuming Oni would be a cool candidate for a Rakdos commander. After seeing what they made out of O-Kagachi, I think they'd better not try and do the Sisters.
They could do a Magic Origins type set with fewer planes. Kamigawa featured prominently. The issue I have is that we've received such a small trickle of cards themed after Kamigawa in the last 13 years, and it's becoming frustrating to not just be told we won't be returning, but to be assured and promised we'll see it in supplemental sets... only to have a card or two every few years hold that promise. Ramp it up.
Not to mention being told how we don't like Kamigawa and will not enjoy a return set.
13+ year old "Market Research" > Our minds, wallets, and reality
Seems smart on WotC's part. Hopefully the Kamigawa Hipsters put their money where their mouths are and actually support a Kamigawa product... But I kind of doubt it. One of the big reasons Kamigawa attracts so many hipsters is precisely because it is so unpopular and undervalued. The minute it becomes popular or mainstream to like Kamigawa again, those fair-weather hipsters will abadon ship, fleeing the oncoming storm of "filthy casuals". The "I liked Kamigawa before it was cool" motto will reign supreme until the self loathing misanthropes find another plane to call home (most likely Lorwyn/Shadowmore).
Or...maybe some people actually liked it?
Some people do. I like it but I have a feeling those who are constantly begging for it to return are just fair-weather hipsters.
They could do a Magic Origins type set with fewer planes. Kamigawa featured prominently. The issue I have is that we've received such a small trickle of cards themed after Kamigawa in the last 13 years, and it's becoming frustrating to not just be told we won't be returning, but to be assured and promised we'll see it in supplemental sets... only to have a card or two every few years hold that promise. Ramp it up.
Not to mention being told how we don't like Kamigawa and will not enjoy a return set.
13+ year old "Market Research" > Our minds, wallets, and reality
I would prefer a new take on Japan, Kamigawa didn't scratch any particular itches for me. Even the coolest parts of the set, the Ninja and Samurai, underdelivered. I'll take a new Japan-inspired world, thanks.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
It was a lovely idea, just most cards with it were not well made or over-costed. Able to add function(s) to a spell without spending additional cards, and allow effects to take on different colors, had a lot of potential. Killed many pro-red creatures by splicing Glacial Ray onto a non-red spell. In current standard, I could see splice spells greatly cheapened.
Kamigawa was a great block, though there were indeed lack of optimism towards a Japanese themed set. Storying involving Umezawa and Bolas was merely a small portion of Legend set, not enough to predict Kamigawa's popularity or the lack of. I think the greatest downfall of Kamigawa was because it came after the powerful Mirrodin block, weakened to balance the standard, only to be succeeded by the all-popular Ravnica block which again rose in power.
No, no it was not a great block, most of the mechanics sucked, the tribal themes were overdone, and most of the cards were horribly overcosted for their effects compared with the high power Mirrodin and even Ravnica blocks. Additionally, the legendary theme was poorly handled and most of the legends were mediocre or forgettable, if not outright bad. It is only thanks to the popularity of the Commander format that it has gotten any kind of redemption outside of a tiny handful of cards. Had they used better and non-parasitic mechanics, reduced the number of legendary cards, added more cards that gave you a small additional reward if you had a legendary creature/permanent in play, replaced about 10% of the creatures with ones that weren't part of the tribes, and subtracted one to two generic mana from a a number of the common and uncommon spells to make them viable in the overpowered standard at the time, it might have been more of a success. But seriously, other than 1 card, ever creature in the set was either legendary or belonged to one of the tribes, and that card was a reprint with a new name, and in the last set.
That said, the flavor of Kamigawa was a home run for me, and the few mechanics that were good, were really friggin' good (Ninjutsu and Bushido). And each time we get some new piece of flavor from Kamigawa on new cards I get a silly little smile on my face.
As for Kamigawa in a future commander product as a theme. I can see it, and it doesn't need to be all Kamigawa cards, there are several cards that would make sense for such a deck, either with new art, or just because they are neutral enough both in art and name. Wall of Blossoms for example would fit into such a deck just fine, even without new art.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
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|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Not to mention being told how we don't like Kamigawa and will not enjoy a return set.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
The way you skirt that is to do something small. Like making one of the four Commander Decks Kamigawa-themed. You sate the desire to see new Kamigawa content for the tiny - but vocal - minority of people who desperately want it, while at the same time reintroducing the setting to a modern audience, while also testing the waters to see if Kamigawa can be popular/successful.
Seems smart on WotC's part. Hopefully the Kamigawa Hipsters put their money where their mouths are and actually support a Kamigawa product... But I kind of doubt it. One of the big reasons Kamigawa attracts so many hipsters is precisely because it is so unpopular and undervalued. The minute it becomes popular or mainstream to like Kamigawa again, those fair-weather hipsters will abadon ship, fleeing the oncoming storm of "filthy casuals". The "I liked Kamigawa before it was cool" motto will reign supreme until the self loathing misanthropes find another plane to call home (most likely Lorwyn/Shadowmore).
Once they get the mechanics of the one block set down, I am sure they will feel more adventurous. Maybe not Kamigawa adventurous but adventurous all the same.
Or...maybe some people actually liked it?
It was a lovely idea, just most cards with it were not well made or over-costed. Able to add function(s) to a spell without spending additional cards, and allow effects to take on different colors, had a lot of potential. Killed many pro-red creatures by splicing Glacial Ray onto a non-red spell. In current standard, I could see splice spells greatly cheapened.
Kamigawa was a great block, though there were indeed lack of optimism towards a Japanese themed set. Storying involving Umezawa and Bolas was merely a small portion of Legend set, not enough to predict Kamigawa's popularity or the lack of. I think the greatest downfall of Kamigawa was because it came after the powerful Mirrodin block, weakened to balance the standard, only to be succeeded by the all-popular Ravnica block which again rose in power.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
The All-Consuming Oni would be a cool candidate for a Rakdos commander. After seeing what they made out of O-Kagachi, I think they'd better not try and do the Sisters.
I'll raise you one better, "Kamigawa can only be featured in supplemental products, except lol not really, try not at all, but we'll pretend together."
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Some people do. I like it but I have a feeling those who are constantly begging for it to return are just fair-weather hipsters.
They regularly survey people. The question about planes comes up. It continues to be a setting that people do not enjoy.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
No, no it was not a great block, most of the mechanics sucked, the tribal themes were overdone, and most of the cards were horribly overcosted for their effects compared with the high power Mirrodin and even Ravnica blocks. Additionally, the legendary theme was poorly handled and most of the legends were mediocre or forgettable, if not outright bad. It is only thanks to the popularity of the Commander format that it has gotten any kind of redemption outside of a tiny handful of cards. Had they used better and non-parasitic mechanics, reduced the number of legendary cards, added more cards that gave you a small additional reward if you had a legendary creature/permanent in play, replaced about 10% of the creatures with ones that weren't part of the tribes, and subtracted one to two generic mana from a a number of the common and uncommon spells to make them viable in the overpowered standard at the time, it might have been more of a success. But seriously, other than 1 card, ever creature in the set was either legendary or belonged to one of the tribes, and that card was a reprint with a new name, and in the last set.
That said, the flavor of Kamigawa was a home run for me, and the few mechanics that were good, were really friggin' good (Ninjutsu and Bushido). And each time we get some new piece of flavor from Kamigawa on new cards I get a silly little smile on my face.
As for Kamigawa in a future commander product as a theme. I can see it, and it doesn't need to be all Kamigawa cards, there are several cards that would make sense for such a deck, either with new art, or just because they are neutral enough both in art and name. Wall of Blossoms for example would fit into such a deck just fine, even without new art.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.